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Message no. 1
From: sedahdro@*****.com (Victor Rodriguez, Jr)
Subject: Deckers and Beginning programs
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 20:29 EST
As I was reading the rules on Deckers writing their own programs in VR2, a
thought came to my head. Why would a player spend his resource money on
buying programs during character generation, when he could write his own
programs for a hell of lot less (the cost of a computer, programming kit or
shop)? Is there a rule that says that a player cannot have his decker write
the programs himself, instead of buying them, during the character
generation process? If so, where?
---Sedah Drol
--
ATTN: Due to lack of interest, tomorrow has been canceled.
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O--- M-- V
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 2
From: James Meiers <polbdm@****.arc.unm.edu>
Subject: Re: Deckers and Beginning programs
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 18:47:54 -0700 (MST)
On Thu, 30 Nov 1995 sedahdro@*****.com wrote:

> As I was reading the rules on Deckers writing their own programs in VR2, a
> thought came to my head. Why would a player spend his resource money on
> buying programs during character generation, when he could write his own
> programs for a hell of lot less (the cost of a computer, programming kit or
> shop)? Is there a rule that says that a player cannot have his decker write
> the programs himself, instead of buying them, during the character
> generation process? If so, where?
> ---Sedah Drol
What would they do for time though? Would you have their character make
the programs during the campaign and not involve them, or would you make
them pay nuyen for the time they would have to spend on making the
programs during their "past". That is what I would do, but that is me.
> --
> ATTN: Due to lack of interest, tomorrow has been canceled.
Darn, I was looking forward to tomorrow...
> GC3.1
> GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O---
M-- V
> PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
>
>
Message no. 3
From: gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu (S.F. Eley)
Subject: Re: Deckers and Beginning Programs
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 23:47:20 -2900 (EST)
Sedah Drol writes:

> As I was reading the rules on Deckers writing their own programs in VR2, a
> thought came to my head. Why would a player spend his resource money on
> buying programs during character generation, when he could write his own
> programs for a hell of lot less (the cost of a computer, programming kit or
> shop)? Is there a rule that says that a player cannot have his decker write
> the programs himself, instead of buying them, during the character
> generation process? If so, where?

Yeah, actually, that's another thing they forgot to fix in VR2. >8->

I learned early on (after my campaign's first decker PC) that allowing new
characters to build their own cyberdecks and programs before the game starts
is a VERY bad idea. They'll maximize their decks for practically no money,
and assume they had all the time in the world. Totally unbalanced.

The only fix that seemed to work for me is to require new deckers to buy
stuff off-the-shelf. They can say they built it if they want; in which case
the Resources expenditure reflects the time as well as the money. After the
campaign starts they can spend time and money on building new chips and
programs. This forces them to start out small (or at best moderate) and get
big later, esp. if you don't let them have Resources at Priority A.


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "I'll make the command easy to
My opinions are my opinions. | remember, like CTRL-ALT-F4-DEL."
Please don't blame anyone else. | - Dilbert (by Scott Adams)
Message no. 4
From: James Meiers <polbdm@****.arc.unm.edu>
Subject: Re: Deckers and Beginning Programs
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 23:12:18 -0700 (MST)
On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, S.F. Eley wrote:

> Sedah Drol writes:
>
> > As I was reading the rules on Deckers writing their own programs in VR2, a
> > thought came to my head. Why would a player spend his resource money on
> > buying programs during character generation, when he could write his own
> > programs for a hell of lot less (the cost of a computer, programming kit or
> > shop)? Is there a rule that says that a player cannot have his decker write
> > the programs himself, instead of buying them, during the character
> > generation process? If so, where?
>
> Yeah, actually, that's another thing they forgot to fix in VR2. >8->
>
> I learned early on (after my campaign's first decker PC) that allowing new
> characters to build their own cyberdecks and programs before the game starts
> is a VERY bad idea. They'll maximize their decks for practically no money,
> and assume they had all the time in the world. Totally unbalanced.
That story sounds familiar. Did anyone else have a decker who "created" a
deck that could run over a (now obsolete) Fairlight Excaliber at startup.
>
> The only fix that seemed to work for me is to require new deckers to buy
> stuff off-the-shelf. They can say they built it if they want; in which case
> the Resources expenditure reflects the time as well as the money. After the
> campaign starts they can spend time and money on building new chips and
> programs. This forces them to start out small (or at best moderate) and get
> big later, esp. if you don't let them have Resources at Priority A.
That is probably why most GMs don't allow deckers. Too greedy and (until
now) the system was hard to manage. Sounds familiar in VR 2.0. The stats
are the equivalent of a Fuchi Cyber-7(or whatever. It doesn't matter now.)
and it is supposed to be built by someone else and costs roughly the same
as a Fuchi-whatever, but was supposedly built by the decker or a
deckmeister.
>
> Blessings,
>
> _TNX._
>
> --
> Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
> http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "I'll make the command easy to
> My opinions are my opinions. | remember, like CTRL-ALT-F4-DEL."
> Please don't blame anyone else. | - Dilbert (by Scott Adams)
>
Message no. 5
From: "Damion Milliken" <adm82@***.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Deckers and Beginning programs
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 17:30:01 +1100 (EST)
Victor Rodriguez, Jr writes:

> As I was reading the rules on Deckers writing their own programs in VR2, a
> thought came to my head. Why would a player spend his resource money on
> buying programs during character generation, when he could write his own
> programs for a hell of lot less (the cost of a computer, programming kit or
> shop)? Is there a rule that says that a player cannot have his decker write
> the programs himself, instead of buying them, during the character
> generation process? If so, where?

Well, indirectly there is, of a sort. Remember that Resources nuyen (I
always want to call it Tech - shows my age) is not just hard cash. It
represents time and effort on the part of the character, as well as money.
Note that contacts are "bought" with Resources nuyen, but I would imagine
that "purchasing" contacts later on during the game would be somewhat
difficult - Resources isn't just "equipment to the value of". So I would
say that one could assume that the decker had made his own programs, but to
represent the time and effort he put into it, one would deduct an amount of
nuyen from his resources that was, amazingly enough, equal to the monetary
value of the programs he wrote.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
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Message no. 6
From: Gallas William <gallas@**.ec-lyon.fr>
Subject: Re: Deckers and Beginning programs
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 8:36:15 MET
> Sedah Drol:
>
> As I was reading the rules on Deckers writing their own programs in VR2, a
> thought came to my head. Why would a player spend his resource money on
> buying programs during character generation, when he could write his own
> programs for a hell of lot less (the cost of a computer, programming kit or
> shop)? Is there a rule that says that a player cannot have his decker write
> the programs himself, instead of buying them, during the character
> generation process? If so, where?

There is nothing in the rules but I use this rule:
The decker (or wathever) has got a number of weeks (or days if you want) equal
to the spell points. They have to do all the tests to see how long each work is
taking.

- Cobra.

_______
/ \
| _ )
\_/ \ /
/ ) /
/| / /
/ /
/ /
/ /
/ /
/ /
/ / __
/ /______/ )
(___________/\|
Message no. 7
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Deckers and Beginning programs
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 16:24:26 +0100
Victor Rodriguez, Jr said on30 Nov 95...

> Is there a rule that says that a player cannot have his decker write
> the programs himself, instead of buying them, during the character
> generation process? If so, where?

There's no such thing, except for the otaku being given a certain number
of "programming days" (VR2 page 145). You could do something like this for
standard deckers, or you could use a different way. Someone I know told me
he once played a decker who'd written all his programs before starting the
game, plus built his deck in that time, but he and his GM had agreed that
he had to pay Lifestyle costs for the entire time spent building and
programming. I think that would be one of the best options (it helps the
decker spend a few tens of thousands of nuyen :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 8
From: Justin Thomas <Justin.C.Thomas-1@**.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Deckers and Beginning programs
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 12:05:30 -0600
At 08:27 PM 11/30/95 -0500, you wrote:
>As I was reading the rules on Deckers writing their own programs in VR2, a
>thought came to my head. Why would a player spend his resource money on
>buying programs during character generation, when he could write his own
>programs for a hell of lot less (the cost of a computer, programming kit or
>shop)? Is there a rule that says that a player cannot have his decker write
>the programs himself, instead of buying them, during the character
>generation process? If so, where?


well, I haven't read the whole vr2 book yet but in the old one programing
your own programs took quite a while... or you could program on the fly as
they called it and program an attack (or whatever) on a one time shot sort
of thing...
******************************
Justin Thomas
"Farr"
Email:
thom0767@****.tc.umn.edu
or if that doesn't work
Justin.C.Thomas-1@**.umn.edu
or
justin.thomas@*********.mn.org
Message no. 9
From: Justin Thomas <Justin.C.Thomas-1@**.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Deckers and Beginning programs
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 13:34:14 -0600
At 10:31 AM 12/1/95 -0500, you wrote:
>Victor Rodriguez, Jr said on30 Nov 95...
>
>> Is there a rule that says that a player cannot have his decker write
>> the programs himself, instead of buying them, during the character
>> generation process? If so, where?
>
>There's no such thing, except for the otaku being given a certain number
>of "programming days" (VR2 page 145). You could do something like this for
>standard deckers, or you could use a different way. Someone I know told me
>he once played a decker who'd written all his programs before starting the
>game, plus built his deck in that time, but he and his GM had agreed that
>he had to pay Lifestyle costs for the entire time spent building and
>programming. I think that would be one of the best options (it helps the
>decker spend a few tens of thousands of nuyen :)

hey thats a good idea... of course you could also make him pay reasources
for time instead... may like one reasource point for each hour needed or
minute needed...
******************************
Justin Thomas
"Farr"
Email:
thom0767@****.tc.umn.edu
or if that doesn't work
Justin.C.Thomas-1@**.umn.edu
or
justin.thomas@*********.mn.org

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