Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	What ? <MCM@***.BRIGHTON.AC.UK>
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Fri, 30 Jul 1993 16:57:00 BST

Message no. 1 I would have though it depends on the situation really. Since corps, public
figure and runners all want privacy.
Doc Wagon use some very heavy firepower to get those gold and Platinium and
Super Platinium card holder out of trouble with little expense spared.
I don't think they would then turn around (due to the money you spend with
them each year) and turn you in unless you've done something most of the city
wants to string you up for.

It wouldn't be good for business.

The lesser card holders may have pay a small fee not to be "remembered" or as
a "extra medical fee".
There is a lot of stuff in the NAGTRF about Doc Wagon ther may be guide lines
there.

-- WHAT

From:	Matt Vanek <aa2239@*******.LORAIN.OBERLIN.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Doc Wagon
Date:	Fri, 30 Jul 1993 13:13:47 -0400

Message no. 2 >
>I would have though it depends on the situation really. Since corps, public
>figure and runners all want privacy.
>Doc Wagon use some very heavy firepower to get those gold and Platinium and
>Super Platinium card holder out of trouble with little expense spared.
>I don't think they would then turn around (due to the money you spend with
>them each year) and turn you in unless you've done something most of the city
>wants to string you up for.
>
>It wouldn't be good for business.

Still, according to NAGRL there are enough people using docwagon that
they would hose a crowd in the hopes of hitting another client. I think, in
general, as long as the runners don't piss anyone at DW off, adn their policy
is high enough, DW will do there best to cover. Remember, DW, is probably
the lonestar's policy as well...

>
>The lesser card holders may have pay a small fee not to be "remembered" or
as
>a "extra medical fee".
They tend not to care about lesser card holders, but yah extra cash
helps in just about every situation i know...

>There is a lot of stuff in the NAGTRF about Doc Wagon ther may be guide lines
>there.
I would look it up, but a friend has my copy...asnnyone wanna look and
tell us?

later,

Iron Claw

--
Even though, after all, it's only natural, | Lcfn:aa2239/Cfn:ab148
I'm Childish | Matt Vanek:
--The Judybats, don't drop the baby | The Iron Claw; aka.
Huh? Nevermind. I donno, I just got here. | Zxquebly Bejru

From:	Armand <stadams@*****.UARK.EDU>
Subject:	DocWagon
Date:	Fri, 30 Jul 1993 12:47:19 -0500

Message no. 3 Of course they wouldn't turn you in... but they WOULD keep a record of the
fact that you had illegal 'ware, and as soon as you ceased to be a customer...

(Now is that good incentive for renewing your contract or what?)

The Raver

From:	Brian Johnson <john0375@****.tc.umn.edu>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon
Date:	Tue, 25 Jun 1996 09:50:34 -0500 (CDT)

Message no. 4 > > Eh? What do you think the Doc Wagon Bracelet does?
> > It acts as a GPS and lifesign reader sending your position to Docwagin
> > central.
And here I thought it was a Panic Button<cellular phone> slaved to a heart
monitor. Or activated by breaking it.

[ Doc Wagon isn't the only one who can home in on a activated bracelet]
GEE AN ACTIVATED BRACELET MEANS THEY'RE HURT ALL READY!

>Keep in mind you can home a missile (or a corporate strike
>team) in on one of those things.

And my targets always wait on a roof hoping to suck that missile down.
WHERE do you get a missile anyway? FBI/NSA/SIOUXSF/GHOSTS/ETC. Should
hunt you down. Not to mention DocWagon to save face.

>From the Co:
"We at DocWagon resent the implication that our data transponder frequencies
are anything but secure, encrypted, and Transmit only when the wearer
TRIGGERS them. Since there is no signal unless the client wants to be
picked up for rescue/resuscitation, there is nothing for you houligans to
track. Mess with one of our transports, and you'll be in a world of hurt.
Autocannons, Combat trained Rigger Pilot, Sometimes Mages or Shamans, and
a medic who's a black belt in Judo. Further, the Intrusion
Countermeasures in our datafiles are extensive, Up to level 8
International Security Standards. <I.E. Renraku/MTC/etc.>"- Dock Rock.
<02:03:31 5/24/54>

Plea:

Does anyone know anything about Neural Nets out there?

Thanks.

From:	"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon
Date:	Tue, 25 Jun 1996 17:28:52 +0100

Message no. 5 >>Keep in mind you can home a missile (or a corporate strike
>>team) in on one of those things.

Yeah, that's supposedly how the Russians killed Dudayev. Homed an anti-
radar missile on the emissions of his cellular phone.

On the other hand, first up you need to know the DocWagon frequencies.
Secondly, you need to make the signal go off - so why not just kill the
guy in the process of breaking his bracelet? And thirdly, you need an
anti-radar missile and something to launch it from. Not exactly street
issue.

Finally, you'd better not want a DocWagon contract of your own, or to
live much longer. DocWagon have large resources and a major vested
interest in messily and publicly eliminating you if you do this, and
acquiring a few HARMs and a plane to launch them from pretty much
eliminates the "low profile untraceable" aspect.

--
"There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy."
Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

From:	wilsonpj@******.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Peter)
Subject:	Re: DocWagon
Date:	Tue, 25 Jun 1996 16:17:00 -0600

Message no. 6 Brian Johnson wrote:

>
>[ Doc Wagon isn't the only one who can home in on a activated bracelet]
>GEE AN ACTIVATED BRACELET MEANS THEY'RE HURT ALL READY!
>

Or they _anticipate_ getting hurt. I called in Doc Wagon as support on one=
occasion. A buddy convinced my mage to accompany him to a meeting with his=
Fixer. It turned out to be an ambush, but fortunately they wanted to talk=
before killing my buddy. The look on their faces when the Retrieval Team=
burst into the bar was priceless. I simply got up and left with the Doc=
Wagon guys, signing off that I had _accidentally_ triggered my bracelet and=
giving the entire team twice the normal payment for answering a false alarm

From:	"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon
Date:	Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:59:15 +0100

Message no. 7 Paul J. Adam said on 17:28/25 Jun 96...

> On the other hand, first up you need to know the DocWagon frequencies.

That should be easy enough to do if you acquire one of their bracelets.

> Secondly, you need to make the signal go off - so why not just kill the
> guy in the process of breaking his bracelet?

Maybe because you want to take out whoever comes when the bracelet goes
off, not the person whose bracelet you activate? If that's the case,
there's no need to make one go off -- a fake signal should do fine as
well. (Just record the signal sent out by the bracelet and broadcast it
again -- if you don't think this is possible you should know there was a
CD last year that had "songs" composed of nothing but illegally recorded
cellular-phone conversations.)

> And thirdly, you need an anti-radar missile and something to launch it
> from. Not exactly street issue.

Not quite.

> Finally, you'd better not want a DocWagon contract of your own, or to
> live much longer. DocWagon have large resources and a major vested
> interest in messily and publicly eliminating you if you do this, and
> acquiring a few HARMs and a plane to launch them from pretty much
> eliminates the "low profile untraceable" aspect.

An aircraft? Why? A ground-mount launcher would work just as well, and
with SR's tech level I think it would be possible to stuff a radar-seeker
into a shoulder-launched missile. You're still going to gt in the news, I
guess, but you won't be as obvious as when you're using a fighter plane.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Opa is geconsumeerd en uit de maatschappij geweerd
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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From:	"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon
Date:	Wed, 26 Jun 1996 13:31:36 +0100

Message no. 8 In message <199606260959.LAA20471@**********.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
<gurth@******.nl> writes
>Paul J. Adam said on 17:28/25 Jun 96...
>
>> On the other hand, first up you need to know the DocWagon frequencies.
>
>That should be easy enough to do if you acquire one of their bracelets.

I'd hazard that - especially at the higher levels - the signals are
coded to some extent, at least to indicate which subscriber(s) logged
calls. You might put out *a* signal, but not *the* signal.

And if these are in the middle of - for instance - mobile phone
territory... The Russians got the Dudayev trick to work because there
aren't many mobile phones in Groznyy (and now there's one less :) ) but
try a similar trick in London or Manhatten...

>> Secondly, you need to make the signal go off - so why not just kill the
>> guy in the process of breaking his bracelet?
>
>Maybe because you want to take out whoever comes when the bracelet goes
>off, not the person whose bracelet you activate? If that's the case,
>there's no need to make one go off -- a fake signal should do fine as
>well. (Just record the signal sent out by the bracelet and broadcast it
>again -- if you don't think this is possible you should know there was a
>CD last year that had "songs" composed of nothing but illegally recorded
>cellular-phone conversations.)

Again, depends if all bracelets use the same squawk.

>> Finally, you'd better not want a DocWagon contract of your own, or to
>> live much longer. DocWagon have large resources and a major vested
>> interest in messily and publicly eliminating you if you do this, and
>> acquiring a few HARMs and a plane to launch them from pretty much
>> eliminates the "low profile untraceable" aspect.
>
>An aircraft? Why? A ground-mount launcher would work just as well

You'd need LOS on the target... at which point why not just use a dumb
HE rocket and use the seeker for more warhead? Or, if you were firing up
in a loft and hoping the missile would reacquire on the way down, you'd
have to truck it out into the open, and firing a missile out of a panel
van does tend to attract attention. Finally, a HARM weighs 800lb, even a
Shrike clocks at 400lb, and these are aircraft missiles: they just don't
work if you "point and light".

Aircraft let you get up higher and get a clear line of sight from a long
way out, far enough that an ARM becomes worthwhile, but you'd still need
so much info on the target that using a laser designator and a few
missiles tracking on that would be simpler and more effective.

>, and
>with SR's tech level I think it would be possible to stuff a radar-seeker
>into a shoulder-launched missile. You're still going to gt in the news, I
>guess, but you won't be as obvious as when you're using a fighter plane.

You could do it, but a lot of the advantages disappear.

--
"There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy."
Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

From:	"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon
Date:	Wed, 26 Jun 1996 13:31:36 +0100

Message no. 9 In message <199606260959.LAA20471@**********.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
<gurth@******.nl> writes
>Paul J. Adam said on 17:28/25 Jun 96...
>
>> On the other hand, first up you need to know the DocWagon frequencies.
>
>That should be easy enough to do if you acquire one of their bracelets.

I'd hazard that - especially at the higher levels - the signals are
coded to some extent, at least to indicate which subscriber(s) logged
calls. You might put out *a* signal, but not *the* signal.

And if these are in the middle of - for instance - mobile phone
territory... The Russians got the Dudayev trick to work because there
aren't many mobile phones in Groznyy (and now there's one less :) ) but
try a similar trick in London or Manhatten...

>> Secondly, you need to make the signal go off - so why not just kill the
>> guy in the process of breaking his bracelet?
>
>Maybe because you want to take out whoever comes when the bracelet goes
>off, not the person whose bracelet you activate? If that's the case,
>there's no need to make one go off -- a fake signal should do fine as
>well. (Just record the signal sent out by the bracelet and broadcast it
>again -- if you don't think this is possible you should know there was a
>CD last year that had "songs" composed of nothing but illegally recorded
>cellular-phone conversations.)

Again, depends if all bracelets use the same squawk.

>> Finally, you'd better not want a DocWagon contract of your own, or to
>> live much longer. DocWagon have large resources and a major vested
>> interest in messily and publicly eliminating you if you do this, and
>> acquiring a few HARMs and a plane to launch them from pretty much
>> eliminates the "low profile untraceable" aspect.
>
>An aircraft? Why? A ground-mount launcher would work just as well

You'd need LOS on the target... at which point why not just use a dumb
HE rocket and use the seeker for more warhead? Or, if you were firing up
in a loft and hoping the missile would reacquire on the way down, you'd
have to truck it out into the open, and firing a missile out of a panel
van does tend to attract attention. Finally, a HARM weighs 800lb, even a
Shrike clocks at 400lb, and these are aircraft missiles: they just don't
work if you "point and light".

Aircraft let you get up higher and get a clear line of sight from a long
way out, far enough that an ARM becomes worthwhile, but you'd still need
so much info on the target that using a laser designator and a few
missiles tracking on that would be simpler and more effective.

>, and
>with SR's tech level I think it would be possible to stuff a radar-seeker
>into a shoulder-launched missile. You're still going to gt in the news, I
>guess, but you won't be as obvious as when you're using a fighter plane.

You could do it, but a lot of the advantages disappear.

--
"There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy."
Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

From:	Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject:	DocWagon
Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:48:20 +0000

Message no. 10 How do you guys run Doc wagon in regard to SINless characters? I
usually say that I require a SIN to get a contract, and that as long
as they ahve a contract and pay for any service up front, Doc wagon
turns a blind eye to everything else (assuming someone isn't paying
them to keep one eye open.)

However, this has resulted in DocWagon picking up some teams in some
obviously incriminating situations. How do you all handle it?

Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie

From:	Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon
Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:43:02 -0500

Message no. 11 At 11:48 AM 9/23/97 +0000, Brett Borger wrote:
# How do you guys run Doc wagon in regard to SINless characters? I
# usually say that I require a SIN to get a contract, and that as long
# as they ahve a contract and pay for any service up front, Doc wagon
# turns a blind eye to everything else (assuming someone isn't paying
# them to keep one eye open.)
#
# However, this has resulted in DocWagon picking up some teams in some
# obviously incriminating situations. How do you all handle it?

Doc Wagon is paid to just heal.
I have made players pay a little extra if they are SINless, or if the Doc
Wagon team could have been paid for what they saw them doing.
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/

From:	Jimpy <lowfyr@***********.COM>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon
Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:50:49 -0500

Message no. 12 Brett Borger wrote:
<snip>
> How do you guys run Doc wagon in regard to SINless characters?
> However, this has resulted in DocWagon picking up some teams in some
> obviously incriminating situations. How do you all handle it?
> Doc Wagon falls under the extraterritoriality bit that many other corps
use. When a patient is in their facility, they remain there until there
are released from care and no one can do a damn thing about it.

However, this is not to say that Lone Star (or other interested
parties) can't wait outside and get them the second they set foot on a
public sidewalk ;)

I don't require the runners to have a SIN (seeing as how that is a
government ID, and they are a corp), but they do get what is more or
less equated to a "customer service number" at doc wagon that allows DW
to track thier movement through their own system. I figure that Doc
Wagon doesn't care where their money comes from, so long as they get
it...without a SIN, they definitely pay UP FRONT for the entire term of
service.

Jim

From:	Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon
Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:30:16 -0800

Message no. 13 At 11:50 9/23/97 -0500, Jimpy wrote:
>Brett Borger wrote:
>> How do you guys run Doc wagon in regard to SINless characters?

>However, this is not to say that Lone Star (or other interested
>parties) can't wait outside and get them the second they set foot on a
>public sidewalk ;)

This is why you want to be a *good* customer who not only pays for
good service in advance but also demonstrates an ability to be very generous--
so maybe you leave with a trauma team and step out somewhere a long
way away from the DocWagon facility. This is why members of DocWagon
response teams have such a large income classified as "tips".

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%
%% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." - me %%

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon
Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:02:56 +0100

Message no. 14 Brett Borger said on 11:48/23 Sep 97...

> How do you guys run Doc wagon in regard to SINless characters? I
> usually say that I require a SIN to get a contract, and that as long
> as they ahve a contract and pay for any service up front, Doc wagon
> turns a blind eye to everything else (assuming someone isn't paying
> them to keep one eye open.)
>
> However, this has resulted in DocWagon picking up some teams in some
> obviously incriminating situations. How do you all handle it?

I play it that DocWagon doesn't care in any way what their clients are
engaging in. They come to pick them up (and nobody else), and take
"appropriate action" against anyone trying to stop them from doing so. If
the client is engaged in a firefight, then DocWagon will enter that fight
as well to extract the client(s), and then leave. They pay no attention to
any criminal activities that go on around them, as long as it doesn't
affect them of course.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zo buurman, ik hier?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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From:	Stefan <casanova@******.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon
Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:39:22 +0000

Message no. 15 > How do you guys run Doc wagon in regard to SINless characters? I
> usually say that I require a SIN to get a contract, and that as long
> as they ahve a contract and pay for any service up front, Doc wagon
> turns a blind eye to everything else (assuming someone isn't paying
> them to keep one eye open.)

Well I require a SIN (or a fake one) to purchase a Doc Wagon
contract. Why ? Well basically cause I don't think that they
officially wanna provide healing services to "badguys" .. but at
pickup they usually recover the injured man and his/her friends to
even if they don't have a contract and afterward they just charge
them loads of money .. If they don't pay well .. no one has yet to
refuse ..

My players main concern is when they show up for an extraction of a
client is that they might not take there weapons and gear with them
and they don't since it is not there job to do so, ok they might
bring little things and what the client is holding at the moment but
they don't pick up droped objects or hugh assault weapons for them.

Will they tell the cops ? Well yes they will report the "official"
pick up but they will probably forget to tell about his non-official
friends .. and well if they pay up they might not report anything.

> However, this has resulted in DocWagon picking up some teams in some
> obviously incriminating situations. How do you all handle it?

Well they pick up the client and anybody that messes with them is in
deep deep drek ... and if the runners are into some deep drek with
they show up they usually look the other way for a piece of the
action ... but they don't help .. it's just for there silence ..

/Stefan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage .............................. http://hsl.home.ml.org ...
... ICQ .................................................. 1403212 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon
Date:	Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:39:18 +0100

Message no. 16 Stefan said on 23:39/24 Sep 97...

> Well I require a SIN (or a fake one) to purchase a Doc Wagon
> contract. Why ? Well basically cause I don't think that they
> officially wanna provide healing services to "badguys" .. but at
> pickup they usually recover the injured man and his/her friends to
> even if they don't have a contract and afterward they just charge
> them loads of money ..

If you read the NAGRL, that is what _doesn't_ happen, IMHO. DocWagon only
concerns itself with those who have a contract, not anyone else no matter
how badly hurt they are. One of the shadowcomments mentions a DW employee
who got reprimanded for helping non-subscribers.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zo buurman, ik hier?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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From:	Mike Hartmann <hartmann@***********.M.EUNET.DE>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon
Date:	Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:36:22 +0000

Message no. 17 Gurth wrote:

> > Well I require a SIN (or a fake one) to purchase a Doc Wagon
> > contract. Why ? Well basically cause I don't think that they
> > officially wanna provide healing services to "badguys" .. but at
> > pickup they usually recover the injured man and his/her friends to
> > even if they don't have a contract and afterward they just charge
> > them loads of money ..
>
> If you read the NAGRL, that is what _doesn't_ happen, IMHO. DocWagon only
> concerns itself with those who have a contract, not anyone else no matter
> how badly hurt they are. One of the shadowcomments mentions a DW employee
> who got reprimanded for helping non-subscribers.

in germany we have an automobile club that helps you, if you have a
breakdown with your car. usually they don't help non-subscribers, but
they allow you to join if you already have a breakdown and call them
then.

<blazing guns and lots of detonations>
DocWagon-Employee: "Hello Sir, you look like you are seriously
wounded. Do you want us to bring you into a hospital?"
Runner: "Ohhhh... Arghhh..."
DWE: "I take that as a yes, please sign here for your
two-year super-platinum contract. I hope you understand that we have
to apply a 10 percent surcharge on your payment"
Runner: "Uhh... Arghh... "
<DocWagon-car leaving scene at high-speed>

bye mike

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon
Date:	Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:56:44 +0100

Message no. 18 Mike Hartmann said on 13:36/25 Sep 97...

> in germany we have an automobile club that helps you, if you have a
> breakdown with your car. usually they don't help non-subscribers, but
> they allow you to join if you already have a breakdown and call them
> then.

It's the same in this country. It would make sense for DocWagon to work
with similar tactics, and while it's not fully consistent with the NAGRL
chapter I think I'll start playing them like this...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zo buurman, ik hier?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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From:	IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject:	DocWagon
Date:	Thu, 03 Jun 1999 11:43:16 -0400

Message no. 19 Can anyone tell me what the standerd equipment for DocWagon personal and
vehicles is?

CyberRaven Kevin Dole
http://www.Geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/4151/welcome.html
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."

From:	Ken Ken@********.com
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:47:31 -0400

Message no. 20 Hi there all,

Is there a sourcebook or part of a sourcebook that goes into detail about
Doc Wagon? Is there any idea why DW wasn't created as a Corp. There isn't
much in SR2 or 3 about it other than in SR3, they wont go into
extraterritorial/Corporate space without prior approval. What about Lone
Star's approval of Hi risk Extractions? Is Doc Wagon afforded extra
benefits (like being able to discharge large caliber weapons in public) due
to what they do? It was the golden rule a while back "Keep yourself on Doc
Wagons good side" when you figure the amount of folks that have contracts,
you'd think that someone would have figured what kind of a useful tool a
non franchised Doc Wagon would be and bought them all out (among other
things).

Ken

From:	Lloyd Vance ljvance@*******.edu
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:57:06 -0700

Message no. 21 At 08:47 PM 6/22/99 -0400, Ken wrote:
>Hi there all,
>
>Is there a sourcebook or part of a sourcebook that goes into detail about
>Doc Wagon? Is there any idea why DW wasn't created as a Corp. There isn't
>much in SR2 or 3 about it other than in SR3, they wont go into
>extraterritorial/Corporate space without prior approval. What about Lone
>Star's approval of Hi risk Extractions? Is Doc Wagon afforded extra
>benefits (like being able to discharge large caliber weapons in public) due
>to what they do? It was the golden rule a while back "Keep yourself on Doc
>Wagons good side" when you figure the amount of folks that have contracts,
>you'd think that someone would have figured what kind of a useful tool a
>non franchised Doc Wagon would be and bought them all out (among other
>things).
>
>Ken

There is a small blurb (5-6 pages) at the back of NAGRL. I thought there
was another somewhere else, but I can't find it right now.

From:	Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:04:02 +1000

Message no. 22 Ken writes:
> Is there a sourcebook or part of a sourcebook that goes into detail about
> Doc Wagon?

NAGRL. (Neo-Anarchists Guide to Real Life)

> Is there any idea why DW wasn't created as a Corp.

It is.

> There isn't
> much in SR2 or 3 about it other than in SR3, they wont go into
> extraterritorial/Corporate space without prior approval. What about Lone
> Star's approval of Hi risk Extractions?

If DocWagon act illegally, the Star might bust them. Hi Risk Extractions,
though, tend to be more like going into a firefight and taking out the
client. They won't wade in on a Star operation, so the firefight is usually
illegal anyway, and DocWagon is acting legally to protect their client, so
long as they do not use excessive force.

> Is Doc Wagon afforded extra
> benefits (like being able to discharge large caliber weapons in
> public) due
> to what they do?

DocWagon are a security firm, in this respect, and have the rights of
security firms. Check out CSH (Corporate Security Handbook) for details on
this.

> It was the golden rule a while back "Keep
> yourself on Doc
> Wagons good side" when you figure the amount of folks that have
> contracts,
> you'd think that someone would have figured what kind of a useful tool a
> non franchised Doc Wagon would be and bought them all out (among other
> things).

I'd imagine DocWagon take steps to prevent this.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com

From:	Jason 'Ding' Dowd jdowd@****.edu
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:32:05 -0700

Message no. 23 At 05:47 PM 6/22/99 , you wrote:
>Is there a sourcebook or part of a sourcebook that goes into detail about
>Doc Wagon?

The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life has some details on DocWagon, and
the adventure book Missions goes into a lot of detail about the way
DocWagon works on the streets.

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:38:51 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 24 > What about Lone Star's approval of Hi risk Extractions?

That all depends on the location. If it's on extraterritorial (read:
Megacorp) territory, then DocWagon has to check in with the owners
before sending a team in. Same for anything Lone Star directly owns.
For public areas, I don't think it matters too much. See my comments
below for one reason why.

> Is Doc Wagon afforded extra benefits (like being able to discharge
large caliber weapons in public) due to what they do?
> Ken

Yes and no. They CAN discharge the big weapons - BUT all ammo (save for
one emergency round) is gel. The emergency round is standard ammo. It's
given out at the start of each assignment (or is it at the start of
each shift?) and must be returned at the end of each shift/assignment.
If you CAN'T return it (due to having fired it or lost it or whatever),
you'd better have a damned good explanation.

I think this policy does a lot to alleviate the concerns over HTR
teams. Btw, if you're wondering where the above data comes from, check
the Missions module. It has very good detail on the operations of a HTR
team.

*Doc' grumbles at Ken... "That's DocWagon, boy...and don't badmouth the corp!"*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From:	Snake Eyes snake.eyes@********.att.net
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:25:47 -0700

Message no. 25 At 08:47 PM 6/22/99 -0400, Ken wrote:
>
>Is there a sourcebook or part of a sourcebook that goes into detail about
>Doc Wagon? Is there any idea why DW wasn't created as a Corp. There isn't
>much in SR2 or 3 about it other than in SR3, they wont go into
>extraterritorial/Corporate space without prior approval. What about Lone
>Star's approval of Hi risk Extractions? Is Doc Wagon afforded extra
>benefits (like being able to discharge large caliber weapons in public) due
>to what they do? It was the golden rule a while back "Keep yourself on Doc
>Wagons good side" when you figure the amount of folks that have contracts,
>you'd think that someone would have figured what kind of a useful tool a
>non franchised Doc Wagon would be and bought them all out (among other
>things).

DocWagon is covered in The Neoanarchist's Guide to Real Life, and in the
Missions sourcebook. They also get a little coverage in the SRII
Companion, for folks who want to play a DocWagon campaign.

I always prefered the medevac situation put forth in the original Cyberpunk
game by R. Talsorian. There are several different rescue companies
competing for clients. I carried this over into my SR campaign, since I
thought it was silly for DocWagon to have a monopoly on HTR.

Each company has a different profile in terms of price, quality & limits of
service. They've been known to engage in claimjumping and all-out turf
battles. Some acknowledge corporate extraterritoriality and some don't.
Some are straight-up paramedic boy scouts, while others are more like a
squad of ex-commando extractors. It makes for more interesting play that
way. Lots of gunplay in the streets. Losses can be recouped via the
corporate courts after the fact and behind the scenes. Screw Lone Star.
Business is business, after all.

~ Snake Eyes

From:	Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:36:08 +1000

Message no. 26 Snake Eyes writes:
> I always prefered the medevac situation put forth in the original
> Cyberpunk
> game by R. Talsorian. There are several different rescue companies
> competing for clients. I carried this over into my SR campaign, since I
> thought it was silly for DocWagon to have a monopoly on HTR.

They haven't always had it... CrashKart was set up to compete with them, but
they went down due to a scandalous situation. I'm sure another competitor
could be set up if you want it.

> Each company has a different profile in terms of price, quality &
> limits of
> service. They've been known to engage in claimjumping and all-out turf
> battles. Some acknowledge corporate extraterritoriality and some don't.
> Some are straight-up paramedic boy scouts, while others are more like a
> squad of ex-commando extractors. It makes for more interesting play that
> way. Lots of gunplay in the streets. Losses can be recouped via the
> corporate courts after the fact and behind the scenes. Screw Lone Star.
> Business is business, after all.

"Lots of gunplay in the streets"... um, no. If your medivac corps regularly
engage in gunbattles in the downtown, then the city would order LS to shut
them down. If LS balked, they'd send in the guard.

SR isn't like Cyberpunk... the government do have some strength, you know.
If a corp regularly engages in gunfights outside of their extraterritorial
turf, then the government would shut them down.

--
sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com

From:	Snake Eyes snake.eyes@********.att.net
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:06:44 -0700

Message no. 27 At 01:36 PM 6/23/99 +1000, Robert Watkins wrote:
>
>"Lots of gunplay in the streets"... um, no. If your medivac corps regularly
>engage in gunbattles in the downtown, then the city would order LS to shut
>them down. If LS balked, they'd send in the guard.

You are of course correct in that a running gun battle in the heart of the
financial district is not something that would or should be tolerated more
than once in a blue moon. But you could tac-nuke one of those
semi-suburban business parks or most industrial compounds and not really
get noticed by the local government.

>SR isn't like Cyberpunk... the government do have some strength, you know.
>If a corp regularly engages in gunfights outside of their extraterritorial
>turf, then the government would shut them down.

I guess I should have clarified. In my game world, Shadowrun *IS* like
Cyberpunk ( ... and BladeRunner, and Max Headroom). I love the SR rules,
but I often don't find the setting dark enough for my taste.

I prefer a little more dystopia in my campaign than what the standard SR
fare offers. I view the relationship between Lone Star and the government
as something akin to OCP & New Detroit in the RoboCop movies. And I still
like the idea of DocWagon & co. being more like Pararescue commandos than
EMT boy scouts.

Just one man's opinion.

~ Snake Eyes

From:	Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:08:43 +1000

Message no. 28 >> I always prefered the medevac situation put forth in the original
>> Cyberpunk
>> game by R. Talsorian. There are several different rescue companies
>> competing for clients. I carried this over into my SR campaign, since I
>> thought it was silly for DocWagon to have a monopoly on HTR.
>
>They haven't always had it... CrashKart was set up to compete with them, but
>they went down due to a scandalous situation. I'm sure another competitor
>could be set up if you want it.

CrashCart didn't go down entirely; check out the Yamatetsu write-up in
Corporate Download.

Lady Jestyr

Work like you don't need the money. | It might look like I'm doing
Love like you've never been hurt. | nothing, but at the cellular
Dance like nobody's watching. | level I'm really quite busy.

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr *

From:	IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:20:17 -0400

Message no. 29 At 18.32 06-22-99 -0700, you wrote:
>The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life has some details on DocWagon, and
>the adventure book Missions goes into a lot of detail about the way

DAMNIT, DON'T TELL US TO LOOK IN AN OUT OF PRINT
BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Those people who have books like NAGRL and PANA are lucky. But most of us
don't have them, and can't get them becuase they are completely and totally
unavailable. I am not addessing this to any one person, but to a group:
remember that the majority of us don't have these books. If you are going
to tell us were some6thing is, but that someplace is unaccessable, it does
us about as much good as teats on a bull. Can we get the Cliff Notes version?

CyberRaven Kevin Dole
http://www.Geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/4151/welcome.html
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"Briar Rabbit to Briar Fox; I was BORN in that briar patch!"

From:	Sommers sommers@*****.umich.edu
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:28:11 -0400

Message no. 30 At 08:20 AM 6/23/99 , IronRaven wrote:
>At 18.32 06-22-99 -0700, you wrote:
>>The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life has some details on DocWagon, and
>>the adventure book Missions goes into a lot of detail about the way
>
> DAMNIT, DON'T TELL US TO LOOK IN AN OUT OF PRINT
>BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Those people who have books like NAGRL and PANA are lucky. But most of us
>don't have them, and can't get them becuase they are completely and totally
>unavailable. I am not addessing this to any one person, but to a group:
>remember that the majority of us don't have these books. If you are going
>to tell us were some6thing is, but that someplace is unaccessable, it does
>us about as much good as teats on a bull. Can we get the Cliff Notes version?

Somebody posted the question where can I find information on DocWagon? The
answer is that they were described for 6 pages or so in NAGRL. That happens
to be out of print, which sucks, but that's where they are. Unfortunately
there are times where the only place to find some piece of info is going to
be unavailable to new people. That's just the way it is.

And for the record, there is probably just as much information in the
Missions adventure and in the alternate campaign section of SrComp. Not as
much about the history of the company as how they operate today, which is I
believe what the original question was about.

Sommers
Insert witty quote here.

From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:33:25 -0300

Message no. 31 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to IronRaven."
] At 18.32 06-22-99 -0700, you wrote:
] >The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life has some details on DocWagon, and
] >the adventure book Missions goes into a lot of detail about the way
]
] DAMNIT, DON'T TELL US TO LOOK IN AN OUT OF PRINT
] BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
] !!!!!!!!!!!!!

<snip justifiable anger at OOP references>

You know, being nice generally gets you further than yelling...the
DocWagon section in NAGRL is fairly long, more than someone would want
to print up in an e-mail. But, if you wish, you can e-mail me with
specific questions, and I might be able to answer them for you.
BTW, NAGRL is often on eBay, for a decent price. Take a look, you
might find it's easier to get than you think.

-Murder of One

From:	Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:17:35 -0500

Message no. 32 >>The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life has some details on
>>DocWagon....
>
>DAMNIT, DON'T TELL US TO LOOK IN AN OUT OF PRINT BOOK!!!!!!

<much exclamation snipped>

>Those people who have books like NAGRL and PANA are lucky. But most
>of us don't have them, and can't get them becuase they are completely
>and totally unavailable.

Well, no they're not. Sites like www.ebay.com have these books come up all
the time; just do a search on "shadowrun" (sans quotes) from the main page
and you'll generally get 75-80 items up for bid at any given time.

I got several OOP books at www.levalet.com, Le Valet d'Couer (sp?), a
Canadian game shop in, I believe, Montreal. The exchange rate is friendly
right now, too.

Another online game shop, that will set up a wish list for you, is
www.crazyegors.com in upstate New York; they got me both NAN books, for
instance.

The place where I found my copy of Universal Brotherhood was
www.coasbooks.com. They're a college bookstore in Los Alamos, NM, but they
have a heavy-duty gaming section with all sorts of used and out-of-print
stuff.

Patrick

From:	Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:32:50 -0500

Message no. 33 >>The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life has some details on
>>DocWagon....
>
>DAMNIT, DON'T TELL US TO LOOK IN AN OUT OF PRINT BOOK!!!!!!

<much exclamation snipped>

>Those people who have books like NAGRL and PANA are lucky. But most
>of us don't have them, and can't get them becuase they are completely
>and totally unavailable.

Well, no they're not. Sites like www.ebay.com have these books come up all
the time; just do a search on "shadowrun" (sans quotes) from the main page
and you'll generally get 75-80 items up for bid at any given time.

I got several OOP books at www.levalet.com, Le Valet d'Couer (sp?), a
Canadian game shop in, I believe, Montreal. The exchange rate is friendly
right now, too.

Another online game shop, that will set up a wish list for you, is
www.crazyegors.com in upstate New York; they got me both NAN books, for
instance.

The place where I found my copy of Universal Brotherhood was
www.coasbooks.com. They're a college bookstore in Los Alamos, NM, but they
have a heavy-duty gaming section with all sorts of used and out-of-print
stuff.

Patrick

From:	Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:37:16 -0500

Message no. 34 >The place where I found my copy of Universal Brotherhood was
>www.coasbooks.com. They're a college bookstore in Los Alamos, NM....

Las Cruces, dipstick, Las Cruces....

(they can be emailed with a request at coas@*********.com, by the way.)

Patrick

From:	Mark Fender markf@******.com
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:30:09 -0500

Message no. 35 > >SR isn't like Cyberpunk... the government do have some strength, you
> know.
> >If a corp regularly engages in gunfights outside of their
> extraterritorial
> >turf, then the government would shut them down.
>
> I guess I should have clarified. In my game world, Shadowrun *IS* like
> Cyberpunk ( ... and BladeRunner, and Max Headroom). I love the SR rules,
> but I often don't find the setting dark enough for my taste.
>
Amen. It's all them damn elves. I don't find the setting dark enough either.
My current campaign revolves around a group gangers trapped within the CZ in
Chicago during the height of the Bug madness. The characters were created
using the Build point system (75 points) and the State of the Art Edge is
required for any piece of equipment with an Availability of 6 or higher (and
in Chitown, everything's higher). Before the game begins, everyone's
depressed about their characters.

> I prefer a little more dystopia in my campaign than what the standard SR
> fare offers. I view the relationship between Lone Star and the government
> as something akin to OCP & New Detroit in the RoboCop movies. And I still
> like the idea of DocWagon & co. being more like Pararescue commandos than
> EMT boy scouts.
>
>

From:	Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:04:45 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 36 On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, IronRaven wrote:

> DAMNIT, DON'T TELL US TO LOOK IN AN OUT OF PRINT
> BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Calm the hell down. If you'll look at the original message,
you'll find that Ken said:

"Is there a sourcebook or part of a sourcebook that goes into detail
about Doc Wagon?"

The obvious answer to that question is "yes." The obvious
extension to that answer is "The information you seek was published in the
Neo-Anarchists' Guide to Real Life."
Whether or not he has the book or can get the book is totally
immaterial. He only asked if it existed. They answered his question
directly. He's not complaining. Why are you?

Marc Renouf (ShadowRN GridSec - "Bad Cop" Division)

Other ShadowRN-related addresses and links:
Mark Imbriaco <mark@*********.html.com> List Owner
Adam Jury <adamj@*********.html.com> Assistant List Administrator
DVixen <dvixen@****.com> Keeper of the FAQs
Gurth <gurth@******.nl> GridSec Enforcer Division
David Buehrer <graht@********.att.net> GridSec "Nice Guy" Division
ShadowRN FAQ <http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/faqindex.php3>;

From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:13:33 -0300

Message no. 37 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Patrick Goodman."
] I got several OOP books at www.levalet.com, Le Valet d'Couer (sp?), a
] Canadian game shop in, I believe, Montreal. The exchange rate is friendly
] right now, too.

Depends which side of the border you're on, bub :(

-Murder of One

From:	Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:21:37 -0500

Message no. 38 >] I got several OOP books at www.levalet.com, Le Valet d'Couer (sp?),
>| a Canadian game shop in, I believe, Montreal. The exchange rate
>| is friendly right now, too.
>
> Depends which side of the border you're on, bub :(

Well...my side, of course.... <ducks>

From:	Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:30:24 -0500

Message no. 39 :Yes and no. They CAN discharge the big weapons - BUT all ammo (save for
:one emergency round) is gel. The emergency round is standard ammo. It's
:given out at the start of each assignment (or is it at the start of
:each shift?) and must be returned at the end of each shift/assignment.
:If you CAN'T return it (due to having fired it or lost it or whatever),
:you'd better have a damned good explanation.

This seems an ASININE policy. What if the opposition is under cover,
has vehicles, or is opperating drones? Your gel rounds are WORTHLESS, and
you have to cycle in that one shot...
I suppose in those cases, they are supposed to call the Star or other
backup (those would all be HTR situations, so they could get a mge too), but
still, the person they are sent to save is likely to die, for lack of decent
ammo.

Mongoose

From:	Sommers sommers@*****.umich.edu
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:33:49 -0400

Message no. 40 At 03:30 PM 6/23/99 , Mongoose wrote:
>
>:Yes and no. They CAN discharge the big weapons - BUT all ammo (save for
>:one emergency round) is gel. The emergency round is standard ammo. It's
>:given out at the start of each assignment (or is it at the start of
>:each shift?) and must be returned at the end of each shift/assignment.
>:If you CAN'T return it (due to having fired it or lost it or whatever),
>:you'd better have a damned good explanation.
>
> This seems an ASININE policy. What if the opposition is under cover,
>has vehicles, or is opperating drones? Your gel rounds are WORTHLESS, and
>you have to cycle in that one shot...
> I suppose in those cases, they are supposed to call the Star or other
>backup (those would all be HTR situations, so they could get a mge too), but
>still, the person they are sent to save is likely to die, for lack of decent
>ammo.

IIRC, the gel round policy only refers to personal weapons. If its a low
threat response, they shouldn't be getting into problems where they need
vehicles or drones. The HTR teams have armored vehicles with autocannons on
them. I'm betting those are loading regular ammo...

Sommers
Insert witty quote here.

From:	Mark A Shieh SHODAN+@***.EDU
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:14:54 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 41 "Mongoose" <m0ng005e@*********.com> writes:
> :Yes and no. They CAN discharge the big weapons - BUT all ammo (save for
> :one emergency round) is gel. The emergency round is standard ammo. It's
> :given out at the start of each assignment (or is it at the start of
> :each shift?) and must be returned at the end of each shift/assignment.
> :If you CAN'T return it (due to having fired it or lost it or whatever),
> :you'd better have a damned good explanation.
>
> This seems an ASININE policy. What if the opposition is under cover,
> has vehicles, or is opperating drones? Your gel rounds are WORTHLESS, and
> you have to cycle in that one shot...

IIRC, the run in Missions has you posing as DocWagon temps,
not DocWagon HTR, and the policy listed above was the one given for
the run. Under the circumstances, it seems to be a decent policy.
You ended up better off than a standard DocWagon team, but nowhere
near as combat ready as a HTR team.

Mark

From:	IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:05:47 -0400

Message no. 42 At 09.33 06-23-99 -0300, you wrote:
> You know, being nice generally gets you further than yelling...the
>DocWagon section in NAGRL is fairly long, more than someone would want
>to print up in an e-mail. But, if you wish, you can e-mail me with
>specific questions, and I might be able to answer them for you.

I've asked the list questions about DocWagon before. Several times. It was
one of the first things I asked the list, in fact. I can't be too specific
if I don't know anything about it other than they appear to grab PJs and
other s.o. medics as soon as they leave the service and that they are
expensive. Other than that, if you own niether NAGRL nor Missions, how
specific a question can one ask?

> BTW, NAGRL is often on eBay, for a decent price. Take a look, you
>might find it's easier to get than you think.

No offense, but I have a real problem with an auction that I am not
physcially at and can't view the merchandise, at least for used items.
Someone can say "near mint", but thier near mint and my near mint can be
very far apart.

CyberRaven Kevin Dole
http://www.Geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/4151/welcome.html
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"Briar Rabbit to Briar Fox; I was BORN in that briar patch!"

From:	Ken Ken@********.com
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:19:02 -0400

Message no. 43 <snip>
I still
> like the idea of DocWagon & co. being more like Pararescue commandos than
> EMT boy scouts.
>
> Just one man's opinion.
>
> ~ Snake Eyes
>
>
>
I would be the ideal place for some runners that have the need to turn an
honest buck every now and again. "How do you maintain that "Middle
lifestyle" Doc Wagon Employee. It might also provide a license for the
gun your carrying that's more on the illegal side (and concealed). A Doc
Wagon id card and the reply "I'm on Call" might go a long way in getting
just a verbal warning...

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:48:27 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 44 > > :Yes and no. They CAN discharge the big weapons - BUT all ammo
(save for one emergency round) is gel. The emergency round is standard
ammo. It's given out at the start of each assignment (or is it at the
start of each shift?) and must be returned at the end of each
shift/assignment. If you CAN'T return it (due to having fired it or
lost it or whatever), you'd better have a damned good explanation.
> >
> > This seems an ASININE policy. What if the opposition is under
cover, has vehicles, or is opperating drones? Your gel rounds are
WORTHLESS, and you have to cycle in that one shot...
>
> IIRC, the run in Missions has you posing as DocWagon temps, not
DocWagon HTR, and the policy listed above was the one given for the
run. Under the circumstances, it seems to be a decent policy. You
ended up better off than a standard DocWagon team, but nowhere near as
combat ready as a HTR team.
> Mark

Errr, yes, the team in Missions is temps, but...hmmm...yeah, that WAS
probably the temp policy, not the policy for full-time HTR personnel.
Probably. Can't remember either way. Someone who has access better
check.

*Doc' gives Mongoose a Clayton's apology...*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Thu, 24 Jun 1999 02:02:44 -0300

Message no. 45 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to IronRaven."
] I've asked the list questions about DocWagon before. Several times. It was
] one of the first things I asked the list, in fact. I can't be too specific
] if I don't know anything about it other than they appear to grab PJs and
] other s.o. medics as soon as they leave the service and that they are
] expensive. Other than that, if you own niether NAGRL nor Missions, how
] specific a question can one ask?

Well, the offer stands if you think of something...

] No offense, but I have a real problem with an auction that I am not
] physcially at and can't view the merchandise, at least for used items.
] Someone can say "near mint", but thier near mint and my near mint can be
] very far apart.

Hey, I tried.

-Murder of One

From:	IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject:	Doc Wagon
Date:	Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:12:15 -0400

Message no. 46 At 02.02 06-24-99 -0300, you wrote:
> Well, the offer stands if you think of something...

OK, here goes:
What are the stats for your average DocWagon crew, and how big is the crew.
What equipment (especialily personal) is carried by Doc Wagon.
And how are the DocWagon vehilces that are mentioned in the vehilces
tables in FoF aremed and supplied. (just a listing; I'm only using RBB
rules.)

> Hey, I tried.

I know, but I know a few folks who've gotten the short end of the stick
from eBay.

CyberRaven Kevin Dole
http://www.Geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/4151/welcome.html
"Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"Briar Rabbit to Briar Fox; I was BORN in that briar patch!"

From:	Smilin' Assassin SmilinAssassin@********.demon.co.uk
Subject:	DocWagon
Date:	Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:58:57 +0100

Message no. 47 OK - if you've not already got the answer by now (sheesh - a month late is
better than nothing, I suppose!), then NAGtRL has the complete low down on
DocWagon teams. If you don't have access to it, (and you still need it!)
mail me off-list & I'll give you the stats.

Smilin' Assassin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: shadowrn-admin@*********.org
> [mailto:shadowrn-admin@*********.org]On Behalf Of IronRaven
> Sent: 03 June 1999 16:43
> To: shadowrn@*********.org
> Subject: DocWagon
>
>
> Can anyone tell me what the standerd equipment for DocWagon
> personal and
> vehicles is?
>
>
> CyberRaven Kevin Dole
> http://www.Geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/4151/welcome.html
> "Once again, we have spat int he face of Death and his second cousin,
> Dismemberment."
>
>
>
>
>
>

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Jane van Roekel)
Subject:	DocWagon
Date:	Wed Jun 27 03:00:01 2001

Message no. 48 Here's another question that came up during character creation.

Does anyone know what the make-up of a DocWagon HTR team is? What kind of
equipment do they have?

Thanks,
Jane

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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject:	DocWagon
Date:	Wed Jun 27 03:45:07 2001

Message no. 49 > Here's another question that came up during
character creation.
>
> Does anyone know what the make-up of a DocWagon HTR
team is? What kind of equipment do they have?
> Jane

Heh heh heh...guess who thought this was addressed to
him personally at first...;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject:	DocWagon
Date:	Wed Jun 27 05:40:21 2001

Message no. 50 According to Jane van Roekel, on Wed, 27 Jun 2001 the word on the street was...

> Here's another question that came up during character creation.
>
> Does anyone know what the make-up of a DocWagon HTR team is? What kind of
> equipment do they have?

The best information about DocWagon is in the Neo-Anarchists' Guide to Real
Life, but this book can be hard to find (plus you may not want to go to the
expense of buying it yet, of course).

HTR teams consist of three medics and four "threat support personnel"
(read: goons :) The medics wear armor jackets and carry Fichetti Security
500 light pistols, while the threat support personnel wear security armor
and are armed with HK 227-S SMGs with smartlinks; they also have cyberware
smartlinks, low-light and wired reflexes 2.

For transport, HRTs use ambulances based on the Ares Citymaster and the
Osprey II tilt-rotorcraft, stats for both of which are in Rigger 3; the
Osprey II is also in SR3 (p. 311).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
A bad day fishing is still better than a good day dying.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Message no. 51 From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>
> According to Jane van Roekel, on Wed, 27 Jun 2001 the word on the street
was...
>
> > Here's another question that came up during character creation.
> >
> > Does anyone know what the make-up of a DocWagon HTR team is? What kind of
> > equipment do they have?
>
> The best information about DocWagon is in the Neo-Anarchists' Guide to Real
> Life, but this book can be hard to find (plus you may not want to go to the
> expense of buying it yet, of course).

There is also some information in the Shadowrun Companions.

In the Shadowrun Companion Behind the Shadows (for SR2) it is on pages 110-113

In the Shadowrun Companion Revised for Third Edition (for SR3) it is on pages 76
(paramedic), 90-91 & 109-112 (same as in SR2 companion).

The Paramedic can also be found in the Contacts book (that comes with the SR2 GM
screen) on page 24.

For vehicles you can find the DocWagon Citymaster Variant, DocWagon CRT
Ambulance, DocWagon CRT Air Unit, DocWagon Opsrey II, DocWagon SRT Ambulance,
DocWagon SRT Helicopter and DocWagon WK-2 Stallion Variant in the Rigger 2 book.
They can also be found in the aforementioner Neo-Anarchists Guide to Real Life,
except the DocWagon SRT Ambulance which can be found in the Rigger Black Book
(AKA Rigger 1).

Lars
--
Lars Wagner Hansen, Jagtvej 11, 4180 Sorø
l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen

Message no. 52 >The best information about DocWagon is in the Neo-Anarchists' Guide to Real
>Life, but this book can be hard to find (plus you may not want to go to the
>expense of buying it yet, of course).

Plus its what, at least 5 years old? Doc Wagon may have updated thier
methods since then. Moving at the speed of bussiness, and all that. Hell,
NAGRL is pre bug city.

>HTR teams consist of three medics and four "threat support personnel"
>(read: goons :) The medics wear armor jackets and carry Fichetti Security
>500 light pistols, while the threat support personnel wear security armor
>and are armed with HK 227-S SMGs with smartlinks; they also have cyberware
>smartlinks, low-light and wired reflexes 2.

I'd suggest that they would also have some magical backup, on occasion.
Maybe not every time, but often enough that you couldn't count on them not
having it. They would have it on call all the time, but Sr3 restricts
astral reponse pretty much to spirit aid. And some of the HRT "goons" could
easily be adepts, or metahumans, or have different cyber.
I also think they would prefer to use non-lethal and chemical weapons-
chences are they are in hazmat gear already, and non-lethals often make for
easier use around crowds, but can still take down peoiple in armor, often
better than bullets.

-Mongoose

Message no. 53 I would like to hear some opinions from that:

Do you guys allow SINless characters to have DocWagon contracts ?

(I don´t, but some of my players do disagree...)

Regards
Will

Message no. 54 ----- Original Message -----
From: Wilson Reis <wilson.reis@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, June 17, 2004 11:51 am
Subject: Doc Wagon...

> I would like to hear some opinions from that:
>
> Do you guys allow SINless characters to have DocWagon contracts ?
>
> (I don´t, but some of my players do disagree...)

I would say they need at least a low-rated fake SIN.

For appearances' sake, if nothing else.

Message no. 55 --- Wilson Reis <wilson.reis@*****.com> wrote:
> I would like to hear some opinions from that:
>
> Do you guys allow SINless characters to have DocWagon contracts ?

Of course. Just buy a fake SIN and use that one for the contract.
Personally, we never ruled that it had to be a particularly solid
identity in order to get service (they do want your money, after all),
just something basic that hasn't been compromised yet. If you're
wanted by someone though, there's the possibility that Docwagon
service will be accompanied by people who want to have a chat with you.

I'm not sure you consider someone with a fake SIN truly SINless though.

Mark

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Message no. 56 On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:10:13 -0700 (PDT), Mark S
<msde_shadowrn@*****.com> wrote:
>
> --- Wilson Reis <wilson.reis@*****.com> wrote:
> > I would like to hear some opinions from that:
> >
> > Do you guys allow SINless characters to have DocWagon contracts ?
>
> Of course. Just buy a fake SIN and use that one for the contract.

But a contract implies that DocWagon has a tissue sample of the
character in their vault. And, AFAIK, the SIN carries some DNA
information, so the fake SIN would have to be a very good fake to
bypass the crosschecking...

I agree that DocW. wants to have as many contracts as possible, but i
don´t see shadowrunners as being their main source of profit. On the
contrary, they profit from people afraid of being the target of
shadowruns, and those have legit SINs.

Will

Message no. 57 Wilson Reis wrote:
>
> I would like to hear some opinions from that:
>
> Do you guys allow SINless characters to have DocWagon contracts ?
>
> (I don´t, but some of my players do disagree...)
>
> Regards
> Will

Here's how I view it. If the runner can afford to pay for the contract, and
is willing to live with the knowledge that they have a material link in
their vaults, AND they have purchased a lifestyle higher than Low, then Doc
Wagon is more than happy to set them up with the contract. (Going on the
assumption that, with a Medium Lifestyle or higher, they've got to have a
SIN anyway.)

Zebulin

"Per Ardua ad Astra"

Message no. 58 On Thu, 17 Jun 2004, John C. Penta wrote:

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Wilson Reis <wilson.reis@*****.com>
> Date: Thursday, June 17, 2004 11:51 am
> Subject: Doc Wagon...
>
> > I would like to hear some opinions from that:
> >
> > Do you guys allow SINless characters to have DocWagon contracts ?
> >
> > (I don�t, but some of my players do disagree...)
>
> I would say they need at least a low-rated fake SIN.
>
> For appearances' sake, if nothing else.

That would be my ruling as well. Figure it this way: every Shadowrun GM
knows that a large number of DocWagon clients are probably "freelance
operatives", at the higher levels if nothing else. (I mean really, who
else needs an ambulance service that offers free resuscitations and a
discount on the times they send a gunship to lift you out?) DocWagon
probably knows this too, and their famously broad patient anonymity
policies are probably a direct attempt to cater to that market.

With all that in mind, the corporation probably requires a SIN for the
records, but as a matter of policy probably doesn't dig too deeply. Why
risk pulling something up you might have to report when you can just keep
taking the guy's nuyen, right?

If all you're talking about is a R3 fake SIN, we're not talking about big
outlays of money or time to get one. Just use it to take out your
DocWagon contract and then make sure you never use it for anything else,
ever. (Unless, that is, you like having old friends visit you in the
hospital)

Jeff D.

Message no. 59 On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:04:57 -0400 (EDT), Jeffrey T Dougherty
<jeffrey.t.dougherty@********.edu> wrote:
>
> That would be my ruling as well. Figure it this way: every Shadowrun GM
> knows that a large number of DocWagon clients are probably "freelance
> operatives", at the higher levels if nothing else. (I mean really, who
> else needs an ambulance service that offers free resuscitations and a
> discount on the times they send a gunship to lift you out?) DocWagon
> probably knows this too, and their famously broad patient anonymity
> policies are probably a direct attempt to cater to that market.
>
> With all that in mind, the corporation probably requires a SIN for the
> records, but as a matter of policy probably doesn't dig too deeply. Why
> risk pulling something up you might have to report when you can just keep
> taking the guy's nuyen, right?
>

Perhaps, perhaps...
I still think that DocWagon´s more profitable customers are the corp
suits who can afford paying for something they might never use.
Nowadays, a health insurance company main profit comes from healthy
people who pay their annual fees regularly.

<Evil>
Ok, so DocWagon detects the fake SIN and says nothing. The guy is
paying, everyone is happy.
If the owner of the fake SIN ever calls for Doc´s rescue and it seems
to be a tough job, the company refuses to attend because "The customer
failed to provide the proper documentation, thus cancelling the
contract" and there goes another runner...
</Evil>

Will

Message no. 60 --- Wilson Reis <wilson.reis@*****.com> wrote:
> But a contract implies that DocWagon has a tissue sample of the
> character in their vault. And, AFAIK, the SIN carries some DNA
> information, so the fake SIN would have to be a very good fake to
> bypass the crosschecking...

It depends on whether you feel that DocWagon wants to do any
crosschecking in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, they don't
care and are going to maintain confidentiality on any of this stuff.

DocWagon might have a tissue sample in their vault, I don't know. I
figured the only time that would be necessary is if you needed a cloned
body part immediately available. DocWagon should be able to make do
with blood type and medical history.

Inserting DNA information into the SIN can't be any harder than
inserting a photographic ID, they're both just files. I'm sure there
are well known algorithms to take a DNA sample and change it just
enough so that it's not a perfect match, but still compatible. My
understanding of fake SINs is that the difference between a good fake
and a bad fake isn't the quality of the information on the SIN itself.
Instead, the important part here is like today's credit history. A
good SIN will have dozens of years of fake transactions using that SIN,
demonstrating past usage of it. Daily trips to the stuffer shack,
education, past employment history, place of residence, stuff like
that.

> I agree that DocW. wants to have as many contracts as possible, but i
> don�t see shadowrunners as being their main source of profit.

Maybe not shadowrunners, but other people who have a lot of money and
want some privacy. I don't see how it pays for DocWagon to pry too
deeply into their customers. They get paid up front, after all.

Mark

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Message no. 61 z> Here's how I view it. If the runner can afford to pay for the contract, and
z> is willing to live with the knowledge that they have a material link in
z> their vaults,

---------------------------------------------

it's been a while since i read the SR rulebooks, but in my memory its
not a ritual link if it has not been taken with a ritual. (at least it
will stop beeing a material link more or less quickly but definitly
inside of one day) is my memory lieing to me ?

Message no. 62 >From: Mark S <msde_shadowrn@*****.com>
>
>--- Wilson Reis <wilson.reis@*****.com> wrote:
> > But a contract implies that DocWagon has a tissue sample of the
> > character in their vault. And, AFAIK, the SIN carries some DNA
> > information, so the fake SIN would have to be a very good fake to
> > bypass the crosschecking...
>
>It depends on whether you feel that DocWagon wants to do any
>crosschecking in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, they don't
>care and are going to maintain confidentiality on any of this stuff.
>
>DocWagon might have a tissue sample in their vault, I don't know. I
>figured the only time that would be necessary is if you needed a cloned
>body part immediately available. DocWagon should be able to make do
>with blood type and medical history.

Right up until the character loses a limb: see below.

>Inserting DNA information into the SIN can't be any harder than
>inserting a photographic ID, they're both just files. I'm sure there
>are well known algorithms to take a DNA sample and change it just
>enough so that it's not a perfect match, but still compatible.

That is such a bad idea. Let's say your character loses a limb (or Doc
Wagon takes a look at the damage and decides it's better to replace the
damaged limb with the one waiting in the vat). Lets say your GM is evil
(and Shadowrun GMs are by definition evil). I'll lay odds that your
character will wake up with an arm from a different race (if you're
caucasian, the arm might be african, asian, hispanic, etc). If you're in
Tinner's game the arm will be from a different sex ;)

-Graht

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Message no. 63 --- David Buehrer <graht1@*******.com> wrote:
> >From: Mark S <msde_shadowrn@*****.com>
> >It depends on whether you feel that DocWagon wants to do any
> >crosschecking in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, they
> don't
> >care and are going to maintain confidentiality on any of this stuff.
> >
> >DocWagon might have a tissue sample in their vault, I don't know. I
> >figured the only time that would be necessary is if you needed a
> cloned
> >body part immediately available. DocWagon should be able to make do
> >with blood type and medical history.
>
> Right up until the character loses a limb: see below.

Well, what would be the difference here regardless of whether they had
a tissue sample? You can just take a new one and start growing the new
limb. I thought the customer got to pick whether they wanted cloned,
vat grown, cyber, or whatever for their new body part.

> >Inserting DNA information into the SIN can't be any harder than
> >inserting a photographic ID, they're both just files. I'm sure
> there
> >are well known algorithms to take a DNA sample and change it just
> >enough so that it's not a perfect match, but still compatible.
>
> That is such a bad idea.

Hmm, I think you misunderstood what I meant by a compatible match. The
intent was to take a DNA sample, and change it just enough so that it
doesn't work as a fingerprint for biometric security (match other DNA
on file).

> Let's say your character loses a limb (or Doc
> Wagon takes a look at the damage and decides it's better to replace
the
> damaged limb with the one waiting in the vat). Lets say your GM is
evil
> (and Shadowrun GMs are by definition evil). I'll lay odds that your
> character will wake up with an arm from a different race (if you're
> caucasian, the arm might be african, asian, hispanic, etc). If
> you're in
> Tinner's game the arm will be from a different sex ;)

EGM factor can change anything, of course, but that only makes sense if
you used a complete stinker of an algorithm to slightly change your
DNA. The goal here is to change it so you can't just look at it and
search for matches trivially. It's not like I'm Bill the Galactic
Hero, here.

Anyway, it's just speculation on what makes for a good fake SIN. To
me, it definitely can't have your exact DNA fingerprint in it, if it
exists anywhere else, but it has to have a DNA that is within the
margin of error not to attract too much notice.

Mark

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Message no. 64 --- David Buehrer <graht1@*******.com> wrote:
> That is such a bad idea. Let's say your character loses a limb (or
> Doc
> Wagon takes a look at the damage and decides it's better to replace
> the
> damaged limb with the one waiting in the vat).

Also, I didn't think DocWagon kept cloned limbs lying around in vats
for the basic service. If you're paying for gold service, I think they
no longer care if your DNA in the tissue sample matches the one in the
SIN.

Mark

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Message no. 65 In article <6bebb5840406170851723c8726@****.gmail.com>, Wilson Reis
<wilson.reis@*****.com> writes
>I would like to hear some opinions from that:
>
>Do you guys allow SINless characters to have DocWagon contracts ?

Of course, provided they pay enough. There may be extra "administration
fees" to process 'non-standard clients' into the system.

Now, once you've got a contract... interesting dilemma. If DocWagon try
to screw you, do you take them to court? At what point does "SINless
psychopath sues saintly medical organisation" get outweighed by "Evil
Corporation claims 'just because you paid up front and in full doesn't
mean we have to honour our side'"?

Lots of interesting games to play.

--
Paul J. Adam

Message no. 66 >>I would like to hear some opinions from that:
>>
>>Do you guys allow SINless characters to have DocWagon contracts ?

>Of course, provided they pay enough. There may be extra "administration
>fees" to process 'non-standard clients' into the system.
>

Of course. You figured that they practicly made Super Platnim service for
the runner, why else would it not be advertised?
Runners probably do pay more (say 15-20% more then list) and rightly so,
since they actually use the services provided, and don't just get it for
piece of mind.

Someone somewhere pointed something out though... can't remember if it was a
player, Shadowtalk, or just the auther give the GM an evil idea, but the
packages that come with condition montions? A runner's "normal" paramiters
(Hart rate, blood pressure, toxin level) may exceed a statistical average
person's normal paramiters, and being a high priced client, they go and
check up on them. So maybe at the next inopportune time, the player gets a
phone call from DocWagon, or maybe the Osprey just shows up and screws
everything.

Message no. 67 According to Wilson Reis, on Thursday 17 June 2004 19:38 the word on the
street was...

> If the owner of the fake SIN ever calls for Doc´s rescue and it seems
> to be a tough job, the company refuses to attend because "The customer
> failed to provide the proper documentation, thus cancelling the
> contract" and there goes another runner...

That's a policy that will backfire ASAP. If the fake SIN-owner makes it out
(and sooner or later, enough of them will), word of mouth on the street
will soon be that DocWagon takes your money but doesn't actually come and
help you -- so there'll be plenty of runners not renewing their contracts.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
... in real life, which was styled after the film.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
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