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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Slim Goodbody <zcarr@******.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 09:14:09 -0600
industrial diamonds are being produced at temperatures as low as 375 F.
This procedure was developed at Boston College about 9 months ago and
the patent is apparently waiting for approval. the original testing on
this method was done in n oven on a cookie sheet. The students who were
involved with it gave some of their imperfect (ugly I'll bet) diamonds
to their girlfriends. no...they probably were nice to look at, but they
WERE diamonds.

Prophet of Puyallup
_____________________________________________________________________________
/ / / / They had been corrupted by money, and he had been corrupted by |
| | | | sentiment. Sentiment was the more dangerous, because you couldn't |
\ \ \ \ name its price. A man open to bribes was to be relied upon below |
\ \ \ \ a certain figure, but sentiment might uncoil in the heart at |
| | | | a name, a photograph, even a smell remembered. -Graham Greene |
\ \ \ \_______________________________________________________________|
\__\__\__/
Message no. 2
From: "C. Paul Douglas" <granite@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Diamonds
Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 11:20:59 -0400
On Tue, 24 May 1994, Slim Goodbody wrote:

> industrial diamonds are being produced at temperatures as low as 375 F.
> This procedure was developed at Boston College about 9 months ago and
> the patent is apparently waiting for approval. the original testing on
> this method was done in n oven on a cookie sheet. The students who were
> involved with it gave some of their imperfect (ugly I'll bet) diamonds
> to their girlfriends. no...they probably were nice to look at, but they
> WERE diamonds.
>

Now if you are going to come out with something like this you are going
to HAVE to give some more specific details........
-------------------GRANITE
Message no. 3
From: Wordman wordman@*******.com
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:49:13 -0400
Anyone who has ever heard me rant against DeBeers may be interested in this
article:

http://www.salon.com/business/feature/2000/09/27/diamonds/index.html

It has two uses for Shadowrun:

1) It provides a bit of history for DeBeers Omnitech, and may give some
flavor for why they are still in business after a dragon (Lofwyr, IIRC)
flooded the diamond market.

2) It is a good description of how multi-million dollar companies, like
DeBeers (and Microsoft, to a lesser extent) can be built entirely on lies
and marketing. The article, for example, says: "Despite its elite status,
the diamond, which can be found in abundance from southern Africa to
Australia to northern Canada, is not the rarest of gems. With no intrinsic
value, all a gem-quality diamond has to offer is the perception of its
preciousness." This sort of logic can be extended to fuel shadowruns. In
particular, many runs seem to take the form of doing something to physical
assets of the company (extracting a scientist, destroying a prototype, etc.)
A huge body of runs are probably performed solely for reasons of marketing.
Message no. 4
From: DemonPenta@***.com DemonPenta@***.com
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 19:24:42 EDT
In a message dated 9/27/00 10:50:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
wordman@*******.com writes:

> The article, for example, says: "Despite its elite status,
> the diamond, which can be found in abundance from southern Africa to
> Australia to northern Canada, is not the rarest of gems. With no intrinsic
> value, all a gem-quality diamond has to offer is the perception of its
> preciousness."

Then...WHY is it so bloody wanted?
Message no. 5
From: Herc airwisp@******************.com
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:47:41 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: <DemonPenta@***.com>
> In a message dated 9/27/00 10:50:23 AM Eastern
Daylight Time,
> wordman@*******.com writes:
>
> > The article, for example, says: "Despite its
elite status,
> > the diamond, which can be found in abundance
from southern Africa to
> > Australia to northern Canada, is not the
rarest of gems. With no intrinsic
> > value, all a gem-quality diamond has to offer
is the perception of its
> > preciousness."
>
> Then...WHY is it so bloody wanted?

For several reasons ...

One ... because it is marketted so well ...

Two ... it's nice and shiny ...

Simple, neh?

-Mike
Message no. 6
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 20:53:56 -0400
Herc wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <DemonPenta@***.com>
> > In a message dated 9/27/00 10:50:23 AM Eastern
> Daylight Time,
> > wordman@*******.com writes:
> >
> > > The article, for example, says: "Despite its
> elite status,
> > > the diamond, which can be found in abundance
> from southern Africa to
> > > Australia to northern Canada, is not the
> rarest of gems. With no intrinsic
> > > value, all a gem-quality diamond has to offer
> is the perception of its
> > > preciousness."
> >
> > Then...WHY is it so bloody wanted?
>
> For several reasons ...
>
> One ... because it is marketted so well ...
>
> Two ... it's nice and shiny ...
>
> Simple, neh?
>
> -Mike

You forgot three: women like them because . . . well, I guess because
they're women (;^P).

And four (completely a work of fiction): because some prehistoric
Germanic barbarian out on a rampage picked it up as loot and when all of
his compadres laughed at him he told them it was rare, and then gave it
to his wife, who wore it everywhere and all the other women in the
village just HAD to have one and so they made THEIR husbands go get one
for them and now we gotta watch those stupid commercials about diamonds.

And finally, 5: it's chemically nifty.


--
--Strago

All Hail Apathy! Or don't. Whatever. -abortion_engine

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2+ SR3++ h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN+ SRFF W+ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+
(o++ d+) gm+ M P
Message no. 7
From: vocenoctum@****.com vocenoctum@****.com
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 22:57:26 -0400
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 19:24:42 EDT DemonPenta@***.com writes:
> In a message dated 9/27/00 10:50:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> wordman@*******.com writes:
>
> > The article, for example, says: "Despite its elite status,
> > the diamond, which can be found in abundance from southern Africa
> to
> > Australia to northern Canada, is not the rarest of gems. With no
> intrinsic
> > value, all a gem-quality diamond has to offer is the perception
> of its
> > preciousness."
>
> Then...WHY is it so bloody wanted?
>
>

I'm reminded of the commercial, where it compares a rat and a squirel ("a
rat with a bushy tail")
:-)
Diamonds just have good press nowadays.
But, perhaps it used to be more dificult to harvest them?
(heck, they were problably useless to the people of South Africa, until
the Europeans "taught them" how valuable they were :-)

I wonder if fake diamonds are more difficult to create than real diamonds
are to harvest? :-)

Vocenoctum
<http://members.xoom.com/vocenoctum>;

________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 8
From: Steve Collins einan@*********.net
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 00 23:55:02 -0500
>>
>> Then...WHY is it so bloody wanted?
>>
>>

Supply and Demand plus the cost to Mine them. The Diamond Cartel very
tightly controls the supply of Diamonds released to the public and they
are very expensive to produce. There is also the cost of cutting them
which is more of an art than a science, The value of 2 otherwise
identical Diamonds can vary by a factor of 5 if one is well cut and the
other is not.


>
>I'm reminded of the commercial, where it compares a rat and a squirel ("a
>rat with a bushy tail")
>:-)
>Diamonds just have good press nowadays.
>But, perhaps it used to be more dificult to harvest them?
>(heck, they were problably useless to the people of South Africa, until
>the Europeans "taught them" how valuable they were :-)

There is something to the good press issue keeping the price artificially
high as well.

>
>I wonder if fake diamonds are more difficult to create than real diamonds
>are to harvest? :-)
>

Very Much so and they're usually called Cubic Zirconias. They cost about
.5% of what a similar Diamond would cost and there is no one short of a
certified gemologist who can really tell the diffeence between them.
However if you think it doesn't matter, just see how badly most women
will kick your backside if you give her a Zirconia and try to pass it of
as a Diamond and she figures it out.


Steve
Message no. 9
From: Yiannakos yiannako@*******.edu
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 23:50:41 -0400
Steve Collins wrote:

> Very Much so and they're usually called Cubic Zirconias. They cost about
> .5% of what a similar Diamond would cost and there is no one short of a
> certified gemologist who can really tell the diffeence between them.
> However if you think it doesn't matter, just see how badly most women
> will kick your backside if you give her a Zirconia and try to pass it of
> as a Diamond and she figures it out.
>
> Steve

Actually, my mother works as a jeweler's apprentice, and she can tell
between C.Z. and diamond with a reasonable chance of success, but she
says that they have a new type of manufactured diamond (can't remember
the name, starts with M). They have an instrument that will analyze a
stone and tell you if it's diamond or not, and it will be fooled by this
new type of stone almost every time. They've had to buy a new machine.
:-)

For what it's worth.

Could the "hardest natural substance on earth" title (which I think it
still has) be a factor in the stone's value? Even if it doesn't, the
things are still so damn beautiful that I'd pay a lot for one. (and
have!)

---Dave ('s not here man)
Message no. 10
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:28:23 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.com>
To: ShadowRN <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Thursday, September 28, 2000 12:51 AM
Subject: Diamonds


>Anyone who has ever heard me rant against DeBeers may be interested in this
>article:
>
>http://www.salon.com/business/feature/2000/09/27/diamonds/index.html
>
>It has two uses for Shadowrun:
>
>1) It provides a bit of history for DeBeers Omnitech, and may give some
>flavor for why they are still in business after a dragon (Lofwyr, IIRC)
>flooded the diamond market.
>


I can see ye olde corporate dragon hiring a group of runners to destroy a
massive stockpile of his own diamonds after flooding the market, so just
after everyone sells theirs, the price goes up again. Or something. It's a
dragonish thing to do.
Message no. 11
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:32:04 +1000
I'm glad my fiance's not into diamonds.
In the old days, when glass was rare and plastic unheard of, pretty, rare,
see-through sparkly things would have seemed more valuable. It's just in
these days where to get a lot of see-through sparkly things all you need to
do is smash a windscreen that the perspective has changed.
Message no. 12
From: Allen Versfeld moe@*******.com
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:55:27 +0200
Steve Collins wrote:
>
> >>
> >> Then...WHY is it so bloody wanted?
> >>


Diamonds have some interesting properties. They're excellent conductors of heat. as in
you heat one side of a large diamond, the other side reaches the same temperature almost
immediately (this is why they're cold to the touch). They have very high refractive
indexes (which is why they sparkle and refract so prettily). They're the hardest
substance known (but still brittle, so don't go trying to prove anything by smacking them
with a hammer *g*).

The jewellery market is quite small, so most diamonds go to industry where their
properties (apart from glittery see-through thing) are needed. Diamond tipped drill bits
never get blunt, and don't overheat as easily, for example.

We're getting really good at making synthetic diamonds (and I'm not talking about cubic
zirconia), although they're produced in sheets instead of gems, so they're ideal for
industrial use, and useless for jewellery.

Here ends the lesson, I'll leave the finding of shadowrun-related uses for this
information as an exercise for the reader.
--
Allen Versfeld
moe@*******.za.net

QVANTI CANICVLA ILLE IN FENESTRA
Message no. 13
From: Wordman wordman@*******.com
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:12:07 -0400
> Diamonds just have good press nowadays.

And that is the point of my post, because this "good press" was directly
engineered by DeBeers. The "tradition" of the diamond engagement ring?
Invented by DeBeers in the early 20th century. The large numbers of movies
in the 50s featuring diamonds ("Diamonds Are Girl's Best Friend",
"Breakfast
at Tiffany's", et. al.)? Financed by DeBeers. Almost any picture you see of
someone glamorous wearing diamonds in public (Marylin Monroe, Elizabeth
Taylor, et. al.)? All wearing diamonds on loan from DeBeers.

In the middle of the Cold War, a large diamond strike was discovered in
Siberia, yielding strangely uniform, mid-size diamonds. Even at the height
of Sovietism, DeBeers was able to gain exclusive rights to these diamonds.
The diamonds themselves were to small to be sold as "marquee" diamonds, for
engagement rings, for example. Instead, capitalizing on their uniform size,
DeBeers invented the "tradition" of the 10 year anniversary band ("Tell her
you love her all over again"), featuring a ring of Siberian stones.

> But, perhaps it used to be more difficult to harvest them?

Not really. There are places in Africa where you can pick them off the
ground. In a Frontline story about DeBeers, a guys recounts hiring a bunch
locals to hang tin cans around their necks and crawl in a line over the
ground, picking up the diamonds the saw. He described the sound of the
event, each can making "plink... plink... plink..." noises.

> I wonder if fake diamonds are more difficult to create than real diamonds
> are to harvest? :-)

Yes, they are, for two reasons, neither of them technological. 1) Diamonds
are common, so in terms of pure volume, the cost of mining, per diamond, is
pretty small. 2) The company that invented the technique of producing
artificial diamonds, General Electric, signed a deal with DeBeers
restricting the gem quality diamonds that GE would make. (As a result, GE
makes only industrial diamonds.) Should GE violate this contract, I'm sure
the financial cost would be high.
Message no. 14
From: Wordman wordman@*******.com
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:12:09 -0400
> You forgot three: women like them because . . . well, I guess because
> they're women (;^P).

No. Women like them because, like men, they have been fooled by one of the
most successful marketing strategies in history.
Message no. 15
From: vocenoctum@****.com vocenoctum@****.com
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:34:04 -0400
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 23:50:41 -0400 Yiannakos <yiannako@*******.edu>
writes:
> Steve Collins wrote:
>
> > Very Much so and they're usually called Cubic Zirconias.

> Actually, my mother works as a jeweler's apprentice, and she can
> tell
> between C.Z. and diamond with a reasonable chance of success, but
> she
> says that they have a new type of manufactured diamond (can't
> remember
> the name, starts with M).

I know it sounds like "moi=zin-ite" or some such. Never having seen it in
print, can't say for sure.
IIRC, they're exclusive to Zales? (probably a wholly owned subsidiary of
DeBeers :-)


Vocenoctum
<http://members.xoom.com/vocenoctum>;

________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 16
From: Yiannakos yiannako@*******.edu
Subject: Diamonds
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:40:00 -0400
vocenoctum@****.com wrote:

> I know it sounds like "moi=zin-ite" or some such. Never having seen it in
> print, can't say for sure.

Sounds about right.

> IIRC, they're exclusive to Zales? (probably a wholly owned subsidiary of
> DeBeers :-)

I have no idea. My mom's kind of an "end-user", so who mines and
distributes them isn't really her concern. She's just an apprentice
anyway. The actual jewelers probably know.

---Dave ('s not here man)

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Diamonds, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.