Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:07:27 +0100

Message no. 1 If I were an American, I'd probably call this a tradition, as this is
the second time after returning from a GenCon that I ask the list
about the colors of a specific dragon -- last year it was the Big D,
this time it's Lofwyr.

I know there was a bit of a debate about this very question a few
months back, but at the time I didn't have much of an interest in
it. Now, however, I own Ral Partha's 25 mm figure of Lofwyr and
need to paint it in the right colors. So, does anyone have any
definite pointers to the right colors for this dragon (quote the
source if you know it).

For one thing, I seem to recall seeing a piece of color artwork at
GC that showed a red-brown dragon and that had "Lofwyr"
written on it somewhere; it might have been among the original
artwork that was for sale at FASA's booth, but I'm not sure...

Also, looking into Corporate Shadowfiles now, there's a negative
image of Lofwyr there (on one of the color pages), and since it's
purple it might very well be that Lofwyr is red. Still, does anyone
have any better sources than this?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wanted: New signature line. Good prices paid. LTG# 3111 (856-6006)
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 06:28:35 -0500

Message no. 2 On Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:07:27 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>If I were an American, I'd probably call this a tradition, as this is
>the second time after returning from a GenCon that I ask the list
>about the colors of a specific dragon -- last year it was the Big D,
>this time it's Lofwyr.
<SNIP>
>--
>Gurth@******.nl -
<SNIP Sig>

Paint him ... Fuscia!

But seriously, I've seen a FASA minature called "Corporate Dragon" at
local game store. It was REALLY dusty so it might be prety old. Anyway,
on the box, the dragon (Lowfyr is the only corporate drgon -I- know of :)
is a muddy red-brown. Threats might have the color listed ... Can't find
one in a quick scan through the US Germany SB but you've got two more
Germany SBs than I do ... I dunno where else it might be ... Sorry :/

You could always E-mail the DLoH ... :)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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From:	Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject:	Dragon colors -Reply
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:03:45 -0400

Message no. 3 >For one thing, I seem to recall seeing a piece of color artwork at
>GC that showed a red-brown dragon and that had "Lofwyr"
>written on it somewhere; it might have been among the original
>artwork that was for sale at FASA's booth, but I'm not sure...

I wasn't there, but I remember Shadowrat bought it, and has
the image on his Gencon page. (Incredible picture).
It's a big picture of the image from the Tir Taingire book.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 378-1939
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633

From:	Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:46:11 -0500

Message no. 4 >For one thing, I seem to recall seeing a piece of color artwork at
>GC that showed a red-brown dragon and that had "Lofwyr"
>written on it somewhere; it might have been among the original
>artwork that was for sale at FASA's booth, but I'm not sure...

Seem to recall a plate in TIR TAIRNGIRE with him being reddish-brown...
<lumbers over to shelves, flips through TT> Right, it's the third color
plate between pages 32 and 33 in TIR TAIRNGIRE, and it's a definite
reddish-brown.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	"Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:07:21 -0400

Message no. 5 Gurth wrote:
> Also, looking into Corporate Shadowfiles now, there's a negative
> image of Lofwyr there (on one of the color pages), and since it's
> purple it might very well be that Lofwyr is red. Still, does anyone
> have any better sources than this?
>
Well, if the negative is purple that would make Lofwyr green, wouldn't
it?

James Ojaste

From:	Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:56:37 -0700

Message no. 6 At 10:07 9/1/98 +0100, you wrote:
>If I were an American, I'd probably call this a tradition, as this is
>the second time after returning from a GenCon that I ask the list
>about the colors of a specific dragon -- last year it was the Big D,
>this time it's Lofwyr.
>
>I know there was a bit of a debate about this very question a few
>months back, but at the time I didn't have much of an interest in
>it. Now, however, I own Ral Partha's 25 mm figure of Lofwyr and
>need to paint it in the right colors. So, does anyone have any
>definite pointers to the right colors for this dragon (quote the
>source if you know it).

There's a pic of him in Tir Tairngire, which I recall to be bronzeish
in color.

I'm still trying to figure out what Hestaby's color is; the portrait
of her as "Hestaby, Spawn of Evil" I don't take to be too accurate.
I'm using ivory for descriptions right now...

--
%% Max Rible %%% max@********.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Ham is good... Glowing *tattooed* ham is *bad*!" - the Tick %%

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:08:13 +0200

Message no. 7 Ojaste,James [NCR] said on 10:07/1 Sep 98,...

> Well, if the negative is purple that would make Lofwyr green, wouldn't
> it?

Probably, yeah... I've never been good at negative colors :) Maybe I
should scan it and see what comes out when I invert it. Hmm...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors -Reply
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:08:13 +0200

Message no. 8 Lehlan Decker said on 9:03/1 Sep 98,...

> >For one thing, I seem to recall seeing a piece of color artwork at
> >GC that showed a red-brown dragon and that had "Lofwyr"
> >written on it somewhere; it might have been among the original
> >artwork that was for sale at FASA's booth, but I'm not sure...
>
> I wasn't there, but I remember Shadowrat bought it, and has
> the image on his Gencon page. (Incredible picture).
> It's a big picture of the image from the Tir Taingire book.

Yes! I _knew_ I'd seen that somewhere before when I looked at it at GC!.
Now you mention it, it is in the color section of the Tir Tairngire book
(so those pages are useful for something after all... :) This gives me
something I can use as a painting guide. Thanks!

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors -Reply
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:42:38 -0400

Message no. 9 In a item in his will, Dunklezahn leaves an arrow of red-dragon slaying to
whoever finds out what's behind door XX in SK's Berlin office and tells
Lofywr.

FWIW

Ian Silvercat claims the above in the name of himself!
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security - Benjamin Franklin
That which does not exist has never been named - Mirumoto Nohito
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
Homepage : http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~jhurley1

From:	Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:47:52 -0400

Message no. 10 Alfredo B Alves wrote:

> Threats might have the color listed ...

I don't believe Threats has the colors listed. Threats doesn't have much
to say on dragons at all, IIRC.

--Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>

"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm

From:	Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:55:27 -0400

Message no. 11 >In a item in his will, Dunklezahn leaves an arrow of red-dragon
>slaying to
>whoever finds out what's behind door XX in SK's Berlin office
>and tells Lofywr.

Yep that is in his will as well. I think we've had a large
speculation on what a red dragon slaying arrow was in the
past. :)
A personal visit from Lofywr, is not something I'd wish on
anybody.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 378-1939
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633

From:	Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors -Reply
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:22:19 -0400

Message no. 12 >I don't believe Threats has the colors listed. Threats doesn't
have >much to say on dragons at all, IIRC.

I'm not sure about it listing the color, but there are several
pages devote to Lofwyr, and how if you deal with him, you
will always, always loose in the end. Dealing with him is a no
win situation.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 378-1939
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633

From:	Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors -Reply
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:21:39 -0400

Message no. 13 Lehlan Decker wrote:
>
> >I don't believe Threats has the colors listed. Threats doesn't
> have >much to say on dragons at all, IIRC.
>
> I'm not sure about it listing the color, but there are several
> pages devote to Lofwyr, and how if you deal with him, you
> will always, always loose in the end. Dealing with him is a no
> win situation.

D'oh. I'll have to reread Threats, then, won't I. :) It HAS been a
while...

--Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>

"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm

From:	Stefan <casanova@***.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors -Reply
Date:	Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:55:45 +0000

Message no. 14 > >For one thing, I seem to recall seeing a piece of color artwork at
> >GC that showed a red-brown dragon and that had "Lofwyr"
> >written on it somewhere; it might have been among the original
> >artwork that was for sale at FASA's booth, but I'm not sure...

For some unknown reason I always pictured Lofwyr as beeing a black
dragon. Hmmm wonder where I got that from ?

There is that dragon with a digital watch sold as a figure but I
can't recall what dragon that is ... it is a corp dragon so it could
be Lofwyr but then it doesn't have to be. There are other dragons who
have worked for corps or organisations so it could be one of them.

One can wonder why Dunkelzahn would give away an arrow of red dragon
thou if Lofwyr wasn't a red dragon.. Cause if you snoop in his house
your going to need it .. badly ...

Talking about Lowfyr, I loved the description of Lofwyr in
Technobabel :) My folks thought I was more nuts than usually lying
there with a book laughing out loud...

So Lowfyr is going to be the dragon that takes D's place as the most
important dragon in our world.

/Stefan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage .............................. http://hsl.home.ml.org ...
... HomePage ................... http://www.bugsoft.hik.se/sl11ls/ ...
... ICQ .................................................. 1403212 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:00:50 EDT

Message no. 15 In a message dated 9/1/98 1:14:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gurth@******.NL
writes:

>
> I know there was a bit of a debate about this very question a few
> months back, but at the time I didn't have much of an interest in
> it. Now, however, I own Ral Partha's 25 mm figure of Lofwyr and
> need to paint it in the right colors. So, does anyone have any
> definite pointers to the right colors for this dragon (quote the
> source if you know it).
>
Lofwyr has a color plate in Tir Tairngire he is brown. The negative in Corp
was the negative of this pic.

From:	Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:56:07 -0500

Message no. 16 >A personal visit from Lofywr, is not something I'd wish on
>anybody.

I dunno...it might be interesting under the right circumstances. I wonder
how Dunkelzahn knows that Lofwyr will visit the lucky winner, though.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:05:14 -0400

Message no. 17 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 08:56 PM 9/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I dunno...it might be interesting under the right circumstances. I
wonder
>how Dunkelzahn knows that Lofwyr will visit the lucky winner, though.

Actually, If I remember the will, the winner has to visit Lofwyr
anyway.
It's part of the clause.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

From:	Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:09:54 -0500

Message no. 18 >>I dunno...it might be interesting under the right circumstances. I
>>wonder how Dunkelzahn knows that Lofwyr will visit the lucky winner,
>>though.
>
>Actually, If I remember the will, the winner has to visit Lofwyr
>anyway. It's part of the clause.

I'm not sure if we're looking at the same bequest, Paul. The one I was
looking at was towards the end of the first column on page 29 (it's the
next-to-last bequest in that column), where the lucky winner is left 4
Zurich-Orbital accounts and a personal visit from Lofwyr.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:27:53 -0400

Message no. 19 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 09:09 PM 9/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Actually, If I remember the will, the winner has to visit Lofwyr
>>anyway. It's part of the clause.
>
>I'm not sure if we're looking at the same bequest, Paul. The one I
was
>looking at was towards the end of the first column on page 29 (it's
the
>next-to-last bequest in that column), where the lucky winner is left
4
>Zurich-Orbital accounts and a personal visit from Lofwyr.

Oh, that one. I thought we were talking about the Arrow of Red Dragon
Slaying. (middle of p. 32.)

As for the one on p 29, the personal visit from Lofwyr is probably
just that Lofwyr would probably be first in line for the Dragon
Datajack.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

From:	"Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors -Reply
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:00:56 -0400

Message no. 20 I beleive that Lofwyr is a golden red.
Something along the lines of a deep copper perhaps.
He's definately red in some way, since in PoaD D' leaves the Arrow of Red
Dragon Salying to him as a joke.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://listen.to/Tinner
"Save the whales! Trade them for valuable prizes."

From:	Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:58:42 -0500

Message no. 21 >Oh, that one. I thought we were talking about the Arrow of Red Dragon
>Slaying. (middle of p. 32.)

Probably were; it's a good chance I was conflating the two in my mind.
Wouldn't be the first time.

>As for the one on p 29, the personal visit from Lofwyr is probably
>just that Lofwyr would probably be first in line for the Dragon
>Datajack.

This begs the question(s)...would cybersurgery on a dragon cause him to lose
a Magic point, and would he, after all these years, likely even notice? And
would it affect his ability to assume a human form? I mean, he does it via
magic, not a were's shapeshifting ability, so I wouldn't think it would
interfere, but....

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:11:01 EDT

Message no. 22 In a message dated 9/1/98 8:01:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, remo@***.NET
writes:

>
> This begs the question(s)...would cybersurgery on a dragon cause him to
lose
> a Magic point, and would he, after all these years, likely even notice?
And
> would it affect his ability to assume a human form? I mean, he does it via
> magic, not a were's shapeshifting ability, so I wouldn't think it would
> interfere, but....
as you say, it is a spell, so they would probably be affected just like any
other cybered guy hit with a shapechange spell.
If they existed anymore, you do realise all the shapechanging spells are
missing, right?
(Kenson already said they woukd be in MitS I think <shrug>)

From:	Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:13:16 EDT

Message no. 23 In a message dated 9/1/98 7:28:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
RunnerPaul@*****.COM writes:

>
> As for the one on p 29, the personal visit from Lofwyr is probably
> just that Lofwyr would probably be first in line for the Dragon
> Datajack.
actually, Lofwyr would probably get more than one, he semms to like multi-
tasking already :-) (that is in reference to the fun scene from technobabel)

From:	Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:15:42 EDT

Message no. 24 In a message dated 9/1/98 7:12:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, remo@***.NET
writes:

> I'm not sure if we're looking at the same bequest, Paul. The one I was
> looking at was towards the end of the first column on page 29 (it's the
> next-to-last bequest in that column), where the lucky winner is left 4
> Zurich-Orbital accounts and a personal visit from Lofwyr.
and the next bequest is the Jewel of Memory, perhaps Lofwyr's payment?
It could also involve concessions from the draco Foudnation, since I also
believe there to be more than just what was printed (sorta a private will
also) at least that is how I run it in my game, so that I can tie the players
in, without having to slip one of the references from the list.

From:	Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:59:57 -0500

Message no. 25 ----------
> From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>

> >>I dunno...it might be interesting under the right circumstances. I
> >>wonder how Dunkelzahn knows that Lofwyr will visit the lucky winner,
> >>though.
> >
> >Actually, If I remember the will, the winner has to visit Lofwyr
> >anyway. It's part of the clause.
>
> I'm not sure if we're looking at the same bequest, Paul. The one I was
> looking at was towards the end of the first column on page 29 (it's the
> next-to-last bequest in that column), where the lucky winner is left 4
> Zurich-Orbital accounts and a personal visit from Lofwyr.

Think about it. Aside from the Big D, who else amongst the Great Dragons
is going to be interested in an efficient Matrix hook-up for dragons?
Note that it says "dolphins, elephants and/or satyrs, AND (my emphasis)
dragons." Ok, yes, the other dragons will be interested. But don't you
think Lofwyr, who likely has a huge amount of resources that are
Matrix-based, and could build a damn fortune on controlling the tech that
lets other dragons on line, would be interested enough to visit
personally?

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
If we shadows have offended,
Think but this, and all is mended,
That you have but slumbered here
While these visions did appear.
And this weak and idle theme,
No more yeilding but a dream,
Gentles, do not reprehend.
If you pardon, we will mend.
-
So good night unto you all.
Give me your hands, if we be friends,
And Robin shall restore amends.
-Puck "A Midsummer Night's Dream"

From:	"Mark C. Farrington" <alareth@*****.DWEBS.NET>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:14:54 -0400

Message no. 26 >Think about it. Aside from the Big D, who else amongst the Great Dragons
>is going to be interested in an efficient Matrix hook-up for dragons?

The Dragon Datajack must already be out in limited supply because there are
several post in various source books by "The Orange Queen" who claims to be
a dragon.

Alareth - Acolyte of the First Church of the Squooshy Ball
Investigator, Shadowrun Webring Internal Affairs
The Shiny Happy Gaming Group - http://www.dwebs.net/~alareth
ICQ UIN - 11468823

From:	Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:21:10 -0500

Message no. 27 >>Think about it. Aside from the Big D, who else amongst the Great Dragons
>>is going to be interested in an efficient Matrix hook-up for dragons?
>
>The Dragon Datajack must already be out in limited supply because there are
>several post in various source books by "The Orange Queen" who claims to be
>a dragon.

Human form with a turtle. Just because you post on Shadowland doesn't mean
you've automatically got a datajack. Captain Chaos himself admits to not
being a "burn-the-Matrix" decker (in TIR TAIRNGIRE, I believe). I don't
know that he's *not* jacked, but it's clearly not a requirement.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	"Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Wed, 2 Sep 1998 14:58:46 +1000

Message no. 28 > >>Think about it. Aside from the Big D, who else amongst the Great
> Dragons
> >>is going to be interested in an efficient Matrix hook-up for
> dragons?
> >
> >The Dragon Datajack must already be out in limited supply because
> there are
> >several post in various source books by "The Orange Queen" who claims
> to be
> >a dragon.
>
> Human form with a turtle. Just because you post on Shadowland doesn't
> mean
> you've automatically got a datajack. Captain Chaos himself admits to
> not
> being a "burn-the-Matrix" decker (in TIR TAIRNGIRE, I believe). I
> don't
> know that he's *not* jacked, but it's clearly not a requirement.
>
> ---
> (>) Texas 2-Step
> El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
>
As you would also notice from Aztlan, there is a human/being/entity by
the name of Brightlight who apparently does (did?) Dunkelzahn's tricky
decking. He's probably the exception to the rule (most dragons are
unlikely to trust humans to the extent that Dunkelzahn seemed to), but
that could be the explanation for any high-powered decking on the part
of dragons in the Matrix.

Doc'

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:36:42 +0200

Message no. 29 Jett said on 15:47/1 Sep 98,...

> > Threats might have the color listed ...
>
> I don't believe Threats has the colors listed. Threats doesn't have much
> to say on dragons at all, IIRC.

AFAICR all Threats talks about is the way in which Lofwyr is always at
least ten steps ahead of you, without mentioning his physical
characteristics. Still, the TT plate should help out, if only I can get
that &@$&%* epoxy glue to stick the figure together... :/

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Machine-gun Kelly <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:45:03 EDT

Message no. 30 In a message dated 98-09-02 00:16:04 EDT, you write:

> >Think about it. Aside from the Big D, who else amongst the Great Dragons
> >is going to be interested in an efficient Matrix hook-up for dragons?
>
>
> The Dragon Datajack must already be out in limited supply because there are
> several post in various source books by "The Orange Queen" who claims to
be
> a dragon.
>

IIRC, most Dragons more or less telepathically 'hitch a ride' with a metahuman
decker.
I wouldn't put the idea of a dragon datajack past them, but there is
neurosurgery required to install Headware and some forms of Bodyware. I can't
see *any* dragon allowing a metahuman to gain knowledge of draconian biology
or neural structure, which would be required for cybernetic implantation.

mgkelly

From:	Rat <shadorat@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:27:00 -0700

Message no. 31 Gurth writes:

>
> If I were an American, I'd probably call this a tradition, as this is
> the second time after returning from a GenCon that I ask the list
> about the colors of a specific dragon -- last year it was the Big D,
> this time it's Lofwyr.
>
> I know there was a bit of a debate about this very question a few
> months back, but at the time I didn't have much of an interest in
> it. Now, however, I own Ral Partha's 25 mm figure of Lofwyr and
> need to paint it in the right colors. So, does anyone have any
> definite pointers to the right colors for this dragon (quote the
> source if you know it).
>
> For one thing, I seem to recall seeing a piece of color artwork at
> GC that showed a red-brown dragon and that had "Lofwyr"
> written on it somewhere; it might have been among the original
> artwork that was for sale at FASA's booth, but I'm not sure...
>
> Also, looking into Corporate Shadowfiles now, there's a negative
> image of Lofwyr there (on one of the color pages), and since it's
> purple it might very well be that Lofwyr is red. Still, does anyone
> have any better sources than this?

Yup! :)

As the purchaser of Jim Nelson's original "Lofwyr" painting (It's
beautiful--now I just have to find the right place to hang it!)
I can state without fear of contradiction that Lofwyr is a
gorgeous golden color. The picture in the Tir Tairngire source-
book is not a very good reproduction, as the colors are
much darker and not nearly so vivid. There's a picture of
the painting on my web page (see below) but it didn't take
very well...if you need a better one I can try to get one for
you.

(I think it also states in Secrets of Power 3 that he's gold.)

Hope this helps.

--Rat
------------------------------------------------------------
shadorat@****.com
Winterhawk's Virtual Magespace
http://www.best.com/~shadorat/shadowrun/wvm.html

From:	Mike Elkins <Mike_Elkins@*********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:30:15 -0400

Message no. 32 >This begs the question(s)...would cybersurgery on a dragon cause him to
lose
>a Magic point, and would he, after all these years, likely even notice?
And
>would it affect his ability to assume a human form? I mean, he does it
via
>Magic, not a were's shapeshifting ability, so I wouldn't think it would
>interfere, but....

These specific questions are not answered, but one can get SOME sense of
what FASA thought about the issue several years ago by looking at the
adventure "Dragon Hunt". I'm not saying more because I don't feel like
typing all those returns for spoiler space...

Double-Domed Mike

From:	Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors -Reply
Date:	Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:52:41 -0400

Message no. 33 >As you would also notice from Aztlan, there is a
>human/being/entity by
the name of Brightlight who apparently does (did?) Dunkelzahn's
>tricky
>decking. He's probably the exception to the rule (most dragons
>are
>unlikely to trust humans to the extent that Dunkelzahn seemed
>to), but
>that could be the explanation for any high-powered decking on
>the part
>of dragons in the Matrix.

Actually Brightlight is/was another immortal elf who didn't
attend the meeting. The various books by Jak Koke, seem to
imply that Jane-in-the-Box has done most of Big D's decking
for at least the last 5 years.
But your comment is right. A dragon could assume human
form and type on keyboard, or hitch with a decker.
Their reading and commenting, not shredding the matrix.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 378-1939
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633

From:	Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.COM.AU>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:47:35 +1000

Message no. 34 >> >Think about it. Aside from the Big D, who else amongst the Great Dragons
>> >is going to be interested in an efficient Matrix hook-up for dragons?
>>
>>
>> The Dragon Datajack must already be out in limited supply because there
are
>> several post in various source books by "The Orange Queen" who claims
to be
>> a dragon.
>>
>
>IIRC, most Dragons more or less telepathically 'hitch a ride' with a
metahuman
>decker.
>I wouldn't put the idea of a dragon datajack past them, but there is
>neurosurgery required to install Headware and some forms of Bodyware. I
can't
>see *any* dragon allowing a metahuman to gain knowledge of draconian biology
>or neural structure, which would be required for cybernetic implantation.

Well, ... SPOILERS!

s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s

<subliminal messages=ON>Join the Shadowrun Webring Today!</messages>

s
o
r
r
y
a
b
o
u
t
t
h
a
t

Anyway, Dragon Hunt has Eliohann, the dragon with a datajack. Of course, he
went insane after playing in the Matrix, but the 'jack itself worked fine.

Lady Jestyr

- Eagles may soar, but turkeys don't get sucked into jet engines. -
jestyr@*******.com.au URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:36:42 +0200

Message no. 35 Michael vanHulst said on 23:11/1 Sep 98,...

> you do realise all the shapechanging spells are missing, right?
> (Kenson already said they woukd be in MitS I think <shrug>)

Why does everyone think they're missing, anyway? If you pay attention to
second edition, you'll notice they aren't in the main book there either --
all the shapechange (etc.) spells are in the Grimthingy, not the SRII main
rules. Although they moved some spells from there into SR3, they obviously
didn't include _all_ of them -- so until we see MITS we don't know whether
any spells from SRII, the Grimoire, or Awakenings will be left out of SR3
entirely.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:38:46 -0500

Message no. 36 >As you would also notice from Aztlan, there is a human/being/entity by
>the name of Brightlight who apparently does (did?) Dunkelzahn's tricky
>decking. He's probably the exception to the rule (most dragons are
>unlikely to trust humans to the extent that Dunkelzahn seemed to), but
>that could be the explanation for any high-powered decking on the part
>of dragons in the Matrix.

Of course they have hired muscle to provide the security and the actual
venue, but Dunkelzahn was on the Matrix a long time, in both the highly
secure environment he created in, say, AZTLAN, and in the general
comments he made all over the damn place elsewhere. Lofwyr's posted a
time or three himself. They might have people working for them and
making waves and making room, but they do a lot of their own work in
regards to that, I think.

But they don't have to have a datajack to do that.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:33:58 +0200

Message no. 37 Rat said on 21:27/1 Sep 98,...

> As the purchaser of Jim Nelson's original "Lofwyr" painting (It's
> beautiful--now I just have to find the right place to hang it!)
> I can state without fear of contradiction that Lofwyr is a
> gorgeous golden color.

Good to hear that _before_ I start painting :)

> The picture in the Tir Tairngire source-
> book is not a very good reproduction, as the colors are
> much darker and not nearly so vivid. There's a picture of
> the painting on my web page (see below) but it didn't take
> very well...if you need a better one I can try to get one for
> you.

Just an indication of a light or dark golden color (gold, bronze, etc.)
will be sufficient, I think.

> (I think it also states in Secrets of Power 3 that he's gold.)

Ah yes, but as I don't have that book I can't really check that...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	laughingman <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject:	Re: Dragon colors
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:46:10 +0200

Message no. 38 --->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to archive.

----------
> Von: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> An: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Betreff: Re: Dragon colors
> Datum: Mittwoch, 2. September 1998 10:36
>
> Jett said on 15:47/1 Sep 98,...
>
> > > Threats might have the color listed ...
> >
> > I don't believe Threats has the colors listed. Threats doesn't have
much
> > to say on dragons at all, IIRC.
>
> AFAICR all Threats talks about is the way in which Lofwyr is always at
> least ten steps ahead of you, without mentioning his physical
> characteristics. Still, the TT plate should help out, if only I can get
> that &@$&%* epoxy glue to stick the figure together... :/
>
> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
> -> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
> -> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
> -> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
>
> GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
> PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
> Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Probably a bit late, but try glue that hardens in seconds and than apply
somthing
called Miliput, its for smoothing all that little holes in your miniature.

From:	"D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Dragon Colors
Date:	Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:49:58 -0500

Message no. 39 What color is Lung? Pink or cancerous black?

;)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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From:	ShadowRunner9653@*.com ShadowRunner9653@*.com
Subject:	Dragon Colors
Date:	Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:51:20 EDT

Message no. 40 Hello out there!!!!

A quick question.

I have the Dunkelzahn Miniature as well as the Lofwyr and was wondering if
anyone knew the color schemes for these two dragons. I thought I read
somewhere the Dunk is Silver and Blue but I'm not positive.

thanks

Scott

From:	Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject:	Dragon Colors
Date:	Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:58:18 +0200

Message no. 41 ----- Original Message -----
From: <ShadowRunner9653@***.com>

As far as I know on the cover of DS:PoaD Dunkelzahn is blue and silver
colored. On the cover of Corporate Download Lofwyr is golden/sand-yellow
colored.

DV8

"Abashed the Devil stood, and felt how awful Goodness is,..."
- John Milton, Paradise Lost

From:	Hunter griffinhq@****.com
Subject:	Dragon Colors
Date:	Sun, 25 Jun 2000 13:13:15 -0400

Message no. 42 On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:51:20 EDT ShadowRunner9653@***.com writes:
> Hello out there!!!!
>
> A quick question.
>
> I have the Dunkelzahn Miniature as well as the Lofwyr and was wondering
if
> anyone knew the color schemes for these two dragons. I thought I read
> somewhere the Dunk is Silver and Blue but I'm not positive.
>
Dunkelzahn is brown scaled (hence the paint Dunkel Brown).

*************************************************************************
Griffin Industries
"A Shadowrunner's Corp."

http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/Griffin/index.html

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From:	Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject:	Dragon Colors
Date:	Sun, 25 Jun 2000 12:27:06 -0500

Message no. 43 From: Hunter
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 12:13 PM

> > I have the Dunkelzahn Miniature as well as the Lofwyr and was
> > wondering if anyone knew the color schemes for these two dragons.
> > I thought I read somewhere the Dunk is Silver and Blue but I'm
> > not positive.
>
> Dunkelzahn is brown scaled (hence the paint Dunkel Brown).

Thanks for playing, but that is incorrect. Dunkelzahn was blue (as seen on
the cover of POAD and as described in Tom Dowd's "Wyrm Talk" short story).

--
Patrick E. Goodman
remo@***.net
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
http://communities.msn.com/ShadowrunDataHaven/

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	Dragon Colors
Date:	Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:31:41 +0200

Message no. 44 According to ShadowRunner9653@***.com, at 10:51 on 25 Jun 00, the word on
the street was...

> I have the Dunkelzahn Miniature as well as the Lofwyr and was wondering if
> anyone knew the color schemes for these two dragons. I thought I read
> somewhere the Dunk is Silver and Blue but I'm not positive.

Lofwyr is more or less gold in color, while Dunkelzahn is blue with silver
(disregard the election poster, which shows a green dragon). The best
source for Lofwyr is the painting printed in the color section of the Tir
Tairngire sourcebook -- or if you happen to be Shadorat, the original ;)
For Dunkelzahn, there is no published picture that really shows which
color goes where (the front cover of Dunkelzahn's Secrets doesn't really
help, as it only shows his head).

FWIW, I've got both these figures as well, and painted Lofwyr's belly and
wings (both upper and undersides) in gold, with the rest of his body (the
scaly part of his body, his head, limbs, and the bones in the wings) in
bronze with dark-colored horns on his head. My Dunkelzahn has a silver
belly, chin, lower limbs, and undersides of his wings, with the rest in
blue though again with dark horns.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yes, I am broadcasting myself!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Rat winterhawk@*********.net
Subject:	Dragon Colors
Date:	Sun, 25 Jun 2000 12:49:27 -0700

Message no. 45 > From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>

>
> Lofwyr is more or less gold in color, while Dunkelzahn is blue with silver
> (disregard the election poster, which shows a green dragon). The best
> source for Lofwyr is the painting printed in the color section of the Tir
> Tairngire sourcebook -- or if you happen to be Shadorat, the original ;)

Hey, I wasn't gonna say it! :)

(I've got the election poster pic too, which is beautiful but you're
right--Jim Nelson told me why that one turned out green instead of
blue and silver, but for the life of me I can't remember what it
was. I think originally that pic was done as just a generic dragon,
or else it's possible (since before POAD I believe that Dowd story
was the only place Dunk's color got mentioned) that Jim just wasn't
sure what color he was.)

--Rat

=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>
Rat - winterhawk@*********.net http://www.magespace.net
Winterhawk's Virtual Magespace - Shadowrun Fiction and More!
DOD#1211 1999 K1200RS - "Dunkelzahn"
"The pickles are staring at me..."
<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<

From:	. s t e f a n stefan@*****.org
Subject:	Dragon Colors
Date:	Mon, 26 Jun 2000 02:01:11 +0200

Message no. 46 >I have the Dunkelzahn Miniature as well as the Lofwyr and was wondering if
>anyone knew the color schemes for these two dragons. I thought I read
>somewhere the Dunk is Silver and Blue but I'm not positive.

Dunky is blue and silver, shown on the cover of Dunkys secrets and it's
also mentioned here and there that "he" is of that colouration.

Lofwyr. I have heard pretty much every colour in the rainbow on him. First
I thought he was black, then gold, followed by red. In dunkys will he gives
someone an arrow of dragonslaying (a certain colour) if someone reveals
what is behind a door in one of Loffs buildings. Or have my brain mixed
that up. But wouldn't that make sense that he was the colour of the slaying
arrows specification ?

I once saw a model of a corp dragon with a digital watch was that Lofwyr ?
cause then i think he was brown.

So on Lofwyr I really have no idea what so ever ... the only "cover" on
Lowfyr I know of is the one on corp. download and i'm not even sure if that
really is lofwyr but if he is then he is some sort of golden brown (check
out my homepage I got the picture there).

.stefan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"frag you and the datastream you came on!" - sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... email ....................................... stefan@*****.org ...
... homepage .................................. http://litbo.org/ ...
... icq ................................................... 793828 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject:	Dragon Colors
Date:	Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:42:03 -0400

Message no. 47 ----- Original Message -----
From: Hunter <griffinhq@****.com>
> Dunkelzahn is brown scaled (hence the paint Dunkel Brown).

As has been pointed out, that's not why it's called "Dunkel Brown" -- if you
look cloesly, you'll see it's actually "Dunkel Braun." That's because the
name is in german -- it means "dark brown."

-- Josh

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	Dragon Colors
Date:	Mon, 26 Jun 2000 01:02:28 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 48 <Snipples(TM)>
> Lofwyr is more or less gold in color, while
Dunkelzahn is blue with silver (disregard the election
poster, which shows a green dragon).
<Snippola(TM)>
> Gurth@******.nl -

Actually, I'm not sure how that came about (probably a
mistake by the artist), but in one sourcebook (can't
remember if it was the same or a later one), FASA made
a joke about that - they had a news item somewhere
where they had a bounty (or something like that) out
for whoever had been distributing the "green-and-gold"
Dunkie posters. Rather clever, IMNSHO. :)

Obviously, it's been a while since I read that
particular item, though. :)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	Dragon Colors
Date:	Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:43:12 +0200

Message no. 49 According to . s t e f a n, at 2:01 on 26 Jun 00, the word on the street
was...

> Lofwyr. I have heard pretty much every colour in the rainbow on him. First
> I thought he was black, then gold, followed by red. In dunkys will he gives
> someone an arrow of dragonslaying (a certain colour)

Red.

> I once saw a model of a corp dragon with a digital watch was that Lofwyr ?
> cause then i think he was brown.

That's Ral Partha's "Corporate Dragon" kit, which is bigger than either
their Lofwyr or Dunkelzahn kits, but isn't too brilliant when it comes to
the dragon's anatomy. http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/shadowrun/ralpartha.html
has more. The best SR dragon kit is the Feathered Serpent by Ral Partha,
which is pretty big -- about 19 cm high and some 15 cm between its
wingtips. Unfortunately it's also pretty damn expensive, fit of parts
could be a better, and it's very hard to find. The Corporate Dragon is a
bit odd in that last respect: I spent years without finding one (not that
I was actively looking) and after I'd bought one, at a convention I saw
two or three on the same stall.

> So on Lofwyr I really have no idea what so ever ... the only "cover" on
> Lowfyr I know of is the one on corp. download and i'm not even sure if that
> really is lofwyr but if he is then he is some sort of golden brown (check
> out my homepage I got the picture there).

Look in the Tir Tairngire sourcebook.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yes, I am broadcasting myself!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	Dragon Colors
Date:	Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:43:12 +0200

Message no. 50 According to Rat, at 12:49 on 25 Jun 00, the word on the street was...

> (I've got the election poster pic too, which is beautiful but you're
> right--Jim Nelson told me why that one turned out green instead of
> blue and silver, but for the life of me I can't remember what it
> was. I think originally that pic was done as just a generic dragon,
> or else it's possible (since before POAD I believe that Dowd story
> was the only place Dunk's color got mentioned) that Jim just wasn't
> sure what color he was.)

I just remembered that Dragon issue #199 has an article and game stats for
Dunkelzahn. The article is basically the same as in Super Tuesday, but in
the game stats on page 82 it says he is "a silver- and blue-scaled great
western dragon."

--
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-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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