Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Disguise :o{
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:54:03 -0500
I want to know what you think about this:
Disguise (Intelligence)
An Active skill covering the use of make, clothing, and/or props to
make the user, someone else, or something else appear as someone/thing
else. This skill covers the visual facade only. Others skills may be
neccissary to complete the illusion.
Default: Intelligence attribute.

Gear: Availability Weight Cost Street Index Legality
Disguise Kit. Always* 4 200 ? Legal*

Disguise Kit: basically a glorified Halloween make-up set (hence the
availability of always & legality code of legal.). After each use, roll
1d6. On a roll of 1, some of the supplies have run out. GM controls the
details but replacement supplies should cost 10-50 nuyen and have the
same availability & Street Index as the Kit itself.

Sound good?

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 2
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:52:44 -0400
On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Alfredo B Alves wrote:

->I want to know what you think about this:
->Disguise (Intelligence)
<cut remainder>
Sounds good, but I'd call it 'Stage Makeup' instead. It may not
go 'in theme' with SR, but that's primarily what Disguise would be used
for.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 3
From: Thomas Charron <thomascharron@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:42:59 PDT
>From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
>Subject: Disguise :o{

>I want to know what you think about this:
>Disguise (Intelligence)
> An Active skill covering the use of make, clothing, and/or props to
>make the user, someone else, or something else appear as someone/thing
>else. This skill covers the visual facade only. Others skills may be
>neccissary to complete the illusion.

Hrm.. I LIKE it.. Perhaps some sort of acting skill as well,
(Acting) Impersination (5) 7, to help 'complete' the illusion.. This
sort of skill could be used by itself as well, in eventssuch as those
used by hackers of today.. IE:

"Hello, JoeShmoe MegaCorp Security.."

(Sexy Voice)"Hey, This is Betty down in accounting.. I can't for the
LIFE of me remember what my password is.. (Ditsy undertone thrown in..)
There are SO many to remember these days, for cryin' out loud, I'd
imagine I'm not the only one.."

"Actually Ma'am, you are.."

"Oh.. (sigh) I'm embaressed.. Could you help me outthis once.. I
mean later I can come up and show you my ID and stuff, but I REALLY need
to get in and get this finished up.. COuld you set my password to
expire in a few hours or something, till I can make it up there.."

"(Sigh) I guess so, but you have to get up here by lunch to change it
on a more official note.. Password is 74jsgfyrhh.."

"Oh thanks.. I'll be up, I promise.. You just saved me a bunch, I'll
be up in a few.. Thanks.."

;-P



---
Thomas Charron
thomascharron@*******.com - Address for ShadowRN mail..
tcharron@*******.ups.com - Other stuff..

"Lemme get this strait, your married with
2 kids, and you take time every onceand a while
to sit around with a bunch of other guys and make
believe??"

- Buddy at work..


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 4
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:39:51 -0400
Thomas Charron wrote:
>
> "Hello, JoeShmoe MegaCorp Security.."
>
> (Sexy Voice)"Hey, This is Betty down in accounting.. I can't for the
> LIFE of me remember what my password is.. (Ditsy undertone thrown in..)
> There are SO many to remember these days, for cryin' out loud, I'd
> imagine I'm not the only one.."

I honestly don't see this tactic working in 2060. It's old *now*, and
plenty of IT departments have stricter requirements about how passwords
are issued. Megacorp Matrix security divisions would be under *express*
orders not to divulge or reissue a password without in-person verification
of an employee's identity, and probably orders from that employee's
supervisor.

The reverse tactic (call up the secretary: "Yes, Ms. Ditz, we're with
Matrix Maintenance down in 22A, and we need your password so we can
revalidate your component document verification index") might still work
*very* occasionally, but even the secretaries would be indoctrinated
against this sort of thing. If someone actually gave a password to you
like this, he/she would probably be fired. (Whether that would bother
most shadowrunners is another question.)


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 5
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:44:52 -0400
Steve Eley wrote:
> The reverse tactic (call up the secretary: "Yes, Ms. Ditz, we're with
> Matrix Maintenance down in 22A, and we need your password so we can
> revalidate your component document verification index") might still work
> *very* occasionally, but even the secretaries would be indoctrinated
> against this sort of thing. If someone actually gave a password to you
> like this, he/she would probably be fired. (Whether that would bother
> most shadowrunners is another question.)
>
So, just handle it a little differently "Ms. Ditz? We've been having
some problems corelating data transfer efficiencies across the
department. I'm sending an automatic testing program to your email
account now - would you mind running it so that we can verify that
everything's working alright?"

Trojans are easy. Sending things to people is easy (you just have to
forge the return address). Then it just needs a bit of social
engineering and you're in.

James Ojaste
Message no. 6
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:55:27 -0400
At 12:39 PM 9/2/98 -0400, you wrote:

>I honestly don't see this tactic working in 2060. It's old *now*, and
>plenty of IT departments have stricter requirements about how passwords
>are issued. Megacorp Matrix security divisions would be under *express*
>orders not to divulge or reissue a password without in-person verification
>of an employee's identity, and probably orders from that employee's
>supervisor.
>
>The reverse tactic (call up the secretary: "Yes, Ms. Ditz, we're with
>Matrix Maintenance down in 22A, and we need your password so we can
>revalidate your component document verification index") might still work
>*very* occasionally, but even the secretaries would be indoctrinated
>against this sort of thing. If someone actually gave a password to you
>like this, he/she would probably be fired. (Whether that would bother
>most shadowrunners is another question.)

I don't know about this. All of the IT departments have very strict
guidlines about how they handle passwords. All of the computer training
covers procedures about your password and about not giving it out. Express
orders not to do for fear of getting fired. And it still happens.

There was an article in PC Week a few weeks ago that did an interview with
the guy who invented firewalls (not in front of me so I can't remember his
name). In it he said that a bank hired him to do a "Sneakers" type of
consultation on their security. In 2 days he had the access codes to the
main bank computer, and knew most of the private information of any
employee hired in the last 2 years. And he didn't touch a computer to do it
until the end of the second day when he went to verify everything. He got
all of this information through "social hacking" without raising one alarm.

Sommers, BABY 932
"Hey, this is better than actually getting some work done."
Message no. 7
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{ -Reply
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:09:02 -0400
<SNIP Password, easy to get>
We've had this debate before. And I think we may
eventually move away from passwords as we know them. IMHO
of course. Anybody seen gattaca? Instead of a password all
you need is your DNA, retinal scan, etc etc. Sure I can cut
off somebodies hand, kidnap them etc, but its much easier
then guessing people's passwords. Besides unless someone
enforces complicated passwords, most people will have ones
that are ludicrously easy to guess/break, if you have any
information on the person at all.
Hmm..what does this have to do with disguise..oh yeah
impersonating people to get passwords, never mind.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 378-1939
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633
Message no. 8
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 14:23:39 -0400
At 08:54 PM 9/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I want to know what you think about this:
>Disguise (Intelligence)

Makes sense, but isn't Disguise a specialization under Stealth? I don't
know that it makes sense to me, but I'm pretty sure that's the way it is in
SR3, at least according to the complaints of one of my players (and I
haven't honestly had time to even think about it or verify it).

But this separate skill idea of yours would probably make that same player
very happy.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 9
From: Callisto <bginc@**********.NL>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:00:44 +0200
Date sent: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:52:44 -0400
Send reply to: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET

> On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Alfredo B Alves wrote:
>
> ->I want to know what you think about this:
> ->Disguise (Intelligence)
> <cut remainder>
> Sounds good, but I'd call it 'Stage Makeup' instead. It may not
> go 'in theme' with SR, but that's primarily what Disguise would be used
> for.

As for the other stuff, everybody keeps going on about passwords,
who needs passwords? Watch as the scene unfolds:

Mr. Angel Archer (Voodoo Shaman) walks upto Silvan Information
Technologies (small time publisher), physically masked as one of
the editors. He says to the guards that he has a cold (he's an orc,
editor was an elf) and forgot his keys on his way to a party. Guards
give him key, he and two friends go up, go into the offices, break
open all the safes and retrieve their manuscript from Ehran, plus an
extra 600.000 or so nuyen, and merrily walk out the door again
after dropping of the key at the guards (which seriously pissed off
Gurth, since this wasn't the plan at all *evil player grin*).

With a non-magical character, just replace the masking by your
make-up bit, add one vocal enhancement (secondary pattern), an
earrecorder and some headware memory, and you can imitate
practically anybody, as long as no one checks out your aura.

And to all of you who strive to become an evil GM: being an evil
player is also a lot of fun :)


Callisto

"Love is a trick that nature plays to get us to reproduce,
I want no part of it."

bginc@**********.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/bginc

----------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------------
Version 3.1
GCS/P d- s: a--- C++ U--- P! L E-- W+++ N-- o--
K- w+ O- M- V? PS+ PE- Y PGP- t++(+++) 5+ X+
R+(++) tv++ b+ DI- D--- G e h! r---(!r) y--
------------------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
INCUBATED INTO THE FIRST CHURCH OF THE SCWOOSHY BALL
ON 21/5/1998.
"bOB, I know you wanna see Bob, but BOb said that B0B had
to pick up BoB from his scanning session with boB."
--------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 10
From: "<Alfredo B Alves>" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:53:54 EDT
On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 14:23:39 -0400 Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM> writes:
>At 08:54 PM 9/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>I want to know what you think about this:
>>Disguise (Intelligence)
>
>Makes sense, but isn't Disguise a specialization under Stealth? I don't
>know that it makes sense to me, but I'm pretty sure that's the way it is
in
>SR3, at least according to the complaints of one of my players (and I
>haven't honestly had time to even think about it or verify it).
>
>But this separate skill idea of yours would probably make that same
player
>very happy.
>
>Erik J.
<SNIP Sig>

Nope. I checked there first because if it was in SR3, it would have
likely have been stuck under Stealth ... :)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 11
From: "<Alfredo B Alves>" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:53:54 EDT
On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:52:44 -0400 David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
writes:
>On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Alfredo B Alves wrote:

>->I want to know what you think about this:
>->Disguise (Intelligence)
><cut remainder>
> Sounds good, but I'd call it 'Stage Makeup' instead. It may not
>go 'in theme' with SR, but that's primarily what Disguise would be used
>for.
>
>Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
<SNIP Sig>

"A rose by any other name ..."

Actually, that's why I gave the "disguise kit" an availability of always
... because it would, IMO, be something that is fairly easy to get and
would be used by many legitimate people.

Disguise is just a common name for that skill ...

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 12
From: Michael Broadwater <neon@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:10:04 -0500
At 12:53 AM 9/3/98 EDT, <Alfredo B Alves> wrote:
>On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 14:23:39 -0400 Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM> writes:
>>At 08:54 PM 9/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>>I want to know what you think about this:
>>>Disguise (Intelligence)
>>
>>Makes sense, but isn't Disguise a specialization under Stealth? I don't
>>know that it makes sense to me, but I'm pretty sure that's the way it is
>in
>>SR3, at least according to the complaints of one of my players (and I
>>haven't honestly had time to even think about it or verify it).

>Nope. I checked there first because if it was in SR3, it would have
>likely have been stuck under Stealth ... :)

Actually:

pg 87 of Sr3 (from the description of Stealth): "The Stealth Skill governs
sneaking around, sleight of hand and eluding a tail. This skill also
covers camouflage and **disguises**.<snipped remainder>"
^^^^^^^^^

It isn't listed as a specialization, but that doesn't mean it isn't one.


Mike Broadwater
Member of the Blackhand, White Wolf's Official Demo Team
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon/
Message no. 13
From: "<Alfredo B Alves>" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:12:28 -0500
On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:10:04 -0500 Michael Broadwater <neon@*******.EDU>
writes:
>At 12:53 AM 9/3/98 EDT, <Alfredo B Alves> wrote:
<SNIP>
>>Nope. I checked there first because if it was in SR3, it would have
>>likely have been stuck under Stealth ... :)

>Actually:
>
>pg 87 of Sr3 (from the description of Stealth): "The Stealth Skill
governs
>sneaking around, sleight of hand and eluding a tail. This skill also
>covers camouflage and **disguises**.<snipped remainder>"
> ^^^^^^^^^
>
>It isn't listed as a specialization, but that doesn't mean it isn't
>one.
>
>
>Mike Broadwater
<SNIP>

Whoops... I just quickly checked the specializations list ... damn. :)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:17:47 +0200
Callisto said on 21:00/2 Sep 98,...

(You might want to add a spoiler space -- there are people on the list who
haven't played the published adventure to which you refer yet. I've left
it out as I'm not giving away too much more than you have already.)

> Mr. Angel Archer (Voodoo Shaman) walks upto Silvan Information
> Technologies (small time publisher), physically masked as one of
> the editors.

I thought it was a standing clock? Oh wait, that wasn't there and then ;)

> He says to the guards that he has a cold (he's an orc,
> editor was an elf) and forgot his keys on his way to a party. Guards
> give him key, he and two friends go up, go into the offices, break
> open all the safes and retrieve their manuscript from Ehran, plus an
> extra 600.000 or so nuyen, and merrily walk out the door again
> after dropping of the key at the guards (which seriously pissed off
> Gurth, since this wasn't the plan at all *evil player grin*).

Not so much pissed me off as it made me try and look for holes in the
plan, which unfortunately the guards didn't find (I made quite a few
Perception rolls, but they didn't see through the spell or the other minor
slip-ups made... :/ ).

Oh yeah, and did you really think you can _keep_ that money? :)

> With a non-magical character, just replace the masking by your
> make-up bit, add one vocal enhancement (secondary pattern), an
> earrecorder and some headware memory, and you can imitate
> practically anybody, as long as no one checks out your aura.

That's the same weakness as a magical disguise, and it's also why it
worked in that particular scenario you used it in -- there was no magical
guard anywhere, so you could get away with it. Although with a spell it's
easier than by physical make-up, especially because the spell will look
more realistic IMHO, when seen up close.

> And to all of you who strive to become an evil GM: being an evil
> player is also a lot of fun :)

I'll let you read what Loki wrote in my BABY (#81, just to piss off those
listmembers keep mentioning their 900-series in their .sigs ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: Thomas Charron <thomascharron@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:24:51 PDT
>From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
>Subject: Re: Disguise :o{
>>
>> "Hello, JoeShmoe MegaCorp Security.."
>
>I honestly don't see this tactic working in 2060. It's old *now*, and
>plenty of IT departments have stricter requirements about how passwords
>are issued. Megacorp Matrix security divisions would be under
*express*
>orders not to divulge or reissue a password without in-person
verification
>of an employee's identity, and probably orders from that employee's
>supervisor.

I have to disagree.. There are many companies that strickly provide
companies with reviews on security measures that attempt to 'break in'
to companies computer systems. This is THE #1 WAY that they get in..
You always have the human factor (Or meta human factor, in some cases
;-P ) that breaks down. Security is only as good as it's weakest link.
There will ALWAYS be the sucker for a pretty voice out there, and
employee's who just don't give a darned about it.. These same companies
also have corp policy against traitors and indecent behavior, think that
stops anything? I've seen situationionswhen I was in the military where
classified information was passed along to those without neccesary
clearence merely becouse of a phone call from someone who had the flex..

>The reverse tactic (call up the secretary: "Yes, Ms. Ditz, we're with
>Matrix Maintenance down in 22A, and we need your password so we can
>revalidate your component document verification index") might still
work
>*very* occasionally, but even the secretaries would be indoctrinated
>against this sort of thing. If someone actually gave a password to you
>like this, he/she would probably be fired. (Whether that would bother
>most shadowrunners is another question.)

Same as above.. It WOULD happen very easily.. There is not ONE
COMPANY in the WORLD that can say they are not vulnerable to the human
factor..


---
Thomas Charron
thomascharron@*******.com - Address for ShadowRN mail..
tcharron@*******.ups.com - Other stuff..

"Lemme get this strait, your married with
2 kids, and you take time every onceand a while
to sit around with a bunch of other guys and make
believe??"

- Buddy at work..


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Disguise :o{, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!