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Message no. 1
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 22:46:43 CET
Hi,
I've sat back and listened to the Dikoted Bullet argument for a little while
and have one thing to say about the stats that were posted. MUNCHKIN! Now this
was not directed at the poster (your my bud), but All Armor Negated is STUPID
and without grounds.
Shadowtech is rather specific about what happens when you dikote something.
Armor gains a point. Blunt weapons gain +1 Power Level. Edged Weapons gain +1
Damage Level. Now where are their reduce armor rating rules.
Besides no matter how hard Dikote Bullets may be if they hit armor it will
reduce the power. There's a difference between hitting plain flesh and Kevlar
over flesh. And hell, hitting Hard Armor is like hitting a barrier. After all
they are made of Kevlar and Ceramics.
The question is then is a bullet a blunt attack (all be it a rather high power
blunt attack) or an edged attack. I would have to lean towards it being a
blunt attack. Therefore it gains +1 Power Level by the Dikote rules. But since
it is a damn hard bullet (as many have pointed out) I would also give it the
half armor rule that APDS uses.
Now your all probably saying this just sucks. It's like a combonation of APDS
and Explosive bullets. Well boys and girls, Dikote is not the oh so awsome
substance that so many of you think it is. It's just a diamond coating.

Dikoted Weapon Foci:
I would like to thank Quincunx for allowing me to go on about one of my
favorite pet peeves. No, it's not decker/mages, it Dikoted Weapon Foci. The
best way to voice my opinion on this subject is DREKING IMPOSSIBLE!
I can see it now. "Excuse me mister sword enchanter, I would like a dikoted
sword." To which he responds, "O.K., smart ass, would you like me to enchant it
first so the dikoting process can blast all the magic out of it, or afterwards
so I can try to enchant a heavily technological item?"
This just won't work. I find it rather amusing that in the Anchoring section
that if you anchor a damaging manipulation spell to a dikoted weapon that the
dikote comes off. Can we all say magic and tech don't mix.
Isn't it interesting that an example used in the talismongering section of the
Grimoire states that things that have been heavily influenced by technology are
have no magicall energy.
Now technically speaking the rules say you could enchant something as
technologically created as your average automobile, but I'd like to see you
find an enchanter who will enchant something that's not hand-made (and most
likely his hand).
So enough of my banter. Take it as you will.

See Ya in Shadows,
Jason J Carter
The Nightstalker

P.S. Reason #2 Dikote Bullets make no sense: They cost 10,020 nuyen for 10!
Message no. 2
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 11:58:31 -0500
In fields of fire, there is reference to the superiority of dikoted
weapons over the cougar fine blade knife because of their anti-armor
capability, but as far as I know, that is never stated in shadowtech.
Personnally, it would make also of sence to me....cover a weapon with a
thin layer of diamond, it will have a easier time cutting through the
softer cermanic and kevlar armor. Does anyone have any reference or ideas
or statements made by the people in charge at FASA :-)
Message no. 3
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 19:14:36 +0000
|
|In fields of fire, there is reference to the superiority of dikoted
|weapons over the cougar fine blade knife because of their anti-armor
|capability, but as far as I know, that is never stated in shadowtech.
|Personnally, it would make also of sence to me....cover a weapon with a
|thin layer of diamond, it will have a easier time cutting through the
|softer cermanic and kevlar armor. Does anyone have any reference or ideas
|or statements made by the people in charge at FASA :-)
|

The reference is probably about Dikote versus Heavy Armour...
You know how Heavy Armour is immune to damage from melee attacks and light
projectile weapons....

Well, Dikote get's over that problem...

Street Sam with Dikoted Scimitar versus a tank?
Diced tank anyone?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| |
|Andrew Halliwell | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
|Principal subjects in:- | "THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!! |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | - Father Jack in "Father Ted"
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 4
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 19:25:49 +0000
On 26 Nov 96 at 11:58, Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:

> In fields of fire, there is reference to the superiority of dikoted
> weapons over the cougar fine blade knife because of their anti-armor
> capability, but as far as I know, that is never stated in shadowtech.
> Personnally, it would make also of sence to me....cover a weapon with a
> thin layer of diamond, it will have a easier time cutting through the
> softer cermanic and kevlar armor. Does anyone have any reference or ideas
> or statements made by the people in charge at FASA :-)
*sigh*

Raising the power or the Damage Code of a weapon _means_ it is more effective
against armor, since it is harder to resist...

It's so easy...

Sascha
--
+---___---------+------------------------------------+------------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |Things that try to look |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@ | like things often do |
| \___ __/ | Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.de | look more like things |
|==== \_/ ======|*Wearing hats is just a way of life*| than things. Well known|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | fact. - E.Weatherwax |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 5
From: Timothy P Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 11:24:30 -0800
>
> In fields of fire, there is reference to the superiority of dikoted
> weapons over the cougar fine blade knife because of their anti-armor
> capability, but as far as I know, that is never stated in shadowtech.
> Personnally, it would make also of sence to me....cover a weapon with a
> thin layer of diamond, it will have a easier time cutting through the
> softer cermanic and kevlar armor. Does anyone have any reference or ideas
> or statements made by the people in charge at FASA :-)

Re-read the sections on Dikote in Shadowtech. It talks about how dikote weapons affect
vehicle armor and stuff like that...as for the "easier time cutting though
[stuff]",
isn't that what the damage incease is?

~Tim
Message no. 6
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:52:46 -0500
> |
> |In fields of fire, there is reference to the superiority of dikoted
> |weapons over the cougar fine blade knife because of their anti-armor
> |capability, but as far as I know, that is never stated in shadowtech.
> |Personnally, it would make also of sence to me....cover a weapon with a
> |thin layer of diamond, it will have a easier time cutting through the
> |softer cermanic and kevlar armor. Does anyone have any reference or ideas
> |or statements made by the people in charge at FASA :-)
> |
>
> The reference is probably about Dikote versus Heavy Armour...
> You know how Heavy Armour is immune to damage from melee attacks and light
> projectile weapons....
>
> Well, Dikote get's over that problem...
>
> Street Sam with Dikoted Scimitar versus a tank?
> Diced tank anyone?
> --

Actually, the referience is to using dikoted crossbow bolts against armor
passanger cars with great effect against the passangers.
Message no. 7
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:02:09 -0500
> >
> > In fields of fire, there is reference to the superiority of dikoted
> > weapons over the cougar fine blade knife because of their anti-armor
> > capability, but as far as I know, that is never stated in shadowtech.
> > Personnally, it would make also of sence to me....cover a weapon with a
> > thin layer of diamond, it will have a easier time cutting through the
> > softer cermanic and kevlar armor. Does anyone have any reference or ideas
> > or statements made by the people in charge at FASA :-)
>
> Re-read the sections on Dikote in Shadowtech. It talks about how dikote weapons
affect
> vehicle armor and stuff like that...as for the "easier time cutting though
[stuff]",
> isn't that what the damage incease is?
>
Kind of, but not exactly. Take flechletes (or explosive) vs APDS.
Flechlete ammo has a damage increase...APDS has anti-armor capabilities.
Thats the difference. Or one doesn't make an anti-armor missle by
increaseing the size of the warhead (they usually do that as well, but
thats not my point), instead they form the explosive into a shaped charge,
so when the explosion goes off, instead of the force going everywhere, it
is focused into the plasma jet that forces its way into the armor. I
agree that FASA could work the anti-armor capability of Dikote by just
increasing the damage of the weapon, but then what is the difference
between a dikoted knife and a fine blade dagger. There isn't any. And by
there own words (or at least the words of Dennis 'D' (p55)) dikote is
more effective "especially because it has anti-armor capability."
Message no. 8
From: John Pederson <Canthros@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:01:22 -0500
In a message dated 96-11-26 11:55:01 EST, you write:

>In fields of fire, there is reference to the superiority of dikoted
>weapons over the cougar fine blade knife because of their anti-armor
>capability, but as far as I know, that is never stated in shadowtech.
>Personnally, it would make also of sence to me....cover a weapon with a
>thin layer of diamond, it will have a easier time cutting through the
>softer cermanic and kevlar armor. Does anyone have any reference or ideas
>or statements made by the people in charge at FASA :-)
It's been awhile since I looked at that book (and I don't currently have any
access to it) so if I'm wrong, don't flame me:), but I thought it stated that
the fine blade knife was unable to attack against hardened/vehicle armor...I
don't think the diamond coating would work real well-AFAIK, diamonds are
kinda brittle (I think you can smash one with a hammer) and I don't think it
would stand up to the force of a melee blow against armor...the other thing
is, how would you coat a weapon with a diamond crystal (or with diamond
dust)? It might be better to put diamond dust into the steel of the weapon,
but I don't believe that would give you any sort of advantages...besides,
wouldn't it be cheaper to use dikote anyway?

John Pederson "God is dead"
canthros@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to 1900)
lobo1@****.com "Nietzsche is dead"
http://members.gnn.com/lenoj/johns.htm -God (everlasting to everlasting)

"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Message no. 9
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:33:18 -0500
> In a message dated 96-11-26 11:55:01 EST, you write:
>
> >In fields of fire, there is reference to the superiority of dikoted
> >weapons over the cougar fine blade knife because of their anti-armor
> >capability, but as far as I know, that is never stated in shadowtech.
> >Personnally, it would make also of sence to me....cover a weapon with a
> >thin layer of diamond, it will have a easier time cutting through the
> >softer cermanic and kevlar armor. Does anyone have any reference or ideas
> >or statements made by the people in charge at FASA :-)
> It's been awhile since I looked at that book (and I don't currently have any
> access to it) so if I'm wrong, don't flame me:), but I thought it stated that
> the fine blade knife was unable to attack against hardened/vehicle armor...I
> don't think the diamond coating would work real well-AFAIK, diamonds are
> kinda brittle (I think you can smash one with a hammer) and I don't think it
> would stand up to the force of a melee blow against armor...the other thing
> is, how would you coat a weapon with a diamond crystal (or with diamond
> dust)? It might be better to put diamond dust into the steel of the weapon,
> but I don't believe that would give you any sort of advantages...besides,
> wouldn't it be cheaper to use dikote anyway?

dikoting is diamond coating (get it? diamond koating...dikoting ha ha)
Message no. 10
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 19:15:19 -0800
On Tue, 26 Nov 1996, John Pederson wrote:

> In a message dated 96-11-26 11:55:01 EST, you write:
>
> >In fields of fire, there is reference to the superiority of dikoted
> >weapons over the cougar fine blade knife because of their anti-armor
> >capability, but as far as I know, that is never stated in shadowtech.
> >Personnally, it would make also of sence to me....cover a weapon with a
> >thin layer of diamond, it will have a easier time cutting through the
> >softer cermanic and kevlar armor. Does anyone have any reference or ideas
> >or statements made by the people in charge at FASA :-)
> It's been awhile since I looked at that book (and I don't currently have any
> access to it) so if I'm wrong, don't flame me:), but I thought it stated that
> the fine blade knife was unable to attack against hardened/vehicle armor...I
> don't think the diamond coating would work real well-AFAIK, diamonds are
> kinda brittle (I think you can smash one with a hammer) and I don't think it
> would stand up to the force of a melee blow against armor...the other thing

"Diamonds are kinda brittle" !? Ok, what ever...If you can smash one with
a hammer, I don't think you have a diamond. Why do you think they use
synthetic diamonds to tip high-power drills and edge cutting saws?

> is, how would you coat a weapon with a diamond crystal (or with diamond
> dust)? It might be better to put diamond dust into the steel of the weapon,
> but I don't believe that would give you any sort of advantages...besides,
> wouldn't it be cheaper to use dikote anyway?

Suffice it to say that the coating process is scientifically possible.
I'm not an expert (in any sence of the word) on plating techniques, and
wouldn't be able to explain it adequately. Adding diamond dust to the
steel wouldn't really acomplish anything. The goal is to put a hardening
and extremely tough coating on the weapon, which is something that the
Fine Blades molecule-thin edge doesn't do.

>
> John Pederson "God is dead"

~Tim
Message no. 11
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:41:30 -0500
> >
> > >In fields of fire, there is reference to the superiority of dikoted
> > >weapons over the cougar fine blade knife because of their anti-armor
> > >capability, but as far as I know, that is never stated in shadowtech.
> > >Personnally, it would make also of sence to me....cover a weapon with a
> > >thin layer of diamond, it will have a easier time cutting through the
> > >softer cermanic and kevlar armor. Does anyone have any reference or ideas
> > >or statements made by the people in charge at FASA :-)
> > It's been awhile since I looked at that book (and I don't currently have any
> > access to it) so if I'm wrong, don't flame me:), but I thought it stated that
> > the fine blade knife was unable to attack against hardened/vehicle armor...I
> > don't think the diamond coating would work real well-AFAIK, diamonds are
> > kinda brittle (I think you can smash one with a hammer) and I don't think it
> > would stand up to the force of a melee blow against armor...the other thing
>
> "Diamonds are kinda brittle" !? Ok, what ever...If you can smash one with
> a hammer, I don't think you have a diamond. Why do you think they use
> synthetic diamonds to tip high-power drills and edge cutting saws?
>
> > is, how would you coat a weapon with a diamond crystal (or with diamond
> > dust)? It might be better to put diamond dust into the steel of the weapon,
> > but I don't believe that would give you any sort of advantages...besides,
> > wouldn't it be cheaper to use dikote anyway?
>
> Suffice it to say that the coating process is scientifically possible.
> I'm not an expert (in any sence of the word) on plating techniques, and
> wouldn't be able to explain it adequately. Adding diamond dust to the
> steel wouldn't really acomplish anything. The goal is to put a hardening
> and extremely tough coating on the weapon, which is something that the
> Fine Blades molecule-thin edge doesn't do.
>
Not only is it possible, it is in the process of being developed (has been
for a couple years, don't know if it is commercially workable yet) The
process involves blowing (I think, if I can remember) a heated mixture of
hydrogen and methane over the object to be "dikoted". Through some
complecated chemical reaction beyond my comprehension (and some voodoo
magic) a thin layer of diamond is grown on the object. Read about in
Discover magazine a year or so ago if anyone is interested.
Message no. 12
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons -Reply
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:48:40 -0500
>"Diamonds are kinda brittle" !? Ok, what ever...If you can smash one with a
>hammer, I don't think you have a diamond. Why do you think they use
>synthetic diamonds to tip high-power drills and edge cutting saws?

No, the original poster was correct, diamonds are hard but not resiliant. The
diamond tips for tools are diamond dust embeded into metal. The diamonds add
hardness, the metal resiliancy.

You most definitely can smash a diamond into dust with a hammer, I've seen it
done (on TV).

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 13
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons -Reply
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:26:13 -0500
> >"Diamonds are kinda brittle" !? Ok, what ever...If you can smash one
with a
> >hammer, I don't think you have a diamond. Why do you think they use
> >synthetic diamonds to tip high-power drills and edge cutting saws?
>
> No, the original poster was correct, diamonds are hard but not resiliant. The
> diamond tips for tools are diamond dust embeded into metal. The diamonds add
> hardness, the metal resiliancy.
>
> You most definitely can smash a diamond into dust with a hammer, I've seen it
> done (on TV).

This is true, what one needs to consider is that the diamond layer is not
thick. Probably only a few hundred atoms thick. That also might explain
why there has been some problems with the dikoting disappearing over time.
The hydrocarbon just sublimates.
Message no. 14
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:17:58 +0000
In message <Pine.GSO.3.93.961126190509.16170B-100000@***>, Tim Cooper
<tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU> writes
>"Diamonds are kinda brittle" !? Ok, what ever...If you can smash one with
>a hammer, I don't think you have a diamond. Why do you think they use
>synthetic diamonds to tip high-power drills and edge cutting saws?

Diamonds are indeed brittle. They're also very, very, hard. This means
they make superb cutting tools, but you have to be very careful with
interrupted cuts, heavy feed, shock and vibration, et cetera. They're
also prone to trouble if they get too hot, since - being merely solid
carbon - they oxidise rather readily. Diamonds burn just as well as coal
does, because they're chemically identical.


--
"There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy."
Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 15
From: John Pederson <Canthros@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 22:30:20 -0500
In a message dated 96-11-26 21:09:43 EST, you write:

>dikoting is diamond coating (get it? diamond koating...dikoting ha ha)
>
>

<Shrug>

John Pederson "God is dead"
canthros@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to 1900)
lobo1@****.com "Nietzsche is dead"
http://members.gnn.com/lenoj/johns.htm -God (everlasting to everlasting)

"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Message no. 16
From: John Pederson <Canthros@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons -Reply
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:51:14 -0500
In a message dated 96-11-27 10:49:35 EST, you write:

>>"Diamonds are kinda brittle" !? Ok, what ever...If you can smash one
with
a
>>hammer, I don't think you have a diamond. Why do you think they use
>>synthetic diamonds to tip high-power drills and edge cutting saws?
>
>No, the original poster was correct, diamonds are hard but not resiliant.
>The
>diamond tips for tools are diamond dust embeded into metal. The diamonds
add
>hardness, the metal resiliancy.
>
AHA! Vindication!:)
>You most definitely can smash a diamond into dust with a hammer, I've seen
it
>done (on TV).
>
>Double-Domed Mike
The one I've never understood is what would ever possess someone to do
something like that:)

John Pederson "God is dead"
canthros@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to 1900)
lobo1@****.com "Nietzsche is dead"
http://members.gnn.com/lenoj/johns.htm -God (everlasting to everlasting)

"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Message no. 17
From: John Pederson <Canthros@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:51:07 -0500
In a message dated 96-11-26 22:21:37 EST, you write:

>> It's been awhile since I looked at that book (and I don't currently have
>any
>> access to it) so if I'm wrong, don't flame me:), but I thought it stated
>that
>> the fine blade knife was unable to attack against hardened/vehicle
>armor...I
>> don't think the diamond coating would work real well-AFAIK, diamonds are
>> kinda brittle (I think you can smash one with a hammer) and I don't think
>it
>> would stand up to the force of a melee blow against armor...the other
thing
>
>"Diamonds are kinda brittle" !? Ok, what ever...If you can smash one with
>a hammer, I don't think you have a diamond. Why do you think they use
>synthetic diamonds to tip high-power drills and edge cutting saws?

Actually, I remember reading (yes, I realize that something read 2-3 years
back in a magazine article isn't the best reference to base an assumption on,
but...) that early diamond minors would test rocks they believed to be
diamonds by smashing with a hammer: if it broke, it wasn't a diamond....the
article went on to state, however, that quite a few diamonds were probably
lost this way: diamonds were brittle enough to be broken with a hammer.
Remember that the smaller an object gets, the greater the force required to
break it into smaller pieces: it's very easy to break a large rock into
smaller pieces (comparatively), but try breaking that pebble into smaller
bits, it isn't as easy. So, yes, diamonds are very strong, they are also
rather brittle, which is why you could break a larger one with a hammer...and
yes, they are also strong...remember that the synthetic diamonds used in
things like saw blades and drill tips are _much_ smaller than those I was
talking about (I'm sorry that I did not get this across in the original
message), and therefore require a bit more force to break.

>
>> is, how would you coat a weapon with a diamond crystal (or with diamond
>> dust)? It might be better to put diamond dust into the steel of the
weapon,
>> but I don't believe that would give you any sort of advantages...besides,
>> wouldn't it be cheaper to use dikote anyway?
>
>Suffice it to say that the coating process is scientifically possible.

Ah...but would it be practical, that is the question.

>I'm not an expert (in any sence of the word) on plating techniques, and
>wouldn't be able to explain it adequately. Adding diamond dust to the
>steel wouldn't really acomplish anything. The goal is to put a hardening

Did I say it would?

>and extremely tough coating on the weapon, which is something that the
>Fine Blades molecule-thin edge doesn't do.

I didn't say they did. As for my original argument, it was that with the
brittleness of the diamond (which is, I'm sure, debatable) I didn't see it as
likely to work, I figured that the coating would be quickly rendered
ineffective when, upon the first blow, the glaze was cracked or shattered.
Admittedly, I'm in high school, so if one of the people who's taken college
chemistry (or physics, or organic chem, or something beyond basic chemistry:)
wants to contradict me on this, they're welcome to. However, I don't see
that carrying on this argument without either side being able to sufficiently
substantiate their arguments (if you can, forgive me) will accomplish
anything-besides, it'll wind up like that horrendous Unarmed/Armed combat
argument (sorry, discussion:) between two guys with differing opinions...the
guy who started this thread said that dikote _was_ a diamond coating (doesn't
explain why he started the thread, though)...

John Pederson "God is dead"
canthros@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to 1900)
lobo1@****.com "Nietzsche is dead"
http://members.gnn.com/lenoj/johns.htm -God (everlasting to everlasting)

"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Message no. 18
From: John Pederson <Canthros@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 23:51:08 -0500
In a message dated 96-11-26 22:37:49 EST, you write:

>Not only is it possible, it is in the process of being developed (has been
>for a couple years, don't know if it is commercially workable yet) The
>process involves blowing (I think, if I can remember) a heated mixture of
>hydrogen and methane over the object to be "dikoted". Through some
>complecated chemical reaction beyond my comprehension (and some voodoo
>magic) a thin layer of diamond is grown on the object. Read about in
>Discover magazine a year or so ago if anyone is interested.
Interesting...which month? Last I heard about any of this kinda thing was an
article about two, maybe more, years back in Discover about polymer
coatings-one of which could be used to create a better than razor-edge upon a
knife edge (I think).

John Pederson "God is dead"
canthros@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to 1900)
lobo1@****.com "Nietzsche is dead"
http://members.gnn.com/lenoj/johns.htm -God (everlasting to everlasting)

"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Message no. 19
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 09:50:24 -0800
On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, John Pederson wrote:

> In a message dated 96-11-26 22:21:37 EST, you write:
>

[snip other diamond stuff]

> >"Diamonds are kinda brittle" !? Ok, what ever...If you can smash one
with
> >a hammer, I don't think you have a diamond. Why do you think they use
> >synthetic diamonds to tip high-power drills and edge cutting saws?
>
> Actually, I remember reading (yes, I realize that something read 2-3 years
> back in a magazine article isn't the best reference to base an assumption on,
> but...) that early diamond minors would test rocks they believed to be
> diamonds by smashing with a hammer: if it broke, it wasn't a diamond....the
> article went on to state, however, that quite a few diamonds were probably
> lost this way: diamonds were brittle enough to be broken with a hammer.
> Remember that the smaller an object gets, the greater the force required to
> break it into smaller pieces: it's very easy to break a large rock into
> smaller pieces (comparatively), but try breaking that pebble into smaller
> bits, it isn't as easy. So, yes, diamonds are very strong, they are also
> rather brittle, which is why you could break a larger one with a hammer...and
> yes, they are also strong...remember that the synthetic diamonds used in
> things like saw blades and drill tips are _much_ smaller than those I was
> talking about (I'm sorry that I did not get this across in the original
> message), and therefore require a bit more force to break.
>

Fair enough. I've never actually done it, but I'll concede.


[snip more stuff]

> >Suffice it to say that the coating process is scientifically possible.
>
> Ah...but would it be practical, that is the question.

Well, practical in its use or practical doing it (i.e. see the horendous
cost, after Character creation..)?

>
> >I'm not an expert (in any sence of the word) on plating techniques, and
> >wouldn't be able to explain it adequately. Adding diamond dust to the
> >steel wouldn't really acomplish anything. The goal is to put a hardening
>
> Did I say it would?

Did I say you said it would? :) [your right, you didn't..my goof..]

>
> >and extremely tough coating on the weapon, which is something that the
> >Fine Blades molecule-thin edge doesn't do.
>
> I didn't say they did. As for my original argument, it was that with the
> brittleness of the diamond (which is, I'm sure, debatable) I didn't see it as
> likely to work, I figured that the coating would be quickly rendered
> ineffective when, upon the first blow, the glaze was cracked or shattered.
> Admittedly, I'm in high school, so if one of the people who's taken college
> chemistry (or physics, or organic chem, or something beyond basic chemistry:)
> wants to contradict me on this, they're welcome to. However, I don't see
> that carrying on this argument without either side being able to sufficiently

[snip the mere mention of the (un)armed combat thread and useless arguing]

I'm not a chemist either, and for me it basically boils down to the fact
that FASA thought it a desent enough concept to publish it, so I can
accept it. If you want to introduce the idea that it'll wear off, by all
means go for it! I can certainly see that..also a great way to soak the
player's excess nuyen (check out that street index!). The only draw back
(in my mind) is that it's more things for the GM to keep track of, and
frankly, the fewer of those that don't directly impact the story, the
better IMHO.

Oh, BTW how large an area do you interpret the base cost covers? I've had
people try to tell me that it covered a 100cm x 100cm area for only 1000
(times SI). I take 100 cm^2 to mean a 10 x 10 cm area..and inforce it
strictly, so that a simple and small knife takes 10,000 (including SI) and
larger things (snap-blades = 30,000)...oh boy, you better've been saving
for a while.

>
> John Pederson "God is dead"
> canthros@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to 1900)
> lobo1@****.com "Nietzsche is dead"
> http://members.gnn.com/lenoj/johns.htm -God (everlasting to everlasting)
>
> "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
>

~Tim
Message no. 20
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 13:53:50 EST
>Oh, BTW how large an area do you interpret the base cost covers? I've
>had
>people try to tell me that it covered a 100cm x 100cm area for only
>1000
>(times SI). I take 100 cm^2 to mean a 10 x 10 cm area..and inforce it
>strictly, so that a simple and small knife takes 10,000 (including SI)
>and
>larger things (snap-blades = 30,000)...oh boy, you better've been
>saving
>for a while.

Works for me. That's what I'd assumed myself, I just hadn't bothered to
do any of the multipication (Yikes! that's expensive. But then, that's
the idea:)

John Pederson "God is dead"
canthros@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to
1900)
lobo1@****.com "Nietzsche is dead"
http://members.gnn.com/lenoj/johns.htm -God (everlasting to everlasting)
Only dead fish swim with the stream
Message no. 21
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 12:36:58 +0100
Tim Cooper said on 9:50/29 Nov 96...

> Oh, BTW how large an area do you interpret the base cost covers? I've had
> people try to tell me that it covered a 100cm x 100cm area for only 1000
> (times SI). I take 100 cm^2 to mean a 10 x 10 cm area..and inforce it
> strictly, so that a simple and small knife takes 10,000 (including SI) and
> larger things (snap-blades = 30,000)...oh boy, you better've been saving
> for a while.

100 cm^2 is a 10x10 cm area, it's simple maths: 10 x 10 = 100. An area of
100 cm x 100 cm = 10,000 cm^2, which would cost you a base 100,000 nuyen
to get dikoted.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And so am I.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 22
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:23:28 -0500
>
> >Not only is it possible, it is in the process of being developed (has been
> >for a couple years, don't know if it is commercially workable yet) The
> >process involves blowing (I think, if I can remember) a heated mixture of
> >hydrogen and methane over the object to be "dikoted". Through some
> >complecated chemical reaction beyond my comprehension (and some voodoo
> >magic) a thin layer of diamond is grown on the object. Read about in
> >Discover magazine a year or so ago if anyone is interested.
> Interesting...which month? Last I heard about any of this kinda thing was an
> article about two, maybe more, years back in Discover about polymer
> coatings-one of which could be used to create a better than razor-edge upon a
> knife edge (I think).

Sorry, can't remember. Been a little while. Also read about the
development of a quantem-designed material that is harder than diamond.
Unfortunately, the scientists haven't developed an effective way of
manufacturing it yet.
Message no. 23
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Dikoted Weapons
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:15:41 +0100
>
>Oh, BTW how large an area do you interpret the base cost covers? I've had
>people try to tell me that it covered a 100cm x 100cm area for only 1000
>(times SI). I take 100 cm^2 to mean a 10 x 10 cm area..and inforce it
>strictly, so that a simple and small knife takes 10,000 (including SI) and
>larger things (snap-blades = 30,000)...oh boy, you better've been saving
>for a while.


Mathaatically absolutely correct

Further Reading

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