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Message no. 1
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Disney
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:42:05 -0500
>X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3
>Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:58:59 EDT
>Reply-To: TWBurton <TWBurton@***.COM>
>Sender: NPPA Discussion List <NPPA-L@*****.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
>From: TWBurton <TWBurton@***.COM>
>Subject: Re: Disney
>To: NPPA-L@*****.CSV.CMICH.EDU
>
>>Tim and All,
>>
>>Please excuse any ignorance shown by my question but if Disney is
>>incorporated as a Municpal Utility District (MUD) are they not a
>>government enity? What are the laws in Florida and elsewhere? If
>>they are a MUD, are they subject in FL to any state open records or
>>meetings laws? Or the Bill of Rights (the first and fourthh
>>admendments would seen to apply here)? I believe that MUD's are
>>considered subject to the state open records and meetings act here in
>>TX and I would assume that would extend to open censorship of the
>>media by a MUD. Does anyone know for sure?
>>
>>Matthew
>>Texas A&M University
>>NPPA MEMBER #33259
>
>Matthew,
>
>Disney's unique situation is very confusing and it leads to lawsuits.
However,
>the story about the confiscated video tape has nothing to do with their
>special status. That seems to be simply a case of an individual overstepping
>their boundaries. And in the case of "forbidden" pictures or limited access,
>Disney as a corporation is applying their rights as a private business on
>their own property.
>
>On the bigger scene: In 1967 the Florida Legislature approved the creation of
>the Reedy Creek Improvement District. The 24,000-acre district is not
entirely
>owned by Disney, but nearly so. Landowners in the district elect the Reedy
>Creek board and only 50 people live in Reedy Creek - all of them Disney
>employees or spouses who rent tailers owned by Disney. When land not owned by
>Disney has been developed for residential use it has been de-annexed from
>Reedy Creek.
>
>Reedy Creek is not a traditional municipality, but it does control its own
>planning, zoning, transportation, fire protection and utilities. It can
>condemn property while paying for infrastructure improvements by taxing the
>property owners. Nearly all the property is owned by Disney. This allows
>Disney to finance, build and oversee its own development without interference
>from other governments. Disney and Reedy Creek both claim that the
Improvement
>District is independent but most observers say that's as real as Tinker Bell.
>
>The records of Reedy Creek are open, but there was a lawsuit last year where
>the courts decided that the records of Disney's security operation are not
>subject to open records laws. Reedy Creek has, under its charter, the ability
>to hire services from law enforcement agencies such as a local sheriff's
>department but they never have done that, relying instead on Disney security.
>This case was brought by a family whose son was killed in a high speed chase
>on Disney property. The State Attorney's Office and The Orlando Sentinel
>joined the case as interested parties and the Sentinel dropped their
corporate
>attorney when he defended Disney in this trial. The court ruled that Disney
>security, even on the public roads of the Reedy Creek District, is operating
>in the interest of the company and its "guests" and not in the interest of

>public safety and is therefore not required to have open records.
>
>It can be confusing.
>
>Tom Burton
>The Orlando Sentinel
>
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
Message no. 2
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:36:15 +0100
|>>Tim and All,
|>>
|>>Please excuse any ignorance shown by my question but if Disney is
|>>incorporated as a Municpal Utility District (MUD) are they not a
|>>government enity? What are the laws in Florida and elsewhere? If
|>>they are a MUD, are they subject in FL to any state open records or
|>>meetings laws? Or the Bill of Rights (the first and fourthh
|>>admendments would seen to apply here)? I believe that MUD's are
|>>considered subject to the state open records and meetings act here in
|>>TX and I would assume that would extend to open censorship of the
|>>media by a MUD. Does anyone know for sure?

Errrrrm....

What has this got to do with ANYTHING shadowrn related?
It just sort of... popped out of knowwhere like a large drinks bill....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 3
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:40:44 +0100
And verily, did Spike hastily scribble thusly...
|Errrrrm....
|
|What has this got to do with ANYTHING shadowrn related?
|It just sort of... popped out of knowwhere like a large drinks bill....

Well... That's what happens when you've had a few....
The word should, of course, as everyone already knows so I don't know why
I'm bothering to correct myself, nowhere, not knowwhere....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 4
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" <jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:45:31 -0700
----------
> From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
> Date: Thursday, April 23, 1998 4:36 PM
>
> |>>Tim and All,
> |>>
> |>>Please excuse any ignorance shown by my question but if Disney is
> |>>incorporated as a Municpal Utility District (MUD) are they not a
> |>>government enity? What are the laws in Florida and elsewhere? If
> |>>they are a MUD, are they subject in FL to any state open records or
> |>>meetings laws? Or the Bill of Rights (the first and fourthh
> |>>admendments would seen to apply here)? I believe that MUD's are
> |>>considered subject to the state open records and meetings act here in
> |>>TX and I would assume that would extend to open censorship of the
> |>>media by a MUD. Does anyone know for sure?
>
> Errrrrm....
>
> What has this got to do with ANYTHING shadowrn related?
> It just sort of... popped out of knowwhere like a large drinks bill....

I'm guessing t has to do with corporations and legal rights in the real
world, and its similarites to SR. =)
Message no. 5
From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:38:38 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>

<Snip Disney?>
>
>Errrrrm....
>
>What has this got to do with ANYTHING shadowrn related?
>It just sort of... popped out of knowwhere like a large drinks bill....


About the only thing I can think of is that it shows Disney to be one of the
first extraterritorial (Why does that seem wrong somehow?) corps <G>

Wraith
Message no. 6
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:41:48 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 12:36 AM 4/24/98 +0100, Spike wrote:

<<Disney material quoted from previous post deleted>>

>What has this got to do with ANYTHING shadowrn related?
>It just sort of... popped out of knowwhere like a large drinks
bill....

It's a story about how a current day Corp (I don't think Buena Vista
Entertainment qualifies as a megacorp just yet) has achieved a small
level of pseudo-extrateritoriality by exploiting loopholes in
Florida's legal system.

And besides, what sick, evil GM hasn't wanted to send the runners on a
Disney Run [tm]? In fact, my co-GM and I are including a Disney Run
[tm] as one of the chapters in our huge-ass campaign that we're
running this summer.

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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
Message no. 7
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:35:45 -0500
At 12:36 AM 98-04-24 +0100, you wrote:
>|>>Tim and All,
>|>>
>|>>Please excuse any ignorance shown by my question but if Disney is
>|>>incorporated as a Municpal Utility District (MUD) are they not a
>|>>government enity? What are the laws in Florida and elsewhere? If
>|>>they are a MUD, are they subject in FL to any state open records or
>|>>meetings laws? Or the Bill of Rights (the first and fourthh
>|>>admendments would seen to apply here)? I believe that MUD's are
>|>>considered subject to the state open records and meetings act here in
>|>>TX and I would assume that would extend to open censorship of the
>|>>media by a MUD. Does anyone know for sure?
>
>Errrrrm....
>
>What has this got to do with ANYTHING shadowrn related?
>It just sort of... popped out of knowwhere like a large drinks bill....
>--

Actually if the entire post got forwarded (and I don't know if it did) it
basically boils down to Disney has complete legal rights to this area in
Florida. Since shadowrun has corporate extraterritoriality I thought the
list would be interested in the fact that Disney actually all ready has it
to some extent.

SteveD
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
>| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
>|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
>|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
>|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
>|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
>
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
Message no. 8
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:47:07 +1000
Stephen Delear writes:
>Actually if the entire post got forwarded (and I don't know if it did) it
>basically boils down to Disney has complete legal rights to this area in
>Florida. Since shadowrun has corporate extraterritoriality I thought the
>list would be interested in the fact that Disney actually all ready has it
>to some extent.


This is mentioned in Corporate Shadowfiles, where it cites Disney's
FutureLand(tm) community as the first example of corporate
extraterritoriality, well before the Seretech decision.

(Limited extraterritoriality, admittedly, but still some... perhaps they
should have cited it as an example of the first corporate enclave)

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 9
From: Jacob Engstrom <sabredanz@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Disney
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:09:51 EDT
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:47:07 +1000 Robert Watkins
<robert.watkins@******.COM> writes:
>Stephen Delear writes:
>>Actually if the entire post got forwarded (and I don't know if it
>did) it
>>basically boils down to Disney has complete legal rights to this area
>in
>>Florida. Since shadowrun has corporate extraterritoriality I thought
>the
>>list would be interested in the fact that Disney actually all ready
>has it
>>to some extent.

Thanks for posting this. I really enjoyed looking into this. I am trying
to find out exactly how "impervious" they are to the laws of Florida
State.

Now hopfully we can keep discussing this without having to
fight off the off topic Gestapo.

J.T. Engstrom

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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Message no. 10
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Disney
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:40:28 EDT
In a message dated 4/23/98 7:44:36 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
pgettle@********.NET writes:

> And besides, what sick, evil GM hasn't wanted to send the runners on a
> Disney Run [tm]? In fact, my co-GM and I are including a Disney Run
> [tm] as one of the chapters in our huge-ass campaign that we're
> running this summer.
>
Been there, done that...only it was Eurodisney and the tour nearly killed the
decker who hacked the "digital tokens" throughout...

Yes, I was feeling particularly mean at that time...

-K
Message no. 11
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Disney
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:01:13 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 10:40 PM 4/23/98 -0400, K wrote:
>Been there, done that...only it was Eurodisney and the tour nearly
killed the
>decker who hacked the "digital tokens" throughout...
>
>Yes, I was feeling particularly mean at that time...

In ours, we're sending the runners into an arcology that is below
Disney World (currently, there's a gigantic network of tunnels under
all the theme parks, this would be below that).

Disney had sealed the arcology off years ago, because they were having
reactor trouble, and didn't want to risk having anyone live down
there. Unfortunately, vandals, gangers, and squaters have broken in,
and taken residence. Disney doesn't want to risk it's personel to
possible nuclear contamination, and so they just covered up the
problem, and kept a lid
on it, rather than trying to deal with it.

The arcology is overrun with turf wars by the various gang factions,
but there are a few spots of neutral ground. One is a museum of some
of the original animatronic rides that the above ground theme parks
used to be based around. Seems the gangs all want to be able to use
the "It's a Small World Ride" for live target practice.
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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
Message no. 12
From: Russ Myrick <ceedawg@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:11:03 -0500
Spike wrote:

> Errrrrm....
>
> What has this got to do with ANYTHING shadowrn related?
> It just sort of... popped out of knowwhere like a large drinks bill....
>

Well......from 1971 until 1993 Disney has been documented by the FBI, and a few
other sources, as the 2nd largest purchaser of covert electronic serveilence
equipment in the world. Just a little behind Uncle Sam. At one time they had a
fairly extensive arms trade network (impressive catalog), providing fair
competition for Brazil's weapon sales program.

Disney also has the most advanced robotics development program in the private
sector. MIT has several internships at Disney World in that field.

As for being an MUD....yes and no to all things considered gov't. They get to
function like a government with regards to regulations, providing their own law
enforcement, fire department, water & utilities, etc.; but they are not bound by
the same rules regarding disclosure, civil rights, and such. Nor do they get to
levy taxes/tarriffs, maintain a criminal justice system, or military
(officially). There has been some beef in the Florida legislature over the last
few years, because Disney World management has "recommended" certain taxes be
applied to guests & residents at Disney. These have been collected by the county
& state treasuries, then paid directly to Disney.

Disney World has already established an Archology as part of Epcot, a reasonably
stable community of about 5000 people (Their official claim when I was there in
1988). I've forgotten the name that was given to the community, but it is a
recognized township with attendant government bodies there.
Message no. 13
From: Jacob Engstrom <sabredanz@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Disney
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:15:44 EDT
On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:45:28 -0600 Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA> writes:
>At 22:09 23/04/98 EDT, you wrote:
>
>>Thanks for posting this. I really enjoyed looking into >>this. I am
trying to find out exactly how "impervious" they are to the laws of
Florida State.
>
>Keep any discussion relevant to Shadowrun, and discuss it >all you want.

For the record, my message was posted right after someone asked as to
wheather or not this subject was on topic.

>>Now hopfully we can keep discussing this without having >>to fight off
the off topic Gestapo.
>
>I take offense at being called a (member of a) Gestapo.

1) I formally apologize for said remark. I have a tendancy to swear like
a salior and to make up for it I get creative with my "Euphimisims".
Again my sincerest apoligies.
2) While I do not claim that you personally have done this, the amount of
swearing, pissing, moaning, and carrying on done by some people on this
list when trying to get a thread to die can be impressive. It begs
retaliation. The Golden Rule, etc....

>I'm sure most of the rest of GridSec will, too. As will >many of the
listmembers if people toss around Gestapo and the other words that tend
to go with it.
>Were you around the last time someone called another list member a
"Spoiler Nazi"?

No actually, Impressive I take it?

>The Administration and GridSec is here for a reason -- >this is a
Shadowrun list, and the primary discussion point >should always be
Shadowrun.

I concur, see my previous "for the record".

>Whether or not the current discussion about Disney is >appropriate or
not isn't the point.

Point taken.

>The point is that I do not appreciate being called names,
>demeaned, or otherwise shit on for doing *my job*. It is >my job to
Admininstrate this mailing list -- that includes >helping people,
answering posts and other questions, and >informing people and taking
action when list
>policies are violated.

I understand your position. Aside from my poor choice of words (again, my
apologies), Try to see mine (as spelled out in number 2 above).
>If you don't like the way I do my work, feel free to >complain to my
boss --
>Mark Imbracio <mark@******.net>.

I don't intend too. I have no reason to.

>I'm sure my nearly two years of work on
>this list with *zero* official complaints about my style >of
administrating speaks for itself.
>
>-Adam J

Please accept my apology and consider my position,
Please also excuse the lawyer in me coming out,
I reread this and it reads like a letter of intent, sorry.
J.T. Engstrom

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 14
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Disney
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:46:09 +0000
> 1) I formally apologize for said remark. I have a tendancy to swear like
> a salior and to make up for it I get creative with my "Euphimisims".
...
> Please also excuse the lawyer in me coming out,

Man, you DO use nasty language, don't you?

Anyway, this disney stuff is fascinating (I dimly recall the Corp
Shadowfiles referece). Does anyone (besides the ganger-arcology
fellow) have any idea what would have happened to Disney? As I
recall, south florida was annexed into the Carribean League...Is
Disney World (and Reedy Creek) south enough?

[Thus showing my ignorance of the geography of my own country]

-=SwiftOne=-
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 15
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" <jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:26:27 -0700
----------
> From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
> Date: Thursday, April 23, 1998 5:38 PM
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
>
> <Snip Disney?>
> >
> >Errrrrm....
> >
> >What has this got to do with ANYTHING shadowrn related?
> >It just sort of... popped out of knowwhere like a large drinks bill....
>
>
> About the only thing I can think of is that it shows Disney to be one of
the
> first extraterritorial (Why does that seem wrong somehow?) corps <G>
>

Can you imagine having someone from Disney as your Johnson?

"We want you to extract the head cartoonist from 21st Century Drek, and
bomb their animation studios. Our figures show that his talent will
increase our profit margin by 10%. You will be well compensated for your
efforts."
Message no. 16
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Disney
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:38:12 -0500
At 10:09 PM 98-04-23 -0400, you wrote:
>On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:47:07 +1000 Robert Watkins
><robert.watkins@******.COM> writes:
>>Stephen Delear writes:
>>>Actually if the entire post got forwarded (and I don't know if it
>>did) it
>>>basically boils down to Disney has complete legal rights to this area
>>in
>>>Florida. Since shadowrun has corporate extraterritoriality I thought
>>the
>>>list would be interested in the fact that Disney actually all ready
>>has it
>>>to some extent.
>
>Thanks for posting this. I really enjoyed looking into this. I am trying
>to find out exactly how "impervious" they are to the laws of Florida
>State.
>
>Now hopfully we can keep discussing this without having to
>fight off the off topic Gestapo.
>
>J.T. Engstrom

If you come accross anything that's not common knowledge let me know. I
have a couple friends who would love to hear about it.

SteveD
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
Message no. 17
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:35:33 +0200
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:47:07 +1000, Robert Watkins wrote:

>This is mentioned in Corporate Shadowfiles, where it cites Disney's
>FutureLand(tm) community as the first example of corporate
^^^^^^^^^^
Interesting coincidence that this sounds a little like Futureworld
(Title of a film - just now I get the idea that you can use the
Westworld and Futureworld stories quite well in SR... Did anybody try
this?)
Westworld and Futureworld aren't raelly that good, but for some reason
I like them.

Arno
--
Arno Lehmann
arlehma@***.net http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cabana/5274/
arno@*******.ast.uct.ac.za http://pinguin.ast.uct.ac.za
Message no. 18
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Disney
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:19:01 +0200
On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:09:51 EDT, Jacob Engstrom wrote:

>Now hopfully we can keep discussing this without having to
>fight off the off topic Gestapo.

That was a very dumb remark IMNSHO.

Arno
--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************
Message no. 19
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:37:17 +0200
Numer two.

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>Message-Id: <199804241911.MAA15953@*********.cobaltgroup.com>
>From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" <jeremy@***********.com>
>To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
>Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
>Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:08:04 -0700
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Priority: 3
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>



----------
> From: Arno R. Lehmann <arlehma@***.net>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
> Date: Friday, April 24, 1998 11:35 AM
>
> On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:47:07 +1000, Robert Watkins wrote:
>
> >This is mentioned in Corporate Shadowfiles, where it cites Disney's
> >FutureLand(tm) community as the first example of corporate
> ^^^^^^^^^^
> Interesting coincidence that this sounds a little like Futureworld
> (Title of a film - just now I get the idea that you can use the
> Westworld and Futureworld stories quite well in SR... Did anybody try
> this?)
> Westworld and Futureworld aren't raelly that good, but for some reason
> I like them.
>

I'd never thought of that...

Shadowrunners hired to bodyguard a corporate guy on vacation. The
tourist
trap features sophisticated robots that look cunningly human. All guns
in
the place have advanced sensor systems that won't allow a gun to be
fired
at a human.

And one night the robots go mad, and the runners have to extract the
suit
in mostly one piece.

That is just wicked cool.


===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================

--
Arno Lehmann
arlehma@***.net http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cabana/5274/
arno@*******.ast.uct.ac.za http://pinguin.ast.uct.ac.za
Message no. 20
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Disney
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:46:55 -0500
> Shadowrunners hired to bodyguard a corporate guy on vacation. The
tourist
> trap features sophisticated robots that look cunningly human. All guns
in
> the place have advanced sensor systems that won't allow a gun to be
fired
> at a human.
>
> And one night the robots go mad, and the runners have to extract the
suit
> in mostly one piece.
>
> That is just wicked cool.

Sounds like an episode of the Simpsons....

Incidentally, y'all, while I don't know the particulars of your mailers,
check your To: fields before you send your messages. That way, people who
are having trouble with their mailers don't get tons of messages that
should go to the list. And people who are having trouble with their
mailers, find out how to fix them.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn
lasts forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo
the better part of humor."
aka Ellegon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are
crunchy and good with ketchup."
Message no. 21
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Disney
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:30:55 EDT
In a message dated 4/23/98 10:03:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
pgettle@********.NET writes:

<snipped the other part about the "Disney Arcology">

> The arcology is overrun with turf wars by the various gang factions,
> but there are a few spots of neutral ground. One is a museum of some
> of the original animatronic rides that the above ground theme parks
> used to be based around. Seems the gangs all want to be able to use
> the "It's a Small World Ride" for live target practice.
> -
This is an interesting twist I must say, especially since I've been into some
of those accesses. I just wasn't aware they connected -everywhere- within
"Disney County" like you suggest. Or is this a fictional part and I
misinterpreted?

-K
Message no. 22
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Disney
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:13:19 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 12:30 AM 4/25/98 -0400, K wrote:
>This is an interesting twist I must say, especially since I've been
into some
>of those accesses. I just wasn't aware they connected -everywhere-
within
>"Disney County" like you suggest. Or is this a fictional part and I
>misinterpreted?

Basically, the Arcology part is fiction.

- From what I understand of Disney World though, there are about 2-4
levels of sub-levels under each themepark. Not just corridors and
employee rooms/offices either, but also a full network of vehicle
sized tunnels. The statisitic I hear quoted often is that Disney's
private fleet of ambulences can get to any part of the themeparks in
2-3 minutes.

Another thing to keep in mind: most all the trash cans in the
themeparks are actually chutes down to much larger trash bins on the
first sub-level. They were designed like that so that park visitors
would never have to see a trash bag getting changed, or a trash can
overflowing with garbage.

I don't know if they run tunnels between the theme parks, since they
can just hide access roads behind screening fences and foliage.


In my storyline about the arcology, it was built beneath those
sub-levels.
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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
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Message no. 23
From: Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Disney
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:21:41 PDT
Paul Gettle
>
>At 12:30 AM 4/25/98 -0400, K wrote:
>>This is an interesting twist I must say, especially since I've been
>into some
>>of those accesses. I just wasn't aware they connected -everywhere-
>within
>>"Disney County" like you suggest. Or is this a fictional part and I
>>misinterpreted?
>
>Basically, the Arcology part is fiction.
>
>- From what I understand of Disney World though, there are about 2-4
>levels of sub-levels under each themepark. Not just corridors and
>employee rooms/offices either, but also a full network of vehicle
>sized tunnels. The statisitic I hear quoted often is that Disney's
>private fleet of ambulences can get to any part of the themeparks in
>2-3 minutes.
>
>Another thing to keep in mind: most all the trash cans in the
>themeparks are actually chutes down to much larger trash bins on the
>first sub-level. They were designed like that so that park visitors
>would never have to see a trash bag getting changed, or a trash can
>overflowing with garbage.
>
>I don't know if they run tunnels between the theme parks, since they
>can just hide access roads behind screening fences and foliage.
>
>
>In my storyline about the arcology, it was built beneath those
>sub-levels.

Something that might be interesting for some one researching this is a
magazine, I think Wired (www.wired.com), ran a story on behind the
scenes at disney recently. I'll look it up if anyones interested.

-Matthew Waddilove

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