Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Brian Johnson <john0375@****.tc.umn.edu>
Subject:	DocWagon response
Date:	Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:32:57 -0500 (CDT)

Message no. 1 > Paul J. Adam said on 17:28/25 Jun 96...

>>you need to know the DocWagon frequencies.
>
> That should be easy enough to do if you acquire one of their bracelets.
So they just give you a list of all their frequencies (here's the one for
mr. target, so don't broadcast on that one, ok? Ga HUCK. They wouldn't
even tell you yours. What good would it do you?

> > Secondly, you need to make the signal go off - so why not just kill the
> > guy in the process of breaking his bracelet?
>
> Maybe because you want to take out whoever comes when the bracelet goes
> off,
MOTIVE?
> -- a fake signal should...
<<Yeah, DocWagon, in business for 20 years, hasn't thought of that one.
They're in the business of saving lives! Diverting all their trucks would
be a major job in a city. Further, The bracelet likely has a
<hardwired> encryption system that is time, position, etc. Dependent,
which we in the Responding Ambulance use to VERIFY the signal as
coming from a legitimate bracelet. More so, communication between a
bracelet is two way, interactive! your broadcast would be
ignored. >> Dock Rock

If you've heard of Cellular Phone 'Ghost phones' which have the same
transponder codes as a legitimate phone, and the legit owner gets billed
for it (which is an estimated $4 billion<guess> loss a year to the telecom
industry, DON'T You think they'd have a way to counter that by now? Hmmmm?

> well. (Just record the signal sent out by the bracelet and broadcast it
> again --
ENCRYPTION/PROPRIETARY ALGORHYTHYM that is time dependent, etc.

> a CD last year that had "songs" composed of nothing but illegally recorded
> cellular-phone conversations.)
Which isn't yet illegal, by the way, for all you drug dealers out there :)
Since Cellular-phones use radio frequencies, which are 'public domain' at
present.

> > And thirdly, you need an anti-radar missile and something to launch it
> > from. Not exactly street issue.
> Not quite.
AS IF. This is the lifeblood of Anti-terrorist squads even NOW.
I'm surprise I have to say this:
In SR, there would be at least 20 groups well trained, specializing in
terrorism against their Corp/Nation.
> with SR's tech level I think it would be possible to stuff a radar-seeker
> into a shoulder-launched missile.
Or smaller, getting it is the problem.

> you won't be as obvious as when you're using a fighter plane.
Military Satellites would find where you land and strike team you dead.
and they'd SCRAMBLE when you enter their airspace.
Watch PATRIOT GAMES, then think how many Nations have Space tech now, and
count how many companies in the game are as big as the USGOVT.
Renraku, Fuchi, MCT, Ares, Sader-Krupp, Tir Tairngire/Nan
Og/Sioux/Aztechnology/Aztlan to name just a few. Think of all the spy
satellites they'd have up.

And they would love the PR from catching the bad guy terrorist and giving a
black eye to the GOVTs. ESPECIALLY LONE STAR, EAGLE, and KNIGHT
ERRANT/ARES(orbital platform- major satellites for sure!).

Ditto ground launch, where they'll have your picture on the air in minutes.
(or just come looking for you once you 'match' up.)

From:	"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon response
Date:	Thu, 27 Jun 1996 11:42:05 +0100

Message no. 2 Brian Johnson said on 11:32/26 Jun 96...

You can also say the things you wanted to say at a politer tone, you know.

> >>you need to know the DocWagon frequencies.
> >
> > That should be easy enough to do if you acquire one of their bracelets.
> So they just give you a list of all their frequencies (here's the one for
> mr. target, so don't broadcast on that one, ok? Ga HUCK. They wouldn't
> even tell you yours. What good would it do you?

I'm saying that, if you get a bracelet somehow, you can disassemble it and
see what frequency it broadcasts at.

> > Maybe because you want to take out whoever comes when the bracelet goes
> > off,
> MOTIVE?

Don't ask me, there may be people who want or need to do this.

> If you've heard of Cellular Phone 'Ghost phones' which have the same
> transponder codes as a legitimate phone, and the legit owner gets billed
> for it (which is an estimated $4 billion<guess> loss a year to the telecom
> industry, DON'T You think they'd have a way to counter that by now? Hmmmm?

I suppose that with "by now" you mean 205X, not 1996, because today that
seems to be happening a lot. The trouble seems to me to be solving this
problem without having the user type in a code or something every time he
makes a phonecall.

> > a CD last year that had "songs" composed of nothing but illegally
recorded
> > cellular-phone conversations.)
> Which isn't yet illegal, by the way, for all you drug dealers out there :)
> Since Cellular-phones use radio frequencies, which are 'public domain' at
> present.

In the U.S. maybe, this was in the UK and from what I recall seeing about
this CD on TV I'd guess it were illegal recordings. Remember that not
everybody on this list lives in the great US of A, OK?

> > > And thirdly, you need an anti-radar missile and something to launch it
> > > from. Not exactly street issue.
> > Not quite.
> AS IF. This is the lifeblood of Anti-terrorist squads even NOW.
> I'm surprise I have to say this:
> In SR, there would be at least 20 groups well trained, specializing in
> terrorism against their Corp/Nation.

Yes, but do they have powerful backing? Something like a nation or a
megacorp, else they'd stand little chance of getting their hands on modern
milspec gear, IMHO. Up until the early 1990s, there was always *someone*
to support terrorists, because of the global policy of supporting the
enemy of your enemy. (Do you think the Mudjahideen (sp?) would have
received Stingers and Blowpipes if they'd been fighting some little war in
which the Russians weren't involved? Where does Hezbollah get its BM-21
launchers? And so on.)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Opa is geconsumeerd en uit de maatschappij geweerd
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon response
Date:	Thu, 27 Jun 96 22:11:17 +1100

Message no. 3 >Watch PATRIOT GAMES, then think how many Nations have Space tech now, and
>count how many companies in the game are as big as the USGOVT.

No nation has space-capabilities in Shadowrun. The Russians fell apart,
the Japanese contract theirs out to corporations NOW, the European Space
Agency would have come apart with the EC, and the Americans sold theirs
to Ares. Oh, and China's fallen apart as well.

And I'm not sure that even the AAA corps are bigger than the US govt of
today. Remember, the biggest company ever, according to Corporate
Shadowfiles, is Nestle.

--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************

From:	Alex Van Der Kleut <sommers@*****.umich.edu>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon response
Date:	Thu, 27 Jun 1996 11:26:58 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 4 On Thu, 27 Jun 1996, Robert Watkins wrote:

> >Watch PATRIOT GAMES, then think how many Nations have Space tech now, and
> >count how many companies in the game are as big as the USGOVT.
>
> No nation has space-capabilities in Shadowrun. The Russians fell apart,
> the Japanese contract theirs out to corporations NOW, the European Space
> Agency would have come apart with the EC, and the Americans sold theirs
> to Ares. Oh, and China's fallen apart as well.
>

We don't know if any countries have space capability. The russians fell
apart, but got back together a few times. The japanese are working on
getting their own governmental launching capability NOW. The ESA is
mostly France and England now. The Americans sold NASA to Ares, not all
of their space capability. A friend of mine is shipping out in a month to
go to the Air Force Space Command. That would not have been sold. I'll
give you China.

And if you think about it no country today has space capability per se. A
space agency buys a rocket from a company and launches it. If a country
buys a rocket (in 2057), it just needs a place to launch from. ANd
countries do tend to have air bases.

> And I'm not sure that even the AAA corps are bigger than the US govt of
> today. Remember, the biggest company ever, according to Corporate
> Shadowfiles, is Nestle.
>

The biggest single employer today in America is the US government.
Something like 2-3 million before counting the armed forces.

Alex

From:	"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon response
Date:	Thu, 27 Jun 1996 19:12:26 +0100

Message no. 5 In message <199606271212.WAA15385@*******.peg.apc.org>, Robert Watkins
<robertdw@*******.net.au> writes
>>Watch PATRIOT GAMES, then think how many Nations have Space tech now, and
>>count how many companies in the game are as big as the USGOVT.
>
>No nation has space-capabilities in Shadowrun. The Russians fell apart,
>the Japanese contract theirs out to corporations NOW, the European Space
>Agency would have come apart with the EC, and the Americans sold theirs
>to Ares. Oh, and China's fallen apart as well.

Don't mistake launch capability for space capability. Britain has no
launchers, yet we have comms, recon and ELINT satellites. No reason the
UCAS couldn't contract out launch of its payload to whoever would get
them into orbit with the greatest reliability and most reasonable cost.

After all, a semiballistic can place LEO satellites, which is most of
the really interesting stuff anyway :) Never mind contracting a
corporate launch, just charter an airliner :)

--
"There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy."
Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

From:	Brian Johnson <john0375@****.tc.umn.edu>
Subject:	Re: DocWagon response
Date:	Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:36:30 -0500 (CDT)

Message no. 6 On Thu, 27 Jun 1996, Robert Watkins wrote:
>>Watch PATRIOT GAMES, then think how many Nations have Space tech now, and
>>count how many companies in the game are as big as the USGOVT.
>
> No nation has space-capabilities in Shadowrun. The Russians fell apart,
> the Japanese contract theirs out to corporations NOW, the European Space
> Agency would have come apart with the EC, and the Americans sold theirs
> to Ares.
!!!
> Oh, and China's fallen apart as well.
Big surprise there.

So in the Middle East(s)? And India?

And in the intervening 40 yrs, no nation put up one sattelite? Further,
companies currently tag their sattelites onto Government launches for a
fee, and aerospace companies launch missiles with paid payloads. Same goes
for the future. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to get a payload
into space. Most CO's are big enough to pay for one. ESPECIALLY MEDIA COs.

Mailing List Logs for

Further Reading

Disclaimer