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Message no. 1
From: John Velasco decor.consulting@***.servicom.es
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:32:13 +0200
I have a couple of questions.

Have any new dragons been hatched in SR? I don't remember any reference
(Drakes aside) made in anything I've had the chance to read so far. Dose
this have something to do with the level of magic in the world?

If there are any eggs kicking around are there any descriptions given? Size,
weight, colour that sort of thing.
Also could someone please give me the names and probable haunts of some
female Dragons.

Thanx.

BioNick.


-----------------------

If only you could see what I have seen with your eyes!
Message no. 2
From: Kismet kismet_sr@*****.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:45:50 -0700 (PDT)
--- John Velasco <decor.consulting@***.servicom.es>
wrote:


> If there are any eggs kicking around are there any
> descriptions given? Size,
> weight, colour that sort of thing.
> Also could someone please give me the names and
> probable haunts of some
> female Dragons.
>
There is a list of all known Great Dragons in the SR3
main rulebook. On the FASA website there is a free
earthdawn sourcebook available for download all about
dragons. It has a description of eggs and breeding and
pretty much anything you want to know about dragons. I
doubt that dragons have changed their ways so much in
a mere 7 thousand years, so you can pretty much use
the book for the dragons in SR.

Hope that helps,
Kismet


====
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Message no. 3
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:03:26 -0400
> Have any new dragons been hatched in SR? I don't remember any reference
> (Drakes aside) made in anything I've had the chance to read so far. Dose
> this have something to do with the level of magic in the world?

One of the many guesses that have been made regarding dragons [at least the
Greats] is that the mating and hatching all occurs off-cycle, during what
has been refered to as "downcycle hunting." there are no real facts to back
that up, however.

> If there are any eggs kicking around are there any descriptions given?
Size,
> weight, colour that sort of thing.

In Target: Smuggler's Havens, there is a mention of a possibility of some
Dragons' eggs existing on Madagascar, which may or may not be visited or
guarded by Harlequin.

> Also could someone please give me the names and probable haunts of some
> female Dragons.
>
Is Hestaby a chick? I forget. One of the African dragons mentioned in SR3's
Dragons and Spirits section is a female. And if Hestaby is female, she hangs
out at Mount Shasta, if I recall.

I hate to do it, but if you want some possibly acceptable information on
Dragons in general, check out http://www.fasa.com/EarthDawn/EDDragons.pdf
which is an ED sourcebook, unpublished, that gives some great information.
Things to remember; Mountainshadow is Dunkelzhan, Icewing is Alamaise,
Alamaise is Lofwyr's brother. All fun.
Message no. 4
From: Gordon McCormick gmcc@*********.ie
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:17:22 +0100
abortion_engine wrote:

> > If there are any eggs kicking around are there any descriptions given?
> Size,
> > weight, colour that sort of thing.
>
> In Target: Smuggler's Havens, there is a mention of a possibility of some
> Dragons' eggs existing on Madagascar, which may or may not be visited or
> guarded by Harlequin.

The adventure C.O.D in (I think) Shadows of the Underworld involves a
dragon egg.

gordon
Message no. 5
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:22:09 -0400
> If there are any eggs kicking around are there any descriptions given?
Size,
> weight, colour that sort of thing.

One interesting point; dragons do not care for their own eggs. Another great
does that, meaning that the eggs Harlequin may or may not be guarding are
almost certainly some of if not _the_ first to be watched be a non-dragon.
If the eggs were originally cared for by Dunkelzhan, Harlequin may be
watching them in lieu of his now-dead friend. But perhaps the female with
whom Dunkelzhan--or, for that matter, someone else--mated actually requested
that Harlequin be the one to watch the eggs. That would be a real...wow.

Read the Dragons sourcebook. It's good fun.
Message no. 6
From: Ed equine@***********.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:32:57 -0500
SPOILER BELOW FOR THOSE WHO DID NOT READ THE MESSAGE ABOUT C.O.D. in
Shadows of the Underworld.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
1
2
3
4


At 05:17 PM 10/20/99 +0100, you wrote:
>The adventure C.O.D in (I think) Shadows of the Underworld involves a
>dragon egg.

Please put spoilers in your message when you say things like this. I am
running this adventure and I hope none of my players are reading this ML
right now. Thanks.

Ed
Message no. 7
From: lomion lomion@*********.or
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:18:58 -0700
At 04:32 PM 10/20/99 +0200, you wrote:
>I have a couple of questions.
>
>Have any new dragons been hatched in SR? I don't remember any reference
>(Drakes aside) made in anything I've had the chance to read so far. Dose
>this have something to do with the level of magic in the world?
>
>If there are any eggs kicking around are there any descriptions given? Size,
>weight, colour that sort of thing.
>Also could someone please give me the names and probable haunts of some
>female Dragons.

there was a published run that dealt with a young dragon, some thing with a
matrix connection and such i forget what it was called...

--lomion
Message no. 8
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:37:10 +0200
According to John Velasco, at 16:32 on 20 Oct 99, the word on
the street was...

> Have any new dragons been hatched in SR? I don't remember any reference
> (Drakes aside) made in anything I've had the chance to read so far. Dose
> this have something to do with the level of magic in the world?
>
> If there are any eggs kicking around are there any descriptions given? Size,
> weight, colour that sort of thing.
> Also could someone please give me the names and probable haunts of some
> female Dragons.

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

I
S

H
E
R
E
.
.
.

The novel Never Trust An Elf by Robert Charrette (sp?) involves Lofwyr and
a nest of dragon's eggs, but no female dragons. I don't have the novel
here ATM (it's loaned out to a player in my group), so I can't look the
details up for you, but I do remember the eggs are laid in a nest buried
pretty deep underground.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Remember that all the items in the equipment lists are obviously
not available anywhere." --Gemini RPG, p. 100
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:37:10 +0200
According to lomion, at 10:18 on 20 Oct 99, the word on the street was...

> there was a published run that dealt with a young dragon, some thing with a
> matrix connection and such i forget what it was called...

M
O
R
E

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

You're thinking of Dragon Hunt. I'm running my group through it now
(that's what the gas question I asked two weeks ago was for), and
basically it's about a very young, great dragon who's lost his memory
through being hooked up to the Matrix. The PCs are hired to find out who
the dragon is. The adventure does not mention exactly how old the dragon
is, who his parents are, etc. It really says nothing more than that it is
a young dragon, which doesn't help much in this thread, I guess.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Remember that all the items in the equipment lists are obviously
not available anywhere." --Gemini RPG, p. 100
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: Anders Swenson anders@**********.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:58:01 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: abortion_engine <abortion_engine@*******.com>
...

> Is Hestaby a chick? I forget. One of the African dragons mentioned in
SR3's
> Dragons and Spirits section is a female. And if Hestaby is female, she
hangs
> out at Mount Shasta, if I recall.

I made Hestaby interesting in a few respects. First, she is the only female
named dragon that made it into the canon. Secondly, she is shamanic. I will
be posting information on the Dragon totem, which is followed by many Shasta
Shamans.
However, I only invite you to go up to her and call her a chick at your own
risk. --Anders
Message no. 11
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:54:50 -0400 (EDT)
Anders Swenson wrote:
> I made Hestaby interesting in a few respects. First, she is the only female
> named dragon that made it into the canon.

Hualpa is also a she.
Message no. 12
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:57:04 -0400
> > Is Hestaby a chick? I forget. One of the African dragons mentioned in
> SR3's
> > Dragons and Spirits section is a female. And if Hestaby is female, she
> hangs
> > out at Mount Shasta, if I recall.
>
> I made Hestaby interesting in a few respects. First, she is the only
female
> named dragon that made it into the canon. Secondly, she is shamanic. I
will
> be posting information on the Dragon totem, which is followed by many
Shasta
> Shamans.
> However, I only invite you to go up to her and call her a chick at your
own
> risk. --Anders
>
Don't worry; I can take her.
Message no. 13
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:29:24 -0400
> > I made Hestaby interesting in a few respects. First, she is the only
female
> > named dragon that made it into the canon.
>
I'm curious if Hestaby might be one of the dragons Dunklezahn raised; they
do sometimes keep their lairs close to those who've raised them.
Message no. 14
From: Ben Hayes bjh10@***.edu.au
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 05:53:14 +1000
> I hate to do it, but if you want some possibly acceptable information on
> Dragons in general, check out http://www.fasa.com/EarthDawn/EDDragons.pdf
> which is an ED sourcebook, unpublished, that gives some great information.
> Things to remember; Mountainshadow is Dunkelzhan, Icewing is Alamaise,
> Alamaise is Lofwyr's brother. All fun.

Icewing can't be Alamaise, since his only surviving brother in
Earthdawn(according to the Dragons supplement) was Mountainshadow ie
Dunkelzahn. Since Alamaise claimed to be Lofwyr's brother, if he is
telling the truth, we can assume he wasn't Icewing. I personally think
Lofwyr is Alamais from Earthdawn, which would explain some things about
why he is on the Council of Princes in Tir Tairngire. The only other
dragon in Dragons who would fit with Lofwyr would be Icewing, but he and
Mountainshadow seemed to be firm allies, and this didn't seem to be the
case between Lofwyr and Dunkelzahn(though who knows how many falling
outs there could have been over 5000+ years).

BTW does anyone else think ED stopped at a tantalising time with the new
set of immortal folk created by the rebel great dragon?
Message no. 15
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:08:09 -0400
> > I hate to do it, but if you want some possibly acceptable information on
> > Dragons in general, check out
http://www.fasa.com/EarthDawn/EDDragons.pdf
> > which is an ED sourcebook, unpublished, that gives some great
information.
> > Things to remember; Mountainshadow is Dunkelzhan, Icewing is Alamaise,
> > Alamaise is Lofwyr's brother. All fun.
>
> Icewing can't be Alamaise, since his only surviving brother in
> Earthdawn(according to the Dragons supplement) was Mountainshadow ie
> Dunkelzahn. Since Alamaise claimed to be Lofwyr's brother, if he is
> telling the truth, we can assume he wasn't Icewing. I personally think
> Lofwyr is Alamais from Earthdawn, which would explain some things about
> why he is on the Council of Princes in Tir Tairngire. The only other
> dragon in Dragons who would fit with Lofwyr would be Icewing, but he and
> Mountainshadow seemed to be firm allies, and this didn't seem to be the
> case between Lofwyr and Dunkelzahn(though who knows how many falling
> outs there could have been over 5000+ years).

No, I screwed up. Mountainshadow is Dunkelzahn, Icewing is Mountainshadow's
brother, but does not appear in Shadowrun. Alamaise is Alamais in Shadowrun,
and his brother is Lofwyr, who appears only once that I know of in
Earthdawn, as a reference to Alamaise's brother who lives in Vasgothia.
However, the rivalry between the two of them still exists in Shadowrun, as
Lofwyr is the CEO of Saeder-Krupp, and Alamais is part of Der Nachtmachen,
among other things.

Isn't this great stuff? Don't you wish this were still viable? Too bad so
many people got sick of it, and too bad a good game--a great game--like
Earthdawn never received the financial success it deserved.

> BTW does anyone else think ED stopped at a tantalising time with the new
> set of immortal folk created by the rebel great dragon?

Yeah, well, I hate the detah of ED for a number of reasons; the actions of
the Outcast are only one of them.
Message no. 16
From: Iridios iridios@*****.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:15:49 -0400
Anders Swenson wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: abortion_engine <abortion_engine@*******.com>
> ...
>
> > Is Hestaby a chick? I forget. One of the African dragons mentioned in
> SR3's
> > Dragons and Spirits section is a female. And if Hestaby is female, she
> hangs
> > out at Mount Shasta, if I recall.
>
> I made Hestaby interesting in a few respects. First, she is the only female
> named dragon that made it into the canon.

What about Arleesh, from "Bottled Demon". Isn't she a female named
great dragon, and aren't adventures considered canon?

--
Iridios
"Accept what you cannot avoid,
Avoid what you cannot accept."
Message no. 17
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:15:24 -0700 (PDT)
> > > Is Hestaby a chick? I forget. One of the African
dragons mentioned in SR3's Dragons and Spirits section
is a female. And if Hestaby is female, she hangs out
at Mount Shasta, if I recall.
> >
> > I made Hestaby interesting in a few respects.
First, she is the only female named dragon that made
it into the canon.
>
> What about Arleesh, from "Bottled Demon". Isn't she
a female named great dragon, and aren't adventures
considered canon?
> Iridios

1. Yes, Hestaby's a "chick".
2. Yes, Arleesh is a "chick".
3. Yes, Arleesh is canon. She has a mentioned in
Dunkelzahn's will.

There ya go.

*1. Doc' wonders just how stupid it would be to call a
girl dragon a "chick" in SR times.

2. Doc' hopes he has the opportunity to find out.

Ergo, Doc' is stupid...*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 18
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:12:46 EDT
In a message dated 10/20/1999 12:17:45 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
lomion@*********.or writes:

>
> there was a published run that dealt with a young dragon, some thing with
a
> matrix connection and such i forget what it was called...
>
ACK!!! I *had* this name just a minute ago ... ah yes ... Dragon Hunt, with
the all favorite NPC of mine ... Coinspinner...lovely trick. "Young Dragon"
was named Eliohahn (sp?).

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 19
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:14:02 EDT
In a message dated 10/20/1999 12:41:30 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.nl writes:

> > there was a published run that dealt with a young dragon, some thing with
a
>
> > matrix connection and such i forget what it was called...
>
> M
> O
> R
> E
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
> You're thinking of Dragon Hunt. I'm running my group through it now
> (that's what the gas question I asked two weeks ago was for), and
> basically it's about a very young, great dragon who's lost his memory
> through being hooked up to the Matrix. The PCs are hired to find out who
> the dragon is. The adventure does not mention exactly how old the dragon
> is, who his parents are, etc. It really says nothing more than that it is
> a young dragon, which doesn't help much in this thread, I guess.

Just a quick note, Eli is *NOT* a great dragon. He's young and he's got
potential, but he's not a Great.

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 20
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:35:58 EDT
In a message dated 10/20/1999 1:56:32 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
rtomasso@*******.com writes:

> > I made Hestaby interesting in a few respects. First, she is the only
> female
> > named dragon that made it into the canon.
>
> Hualpa is also a she.

WHAT??!!?? I have *NEVER* seen a reference for this. Richard, what or where
are you getting this one from?

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 21
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:43:19 EDT
In a message dated 10/20/1999 7:08:56 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
iridios@*****.com writes:

>
> > I made Hestaby interesting in a few respects. First, she is the only
> female
> > named dragon that made it into the canon.
>
> What about Arleesh, from "Bottled Demon". Isn't she a female named
> great dragon, and aren't adventures considered canon?

Yes, you are absolutely correct. There is also "Musashi", who is also now
Canon.

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 22
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:36:05 -0500
:there was a published run that dealt with a young dragon, some thing with a
:matrix connection and such i forget what it was called...


spoiler for, well

The adventure mentioned above is likely "Dragonhunt", the grandaddy
tailchaser of all time. "Bottled Demon" also involves a young dragon, and
there's another one described in Prime Runners, iirc.
However, none of these dragons "hatched" in the sixth world. The dragic
lifecycle makes that impossible, I think. I'm not sure what the REALLY
young ones look like, but they live under the protection of a great dragon,
generally. The "teenagers" are wyverns, despite dragonic claims to the
contrary. Then there is a chrysalis phase; most of the really "young"
shadowrun dragons (the ones who don't recall much of the 4th world) are
likely newly emerged from the chrysalis, having cocooned at the end of the
4rth.

Mongoose
Message no. 23
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:43:50 -0700 (PDT)
> :there was a published run that dealt with a young
> dragon, some thing with a
> :matrix connection and such i forget what it was
> called...
>
>
> spoiler for, well
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> The adventure mentioned above is likely
"Dragonhunt", the grandaddy tailchaser of all time.

Definitely, Mongoose. Other people have already
mentioned that.

> "Bottled Demon" also involves a young dragon, and

A LESSER dragon. Not a young dragon. Big difference
(when you're comparing Geyswain to Elio-whatsis (the
dragon from Dragonhunt)).

> there's another one described in Prime Runners,
iirc.

That's Rhonabwy - and he's a greater dragon.

> However, none of these dragons "hatched" in the
sixth world. The dragic lifecycle makes that
impossible, I think.

Are you saying that the level of magic is high enough
to WAKE dragons, but not to hatch young ones?

> I'm not sure what the REALLY young ones look like,
but they live under the protection of a great dragon,
generally. The "teenagers" are wyverns, despite
dragonic claims to the contrary. Then there is a
chrysalis phase; most of the really "young" shadowrun
dragons (the ones who don't recall much of the 4th
world) are likely newly emerged from the chrysalis,
having cocooned at the end of the 4rth.
> Mongoose

Is this all from the Dragons sourcebook? If not, where
are you getting your material, Mongoose?

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 24
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 01:10:45 -0700
Mongoose Said:
<SNIP>
>> However, none of these dragons "hatched" in the
>>sixth world. The dragic lifecycle makes that
>>impossible, I think.

On Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Rand
Ratinac?<docwagon101@*****.com> writes:
> Are you saying that the level of magic is high enough
> to WAKE dragons, but not to hatch young ones?
<SNIP>

I think what he meant was that a dragon could not have hatched and grown
to great status since the awakening. Hmmmm ... I wonder if the wyverns
are newborn dragons?

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx


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Message no. 25
From: Elindor Quinn rjakins@******.murdoch.edu.au
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:16:24 +0800
dghost@****.com indicated Re: Do Dragons get the urge?

> I think what he meant was that a dragon could not have hatched and grown
> to great status since the awakening. Hmmmm ... I wonder if the wyverns
> are newborn dragons?

The Wyverns are adolecent dragons. Stated in the Earthdawn
sourcebook (unpublished) Dragons.

Elindor Quinn
Someone told me that each equation I included in the
book would halve the sales
- Stephen Hawking
Message no. 26
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:32:00 -0700 (PDT)
> Mongoose Said:
> <SNIP>
> >> However, none of these dragons "hatched" in
the sixth world. The dragic lifecycle makes that
impossible, I think.
>
> <docwagon101@*****.com> writes:
> > Are you saying that the level of magic is high
enough to WAKE dragons, but not to hatch young ones?
> <SNIP>
>
> I think what he meant was that a dragon could not
have hatched and grown to great status since the
awakening. Hmmmm ... I wonder if the wyverns are
newborn dragons?
> D. Ghost

Oh, uh...

<scan wording>

Yeah, that would be it.

Oops. :)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 27
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 03:13:10 -0500
:> :there was a published run that dealt with a young
:> dragon, some thing with a
:> :matrix connection and such i forget what it was
:> called...
:>
:>
:> spoiler for, well
:> :> :> :> :> :> :> :> :> :> :> :> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> :> :>
:> However, none of these dragons "hatched" in the
:sixth world. The dragic lifecycle makes that
:impossible, I think.
:
:Are you saying that the level of magic is high enough
:to WAKE dragons, but not to hatch young ones?

See below- I'm saying nobody would see them, or recognize them as
dragons, if they had hatched in the sixth world.

:> I'm not sure what the REALLY young ones look like,
:but they live under the protection of a great dragon,
:generally. The "teenagers" are wyverns, despite
:dragonic claims to the contrary. Then there is a
:chrysalis phase; most of the really "young" shadowrun
:dragons (the ones who don't recall much of the 4th
:world) are likely newly emerged from the chrysalis,
:having cocooned at the end of the 4rth.
:> Mongoose
:
:Is this all from the Dragons sourcebook? If not, where
:are you getting your material, Mongoose?

From the dragons sourcebook, and conversations on the EDML. LJP
confirmed that wyverns were dragonic youngsters, not that the Dragons book
left to much doubt. Well, it left just barely enough for me, but I'm from
"the show me state".

Mongoose
Message no. 28
From: Carsten Gehling alvion@****.uni2.dk
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:19:22 +0100
From: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 6:37 PM

> > If there are any eggs kicking around are there any descriptions given?
Size,
> > weight, colour that sort of thing.
> > Also could someone please give me the names and probable haunts of some
> > female Dragons.
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
> I
> S
>
> H
> E
> R
> E
> .
> .
> .
>
> The novel Never Trust An Elf by Robert Charrette (sp?) involves Lofwyr and
> a nest of dragon's eggs, but no female dragons. I don't have the novel
> here ATM (it's loaned out to a player in my group), so I can't look the
> details up for you, but I do remember the eggs are laid in a nest buried
> pretty deep underground.

And protected with pretty heavy magic. The whole point of the story is to
get the powerful magic crystal that can break the wards around the nest.

- Carsten

Offlist email: carsten@*******.dk
<===============================>
"Some day, when I become Supreme Ruler of Earth, I'll order everybody to go
outside once a day, and run around with their mouths open."
"Because you support fresh air and exercise?"
"No, because I hate flies."
<===============================>
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Message no. 29
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:29:10 +0200
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 6:37 PM
>
> > > If there are any eggs kicking around are there any descriptions given?
> Size,
> > > weight, colour that sort of thing.
> > > Also could someone please give me the names and probable haunts of
some
> > > female Dragons.
> >
> > S
> > P
> > O
> > I
> > L
> > E
> > R
> >
> > S
> > P
> > A
> > C
> > E
> >
> > I
> > S
> >
> > H
> > E
> > R
> > E
> > .
> > .
> > .
> >
> > The novel Never Trust An Elf by Robert Charrette (sp?) involves Lofwyr
and
> > a nest of dragon's eggs, but no female dragons. I don't have the novel
> > here ATM (it's loaned out to a player in my group), so I can't look the
> > details up for you, but I do remember the eggs are laid in a nest buried
> > pretty deep underground.
>
> And protected with pretty heavy magic. The whole point of the story is to
> get the powerful magic crystal that can break the wards around the nest.

I just finished reading the book and I don't remember it being deep under
the ground though. It was somewhere in the forest surrounding the Shalish
Shidhe and the nest *was* burried underground but as I interpreted the story
it wasn't all that deep.

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is,..."
- John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 30
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:56:13 +0200
According to Ereskanti@***.com, at 23:12 on 20 Oct 99, the word on the
street was...

> > there was a published run that dealt with a young dragon, some thing with a
> > matrix connection and such i forget what it was called...
> >
> ACK!!! I *had* this name just a minute ago ... ah yes ... Dragon Hunt, with
> the all favorite NPC of mine ... Coinspinner...lovely trick. "Young
Dragon"
> was named Eliohahn (sp?).

Thank you... :/ I just hope my players don't read this, as that's the name
they've been hunting for for five weeks now...

In other words, please use spoiler space when talking about the important
parts of adventures.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Remember that all the items in the equipment lists are obviously
not available anywhere." --Gemini RPG, p. 100
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 31
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:56:13 +0200
According to Ereskanti@***.com, at 23:14 on 20 Oct 99, the word on
the street was...

> > M
> > O
> > R
> > E
> >
> > S
> > P
> > O
> > I
> > L
> > E
> > R
> >
> > S
> > P
> > A
> > C
> > E
> >
> > You're thinking of Dragon Hunt. I'm running my group through it now
> > (that's what the gas question I asked two weeks ago was for), and
> > basically it's about a very young, great dragon who's lost his memory
> > through being hooked up to the Matrix. The PCs are hired to find out who
> > the dragon is. The adventure does not mention exactly how old the dragon
> > is, who his parents are, etc. It really says nothing more than that it is
> > a young dragon, which doesn't help much in this thread, I guess.
>
> Just a quick note, Eli is *NOT* a great dragon. He's young and he's got
> potential, but he's not a Great.

You're right, he awakened three years before the adventure is set (late
2051) but is "gifted with a level of intelligence and magical ability
usually found among only the greater of his species." Too bad we never got
to find out what happened to him after the adventure.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Remember that all the items in the equipment lists are obviously
not available anywhere." --Gemini RPG, p. 100
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 32
From: John Velasco decor.consulting@***.servicom.es
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:23:28 +0200
Thank you all for your help with the Dragon eggs. I've just down loaded the
EDDragons.pdf which should make for a good read this evening .

Now I need ideas and opinions with a related idea I've been playing around
with for sometime. Would it be possible for an insect spirit to infect a
Dragon egg in the same way they take Meta human hosts?

How hard would it be to spot the infected hosts funky aura and would it be
able to mask it's true identity from other Dragons?

All help greatly appreciated.

BioNick.


-----------------------

If only you could see what I have seen with your eyes!
Message no. 33
From: Raije murk@****.org.au
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:35:43 +1000
> *1. Doc' wonders just how stupid it would be to call a
> girl dragon a "chick" in SR times.
>
> 2. Doc' hopes he has the opportunity to find out.
>
> Ergo, Doc' is stupid...*

Doc betta be a dragon...heh...I think I'll plan a break-in of the SK matrix
host and crack the sound systems....

"Lofwyr is a Chump! Lofwyr is a chump! Lofwyr is a chump! Lofwyr is a..."
you get the idea...

Methinks I might have to move planets after that...

_____________________sabrepunk@**********.net_
Raije
sabrepunk@**********.net
UIN-2799894
~Simple Guide to Cyberpunk~
http://gateway.to/cyberpunk/
"Shit Happens, So Carry Toilet Paper"
Message no. 34
From: Raije murk@****.org.au
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:43:15 +1000
> Yes, you are absolutely correct. There is also "Musashi", who is also now
> Canon.

musashi? That's an energy bar dammit!

_____________________sabrepunk@**********.net_
Raije
sabrepunk@**********.net
UIN-2799894
~Simple Guide to Cyberpunk~
http://gateway.to/cyberpunk/
"Shit Happens, So Carry Toilet Paper"
Message no. 35
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:32:40 -0700
On Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:16:24 +0800 "Elindor Quinn"
<rjakins@******.murdoch.edu.au> writes:
> dghost@****.com indicated Re: Do Dragons get the urge?
>
> > I think what he meant was that a dragon could not have hatched and
grown
> > to great status since the awakening. Hmmmm ... I wonder if the
wyverns
> > are newborn dragons?

> The Wyverns are adolecent dragons. Stated in the Earthdawn
> sourcebook (unpublished) Dragons.

I checked before I posted. I only skimmed so I may be mistaken, however,
the human in the book compared them to /Hatchlings/, s I thought the
implication was that they were Hatchling Dragons ...

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 36
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:16:55 -0400
> > I think what he meant was that a dragon could not have hatched and grown
> > to great status since the awakening. Hmmmm ... I wonder if the wyverns
> > are newborn dragons?
>
> The Wyverns are adolecent dragons. Stated in the Earthdawn
> sourcebook (unpublished) Dragons.
>
Now that is patently untrue. It was never, ever, *stated*. :)
Message no. 37
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:21:03 -0400
> Thank you all for your help with the Dragon eggs. I've just down loaded
the
> EDDragons.pdf which should make for a good read this evening .
>
> Now I need ideas and opinions with a related idea I've been playing around
> with for sometime. Would it be possible for an insect spirit to infect a
> Dragon egg in the same way they take Meta human hosts?

I will e-mail you privately on this issue.
Message no. 38
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:26:04 -0400
> Thank you all for your help with the Dragon eggs. I've just down loaded
the
> EDDragons.pdf which should make for a good read this evening .
>
> Now I need ideas and opinions with a related idea I've been playing around
> with for sometime. Would it be possible for an insect spirit to infect a
> Dragon egg in the same way they take Meta human hosts?
>
> How hard would it be to spot the infected hosts funky aura and would it be
> able to mask it's true identity from other Dragons?

No, I won't e-mail you privately. That'd be rude.

There was a member of this list who ran an enormous run just like that
recently that he'd mentioned to me in private. His name was Jakob, and his
e-mail address is steel_machine@*******.com. I would talk to him about it;
supposedly, that guy is a hell of a GM. The run sounded unbelievably cool.

Personal note: this guy is pretty tough to talk to. If he's rude, just
ignore it. That seems to be just the way he is. But he's f-ing brilliant.
Message no. 39
From: Airwasp@***.com Airwasp@***.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:55:13 EDT
In a message dated 10/20/99 1:05:56 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
anders@**********.com writes:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: abortion_engine <abortion_engine@*******.com>
> ...
>
> > Is Hestaby a chick? I forget. One of the African dragons mentioned in
> SR3's
> > Dragons and Spirits section is a female. And if Hestaby is female, she
> hangs
> > out at Mount Shasta, if I recall.
>
> I made Hestaby interesting in a few respects. First, she is the only
female
> named dragon that made it into the canon. Secondly, she is shamanic. I will
> be posting information on the Dragon totem, which is followed by many
Shasta
> Shamans.
> However, I only invite you to go up to her and call her a chick at your own
> risk. --Anders

I would calmly like to remind everyone that Arleesh is the first female great
dragon to awaken in this age ... "Bottled Demon."

-Mike
Message no. 40
From: Airwasp@***.com Airwasp@***.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:04:27 EDT
In a message dated 10/20/99 1:56:32 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
rtomasso@*******.com writes:

> Anders Swenson wrote:
> > I made Hestaby interesting in a few respects. First, she is the only
> female
> > named dragon that made it into the canon.
>
> Hualpa is also a she.

Hualpa is male and is Arleesh's brother ... though I don't know if they both
come from the same clutch of eggs though.

-Mike
Message no. 41
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:14:46 -0400 (EDT)
Airwasp@***.com wrote:
> > > I made Hestaby interesting in a few respects. First, she is the only
> > > female named dragon that made it into the canon.
> >
> > Hualpa is also a she.
>
> Hualpa is male and is Arleesh's brother ... though I don't know if they both
> come from the same clutch of eggs though.

Where did you read this? I recall seeing Hualpa referened as a she.
Message no. 42
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:51:44 EDT
In a message dated 10/21/1999 2:50:13 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
m0ng005e@*****.com writes:

> From the dragons sourcebook, and conversations on the EDML. LJP
> confirmed that wyverns were dragonic youngsters, not that the Dragons book
> left to much doubt. Well, it left just barely enough for me, but I'm from
> "the show me state".

As we've now left the entire need for spoilers behind again, I'm removing
them. LJP eh? Hmm... interesting. Me personally, I think that *this*
little part of "Dragon Lifecycles" could be left out completely for SR's
purpose. IF SR's writers had at any time decided they wanted this kind of a
connection to exist between Dragons and Wyverns, then you'd think they would
have mentioned it somewhere for our collective benefit.

As it is now, I can't seem to recall anything out there for a Wyvern's
political protection.

Geesh, now I *REALLY* begin to see why Mike dislikes the ED - SR crossover
thing ....

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 43
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:56:29 EDT
In a message dated 10/21/1999 5:12:42 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.nl writes:

>
> According to Ereskanti@***.com, at 23:14 on 20 Oct 99, the word on
> the street was...
>
> > > M
> > > O
> > > R
> > > E
> > >
> > > S
> > > P
> > > O
> > > I
> > > L
> > > E
> > > R
> > >
> > > S
> > > P
> > > A
> > > C
> > > E
> > >
> > > You're thinking of Dragon Hunt. I'm running my group through it now
> > > (that's what the gas question I asked two weeks ago was for), and
> > > basically it's about a very young, great dragon who's lost his memory
> > > through being hooked up to the Matrix. The PCs are hired to find out
> who
> > > the dragon is. The adventure does not mention exactly how old the
> dragon
> > > is, who his parents are, etc. It really says nothing more than that
it
> is
> > > a young dragon, which doesn't help much in this thread, I guess.
> >
> > Just a quick note, Eli is *NOT* a great dragon. He's young and he's got
> > potential, but he's not a Great.
>
> You're right, he awakened three years before the adventure is set (late
> 2051) but is "gifted with a level of intelligence and magical ability
> usually found among only the greater of his species." Too bad we never got
> to find out what happened to him after the adventure.

IIRC, we are at least led to believe that Eli's fate is in the hands of some
unnamed megacorporate involvement. In our games, Dunkelzahn arranged for his
final departure, and the only reason the group knows this is because the
Decker spent an innordinate amount of personal resources trying to find out,
and when he was confronted by another decker (I can now look back and imagine
it might have been Jane-in-a-Box), he said "because I actually liked him" and
the response from the decker was ... he's being relocated to Lake Louise ...

Blackwing and his group was run-to-ground by the group here at the time, and
led to one of those most dramatically well played "Climax Endings" of any
game I've had to date. Imagine a showdown being forced in the "Eye of the
Needle" restaurant???

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 44
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:01:23 EDT
In a message dated 10/21/1999 5:26:35 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
decor.consulting@***.servicom.es writes:

> Thank you all for your help with the Dragon eggs. I've just down loaded the
> EDDragons.pdf which should make for a good read this evening .

John, I'd only request that you just use it as consideration for material for
your games, and not rule. The stuff was meant for Earthdawn, obviously not
for Shadowrun.

> Now I need ideas and opinions with a related idea I've been playing around
> with for sometime. Would it be possible for an insect spirit to infect a
> Dragon egg in the same way they take Meta human hosts?

*IN THEORY*, yes it could be done. In practice, OMG what a mess this would
create. It would take more strength (magically) than would ever be applied
to a projected host than anything heard of to date.

Then there is always the chance of running aground any other dracoforms that
*may* come to hear of this atrocity and decide to become directly involved
and bring whatever resources they have to bare.

> How hard would it be to spot the infected hosts funky aura and would it be
> able to mask it's true identity from other Dragons?

Doubtful in the long run. Biggest reason IMO is that most dragons have some
form of telepathic presence to them as well as all the other "body language
cues" (such as scent). All of the draconic effects would be either missing
or tampered/altered from the norm in some way.

there *IS* one way to hide the aura from even Dragons, and in fact it would
be almost a guarantee to work. It's in MitS (and Grimoire), especially
considering the concept of "Insect Metaplanes".

> All help greatly appreciated.

I'm not sure if you're welcome is a suitable phrase here or not. I do
concede, just stopping the merger attempt from happening would make an
AWESOME game of "Beat the Clock".

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 45
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:11:01 EDT
In a message dated 10/21/1999 10:16:25 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
rtomasso@*******.com writes:

>
> > Hualpa is male and is Arleesh's brother ... though I don't know if they
> both
> > come from the same clutch of eggs though.
>
> Where did you read this? I recall seeing Hualpa referened as a she.

I am looking for it myself, and would *really* like your reference for Hualpa
being described as a "she" myself Richard.

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 46
From: lomion lomion@*********.or
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:34:02 -0700
>
>I would calmly like to remind everyone that Arleesh is the first female great
>dragon to awaken in this age ... "Bottled Demon."

An aside if they get the urge..whats it like when they do it? Is that the
cause of those 7.0 earthquakes?
Yes I had to go there...

--lomion
Message no. 47
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:52:03 -0500
:> From the dragons sourcebook, and conversations on the EDML. LJP
:> confirmed that wyverns were dragonic youngsters, not that the Dragons
book
:> left to much doubt. Well, it left just barely enough for me, but I'm
from
:> "the show me state".
:
:As we've now left the entire need for spoilers behind again, I'm removing
:them. LJP eh? Hmm... interesting. Me personally, I think that *this*
:little part of "Dragon Lifecycles" could be left out completely for SR's
:purpose. IF SR's writers had at any time decided they wanted this kind of
a
:connection to exist between Dragons and Wyverns, then you'd think they
would
:have mentioned it somewhere for our collective benefit.

Paranomal Animals of North America "Commentary" on the Wyvern leads me
to suspect that the idea has been integrated into Shadowrun for a while.
There was a similar sentiment in the "Creatures of Barsiave" book. In fact,
I took the "patersons guide" info as pretty strong support for a wyvern /
dragon link, all on its own. Hmm, now, I wonder what they lifecycle of a
gargoyle is like?

:As it is now, I can't seem to recall anything out there for a Wyvern's
:political protection.

There is no such protection in ED, either. In fact, Wyvern skin cloaks
are fasionable atire in the courts of Troal, and Throal maintains positive
relations with several dragons.
I don't think it makes any sense to anthropomorphise the dragons view of
Wyverns; it may be based on traditions, instincts, or phisiology that makes
no sense to us. Which, actually, I think is pretty damn cool; Dragons
should NOT be easy to understand.

By the way, are there any NON-great female dragons, or mention of young
females? I'm wondering (purley speculatively) if its possible that dragons
change gender at some point. Seems unlikely, but so did the wyvern / dragon
link...

Mongoose
Message no. 48
From: Anders Swenson anders@**********.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:07:03 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: Iridios <iridios@*****.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: Do Dragons get the urge?


Original Message -----
> > From: abortion_engine <abortion_engine@*******.com>
> > ...
> >
> > > Is Hestaby a chick? I forget. One of the African dragons mentioned in
SR3's Dragons and Spirits section is a female. And if Hestaby is female,
she hangs out at Mount Shasta, if I recall.
> >
> > I made Hestaby interesting in a few respects. First, she is the only
female named dragon that made it into the canon.
>
> What about Arleesh, from "Bottled Demon". Isn't she a female named
> great dragon, and aren't adventures considered canon?

> Iridios

No, that dracoform is a Great Feathered Serpant, somewhat
different. --Anders
Message no. 49
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Do Dragons get the urge?
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:48:16 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > Is Hestaby a chick? I forget. One of the
> African dragons mentioned in
> SR3's Dragons and Spirits section is a female. And
> if Hestaby is female,
> she hangs out at Mount Shasta, if I recall.
> > >
> > > I made Hestaby interesting in a few respects.
> First, she is the only
> female named dragon that made it into the canon.
> >
> > What about Arleesh, from "Bottled Demon". Isn't
> she a female named
> > great dragon, and aren't adventures considered
> canon?
>
> > Iridios
>
> No, that dracoform is a Great Feathered Serpant,
> somewhat
> different. --Anders

Not to be pedantic, Anders, but according to the
rules, yes, she IS a great dragon. However, if you'd
said great WESTERN dragon, you'd be right.

*Doc' looks in the back of his wardrobe for the secret
compartment where he keeps his Pedant Man suit...*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Thwap!