Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: Dragons and True Magick
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:20:36 -0800
Hmm, all this talk of Great Dragons manipulating magic in a raw state
reminds me a LOT of Mage: The Ascension. I doubt that Dragons would be able
to be so powerful as to do all the fun things they used to do in
Earthdawn..yet.

After all the mana curve just started and is nowhere near as strong as it
was in the Fourth Age of Earthdawn. Look at all the powers dragons lost from
their ED stats for one thing. Another thing is the mana level does not
support some of the metaraces such as the obsidemen, t'skrang and those
windling dudes. Will they ever show up now that Earthdawn is confined to the
same FASA dustbin as their Star Trek RPG? Not likely. So does that mean they
can do all that nifty magic stuff they could in ED? Maybe not.

In the context of Shadowrun (not Earthdawn) certain things are not present,
like threads. Maybe these will show up later in future magic supplements,
but we can agree we won't be seeing much more of the Earthdawn system ported
over unless we, the players, do all the hard work. Since the old
super-dragon magic was based on simply grabbing threads and yanking them
around you can't assume they can do that in SR. If you want to play it that
way in your games thats cool, but don't assume others will allow the dragons
to monkey with magic at that level.

I'm not a giant fan of the more blatant Threats SR has been beating us over
the head with (though the Invae were VERY cool IMHO) and as far as a player
or GM is concerned there is little difference between a dragon and a CEO or
a corporation. You can argue round and round and round about how dragons
could make Ares their beotch but that's a GM opinion - not something based
on the game 'reality'.

I REALLY like the Earthdawn tie-ins and hope it sticks around a bit (the
uncovering of Thera mentioned lately in Cyberpirates, Invae, blood magic,
etc). Does not mean I'll have dragons smacking around everyone and owning
the world. That smacks WAY too much of dungeons and dragons.

Ken
Still hoping K will take pity on me and send those secret ED to SR
conversions...
Message no. 2
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: Dragons and True Magick
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 23:42:05 -0500
Tzeentch wrote:

> <SNIP>

> In the context of Shadowrun (not Earthdawn) certain things are not present,
> like threads. <SNIP>

Threads. I haven't really played ED so I don't know too much about it, but it
sounds like something I've heard of in a series: has anyone ever read The
DeathGate Cycle by Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman? It's been a while since
I've read it so I might be confusing it with another excellent fantasy series,
but if I recall correctly, here's how the story went:
All possibilities in life exist as "threads" in the fabric of time. Using runes
engraved on the body or drawn in the air, a magician is able to "pull" the
thread that he wishes, pulling it into the tapestry of space-time. So if a one
wanted to, say, cause a ball of fire to appear and envelop a person standing in
front of him, (a possibility which existed, who's to say it's not within the
realm of possibility?) he'd grab ahold of the thread and pull it. Some advanced
people didn't need to draw sigils, they just made it happen.
Is this similar to threads in ED?


--
--Strago

In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder,
bloodshed - they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance.
In Switzerland they had brotherly
love, five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did they produce? The
cuckoo clock!
-Orson Welles

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2+ SR3++ h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN+ SRFF W+ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+)
gm+ M P
Message no. 3
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Dragons and True Magick
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:10:22 -0800
On Fri, 03 Dec 1999 23:42:05 -0500 Strago <strago@***.com> writes:
> Tzeentch wrote:
>
> > <SNIP>
>
> > In the context of Shadowrun (not Earthdawn) certain things are not
present,
> > like threads. <SNIP>

> Threads. I haven't really played ED so I don't know too much about it,
but it
> sounds like something I've heard of in a series: has anyone ever read
The
> DeathGate Cycle by Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman?
<SNIP>

Great series :)

> Is this similar to threads in ED?

I don't think so. Threads in ED are a tool for spellcasting. Threads can
be thought of as conceptual components, like material components in AD&D,
for spells which when assembled into a matrix (A matrix holds the threads
of spell in order to cast it), allows the spell to be SAFELY cast. In ED,
you can cast a spell without weaving threads and without a matrix
(referred to as casting raw magic), but a great risk depending on where
you are. The risk can be anything from damage to yourself from
channelling corrupted mana to attracting the attention of a Horror
(really bad! Remember those snakes from Death Gate Cycle?). If you are in
an area of clean astral space, however, you can cast raw magic without
risk.

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
Why pay more to get Web access?
Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW!
Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
Message no. 4
From: Spike spike1@*******.co.uk
Subject: Dragons and True Magick
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:59:46 +0000 (GMT)
And verily, didst Strago babble thusly:
> realm of possibility?) he'd grab ahold of the thread and pull it. Some advanced
> people didn't need to draw sigils, they just made it happen.
> Is this similar to threads in ED?

No.
If anything, it's closer to the one power in The Wheel of Time series by
Robert Jordan.

--
______________________________________________________________________________
| spike1@****.freenet.co.uk | "THIS IS THE VOICE OF THE MYSTERONS......" |
| Andrew Halliwell BSc | "I'm afraid no-one's in at the moment, but if |
| in | you leave your rank and colour, we'll destroy |
| Computer Science | you as soon as we get back..."- The Preventers|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.12 GCS>$ d-(dpu) s+/- a C++ US++ P L/L+ E-- W+ N++ o+ K PS+ w-- M+/++ |
|PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ X+/X++ R+ tv+ b+ DI+ D+ G e++ h/h+ !r!| Space for hire |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 5
From: Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject: Dragons and True Magick
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 12:03:36 -0500
> From: Strago [mailto:strago@***.com]
> Sent: December 3, 1999 23:42
>
> All possibilities in life exist as "threads" in the fabric of
> time. Using runes
> engraved on the body or drawn in the air, a magician is able
> to "pull" the
> thread that he wishes, pulling it into the tapestry of
> space-time. So if a one
[snip]
> Is this similar to threads in ED?

Not at all.

You can think of a thread as a small piece of a spell; the closest
thing SR has to a thread is the silver line linking a mage to his
foci (in fact, that's almost a direct correlation). It's a conduit
for mana; in order to use magical stuff, the adept must weave
threads to the article in question (the more threads, the better
the bond, the more access to the article's power).

In terms of spell casting in ED, there are three ways to do it:
raw magic, grimoire casting, and matrix casting.

Raw magic is dangerous, as astral space is *very* polluted in ED
times (think high background count). It works by filtering the
mana from astral space through the mage, who forms it into the
pattern that the spell requires ("patterns" are big things in ED).
If you filter polluted mana, there's a chance something nasty
will notice and try to possess you.

Grimoire casting is slow, but safe. I forget the fluff, but slow
and safe basically covers it.

Thus, Matrix casting was developed. Essentially, a Matrix is a
general-purpose magic filter/former. So, instead of the mage
using himself to filter and form the mana, he simply draws it
through the matrix like a spaghetti press. The mage is thus
safe from bad mana, but a matrix can only be tuned to one spell
at a time (it takes a few seconds to retune it). They're also
a bit fragile (various enhancements are available such as
split matrices which can hold 2 spells, armoured matrices, etc).

To cast a spell, the caster must first construct the threads
required (the more complex the spell, the more threads are
required). The caster then typically gets the matrix to hold
on to the threads for him, and then forces mana through it.

A bit roundabout, but there you go.

James Ojaste

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Dragons and True Magick, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.