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Message no. 1
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 22:42:24 -0500
I had an idea as to why magical beings have problems in the matrix. Take
a gander at Awakenings. Remember the story about the Burnt-out mage, how
for the first couple weeks after losing his magic, he felt like his head
was wrapped in cotton? According to his doctors, it was the lack of
information he usually got from astral space that was making him feel like
that. It went away after a while.

Enter the Matrix, which has absolutely no input from astral space
possible. For a mage (or, one suspects, an adept who has astral
perception), this would be disorienting, like it is for me without my
glasses when I have a cold. All of my senses are still there, but they
are all muffled, not picking up what they usually do. Since the mage
isn't picking up even the barest traces of astral sight and smell and
sound, this would disorient mages much like I am in the morning (note that
this theory assumes that anyone capable of astral perception is always
doing it to some degree, but its more like peripheral vision... not really
seen, but adding to the totality of your senses, anyway). For a dual
being like a dragon (or a ghoul, or shapeshifter), this would be almost
the equivalent of sensory deprivation, since their senses are almost
continually in astral space (after all, dual beings suffer no penalty to
pure physical actions while astrally perceiving [SR3, pg 260]), and even
when they're not, they're going to be receiving a lot of information
through their "peripheral vision".

Some people can handle sensory deprivation, especially if they know its
coming and know they can stop it at any time. Some people, however, can't
handle it to any degree, no matter the amount of preparation that they go
through. And if they can't turn it off (say, got in combat with some
Black IC), it drives them mad. I've heard (don't know personally, and
can't give sources, 'cause I don't remember) that some become
non-functional from the experience.

I think, perhaps, that this might be why dragons cannot handle the Matrix,
save by piggybacking or tortoises. Does anyone have any comments?

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
"You fail, Death-Lord! You destroy the instrument, but not its music.
With all your power you have gained only a broken shell."
In that moment, when the harp had been silenced, arose the songs of
birds, the chiming of brooks, the humming of wind through grass and
leaves; and all these voices took up the strands of melody, more beautiful
than before.
-Lloyd Alexander, "The Smith, The Weaver, and the Harper"
Message no. 2
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:51:53 EDT
In a message dated 9/5/98 8:45:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, nexx@********.NET
writes:
<snip excellent example>
>
> I think, perhaps, that this might be why dragons cannot handle the Matrix,
> save by piggybacking or tortoises. Does anyone have any comments?
I tend to agree with most of what you said, astral is another sense that the
mages rely on in everyday life, without really knowing it. This sense is not
only cut off (the mage goes blind) but the sense is probably still trying to
tell the mage what is happening where he is. (The eyes may be blind but the
nerves are still sending the last images to the brain, over and over getting
in the way of hearing)
Message no. 3
From: Wilbur The new adept <mad_bomb@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 21:08:00 PDT
IMO The matrix is another realm, separate to the astral built on
(or by -Ed)the deep resonance it has its own adepts, deckers, and mages,
otaku,....i'm waiting to see the dual being?
Anyway the reason mages and magicy things dont like the matrix
is the same reason the otaku are NEVER magic they are not connected with
it in any way, and any kind of forced connection weakens links with
other realms ala the head exploding dragon who jacked in which someone
mentioned a while back.
In another point one of my GM's once had us in a game where someone
had integrated the two in a program/spell which would work to teach non
awakened magic in a white-wolf MAGE style "lets awaken the world "type
idea....we sold to the highest bidder...heh.
MRhappTHEsMILEymaN

*Just because i'm insane doesnt mean i'm insane* -wilbur


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Message no. 4
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:56:42 -0400
On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Nexx wrote:

->I had an idea as to why magical beings have problems in the matrix. Take
->
->Enter the Matrix, which has absolutely no input from astral space
->possible. For a mage (or, one suspects, an adept who has astral
->this theory assumes that anyone capable of astral perception is always
->doing it to some degree, but its more like peripheral vision... not really
<Lotsa various snippage>

So, this in theory would allow Physical Adepts without Astral
Perception to be able to function in the Matrix without any problems.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 5
From: Wilbur The new adept <mad_bomb@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:59:21 PDT
>->
>->Enter the Matrix, which has absolutely no input from astral space
>->possible. For a mage (or, one suspects, an adept who has astral
>->this theory assumes that anyone capable of astral perception is
always
>->doing it to some degree, but its more like peripheral vision... not
really
><Lotsa various snippage>
>
> So, this in theory would allow Physical Adepts without Astral
>Perception to be able to function in the Matrix without any problems.
who ever said they couldn't?
Of course their powers wouldn't work, given that they get them through
their link to the astral.
MRhaPPYthESMileyMAN

*Just because i'm insane doesnt mean i'm insane* -wilbur


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Message no. 6
From: Dom T-J <phobic@**.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:49:09 +1000
>> So, this in theory would allow Physical Adepts without Astral
>>Perception to be able to function in the Matrix without any problems.
> who ever said they couldn't?
> Of course their powers wouldn't work, given that they get them through
>their link to the astral.
> MRhaPPYthESMileyMAN

I'm sorry, it has to be said... "DUH"



Phobic
"He who fears nothing save fear itself. And trolls with clubs."
Message no. 7
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:59:55 -0500
----------
> From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
>
> On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Nexx wrote:
>
> ->I had an idea as to why magical beings have problems in the matrix.
Take
> ->
> ->Enter the Matrix, which has absolutely no input from astral space
> ->possible. For a mage (or, one suspects, an adept who has astral
> ->this theory assumes that anyone capable of astral perception is always
> ->doing it to some degree, but its more like peripheral vision... not
really
> <Lotsa various snippage>
>
> So, this in theory would allow Physical Adepts without Astral
> Perception to be able to function in the Matrix without any problems.

Yes, as well as pre-SR3 magical (but not elemental, shamanic, or astral)
adepts.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
The place to improve the world is in one's own heart and head and hands,
and then work outward from there. Other people talk about how to expand
the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a
motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value.
-Robert Pirsig, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Message no. 8
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:01:20 -0500
----------
> From: Wilbur The new adept <mad_bomb@*******.COM>
> >
> > So, this in theory would allow Physical Adepts without Astral
> >Perception to be able to function in the Matrix without any problems.
> who ever said they couldn't?
> Of course their powers wouldn't work, given that they get them through
> their link to the astral.

The module "Elven Fire" mentions that mages have I believe a +2 target
number modifier in the Matrix, because of a poor reaction between magic
and the Matrix.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
The place to improve the world is in one's own heart and head and hands,
and then work outward from there. Other people talk about how to expand
the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a
motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value.
-Robert Pirsig, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Message no. 9
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:18:12 -0400
Nexx didst sayeth:
>> From: Wilbur The new adept <mad_bomb@*******.COM>
>> >
>> > So, this in theory would allow Physical Adepts without Astral
>> >Perception to be able to function in the Matrix without any problems.
>> who ever said they couldn't?
>> Of course their powers wouldn't work, given that they get them through
>> their link to the astral.
>
>The module "Elven Fire" mentions that mages have I believe a +2 target
>number modifier in the Matrix, because of a poor reaction between magic
>and the Matrix.


It was Ivy and Chrome...

Spoiler Space included just because I've never felt the need to do so before
































That was fun...

The penalty was mentioned in the section with the initial meeting, which
takes place in the Matrix.

Later-

Duncan McNeill-Burton
-Tech Priest in Training
-Violent Felon for Hire
-Pipe-wielding Sociopath for Fun
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
"Your eyes shiver and you grit your teeth,
You've sold you soul now cold blood's how you get relief."
-Ice-T, The Syndicate
Message no. 10
From: Shaun Gilroy <shaung@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:30:10 -0400
At 11:18 AM 9/8/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Nexx didst sayeth:
>>> From: Wilbur The new adept <mad_bomb@*******.COM>
>>> >
>>> > So, this in theory would allow Physical Adepts without Astral
>>> >Perception to be able to function in the Matrix without any problems.
>>> who ever said they couldn't?
>>> Of course their powers wouldn't work, given that they get them through
>>> their link to the astral.
>>
>>The module "Elven Fire" mentions that mages have I believe a +2 target
>>number modifier in the Matrix, because of a poor reaction between magic
>>and the Matrix.
>
>
>It was Ivy and Chrome...
>
That particular info is also published in VR1.. dunno about 2, haven't
looked for it since.
noysh the spoonë bard [BABY 909]
shaung@**********.net
>jack of all trades, master of none.
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:42:23 +0200
Shaun Gilroy said on 11:30/8 Sep 98,...

> >>The module "Elven Fire" mentions that mages have I believe a +2
target
> >>number modifier in the Matrix, because of a poor reaction between magic
> >>and the Matrix.
> >
> >It was Ivy and Chrome...
> >
> That particular info is also published in VR1.. dunno about 2, haven't
> looked for it since.

VR left it up to the GM how to exactly do this in the game -- either add
the character's Magic attribute or Sorcery skill to all TNs for Matrix-
related tasks. VR 2.0 and SR3 don't mention this at all AFAIK, so we can
assume that FASA has decided not to give magicians a penalty when entering
the Matrix.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 12
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:06:29 -0400
At 08:42 PM 9/8/98 +0200, you wrote:

>VR left it up to the GM how to exactly do this in the game -- either add
>the character's Magic attribute or Sorcery skill to all TNs for Matrix-
>related tasks. VR 2.0 and SR3 don't mention this at all AFAIK, so we can
>assume that FASA has decided not to give magicians a penalty when entering
>the Matrix.

Magic/Matrix Interference
Magical Flaw
Value: -2, -4

The character's perception of the world is especially colored by nature and
astral space. Perceiving artifical technlogical environments can cause
distractions or pain, making tasks in the environment more difficult. For a
2 point Flaw, add half of the character's Magic Rating to any Matrix
Related Tests. For 4 points, the character adds his full Magic Rating to
these tests.


Sommers
Home page to eventually be installed in this location.
Actual date is Real Soon Now (tm)!
Message no. 13
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:09:12 -0400
On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Gurth wrote:

->Shaun Gilroy said on 11:30/8 Sep 98,...
->
->> >>The module "Elven Fire" mentions that mages have I believe a
+2 target
->> >>number modifier in the Matrix, because of a poor reaction between magic
->> >>and the Matrix.
->> >
->> >It was Ivy and Chrome...
->> >
->> That particular info is also published in VR1.. dunno about 2, haven't
->> looked for it since.
->
->VR left it up to the GM how to exactly do this in the game -- either add
->the character's Magic attribute or Sorcery skill to all TNs for Matrix-
->related tasks. VR 2.0 and SR3 don't mention this at all AFAIK, so we can
->assume that FASA has decided not to give magicians a penalty when entering
->the Matrix.

Man, I hope so. I always enjoyed having my mages "surf the
Matrix"...... Best of three worlds (which, considering they're in the
sixth, 50% isn't bad).

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 14
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:51:31 -0400
At 10:42 PM 9/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I had an idea as to why magical beings have problems in the matrix.

Nexx, this makes so much sense.

I was shocked to find something like 700 e-mails sitting waiting for me
from the long weekend (what, didn't some of you leave your computers?!?
;-)), but this e-mail regarding Awakened being and the Matrix was easily
the best of the lot. Sorry Martin! ;-)

Erik J.

Who avoided computers successfully for three days straight!!
Message no. 15
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:35:29 -0500
----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
>
> At 10:42 PM 9/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >I had an idea as to why magical beings have problems in the matrix.
>
> Nexx, this makes so much sense.
>
> I was shocked to find something like 700 e-mails sitting waiting for me
> from the long weekend (what, didn't some of you leave your computers?!?
> ;-)), but this e-mail regarding Awakened being and the Matrix was easily
> the best of the lot. Sorry Martin! ;-)

::blushes:: Thank you, Erik. Any more of this and my head is going to
swell so much I won't be able to go through the door.

Nexx, who has had trouble with doors today ever since he locked himself
out of his dorm room when he went to the shower and had to get a key from
the front desk in a towel
Message no. 16
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:53:08 +0100
And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|
|At 10:42 PM 9/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
|>I had an idea as to why magical beings have problems in the matrix.
|
|Nexx, this makes so much sense.
|
|I was shocked to find something like 700 e-mails sitting waiting for me
|from the long weekend (what, didn't some of you leave your computers?!?

Yes. I was away at the TA all weekend, but apart from that, there was
nothing special about it.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 17
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:57:45 -0500
----------
> From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
> |I was shocked to find something like 700 e-mails sitting waiting for me
> |from the long weekend (what, didn't some of you leave your computers?!?
>
> Yes. I was away at the TA all weekend, but apart from that, there was
> nothing special about it.

Its a 'merican thing, Spike... sumptin you damn furriners wouldn't
unnerstan...
Message no. 18
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:05:45 +0100
And verily, did Nexx hastily scribble thusly...
|> Yes. I was away at the TA all weekend, but apart from that, there was
|> nothing special about it.
|
|Its a 'merican thing, Spike... sumptin you damn furriners wouldn't
|unnerstan...
|

I know. But then, we have our own things, like "Guy Fawkes Night".
That beats "Labour day" hands down....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 19
From: Tomus Cone <brother_1@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:25:47 PDT
>The module "Elven Fire" mentions that mages have I believe a +2 >target
>number modifier in the Matrix, because of a poor reaction between magic
>and the Matrix.

It was also in the original VR, though not in the 2.0. I found that
interesting.

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Message no. 20
From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:57:37 +0000
and thus did Erik Jameson speak on 8 Sep 98 at 16:51:

> I was shocked to find something like 700 e-mails sitting waiting for me
> from the long weekend (what, didn't some of you leave your computers?!?
> ;-)), but this e-mail regarding Awakened being and the Matrix was easily
> the best of the lot. Sorry Martin! ;-)

I think I can live with that... [whipes away some tears and blows
his nose :) ]. I have to agree with you on this one anyway. It was
extremely well reasoned through.

FASA, add this in MitS please!


Martin Steffens
chimerae@***.ie
Message no. 21
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Dragons and the Matrix
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:07:27 -0500
----------
> From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
>
> and thus did Erik Jameson speak on 8 Sep 98 at 16:51:
>
> > I was shocked to find something like 700 e-mails sitting waiting for
me
> > from the long weekend (what, didn't some of you leave your
computers?!?
> > ;-)), but this e-mail regarding Awakened being and the Matrix was
easily
> > the best of the lot. Sorry Martin! ;-)
>
> I think I can live with that... [whipes away some tears and blows
> his nose :) ]. I have to agree with you on this one anyway. It was
> extremely well reasoned through.
>
> FASA, add this in MitS please!

::stares at the screen, looking extremely shocked::

Further Reading

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