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Message no. 1
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Defaulting (was Summer Time)
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:56:26 -0600
Ereskanti wrote:
/
/ yes folks, I think it's finally official. Either that, or the email programs
/ of the world have come to a grinding halt on many fronts. The list traffic
/ has dropped back down to levels similar to "Holiday" and "Summer"
that I have
/ seen before...

Yep. Kinda nice. It's like a cool summer breeze :)

/ So, what nice little topics should we come up for the hard core members???

Okay :)

Who's had this happen? You're GMing and the PCs want to do something
that nobody has the skill for. And it's a high TN. Someone defaults
and pumps in as much dice pool as they can, spends Karma to re-roll,
and ends up with a gazzilion successes. Bleurg :(

I've seen house rules that address the use of dice pools and/or karma
to address the issue. But these change the entire structure of the
game. I've also seen some funky ideas for changing the default
rules, but I haven't liked any of them. Well, recently I had a new
(I think :) idea.

When a character defaults increase the TN by +1 for every dot the
character has to go through on the skill web.

And, divide the number of successes rolled by the number of dots
between the default skill/attribute and the required skill/attribute,
plus 1 (round down). Actual Successes = Rolled Successes/(dots +
1).

If a character defaults and has to go through one dot on the skill
web the TN has a +1 modifier, and the number of successes rolled will
be divided by 2. If he had to go through 3 dots there would be a +3
modifier and the number of rolled successes would be divided by 4.

Janet picks up Karl's HMG and fires it at the AZ security guards (who
just dropped Karl with a withering hail of lead). Janet doesn't
have the Heavy Weapons skill. However, she can default from a skill
2 dots away on the skill web. She has a +2 modifier to her target
number. Janet is a PC and uses combat pool and karma pool to get 5
successes. Because she defaulted through 2 dots her successes are
divided by 3 (2 + 1), resulting in 1 actual success (5 / 3 = 1.6,
which rounds down to 1).

-David
--
"Never, ever, cut a deal with a dragon.
For you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 2
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Defaulting (was Summer Time)
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:02:39 -0400
David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG> said:
> ...
> Who's had this happen? You're GMing and the PCs want to do something
> that nobody has the skill for. And it's a high TN. Someone defaults
> and pumps in as much dice pool as they can, spends Karma to re-roll,
> and ends up with a gazzilion successes. Bleurg :(

IIRC, you can't use dice pools unless you have the right skill. The
reasoning is probably related to the standard rule about only being
able to use as many pool dice as you have skill. If your real skill
is 0, you can use 0 dice from an appropriate pool. The same thing
may apply to Karma dice, since you can also only add as many karma
dice as you have skill.

I think the standard rules also mention that defaulting doesn't give
you the same results as using the actual skill. For example, someone
could theoretically install cyberware by defaulting from INT. Most
GMs would laugh if their players ever tried this. Adjust the results
as you see fit.

--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
Message no. 3
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Defaulting (was Summer Time)
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:06:10 EDT
In a message dated 5/19/98 8:56:12 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG writes:

> When a character defaults increase the TN by +1 for every dot the
> character has to go through on the skill web.
>
> And, divide the number of successes rolled by the number of dots
> between the default skill/attribute and the required skill/attribute,
> plus 1 (round down). Actual Successes = Rolled Successes/(dots +
> 1).
>
> If a character defaults and has to go through one dot on the skill
> web the TN has a +1 modifier, and the number of successes rolled will
> be divided by 2. If he had to go through 3 dots there would be a +3
> modifier and the number of rolled successes would be divided by 4.
>
Actually guy, the "Defaulting through the Web" already has penalties. +2 per
dot already, -AND- 1 die removed from the "defaulting skill".
Message no. 4
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Defaulting (was Summer Time)
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:16:08 -0600
Ereskanti wrote:
/
/ In a message dated 5/19/98 8:56:12 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
/ dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG writes:
/
/ > When a character defaults increase the TN by +1 for every dot the
/ > character has to go through on the skill web.
/ >
/ > And, divide the number of successes rolled by the number of dots
/ > between the default skill/attribute and the required skill/attribute,
/ > plus 1 (round down). Actual Successes = Rolled Successes/(dots +
/ > 1).
/ >
/ > If a character defaults and has to go through one dot on the skill
/ > web the TN has a +1 modifier, and the number of successes rolled will
/ > be divided by 2. If he had to go through 3 dots there would be a +3
/ > modifier and the number of rolled successes would be divided by 4.
/
/ Actually guy, the "Defaulting through the Web" already has penalties. +2 per
/ dot already, -AND- 1 die removed from the "defaulting skill".

Were do you get the "1 die removed" from? Is that in the SRC? And I
changed it from a +2 to a +1 on purpose. Having and +2 *and* a ratio
modifier would be a bit much, IMHO.

-David
--
"Never, ever, cut a deal with a dragon.
For you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 5
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Defaulting (was Summer Time)
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:19:23 -0600
Brian Moore wrote:
/
/ David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG> said:
/ > ...
/ > Who's had this happen? You're GMing and the PCs want to do something
/ > that nobody has the skill for. And it's a high TN. Someone defaults
/ > and pumps in as much dice pool as they can, spends Karma to re-roll,
/ > and ends up with a gazzilion successes. Bleurg :(
/
/ IIRC, you can't use dice pools unless you have the right skill. The
/ reasoning is probably related to the standard rule about only being
/ able to use as many pool dice as you have skill. If your real skill
/ is 0, you can use 0 dice from an appropriate pool.

<sound of David banging his head against a wall> #@$$%!!!

Well. I'm feel rather sheeeepish. And a very stupid. <sigh> Oh
well, only been doing it wrong since SRII was published. Gaa.

-David
--
"Never, ever, cut a deal with a dragon.
For you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 6
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Defaulting (was Summer Time)
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:11:35 EDT
In a message dated 5/19/98 12:44:01 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG writes:

> / Actually guy, the "Defaulting through the Web" already has penalties. +2
> per
> / dot already, -AND- 1 die removed from the "defaulting skill".
>
> Were do you get the "1 die removed" from? Is that in the SRC? And I
> changed it from a +2 to a +1 on purpose. Having and +2 *and* a ratio
> modifier would be a bit much, IMHO.
>
I don't recall off hand, yeah, it's probably from the Companion. We use it in
order to keep things in our games a bit balanced (cough)

-K
Message no. 7
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Defaulting (was Summer Time)
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:27:44 -0600
Ereskanti wrote:
/
/ In a message dated 5/19/98 12:44:01 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
/ dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG writes:
/
/ > / Actually guy, the "Defaulting through the Web" already has penalties.
+2
/ > per
/ > / dot already, -AND- 1 die removed from the "defaulting skill".
/ >
/ > Were do you get the "1 die removed" from? Is that in the SRC? And I
/ > changed it from a +2 to a +1 on purpose. Having and +2 *and* a ratio
/ > modifier would be a bit much, IMHO.
/ >
/ I don't recall off hand, yeah, it's probably from the Companion. We use it in
/ order to keep things in our games a bit balanced (cough)

But, but, I had ratios and everything in mine ;-)

Seriously, sounds good to me. And now that I understand that pool
dice can't be used when defaulting things are going to run a lot
smoother in my game. Gah, I still can't believe that I didn't get
that.

-David
--
"Never, ever, cut a deal with a dragon.
For you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 8
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Defaulting (was Summer Time)
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 01:15:10 EDT
In a message dated 98-05-19 16:12:42 EDT, you write:

<< > Were do you get the "1 die removed" from? Is that in the SRC?
And I
> changed it from a +2 to a +1 on purpose. Having and +2 *and* a ratio
> modifier would be a bit much, IMHO.
>
I don't recall off hand, yeah, it's probably from the Companion. We use it
in
order to keep things in our games a bit balanced (cough) >>

IIRC, that was a rule that applied to adept bonus dice, not all skills.

Nexx
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Defaulting (was Summer Time)
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:49:13 +0100
Ereskanti said on 11:06/19 May 98...

> Actually guy, the "Defaulting through the Web" already has penalties. +2
per
> dot already

Yes.

> -AND- 1 die removed from the "defaulting skill".

Oh? Only get the +2 per dot applies to normal skills. Physical adept
Increased Ability dice are removed at one for each dot passed, but not
normal skill dice.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
En ik zal het heen twee keer zehhen.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 10
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Defaulting (was Summer Time)
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:37:05 EDT
In a message dated 5/20/98 4:03:52 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

> > -AND- 1 die removed from the "defaulting skill".
>
> Oh? Only get the +2 per dot applies to normal skills. Physical adept
> Increased Ability dice are removed at one for each dot passed, but not
> normal skill dice.
>
Oh well, I knew I couldn't be completely right anymore. As it stands though,
this rule helps out with skill defaulting as well, reduces other potential
hazards as you go.

-K

Further Reading

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