Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: shannon@*****.co.za (Shannon Buys)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 10:23:50 +0200
So what's the difference between Shadowrunners and Professional Criminals?
Is there a difference? Are Shadowrunners still the 'robin hoods' of the
sprawl, or are they just a really good class of carreer criminal? I'm
finding the lines a bit greyed here.

What exactly is the definitive form of a Shadowrunner?
Message no. 2
From: arcaist@************.de (Patrick 'Arcaist' Theiner)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 10:55:44 +0200
From: "Shannon Buys"
> So what's the difference between Shadowrunners and
> Professional Criminals?

As I see it there's the street waste, the guys willing to anything for
money, but still calling themselves runners. There's the "middle class"
of runners - people with a certain set of rules of what they do and how
to do it, but no ethical codex of any kind. And there's the top of the
food chain: they are so good that they can choose which work they'll do.
So they don't do wetwork, don't work for Ares, only stun or whatever...

But still: shadowrunners are professional criminals, period. The
population, Lone Star, the media - they all see them that way. Only in
their own slightly distorted view they're robbing from the rich and
giving to the poor. They damage property, break weapons laws, kill
people, steal.

So basically it depends on who you ask. The corp guy who was fired
because of a run against his facility or the runner himself.

> What exactly is the definitive form of a Shadowrunner?

I'd say there isn't. They *tend* to to have cyberware or use magic, own
pretty expensive property (cars, houses, cyberdecks...), but there's no
rule of thumb. You'd probably recognise someone as a runner if you knew
he was one...

--
Patrick "Arcaist" Theiner
www.saeder-krupp.de
This email was hand-typed by one of our thousands
of specially trained gorillas at the Arcaist Message
Center (AMC) in Tuebingen, Germany. Help I'm
trapped in cage and can't get out. Want bananas.
Message no. 3
From: moe@*******.com (Allen Versfeld)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 11:09:17 +0200
Patrick 'Arcaist' Theiner wrote:
> From: "Shannon Buys"
>
>>So what's the difference between Shadowrunners and
>>Professional Criminals?
>
> But still: shadowrunners are professional criminals, period. The
> population, Lone Star, the media - they all see them that way. Only in
> their own slightly distorted view they're robbing from the rich and
> giving to the poor. They damage property, break weapons laws, kill
> people, steal.
>
> So basically it depends on who you ask. The corp guy who was fired
> because of a run against his facility or the runner himself.
>
>
>>What exactly is the definitive form of a Shadowrunner?
>

My definition of a Shadowrunner would only include the words "Criminal" and
"For Hire". He can be anything you want: gutter punk, retired mercenary,
teenageer in his bedroom with cobbled-together deck... but if he routinely
breaks the law in exchange for payment, and does so in a freelance fashion,
he's a shadowrunner.

a professional criminal who is not a shadowrunner would tend to work for one
boss only, as a member of a gang or syndicate, or would not usually wait to
be hired - he would go rob banks (for example) because that's what he does.
Message no. 4
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:51:40 +0000
>From: "Shannon Buys" <shannon@*****.co.za>
>So what's the difference between Shadowrunners and Professional Criminals?
>Is there a difference? Are Shadowrunners still the 'robin hoods' of the
>sprawl, or are they just a really good class of carreer criminal? I'm
>finding the lines a bit greyed here.

I suppose the only prime difference is that shadowrunners tend to be given
jobs while (other types of) criminals tend to come up with their own.
'Runners tend toward a more militaristic attitude while "on Job" (at least
the ones I know)
And of course player characters are shadowrunners rather than petty thieves.

>What exactly is the definitive form of a Shadowrunner?

I suppose the closest thing (despite Gurth's objections to Mel Odom) to the
"definitive 'runner team" would have to be people like Jack Skater and crew
(at least out of the ones I know).

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Message no. 5
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:36:58 +0200
According to Shannon Buys, on Tue, 08 Oct 2002 the word on the street was...

> So what's the difference between Shadowrunners and Professional
> Criminals? Is there a difference?

IMHO, the difference is mainly that criminals do what they do for
themselves, while shadowrunners do runs for others. Of course, the runners
benefit as well, but they usually get paid for their troubles, whereas a
criminal who works for someone else gets a share in the proceeds of the
crime, rather than a flat fee. Also, shadowrunners work for just about
anyone who pays them, while criminals tend to work with a much smaller
group of people.

> Are Shadowrunners still the 'robin hoods' of the sprawl, or are they just
> a really good class of carreer criminal?

I've never seen shadowrunners as "Robin Hoods," except maybe in the sense
that in Blackadder II, the Shadow, by Baldrick's definition, is a Robin
Hood-type figure :)

> I'm finding the lines a bit greyed here.

I think that's the intention :)

> What exactly is the definitive form of a Shadowrunner?

I don't think there is one. As far as definitions are concerned,
shadowrunners are criminals -- after all, they frequently commit crimes,
often violent ones. If you want a definition, "mercenary criminals" covers
it fairly well, I think.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 10:16:46 +0000
>From: "Patrick 'Arcaist' Theiner" <arcaist@************.de>
>But still: shadowrunners are professional criminals, period. The
>population, Lone Star, the media - they all see them that way. Only in
>their own slightly distorted view they're robbing from the rich and
>giving to the poor. They damage property, break weapons laws, kill
>people, steal.

Yes they are proffesional criminals, but I'm not sure that's how they're
seen, certainly the media sees them as an arcetype which sells sims
Sapphire: Shadowrunner for Hire is a perfect example, the media of 2063 (I
think) views Shadowrunners like the modern media views government agents,
yes they're the IRS when they visit you but the rest of the time they're
James Bond or Ethan Hunt.
As the media define public opinion the general population are likely to see
'runners in an even more rarified way, the "bad 'runners" won't be seen as
'runners at all.
A profesional 'runner does the job should have minimum collatoral damage
attached to their name, property damage? maybe some jazzed locks. Civilian
casualties? yes but eyewitnesses might say that the shot's came from the
corporate security guard who chased them...etc.
Because of that (and that most 'runners won't go near a job where the pay
comes from Novacoke, BTLs...etc.
However, my team are currently starting to think of themselves as sort of
"white knights" saving damsels in distress, fair enough think of yourself
that way, their problem is that they take jobs in a "white knight" fashion
(throw them a damsel in distress and the leap on the job without legwork or
anything...
They (or at least the mage and the Blade wannabe Assassin) then proceed
through the 'run as if they're in competition to see who can rack up the
highest bodycount.
People are strange really :-)

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Message no. 7
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 10:35:29 +0000
>From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
>I've never seen shadowrunners as "Robin Hoods," except maybe in the sense
>that in Blackadder II, the Shadow, by Baldrick's definition, is a Robin
>Hood-type figure :)

Blackadder III, Amy and Amiability. I believe the line goes something like:

Baldric: "What a man, they say he's halfway to becoming the new Robin Hood."

Edmund: "Only halfway Baldric?"

Baldric: "Well he steals from the rich, but he hasn't quite got round to
giving to the poor yet. Look, I've got a poster of him!"

I'm surprised at you Gurth, placing "The Shadow" in the reign of Elizabeth
the First (or possibly just not quite hitting the "I" key hard enough the
third time.)
:-)

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Message no. 8
From: shannon@*****.co.za (Shannon Buys)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:43:24 +0200
Gurth Wrote:

>They (or at least the mage and the Blade wannabe Assassin) then proceed
>through the 'run as if they're in competition to see who can rack up the
>highest bodycount.
>People are strange really :-)

Strange. My team seems to be avoiding combat like the plague. I've really
TRIED (guess cause I just want to see how far I can push) to get them into a
fight and they insist on trying to talk their way out. The last three
infiltrations in a row they got out without ANY casualties. Nothing, nada.
Yes they tasered a few guards and took two unfortunates with them cause they
didn't really know what to do with them, but they let them go afterward in a
safe place. Strangely this bunch don't see themselves as particularly
ethical, they just say killing people is unprofessional and bad for business
if it's unnecesary.

Unfortunately, last week playing through one of the Corp War tracks, blood
in the board room, they managed to blow an entire delta clinic sky high with
most of its ocupants still inside, guess it evens out then.... :-(
Message no. 9
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 11:29:08 +0000
>From: "Shannon Buys" <shannon@*****.co.za>
>Gurth Wrote:

Actually it was me.

<Snip™>
>Strangely this bunch don't see themselves as particularly
>ethical, they just say killing people is unprofessional and bad for
>business
>if it's unnecesary.

True, and my character's outlook before I had a long discussion with Kori on
the topic of Good blood spirits and morality in shadowrun, from cold
efficient sniper to narcoject carrying, gel round using, turning down
wetwork* tree-hugger in one easy step.
*Not all wetwork, just particular ones (although a chunk of that comes from
a job we had to do, which involved killing 5 researchers, downloading their
headware memory and making sure noone else could reconstruct the contents of
it by shooting them, in the head, at close range with a shotgun loaded with
white phosphorous shot. Nasty).

Have you tried having street punks roll them, a good number, armed and
aggresive. or perhaps if they like their tasers and their squirt guns put in
a couple of elite guards in fully enclosing, HazMat sealed, nonconductive
armour, give them some neurostun and turn the tables on them.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Message no. 10
From: shannon@*****.co.za (Shannon Buys)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:54:04 +0200
Lone Eagle wrote:

>Have you tried having street punks >roll them, a good number, armed and
>aggresive. or perhaps if they like their tasers and their squirt guns put
in
>a couple of elite guards in fully enclosing, HazMat sealed, nonconductive
>armour, give them some neurostun and turn the tables on them.

Cool idea, however I don't really want to force them into taking life, I'm
all too happy with the fact that they're not trigger happy combat monsters,
I just thought it was strange. Still, If it works, poke it with a stick
till you know what will break it. :)
Message no. 11
From: markus.widmer@******.at (Markus Widmer)
Subject: AW: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:01:18 +0200
Lone Eagle wrote:
<snip>
>
> *Not all wetwork, just particular ones (although a chunk of that
> comes from
> a job we had to do, which involved killing 5 researchers,
> downloading their
> headware memory and making sure noone else could reconstruct the
> contents of
> it by shooting them, in the head, at close range with a shotgun
> loaded with
> white phosphorous shot. Nasty).

Whit phosphorous shot? That works? Sounds pretty hot to me (for the
guy shooting the shotgun).

Markus
Message no. 12
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:21:36 +0000
>From: "Shannon Buys" <shannon@*****.co.za>
>I just thought it was strange. Still, If it works, poke it with a stick
>till you know what will break it. :)

Make sure it's a nice big stick of course :-)

I mean how are you supposed to build up nice thick Lone Star dossiers
listing all their big nasty felonies or force triple A's to start looking at
the viability of sending hit teams after them if they never put anyone in
hospital?

:-)

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Message no. 13
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:30:13 +0000
>From: "Shannon Buys" <shannon@*****.co.za>
>Cool idea, however I don't really want to force them into taking life, I'm
>all too happy with the fact that they're not trigger happy combat monsters,

Just a thought actually, have you put them up against anything which isn't
metahuman (at least to the general public perception) I'm thinking people
with HMHVV, for example, it might be interesting to see how they cope with
vampires, run them badly enough that it isn't too hard for your team to deal
with (so they haven't got the "I was about to die!" excuse) if they hit a
combat frenzy and rip through them all then they're probably repressing...
Either that or use Kyle Morgan a few times, the second time my team saw
Perianwyr swoop down to save him, (they'd even made him use the Hand of God
rule, they had him on serious damage and suddenly...) all of the players
were spitting teeth and looking for something to kill, badly.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Message no. 14
From: York.GA@******.ca (York.GA@******.ca)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:30:20 -0400
According to Shannon Buys, on Tue, 08 Oct 2002 the word on the street was..

> So what's the difference between Shadowrunners and Professional
> Criminals? Is there a difference?

I think the main difference is that shadowrunners are paid to break the law
by a johnson and professional criminal may or may not be working for
someone.

Coyote
Message no. 15
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: AW: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:35:52 +0000
>From: Markus Widmer <markus.widmer@******.at>
>Whit phosphorous shot? That works? Sounds pretty hot to me (for the
>guy shooting the shotgun).

I've heard of it in the real world (although whether it really exists or not
I couldn't say) presumably if you encapsulate the phosphorous in a very
frangable material it wont have the chance to ignite until it his the
target.
Would it be any different to using big D's temper rounds? Other than the
heat being concentrated in individual pellets rather than as a wash of
flame?

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Message no. 16
From: shannon@*****.co.za (Shannon Buys)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:17:58 +0200
Lone Eagle wrote:

Just a thought actually, have you put them up against anything which isn't
metahuman (at least to the general public perception) I'm thinking people
with HMHVV, for example, it might

<snip>

Heh heh, all aranged. One of the players (the uh.. less pacifistic one),
well, his girlfriend kinda got a nasty little magical sickness, and well,
uhm, he's about to start noticing it at tonights game. Yes I'm a bastard,
but this is partially due to his own making. He took the dark secret flaw
at startup. I asked what was the secret, so he said "surprise me". I said
are you sure you want to do that. He said yeah, why not, how bad can it
be...

Lesson. Never say "Surprise me" to your GM. Especially if he belongs to
the "Evil GM School". heh heh he....
Message no. 17
From: pgrosse@********.com (Paul Grosse)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:29:27 -0500
> Lesson. Never say "Surprise me" to your GM. Especially if
> he belongs to
> the "Evil GM School". heh heh he....
>

hehe, I learned that my very first PnP game. I neglected to make a
detailed backstory for my char.
Message no. 18
From: gpammenter@*****.com (Gareth Pammenter)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 06:38:50 -0700 (PDT)
>Shannon Buys <shannon@*****.co.za> said:
> Heh heh, all aranged. One of the players (the uh..
>less pacifistic one), well, his girlfriend kinda got
>a nasty little magical sickness, and well, uhm, he's
>about to start noticing it at tonights game. Yes I'm

>a bastard, but this is partially due to his own
>making. He took the dark secret flaw at startup. I
>asked what was the secret, so he said "surprise me".

>I said are you sure you want to do that. He said
>yeah, why not, how bad can it be...
>
> Lesson. Never say "Surprise me" to your GM.
>Especially if he belongs to the "Evil GM School". heh

>heh he....


Taking "Dark Secret" is bad enough, let alone saying
_anything_ like "surprise me" attached to it. I
mean... the things even a normal GM could do with it
are so horrific I'm not going to bother thinking about
what a true EGM could do.

Grim Shear <-- (at the new, non-hotmail screwy addy)
"muwhahahaha... Muwhahahaha... MUWHAHAhaha.. Oh god!" :)

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
Message no. 19
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 13:40:21 +0000
>From: "Shannon Buys" <shannon@*****.co.za>
<Snip™>
>but this is partially due to his own making. He took the dark secret flaw
>at startup. I asked what was the secret, so he said "surprise me". I said
>are you sure you want to do that. He said yeah, why not, how bad can it
>be...
>
>Lesson. Never say "Surprise me" to your GM. Especially if he belongs to
>the "Evil GM School". heh heh he....

Lesson 2. Never take the Dark Secret, Mysterious cyberware or cranial bomb
(among my favourites) Flaws. Ever. Unless your GM runs a really high powered
munchkin campaign (in which case take mysterious cyberware and tell the GM
to surprise you, you'll probably end up getting a Cyberdyne Systems Model
101 endoskeleton costing .1 Essence or something... especially if the
munchkin GM is 12.)

Lesson 3. Shoot straight, conserve ammo, Never deal with a Dragon and never
ever trust a GM from the EvilGM™ school. Ever.

Lesson 4. Never ever trust a GM from the EvilGM™ school. I can't emphasise
this lesson enough.

Lesson 5. Don't get dead.

Lesson 6. Did I mention that you shouldn't trust an EvilGM™?

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 20
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 13:43:25 +0000
>From: Gareth Pammenter <gpammenter@*****.com>
>Grim Shear <-- (at the new, non-hotmail screwy addy)
>"muwhahahaha... Muwhahahaha... MUWHAHAhaha.. Oh god!" :)

I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Does anyone else get the impression that there won't be many Hotmail users
on the list by the end of the year? or is it just me...

:-)

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Message no. 21
From: nightgyr@*********.com.au (GreyWolf)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:45:19 +1000
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Grosse"
> > Lesson. Never say "Surprise me" to your GM. Especially if
> > he belongs to
> > the "Evil GM School". heh heh he....
> >
>
> hehe, I learned that my very first PnP game. I neglected to make a
> detailed backstory for my char.

Well right now I have one guy who decided to take dark secret, one who has
amnesia and one who decided to not make up his own story and just have been
stuck in a corp lab most of his life. I ended up writing his background up
for him.. but he only knows part of it.. and those strange visions have just
started appearing at the strangest moments. I mean. Why did that mountain of
fettid, rotting flesh just start to grow wings and fly towards him buzzing
like a thousand angry flies? Oh he woke up with brown underwear? So he
should <egmg>

nb: I am running the game at 2050 so I can run through certain .. nay.. all
of the cannon storyline with them. Did I mention he was the only mage in the
party?

GreyWolf
Message no. 22
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 14:20:45 +0000
>From: "GreyWolf" <nightgyr@*********.com.au>
<Snip™>
>fettid, rotting flesh just start to grow wings and fly towards him buzzing
>like a thousand angry flies? Oh he woke up with brown underwear? So he
>should <egmg>
>
>nb: I am running the game at 2050 so I can run through certain .. nay.. all
>of the cannon storyline with them. Did I mention he was the only mage in
>the
>party?

I'm just reworking missing blood to suit our timeline, our only mage is
currently having some odd dreams too, a face she recognises but she's sure
she's never seen before keeps turning up in the damndest places. Last night
I got her to destroy something...

Ahhh, it gives me a warm squishy feeling inside, she doesn't have long
before it's her bodyguard, friend for life plus half her starting resources
solid NPC, about the closest thing she has to a cat...

MuuuaaaahaHa Ha Haa Haaa Haaaa HAAAAA!!!!!
(and yes I do know that multiple exclamation marks are a sign of a twisted
mind.)

My Bachelors in EvilGM™ ing is secure, I could even manage a 1st.

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 23
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:25:34 +0200
According to Shannon Buys, on Tue, 08 Oct 2002 the word on the street was...

> Gurth Wrote:
> >They (or at least the mage and the Blade wannabe Assassin) then proceed
> >through the 'run as if they're in competition to see who can rack up the
> >highest bodycount.
> >People are strange really :-)

No, I didn't -- you're quoting someone else here :)

> Strange. My team seems to be avoiding combat like the plague. I've
> really TRIED (guess cause I just want to see how far I can push) to get
> them into a fight and they insist on trying to talk their way out.

So set up a situation where talking won't work no matter how hard they try.
Or, if you do want to give them a chance at talking, make combat seem the
much easier and quicker way out. For example, my players got boarded while
on a small boat in the Pacific by the Salish-Shidhe Coast Patrol. Two of
the IDs they presented to them turned out to be obviously fake, and a third
was suspected to be. A moment later, after the ones with the fake IDs had
been marched at gunpoint onto the CP ship for arrest on suspiscion of being
smugglers, the sailors searching the boat found bags full of weapons and
other shadowrunner gear. At that point, talking became rather useless, and
so the team resorted to violence.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 24
From: mcuthbertson@***.co.za (malcolm)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 07:44:58 +0200
It comes down to the deed , how it is planned and who benefits directly from
the crime being committed ( other than the promise of payment from johnson )
shadowrunners on the whole except when facing those GM's from the evil GM
school . tend to do crime for the almighty credstick balance , criminals
tend to seek personal gain from their crime though their gain is sometimes
less materialistic .

for a good description try corporate shadowfiles from the archives of 2nd ed

By the way how are things up in Pretoria ,
KANNIEMEERNIE Korperaal
" Is that you brother doorkeeper" - wonse , the figure reached out
"METAPHORICALLY"
Guards, Guards - Terry Pratchett
Message no. 25
From: dmhyde@***.net (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:06:17 -0500
> My Bachelors in EvilGMT ing is secure, I could even manage a 1st.

I too would like a Bachelors from this school, then a masters, then
continuing on to become a Doctor of the field of EvilGMT could someone
enlighten me on where I might begin my schooling?
Message no. 26
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:47:07 +0000
>From: "Derek Hyde" <dmhyde@***.net>
> > My Bachelors in EvilGMT ing is secure, I could even manage a 1st.
>
>I too would like a Bachelors from this school, then a masters, then
>continuing on to become a Doctor of the field of EvilGMT could someone
>enlighten me on where I might begin my schooling?

How in the world did I manage to add a "T"?
Oh well...Ah, I know what it is, its my Trade mark symbol!

In order to qualify to begin your bachelors in EvilGM™ ing at the EvilGM
school you must first have obtained qualifications in the following
subjects; Sadism, Twisted Paranoia and finding players willing to put up
with EvilGM ing. Qualifications in "Bluff, double bluff, triple bluff" and
"what if he isn't bluffing at all?" are also advantageous.

For an application form send an SAE to "The EvilGM™ School" at the address
given below.
<File Segment Corrupted, 0.45Mp deleted by SysOp.>

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Message no. 27
From: shannon@*****.co.za (Shannon Buys)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:11:52 +0200
Lone Eagle wrote:

>For an application form send an SAE to "The EvilGM™ School" at the address
>given below.
><File Segment Corrupted, 0.45Mp deleted by SysOp.>

Or you could just go do a search for "BOFH" (Bastard Operator From Hell) on
google and read about the BOFH and apply that mindset to GM'ing.
Message no. 28
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:28:35 +0200
According to Lone Eagle, on Wed, 09 Oct 2002 the word on the street was...

> > > My Bachelors in EvilGMT ing is secure, I could even manage a 1st.
>
> How in the world did I manage to add a "T"?
> Oh well...Ah, I know what it is, its my Trade mark symbol!

It shows up as a question mark in my mailer (except above, where it got
translated into a T by Derek's mailer) because you're using Windows
character references that aren't supported by ISO-8859 character sets.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 29
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 11:00:08 +0000
>From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
> > > > My Bachelors in EvilGMT ing is secure, I could even manage a 1st.
> >
> > How in the world did I manage to add a "T"?
> > Oh well...Ah, I know what it is, its my Trade mark symbol!
>
>It shows up as a question mark in my mailer (except above, where it got
>translated into a T by Derek's mailer) because you're using Windows
>character references that aren't supported by ISO-8859 character sets.

As far as I knew I was using standard ASCII characters, I have to confess
only minimal knowledge of ISO-8859... It comes through on hotmail ok. k:-o
BTW "™" is Alt+0153.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
Message no. 30
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 13:50:38 -0600
At 06:06 PM 10/8/2002 -0500, Derek Hyde wrote:
> > My Bachelors in EvilGMT ing is secure, I could even manage a 1st.
>
>I too would like a Bachelors from this school, then a masters, then
>continuing on to become a Doctor of the field of EvilGMT could someone
>enlighten me on where I might begin my schooling?

I recommend attending Steven Tinner's School of Evil GMing :)

(Is Tinner still subscribed to ShadowRN?)

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
--
Message no. 31
From: dmhyde@***.net (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:55:17 -0500
> It shows up as a question mark in my mailer (except above, where it
got
> translated into a T by Derek's mailer) because you're using Windows
> character references that aren't supported by ISO-8859 character sets.

It got translated by mine? Umm....don't think so, I copied the TM sign
from the message I replied to cause I was too lazy to fight with
Microsoft Office.....
Message no. 32
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:02:09 +1000 (EST)
--- Lone Eagle <loneeagle2061@*******.com> wrote: >
>From: Gareth Pammenter <gpammenter@*****.com>
> >Grim Shear <-- (at the new, non-hotmail screwy
> addy)
> >"muwhahahaha... Muwhahahaha... MUWHAHAhaha.. Oh
> god!" :)
>
> I've said it before and I'll say it again:
> Does anyone else get the impression that there won't
> be many Hotmail users
> on the list by the end of the year? or is it just
> me...
>
> :-)
>

No It's not just you, I changed for the better too :)
(GZ)

http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS
- Always be connected to your Messenger Friends
Message no. 33
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:27:48 +0200
According to Graht, on Wed, 09 Oct 2002 the word on the street was...

> (Is Tinner still subscribed to ShadowRN?)

IIRC, the last I read of him on this list is when he said he'd unsub
because he was getting married or something. That was years ago...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Diff's between Shadowrunners and Pro-criminals, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.