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Message no. 1
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:37:33 +0100
Looking for some advice here...

As I think I may have mentioned once or twice before, some months ago my
players decided to have their characters fake their own deaths and move to
Denver. The reasons for picking this city was, I think, mainly because
it's the only place that has quite a detailed background written for it,
and because one of the players liked the idea of doing shadowruns and
possibly smuggling jobs there (all the others basically said "Yeah, sure,
why not, as good as any other city, I suppose").

My problem is that about half the group doesn't like the place because of
all the sectors, and the borders they have to cross all the time (the
campaign is currently in mid-2061, so no Ghostwalker yet). This despite
the fact that nobody has a fake ID rated below 6 (most are 8-10) and that
I've never had NPCs give them any real trouble at a border crossing except
the one time two PCs tried to leave the Pueblo sector very soon after
killing half a dozen Pueblo cops... All most of them see is the trouble
caused by the borders, not the opportunities these same borders give them;
even if some of these are pointed out (such as the way they escaped from
Pueblo justice after being sprung from jail by the rest of the team by
simply going to the UCAS sector) and/or workarounds are suggested (like
putting a cache of weapons in each sector) they still persist in taking a
negative view of it all. At yesterday's session there was even talk of
moving to a new city again, "one without sector passes".

I guess what I'm asking is for ways by which I can make Denver interesting
despite, or because of, the borders.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kemen (keemde, h gekeemd): het spelen van computerspelletjes
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 2
From: graht1@*****.com (Graht)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:57:12 -0700
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:37:33 +0100, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> Looking for some advice here...
>
> As I think I may have mentioned once or twice before, some months ago my
> players decided to have their characters fake their own deaths and move to
> Denver. The reasons for picking this city was, I think, mainly because
> it's the only place that has quite a detailed background written for it,
> and because one of the players liked the idea of doing shadowruns and
> possibly smuggling jobs there (all the others basically said "Yeah, sure,
> why not, as good as any other city, I suppose").
>
> My problem is that about half the group doesn't like the place because of
> all the sectors, and the borders they have to cross all the time (the
> campaign is currently in mid-2061, so no Ghostwalker yet). This despite
> the fact that nobody has a fake ID rated below 6 (most are 8-10) and that
> I've never had NPCs give them any real trouble at a border crossing except
> the one time two PCs tried to leave the Pueblo sector very soon after
> killing half a dozen Pueblo cops... All most of them see is the trouble
> caused by the borders, not the opportunities these same borders give them;
> even if some of these are pointed out (such as the way they escaped from
> Pueblo justice after being sprung from jail by the rest of the team by
> simply going to the UCAS sector) and/or workarounds are suggested (like
> putting a cache of weapons in each sector) they still persist in taking a
> negative view of it all. At yesterday's session there was even talk of
> moving to a new city again, "one without sector passes".
>
> I guess what I'm asking is for ways by which I can make Denver interesting
> despite, or because of, the borders.

Money, money, money, money... and money ;) Seriously, in a situation
like that there is a *ton* of money to be made. Why do crappy little
towns like El Paso exist? Because they sit at the conflux of a border
and a border crossing. There's the trade that goes back and forth
(most of it legal, but a not insignificant amount of illegal trade).
And then there's the people travelling across the border for..
"experiences" they can't get on their side of the border (again, legal
and illegal, or at least illegal on their side).

The Aztlan sector is sooooo ripe for this. There is so much people
can do in the Aztlan sector, and most of it legal there, that that
would attract a *lot* of "tourists". Heh, why do you think so many
military personel stationed in Europe go to the Netherlands ;) This
is a goldmine for the information trade. The runners are hired to go
into the Aztlan sector to: follow someone and find out what they're
really doing (for blackmail), or find someone who didn't come back, or
go with someone to act as bodyguard, or go with someone to make sure
they come back, or go with someone to make sure they don't come back,
or go with someone to help them out with a problem (debt), etc. And
then there's all the corporate adventures to steal paydata for one
side or the other.

Money.

Course, in a city like Denver they'll be spending it like water... ;)

--
-Graht
Message no. 3
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:15:58 +0100
According to Graht, on Monday 17 January 2005 19:57 the word on the street
was...

> Money, money, money, money... and money ;)

Which is exactly what they have been making... It could be that part of my
problem is that they may have so much money that they can decide they
don't want certain hassles :)

> Seriously, in a situation
> like that there is a *ton* of money to be made. Why do crappy little
> towns like El Paso exist? Because they sit at the conflux of a border
> and a border crossing.

Which is pretty much what I and the one player who wanted to take the
campaign to Denver have been trying to tell them: because of all the
borders, there is a lot of stuff going back and forth, and thus
opportunities to make a profit.

> The Aztlan sector is sooooo ripe for this.

Unfortunately that same player as mentioned above has put enough fear of
Aztlan into the others (he's the only one who actually reads the books,
but tends to draw peoples attention to the bad stuff in them instead of
the good stuff...) that they've already loudly proclaimed there are two
sectors off limits to them: Pueblo (because of the cop killings I
mentioned) and Aztlan (because it's run by Aztechnology, with whom they've
had exactly one run-in before, when I ran A Killing Glare...).

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kemen (keemde, h gekeemd): het spelen van computerspelletjes
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 4
From: graht1@*****.com (Graht)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:25:30 -0700
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:15:58 +0100, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> According to Graht, on Monday 17 January 2005 19:57 the word on the street
> was...
>
> > Money, money, money, money... and money ;)
>
> Which is exactly what they have been making... It could be that part of my
> problem is that they may have so much money that they can decide they
> don't want certain hassles :)

<nod> Course, Denver is a great place to liberate the PCs of their money.

> > The Aztlan sector is sooooo ripe for this.
>
> Unfortunately that same player as mentioned above has put enough fear of
> Aztlan into the others (he's the only one who actually reads the books,
> but tends to draw peoples attention to the bad stuff in them instead of
> the good stuff...) that they've already loudly proclaimed there are two
> sectors off limits to them: Pueblo (because of the cop killings I
> mentioned) and Aztlan (because it's run by Aztechnology, with whom they've
> had exactly one run-in before, when I ran A Killing Glare...).

Bait and switch :) They get hired to do a run and halfway through
they get framed for something, and the only way to clear themselves
(and save their lives) is to travel to the Aztlan side. Make sure the
adventure leaves them with solid contacts in the Aztlan sector so
they're hooked in for future adventures <egmg>.


--
-Graht
Message no. 5
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:38:44 +0100
According to Graht, on Monday 17 January 2005 20:25 the word on the street
was...

> Bait and switch :) They get hired to do a run and halfway through
> they get framed for something, and the only way to clear themselves
> (and save their lives) is to travel to the Aztlan side.

Pueblo is my aim, but Aztlan could also be an option. Yesterday's run
neatly set them up as unknowing partners in an attack on a train
transporting gas tanks (unfortunately the petrochemical plant I asked
about earlier didn't catch fire due to where the PCs had halted the
train), which should eventually result in them going into the Pueblo (or
Aztlan) sector to stop a toxic shaman from pulling their strings. So far
they've only just figured out they were set up, but don't really seem to
care because "we did the job we were hired for exactly as it was told to
us"... I have to juggle this so that they won't decide it's easier to get
out of Denver than it is to solve their problems there, though.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kemen (keemde, h gekeemd): het spelen van computerspelletjes
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: graht1@*****.com (Graht)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:54:03 -0700
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:38:44 +0100, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> According to Graht, on Monday 17 January 2005 20:25 the word on the street
> was...
>
> > Bait and switch :) They get hired to do a run and halfway through
> > they get framed for something, and the only way to clear themselves
> > (and save their lives) is to travel to the Aztlan side.
>
> Pueblo is my aim, but Aztlan could also be an option. Yesterday's run
> neatly set them up as unknowing partners in an attack on a train
> transporting gas tanks (unfortunately the petrochemical plant I asked
> about earlier didn't catch fire due to where the PCs had halted the
> train), which should eventually result in them going into the Pueblo (or
> Aztlan) sector to stop a toxic shaman from pulling their strings. So far
> they've only just figured out they were set up, but don't really seem to
> care because "we did the job we were hired for exactly as it was told to
> us"... I have to juggle this so that they won't decide it's easier to get
> out of Denver than it is to solve their problems there, though.

Use a contact: "Um.. guys, did you know that (x) thinks that you did
(y) and wants you dead? The only reason you're still alive is because
you're in Denver and it will take a while for them to reach you there.
If you leave you'll be dead within minutes of landing whereever you
land. You gotta clear your name. And btw, don't talk to me until you
have this cleared up. Runners gotta run, contacts gotta live, if you
know what I mean. <click>"

--
-Graht
Message no. 7
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:14:52 +0100
According to Graht, on Monday 17 January 2005 20:54 the word on the street
was...

> Use a contact: "Um.. guys, did you know that (x) thinks that you did
> (y) and wants you dead? The only reason you're still alive is because
> you're in Denver and it will take a while for them to reach you there.

Won't work, I'm afraid :( They went to fairly long lengths to make
themselves appear dead, and laid low for six months. Knowing my players,
if I have someone from their old lives contact them they'll turn the knob
marked "Paranoia" up to 10 and try to disappear again. And there's only so
many times I can have people recognize them before they'll start feeling
it's the GM and not the world working against them. IOW, if I do do
something like this, it will have to be "for real", so to speak.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kemen (keemde, h gekeemd): het spelen van computerspelletjes
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: graht1@*****.com (Graht)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:28:29 -0700
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:14:52 +0100, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> According to Graht, on Monday 17 January 2005 20:54 the word on the street
> was...
>
> > Use a contact: "Um.. guys, did you know that (x) thinks that you did
> > (y) and wants you dead? The only reason you're still alive is because
> > you're in Denver and it will take a while for them to reach you there.
>
> Won't work, I'm afraid :( They went to fairly long lengths to make
> themselves appear dead, and laid low for six months. Knowing my players,
> if I have someone from their old lives contact them they'll turn the knob
> marked "Paranoia" up to 10 and try to disappear again. And there's only so
> many times I can have people recognize them before they'll start feeling
> it's the GM and not the world working against them. IOW, if I do do
> something like this, it will have to be "for real", so to speak.

So.. they have no contacts. Hm... Not a problem :)

The Johnson that originally hired them (doesn't know who they really
are, doesn't care) tells them they've been fragged. He's telling them
because he needs to get his ass out of the sling too (he was framed
right along with them). It turns out he lives in Aztlan/Pueblo and
can get them the equipment they need once they get to his sector. If
they succeed they now have a contact in the appropriate sector :)
(along with a rep, good or bad depending on how well the react).

--
-Graht
Message no. 9
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:28:52 +0000
On Jan 17, 2005, at 18:37, Gurth wrote:

> I guess what I'm asking is for ways by which I can make Denver
> interesting
> despite, or because of, the borders.

Give the players an option to bypass the border checks altogether.

The main source of frustration over the Denver border system (well, at
least the source of *my* frustration when my group was playing in
Denver) is that each time a character crosses from a sector to another
(which is mandatory in order to get any shadowrunning done), it imposes
a roll that will, if it fails, get him and his team into big trouble.
It doesn't matter that the cop's scanners are low-rated or that the
PC's fake ID could trick Damien Knight into believing the PC is his
legitimate child. The fact is that each time a character crosses the
border, his fate rests in the hands of pure, dumb luck, and he can do
nothing to influence or avoid it.
In a shadowrun, you can avoid combat -- heck, you can avoid most rolls
or make sure they won't matter through planning, tactics and just being
smart. But if you have to cross a border, the "standard" system ensures
that no amount of planning will save you.
Your only resort is to pray that the cop will roll badly, or you and
your 60K¥ fake identity are toast for no other reason that you weren't
lucky today. *Nobody is to blame but the dice.* I can't speak for your
players, but that's the kind of situation I despise the most in any
roleplaying game.

It's like forcing the characters to play Russian Roulette every
session. The first time it happens, it's fun and tense. The second time
is already a time too many.

Therefore, you should provide them with a way to circumvent the checks
-- for example, the knowledge that the cops at [insert checkpoint here]
are notoriously crooked, and that they will look the other way for a
small fee (1000¥ for the team each time they pass -- which will
doubtlessly be covered by the Johnson anyway).
It doesn't have to be easy or cheap (although it shouldn't be too
expensive either) -- there just has to be a way, and you only need to
make sure the characters are aware of it. Then they'll stop
complaining.

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr at yahoo dot fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 10
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:28:24 -0800 (PST)
> > I guess what I'm asking is for ways by which I can make Denver
> > interesting despite, or because of, the borders.

> Give the players an option to bypass the border checks altogether.

I have to agree with this solution. The setup of Denver is ludicrous
from an economic perspective. As written, commerce would simply not
exist between the sectors. Which is, of course, not what FASA
intended at all. So, the necessary assumption is that there are
actually more ways to avoid border checks than there ways to run into
them. All sorts of methods to expedite border crossing would exsist
for shipping goods. Sure, large automated trucks crossing borders
unchallenged is a security nightmare. Why do you thing they install
scanning gear on commerical routes to issue a shutdown command to any
truck or shuttle with heat sigs outside the norm? And run the
vehicles with an internal environment that is lethal to metahumans?
And... hey, whatever you want, but the point is that commercial goods
would flow about the city with minimal interruption. Any criminal
community (read: runners) would know how to capitolize on this. A
constant, relatively quiet war between runners and border patrols
would rage. The only rule of engagement: don't interrupt the flow of
goods. The corps get mad, and then everyone has a bad day. Shipping
schedules, known scanner weaknesses, patrol timetables... all would
be in constant flux, and somewhere in every sector at least one fixer
would have tomorrow's info available today... for a price. In my
Denver games, runners cross borders with fake IDs when they WANT it
known they are in a sector. After all, if your cover ID, codename
Remix (fake name Bob Smith) is logged in 6 computers as spending the
weekend in the Ute Nation, it is problematic to prove he was in the
PCC isn't it? Among my player's favorite methods of border crossing
without ID check is a specialist runner group called Nightengale EMS.
They are a legitimate medical transport company, contracted by about
a dozen Denver area hospitols and morgues. Border cops tend to
ignore a chopper full of stiffs, and even when they don't, they just
want to scan for suspicious signatures. No way they want to open
bio-sealed body boxes with Ghost knows what sort of mess inside. If
the coffin is room temp and its weight matches the manifest, leave it
shut. If the poor slag in hammock 8 is a car wreck victim headed in
for some organ work, and the vitals monitor looks right, leave him
covered and get the chopper moving to Our Mother of Mercy trauma
center already. For roughly 10 to 2% of their gross take on a run,
the team never saw an ID scanner or the inside of a checkpoint. Cost
of doing biz in Denver chummer. Upside? You fragging know there is.
Where else can you move a scientist from Corp A (PCC) to Corp G
(Sioux), and not only do five out of seven mainframes KNOW you spent
the night in the UCAS, but it is ILLEGAL for further inquiries to be
made until a datastore the size of the Nexus is filled out with the
right treaty and waiver forms. Sweet deal chummer. I can be in 3
places at once, with a liquid-nitro chill alibi, and the cops can't
even find my run because the red tape of their own system has em
pinned down like riot control splat bombs. I got contacts six blocks
from here that don't know about my fixer in CAS, drek, don't even
know there IS a fixer in CAS who can get this kind of bang bang. I
got a wife in Aztlan who will swear under torture that I only leave
home for the occasional night at the bar, and telecommute otherwise.
I keep her in good nuyen and she's loyal as an overpayed merc with a
cranial bomb contract. Best part... she don't even know who Misty
Canyon is, let alone where she dances in the Ute, or how long we been
doin the coffin motel tango.

And so on.

Denver is about anonymity. If the runners split Denver, give them a
scare when the past comes calling. Chase them back. Make them
realize that in Denver they can not just stay vanished, but they can
make a living, even build a rep, without the past ever being the
wiser.

But, by all means, give them a way to tap the non-checkpoint border
crossings that (in any logical urban setting) HAVE to exist.

======Korishinzo
--Money has little patience for borders



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Message no. 11
From: graht1@*****.com (Graht)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:34:41 -0700
I just got another idea. Let them leave.

But, on the way out their plane/train crashes/derails and goes down in
an unfriendly sector (the players somehow manage to survive by the
grace of god). Then the fun starts.

--
-Graht
Message no. 12
From: pentaj2@********.edu (John C. Penta)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:45:40 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Ice Heart <korishinzo@*****.com>
Date: Monday, January 17, 2005 4:28 pm
Subject: Re: Denver troubles (for the GM)

>
> > > I guess what I'm asking is for ways by which I can make Denver
> > > interesting despite, or because of, the borders.
>
> > Give the players an option to bypass the border checks altogether.
>
> I have to agree with this solution. The setup of Denver is ludicrous
> from an economic perspective. As written, commerce would simply not
> exist between the sectors.

Actually...it's been too long for most to remember, but...yes. It would. It could.

IRL, it *has*.

Berlin. Before the wall came down. When Denver was written, 1991-92...It would have been
fresh in memories and the popular culture.

Commerce did exist, and thrived, too.

How? Well, the sectors have to trade, as Koshinzo noted. Most have to trade food, or other
essentials.

So how does smuggling happen?

Weelll, you can't scan everybody. At most, maybe 3-5% of all cargoes get more than a quick
check by the border guard. IRL, not even that. So lots slips through.

Beyond that, divided cities have unique patterns, particularly with as varying legal
systems as are present in Denver.

In Berlin, thriving black markets existed in such things as cigarettes, beer, etc.

No need to bypass the border checks...but they should be more or less (depending on the
border) able to be finagled. Maybe easily bribable guards, or other measures.
Message no. 13
From: ourteam@*******.net (Larry White)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:45:25 -0800
> My problem is that about half the group doesn't like the place because of
> all the sectors, and the borders they have to cross all the time

I think that the border-crossing computers wouldn't do a full identify check
every time a character crossed. If they crossed last week, and their
SIN/credstick/fingerprint passed the check at that time, then there is no
reason to waste processing cycles searching other databases to see if the
SIN is still valid this week.

I would make the ID scan only roll dice once every three months for a SIN
that crosses the border every week or two. After all, these computers have
to pass tens of thousands of people during rush hour every morning and
evening.
Message no. 14
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:05:54 +0100
According to Max Noel, on Monday 17 January 2005 21:28 the word on the
street was...

> The main source of frustration over the Denver border system (well, at
> least the source of *my* frustration when my group was playing in
> Denver) is that each time a character crosses from a sector to another
> (which is mandatory in order to get any shadowrunning done), it imposes
> a roll that will, if it fails, get him and his team into big trouble.

True, but only if the character doesn't have a good enough fake ID. Since
in my campaign, fake IDs cost only 10% of what they do according to the
SR3 rules, everyone can afford a good one (with typical shadowrunner
incomes, it's really just a matter of rolling well enough against the
Availability) and so the chance of being stopped, searched and/or arrested
at a border crossing point that has a rating 2-5 ID scanner is virtually
nil. Which, BTW, is something I've tried to get across to my players by
saying stuff such as "What rating was your fake ID again? 8? No point in
rolling for it, then..."

Not to mention I've also had them be smuggled across a few borders for only
minor amounts of money.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kemen (keemde, h gekeemd): het spelen van computerspelletjes
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:17:03 +0100
According to Ice Heart, on Monday 17 January 2005 22:28 the word on the
street was...

> In my
> Denver games, runners cross borders with fake IDs when they WANT it
> known they are in a sector. After all, if your cover ID, codename
> Remix (fake name Bob Smith) is logged in 6 computers as spending the
> weekend in the Ute Nation, it is problematic to prove he was in the
> PCC isn't it?

This is something my players _know_ but don't _realize_, I think. Let's
take the Pueblo cop killings I mentioned as an example: they went into the
Pueblo sector because they wanted to go to a mid-level corper's house and
ask him some questions. This turned into a shoot-out with the police
officers sent to investigate the guy in a black trench coat creeping
around the backs of houses in a nice neighborhood, as well as their
reinforcements. What then happened was that the players got the idea to go
back into the UCAS sector (their base of operations) and claim their car
was stolen a little while before this shoot-out.

Anyone see any obvious flaws with this plan, involving perhaps such things
as border checkpoint logs, video cameras in police cars, and Pueblo having
perhaps the world's most efficient computer network...?

Yet when we talk about why things like this happen, I get the impression my
players _know_ what can and may happen (aside from stuff like Pueblo's
network, because few of them bother to read the books) but they don't act
as if they know.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kemen (keemde, h gekeemd): het spelen van computerspelletjes
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 16
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:22:12 +0100
According to John C. Penta, on Monday 17 January 2005 23:45 the word on the
street was...

> Actually...it's been too long for most to remember, but...yes. It would.
> It could.
>
> IRL, it *has*.
>
> Berlin. Before the wall came down.

Too long ago to remember? I was there on vacation in the summer of 1990,
and have a dated piece of concrete wall section to prove it :)

> Commerce did exist, and thrived, too.
>
> How? Well, the sectors have to trade, as Koshinzo noted. Most have to
> trade food, or other essentials.

The difference is that Berlin was split into four sectors (American,
British, French and Russian) but that three of those (American, British
and French) formed essentially a single sector. Not sure how most of its
supplies etc. came in, but much of it must have come from West rather than
East Germany. Plus it had a border that would have prevented just about
all smuggling.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kemen (keemde, h gekeemd): het spelen van computerspelletjes
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 17
From: arclight@*********.de (Arclight)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:39:39 +0100
At 11:22 18.01.2005, Gurth wrote:

<snip>

>Too long ago to remember? I was there on vacation in the summer of 1990,
>and have a dated piece of concrete wall section to prove it :)

IMO, you could build three complete walls with all the souvenir stuff sold ;)

> > Commerce did exist, and thrived, too.
> >
> > How? Well, the sectors have to trade, as Koshinzo noted. Most have to
> > trade food, or other essentials.
>
>The difference is that Berlin was split into four sectors (American,
>British, French and Russian) but that three of those (American, British
>and French) formed essentially a single sector. Not sure how most of its
>supplies etc. came in, but much of it must have come from West rather than
>East Germany. Plus it had a border that would have prevented just about
>all smuggling.

Crossing the border over the wall and the security (Þath) zones would be
very hard, although some did it (by primitive tunnels dug under it, for
exampel). Most of the supplies came into Berlin by special transit routes,
highways leading from the federal republic through the GDR into Berlin. All
of that travel was checked by dogs, personnel, x-rays and so on.


--
Arclight

Quitters never win, winners never quit,
but those who never quit and never win are idiots
Message no. 18
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Denver troubles (for the GM)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:53:34 +0100
According to Arclight, on Tuesday 18 January 2005 11:39 the word on the
street was...

> IMO, you could build three complete walls with all the souvenir stuff
> sold ;)

Not bought, chopped from the actual wall by my father :)

> Crossing the border over the wall and the security (=death) zones would
> be very hard, although some did it (by primitive tunnels dug under it,
> for exampel). Most of the supplies came into Berlin by special transit
> routes, highways leading from the federal republic through the GDR into
> Berlin. All of that travel was checked by dogs, personnel, x-rays and so
> on.

Exactly my point. I walked through the no man's land on the "east" side of
the wall (but I have not been able to find my photos of it again :( ), and
if Denver's border crossings are as they're described in the box set, the
East German ones would be a good model for them.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kemen (keemde, h gekeemd): het spelen van computerspelletjes
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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