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Message no. 1
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Define "munchkin"
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 02:59:19 -0500
I would like to have a clear definition of a "munchkin". Is munchkin is
defined by a players behavior or by his stats, skills, and gear? I've always
found that Shadowrun generally balances things pretty well. If you are very
good at one thing, you are not very good at others. The guy with 4 skills at
6 will be VERY good in his areas but will have trouble when he needs one he
doesnt have. The guy with 8 skills at 3 will be less likely to be caught in
a situation where he doesnt have the relevant skill. The system should keep
things balanced, so I dont see how you can call the guy with high skill
levels a "munchkin".
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:39:43 +0100
John Dukes said on 2:59/17 Jul 97...

> I would like to have a clear definition of a "munchkin". Is munchkin is
> defined by a players behavior or by his stats, skills, and gear?

Both, but mostly by the player. Munchkins want to make as powerful a
character as possible, and don't mind bending or breaking rules to do it.
There's a distinct difference with a powergamer, who also wants to create
a powerful character, but powergamers tend to stay within the rules.

For example, a character wearing milspec armor and carrying a gyro-mounted
Vanquisher minigun into combat with two gangers would probably be a
powergamer.
A character with powered milspec armor that adds 10 to his Quickness and
+5D6 to his Reaction, which has been magic-proofed so no magic can affect
him, and who is firing special armor-piercing EX explosive rounds with an
orichalcum jacket and a FAB core from the Vanquisher is probably a
munchkin.

> I've always found that Shadowrun generally balances things pretty well.
> If you are very good at one thing, you are not very good at others. The
> guy with 4 skills at 6 will be VERY good in his areas but will have
> trouble when he needs one he doesnt have. The guy with 8 skills at 3
> will be less likely to be caught in a situation where he doesnt have the
> relevant skill. The system should keep things balanced, so I dont see
> how you can call the guy with high skill levels a "munchkin".

It isn't. IMnsHO you can't claim anyone to be a munchkin unless you know
more about them. If all you know about someone's character is that he or
she has a Firearms skill of 6 and a Quickness of 7, then calling that
character a munchkin is drawing a premature conclusion. Munchkins tend to
lack background, or have a background like "His whole family got killed by
Humanis members so now he wants revenge."

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 3
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:11:17 EST
> that adds 10 to his Quickness and
> +5D6 to his Reaction, which has been magic-proofed so no magic can affect
> him, and who is firing special armor-piercing EX explosive rounds
> with an orichalcum jacket and a FAB core from the Vanquisher is
> probably a munchkin.

Probably?

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 4
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:14:38 EDT
A munchkin is the guy who attempts to win the RPG. His sole goal in the
characters he/she plays is to have the biggest, nastiest most powerful
character that can possibly be created, whether it fits within the game
or not. This is the kind of person who would favor toxic vampiric
were-dragon Insect shaman/ED Adepts as starting characters, and wouldn't
see the problem with it:) Rules are meant to be broken or ignored and the
more rules the munchy can ignore because they don't apply to his
character (in his mind, anyway), the happier he'll be. The munchy is the
guy who automatically assumes something without asking the GM, simply
because 'it's in the book', but he'll do that only so long as it is
advantageous for his character. He'll automatically try and pass off
over-powerful gear from the net (like a Stonewall MBT I recall seeing
stats for at one point) as being stuff he can get his munchy little paws
on and is never happier than when his character (which has as little
background as possible*) is blowing stuff up, killing people, expending
mass quantities of ammunition/explosives/etc on random targets, etc. He
takes only items and skills which will be useful (no social skills, no
knowledge skills he can't use, etc), and the more damage he can inflict
with them, the more likely he is to take them (Firearms and Armed Combat
are a must for him, Gunnery is also a favorite).

Note that this doesn't mean that every character with Firearms, Armed
Combat and Gunnery are munchkins, or even necessarily power gamers. It's
the ones that have those, plus every other possible skill that can
inflict mass destruction (like 'Nuclear Bomb B/R" :) at 6, all attributes
at 6, and downright abuses the rules, ignores the GM's rulings, and
mostly does his damndest to create a character that, legal or otherwise,
is impossible to kill while being an absolute combat monster. Troll
samurai are favorites, but a munchkin character can be any archetype.

*Munchkin backgrounds tend to exist of as little as possible, often
contradicting itself. Logic is not the munchkin's strong point.
"Where was your character born?"
"Uhh...he grew up in a Middle Class neighborhood."
"Who are/were his family?"
"They're all dead, and nobody knows who they are."

Other favorite answers include that he runs the shadows for the thrill,
hobbies include blowing things up and killing people, because said
character is also a psychopath. <sigh>

The easiest way to deal with a munchkin is to stop gaming with them. It's
better to try to reform them, but this takes longer and is ultimately
harder. And it only gets worse when a reforming munchy winds up playing a
game or three under a munchy GM sometime when you're gone, because they
have a bad tendency to regress (note: _reforming_ munch, not a reformed
one:) And if you have players who cannot be reformed influencing ones
that can, it's best to kick out the one that won't reform, because it'll
be really difficult ot reform a bunch of munchkins if there's an
unreformable munchkin raping the rules all around them.

Sorry for the essay, didn't mean to get so far off:)


--
-Canthros, the one and only (?) shapeshifter-mage, and munchkin on the
mend:)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
Message no. 5
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:51:50 -0500
At 17-Jul-97 wrote John Dukes:

>I would like to have a clear definition of a "munchkin". Is munchkin is
>defined by a players behavior or by his stats, skills, and gear? I've always
>found that Shadowrun generally balances things pretty well. If you are very
>good at one thing, you are not very good at others. The guy with 4 skills at
>6 will be VERY good in his areas but will have trouble when he needs one he
>doesnt have. The guy with 8 skills at 3 will be less likely to be caught in
>a situation where he doesnt have the relevant skill. The system should keep
>things balanced, so I dont see how you can call the guy with high skill
>levels a "munchkin".

I would define a munchkin as someone who wants the most powerfull
being in the universe under his controll.
He wants all at an instand and for free, if he can`t get it he will cheat to
get it.
The other players and the gm are just tools for him to live out his
profile neurosis.
A munchkin is IMHO always defined by his behavior or all characters
above a certain karmalevel are munchis and not advanged characters.
As examble I would not consier my main character munchi because she had
developt over a long time to their current status.
Powergame yes munch not.
If I have created the character yet with the same stats I would be munching to
the
fullest.

--
Barbie the-rigger-decker-shaman-shapeshifter-500+-Karma-real-character


==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.

(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)

Message no. 6
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 10:31:49 PDT
<Snip stuff about Munchkinism>

Right On!

>-Canthros, the one and only (?) shapeshifter-mage, and munchkin on the
>mend:)

I played a weretiger physad once. I still have the character somwhere.
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:10:25 +0100
Brett Borger said on 8:11/17 Jul 97...

> > that adds 10 to his Quickness and
> > +5D6 to his Reaction, which has been magic-proofed so no magic can affect
> > him, and who is firing special armor-piercing EX explosive rounds
> > with an orichalcum jacket and a FAB core from the Vanquisher is
> > probably a munchkin.
>
> Probably?

Okay, "most likely a munchkin" then. But I'm not going to say "definitely
a munchkin" because I believe in almost never saying never :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:10:25 +0100
Barbie said on 18:51/17 Jul 97...

> I would define a munchkin as someone who wants the most powerfull
> being in the universe under his controll.
> He wants all at an instand and for free, if he can`t get it he will cheat to
> get it.

I'd add that the munchkin probably doesn't think of it that way -- he or
she will likely think that such a character is cool, without consciously
going through a book looking for rules to break.

> The other players and the gm are just tools for him to live out his
> profile neurosis.

Only if they let him, and my guess is that you'll find munchkins mostly
in new groups and in groups who don't have much or even any contact with
other roleplayers.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 9
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:32:00 -0400
In a message dated 97-07-18 05:38:10 EDT, benjamin@*****.COM (Benjamin)
writes:

>
> I played a weretiger physad once. I still have the character somwhere.
>
>
Tiger's are good, Tiger's are cool...Shivowtnoeh was a Tiger Mage way back
when and the first character (he died lots of different ways).
-Keith

Further Reading

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