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Message no. 1
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:55:36 -0500
No, not a trick with a dirty mirror ... a dirty trick with a (hopefully
clean) mirror.

If you point a mirror at a mage and cast Mask (not Physical Mask) on it
to make it look like the mage's enemy, (Assuming the mage doesn't notice
the illusion), what happens when he casts a Combat Spell at the mirror?

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Long hair eliminates the need for barbers" -- Einstein

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Message no. 2
From: Rick J Federle <griffinhq@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:54:24 -0400
On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:55:36 -0500 "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM> writes:
>No, not a trick with a dirty mirror ... a dirty trick with a
>(hopefully clean) mirror.
>
>If you point a mirror at a mage and cast Mask (not Physical Mask) on
>it to make it look like the mage's enemy, (Assuming the mage doesn't
>notice the illusion), what happens when he casts a Combat Spell at the
>mirror?
>
A Mask spell won't affect a mirror (or any other non-living thing
either). A Mask spel will only work on something alive. And a Combat
Spell will attack a mirror as an inanimate object. (via Object
Resistance Table)



*************************************************************************
*******************

"These are my shadows, chummer. If you want to work here, you deal with
me."
-Hunter

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Message no. 3
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 03:04:41 +0200
And so it came to happen that D. Ghost wrote:
----------
> No, not a trick with a dirty mirror ... a dirty trick with a (hopefully
> clean) mirror.
>
> If you point a mirror at a mage and cast Mask (not Physical Mask) on it
> to make it look like the mage's enemy, (Assuming the mage doesn't notice
> the illusion), what happens when he casts a Combat Spell at the mirror?

The Mage tries (subcounscisly) to attune to the Aura. There is no real
Target, no real one of course. He tries to throw the spell at the Target,
the spell fizzles as it has no target, no aura to attune to as he sees
something that is not there. Its the same with the Illusion of a Mirror
were ther is someone displayed in, just an illusuíon nothing real. I
understand, one might could think that there is this mirror and as you can
cast spells through that medium the spell would slam back at him. But that
would seem illogical as he would (IF he sees past the Illusion and sees his
aura) attune to his aura and giving himself that nasty 8D Manabolt.
Something different now with the Fireball as this is (if I remember
correctly) a physical Maniüpulationspell. The Mage sees his archenemy,
casts the Fireball, the Target (the Mirror) gets blown to mirrorheaven and
everything that is in the area of affect.
Thats IMO and it seems logical, doesn't it?

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 4
From: Mark Peterson <talos187@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:01:05 -0700
Rick J Federle wrote:
>
> On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:55:36 -0500 "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
writes:
> >No, not a trick with a dirty mirror ... a dirty trick with a
> >(hopefully clean) mirror.
> >
> >If you point a mirror at a mage and cast Mask (not Physical Mask) on
> >it to make it look like the mage's enemy, (Assuming the mage doesn't
> >notice the illusion), what happens when he casts a Combat Spell at the
> >mirror?
> >

Reminds me of laser tag. You pop around a corner to see the glowing
lights of a target and fire away, only to find out it was a mirror. And
at least for laser tag, yeah, it worked -- I killed myself many times.
--

peace be thy path,

talos landone
Message no. 5
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 03:25:36 +0200
And so it came to happen that Christopher Rick J Federle wrote:
----------
> On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:55:36 -0500 "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
writes:
> >No, not a trick with a dirty mirror ... a dirty trick with a
> >(hopefully clean) mirror.
> >
> >If you point a mirror at a mage and cast Mask (not Physical Mask) on
> >it to make it look like the mage's enemy, (Assuming the mage doesn't
> >notice the illusion), what happens when he casts a Combat Spell at the
> >mirror?
> >
> A Mask spell won't affect a mirror (or any other non-living thing
> either). A Mask spel will only work on something alive. And a Combat
> Spell will attack a mirror as an inanimate object. (via Object
> Resistance Table)

Yeah, probably that way. But it HAS a great if IMO. So does the mage cast
the Spell at the Object, ake the mirror, or does he try to cast that
drekhot powerbolt at his (illusionary) enemy? And that Mask spell, I'd
assume you could mask an object, just cast a Phantasm or a Tridphantasm
around the area where the Mirror is located. But better don't cast it on a
mirror that hangs neatly on a wall as the other mage would surely ask
himself why his oponent is hanging nearly inside that wall. Anyhow, thats
how you could get this Mask on an object. Even though, I bet the Mask
Object Spell will be in MitS.

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 6
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:54:13 -0500
On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:54:24 -0400 Rick J Federle <griffinhq@****.COM>
writes:
>On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:55:36 -0500 "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM> writes:
>>No, not a trick with a dirty mirror ... a dirty trick with a
>>(hopefully clean) mirror.
>>
>>If you point a mirror at a mage and cast Mask (not Physical Mask) on
>>it to make it look like the mage's enemy, (Assuming the mage doesn't
>>notice the illusion), what happens when he casts a Combat Spell at the
>>mirror?

> A Mask spell won't affect a mirror (or any other non-living
thing
>either). A Mask spel will only work on something alive.

You know ... It doesn't out-and-out say it but the description does imply
it ... So let's forget about the particular spell used but instead just
say a mana illusion was created.

>And a Combat
>Spell will attack a mirror as an inanimate object. (via Object
>Resistance Table)

Why? A mage can use a mirror to synch with an aura so why wouldn't the
mage try to synch with the enemy's aura and instead wind up synching with
his own aura?

BTW, will the mage know if he unitentionally synch's with his own aura
(as above, for example)?

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Long hair eliminates the need for barbers" -- Einstein

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Message no. 7
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 23:28:57 -0400
Quoting D. Ghost (dghost@****.COM):
> Why? A mage can use a mirror to synch with an aura so why wouldn't the
> mage try to synch with the enemy's aura and instead wind up synching with
> his own aura?
>
> BTW, will the mage know if he unitentionally synch's with his own aura
> (as above, for example)?
>

If the mage could see his target in the mirror, he could use
that as line of sight, to establish a synch on its aura.
However, he can't see himself (or anything else) in the mirror,
because it's hidden by the spell. There's nothing intrinsicly special about
a mirror that would cause it to reflect a combat spell - only if he was
using it to target would it make a difference what the object is. It's a
visual property, and the visual illusion removes it.
And yes, I assume that a mage will always recognize his own aura.

--Sean
--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 8
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:07:00 +0100
And verily, did D. Ghost hastily scribble thusly...
|
|No, not a trick with a dirty mirror ... a dirty trick with a (hopefully
|clean) mirror.
|
|If you point a mirror at a mage and cast Mask (not Physical Mask) on it
|to make it look like the mage's enemy, (Assuming the mage doesn't notice
|the illusion), what happens when he casts a Combat Spell at the mirror?

The mirror takes damage. Simple.
You have to willingly cast spells at peoples reflections for them to have
any effect ON the reflections.

(The mage is synching his aura with the mirror, not things viewed IN the
mirror).

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 9
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:23:07 -0400
On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, D. Ghost wrote:

->No, not a trick with a dirty mirror ... a dirty trick with a (hopefully
->clean) mirror.
->
->If you point a mirror at a mage and cast Mask (not Physical Mask) on it
->to make it look like the mage's enemy, (Assuming the mage doesn't notice
->the illusion), what happens when he casts a Combat Spell at the mirror?

Mask wouldn't affect a mirror in that respect. It might make it
look opaque, but making a false image appear in the mirror is more like an
illusion spell. However, assuming it was an illusion spell cast on the
mirror and the enemy mage casts the spell at the mirror trying to nail mr.
deceiving mage, mr. mirror goes boom because that's what the enemy mage
actually attuned auras with.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 10
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 22:35:26 -0700
:No, not a trick with a dirty mirror ... a dirty trick with a (hopefully
:clean) mirror.
:
:If you point a mirror at a mage and cast Mask (not Physical Mask) on it
:to make it look like the mage's enemy, (Assuming the mage doesn't notice
:the illusion), what happens when he casts a Combat Spell at the mirror?


Actually, a popular use of "mask" in our game is to make a lone
security guard (who hasn't spotted the runners) look like one of the
runners. Provides a distraction and eliminates a guard, all with one low
drain spell. Works great when they know you are there but not where you
are, or you booking it after the run- with any luck, they waste time
capturing the poor fellow. Note that "mask" even covers your voice in
SR3. No mirror required, but it does rely on the other side being a bit
disorganized.

Mongoose
Message no. 11
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:40:48 +1000
> Actually, a popular use of "mask" in our game is to make a lone
>security guard (who hasn't spotted the runners) look like one of the
>runners. Provides a distraction and eliminates a guard, all with one low
>drain spell. Works great when they know you are there but not where you
>are, or you booking it after the run- with any luck, they waste time
>capturing the poor fellow. Note that "mask" even covers your voice in
>SR3. No mirror required, but it does rely on the other side being a bit
>disorganized.

Ummm.... Physical Mask requires a voluntary subject - well did in SR2 at
least. Seems a little strange that you can now cast the spell on whomever
you want. Intentional or errata, that is the question.

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )
Message no. 12
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:38:01 -0700
: Ummm.... Physical Mask requires a voluntary subject - well did in SR2
at
:least. Seems a little strange that you can now cast the spell on
whomever
:you want. Intentional or errata, that is the question.


I hadn't noticed that bit, and it was not my schtick. Maybe it was a
custom illusion. The SR3 version does not require a voluntary target, and
I think that is intentional (really handy for extractions, for example).
Its also LOS. However, the target could reduce the casters successes by
resiting the spell- that is true of all spells. If no resistance
attribute is listed (as in this case, since the target is not seeing
through the illusion, just resisting the casting), use willpower.

Mongoose
Message no. 13
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 04:00:12 +0200
And so it came to happen that ARKHAM wrote:
----------
> > Actually, a popular use of "mask" in our game is to make a lone
> >security guard (who hasn't spotted the runners) look like one of the
> >runners. Provides a distraction and eliminates a guard, all with one
low
> >drain spell. Works great when they know you are there but not where you
> >are, or you booking it after the run- with any luck, they waste time
> >capturing the poor fellow. Note that "mask" even covers your voice in
> >SR3. No mirror required, but it does rely on the other side being a bit
> >disorganized.
>
> Ummm.... Physical Mask requires a voluntary subject - well did in SR2
at
> least. Seems a little strange that you can now cast the spell on
whomever
> you want. Intentional or errata, that is the question.

BTW, has anybody noticed the change in the Drain table for Spirits? The one
that is at the bottom on page 187 of SR3rd. There it states that the Drain
is ALLWAYS Stun even when the Spirits Force is greater than the conjurers
Charisma. Is that intentionally or Errata. Or is it something FASA allways
wanted to fix?

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 14
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 12:09:36 +1000
At 04:00 AM 10/11/98 +0200, you wrote:
>BTW, has anybody noticed the change in the Drain table for Spirits? The one
>that is at the bottom on page 187 of SR3rd. There it states that the Drain
>is ALLWAYS Stun even when the Spirits Force is greater than the conjurers
>Charisma. Is that intentionally or Errata. Or is it something FASA allways
>wanted to fix?

Read on into the section - there's a little tidbit of a rule there
somewhere that says that if the Force of the spirit is greater than the
summoner's Magic Attribute then the Drain becomes physical. Guess that
means there's a reason not to get your conjurer cybered now, eh?

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )
Message no. 15
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:34:42 -0400
On Sun, 11 Oct 1998, Bob Tockley wrote:

->At 04:00 AM 10/11/98 +0200, you wrote:
->>BTW, has anybody noticed the change in the Drain table for Spirits? The one
->>that is at the bottom on page 187 of SR3rd. There it states that the Drain
->>is ALLWAYS Stun even when the Spirits Force is greater than the conjurers
->>Charisma. Is that intentionally or Errata. Or is it something FASA allways
->>wanted to fix?
->
-> Read on into the section - there's a little tidbit of a rule there
->somewhere that says that if the Force of the spirit is greater than the
->summoner's Magic Attribute then the Drain becomes physical. Guess that
->means there's a reason not to get your conjurer cybered now, eh?

As a player of many a conjuring adept who tried to understand why
NOT to bring my magic rating down to a 1 and still conjure spirits, my
reply to this is YES! YES! YES! (Herbal Essence shampoo, sorry, happens
every time.) This makes MUCH more sense now...

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 16
From: Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 23:24:39 -0400
At 04:00 AM 10-11-98 +0200, you wrote:
>
>BTW, has anybody noticed the change in the Drain table for Spirits? The one
>that is at the bottom on page 187 of SR3rd. There it states that the Drain
>is ALLWAYS Stun even when the Spirits Force is greater than the conjurers
>Charisma. Is that intentionally or Errata. Or is it something FASA allways
>wanted to fix?
>
>--->Steadfast

Now, if the spirit's Force exceeds the summoner's Magic rating, the damage
is physical. If less or equal, it's stun. Damage level is based on
Charisma. This brings Conjuring drain in line with Sorcery drain, and
gives conjurers another reason to worry about their Magic ratings.

Starjammer | Una salus victus nullam sperare salutem.
starjammer@**********.com | "The one hope of the doomed is not to hope
Marietta, GA | for safety." --Virgil, The Aeneid
Message no. 17
From: Sempai Arishu <radowshun@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Dirty Mirror trick
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:50:50 PDT
Umm hang on....if the mirror has an illusion on it the mage would
be able to SEE the mirror, which is the important bit, so the spell
would fizzle, just like if you threw a spell at any other illusion.
Sempai

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