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Message no. 1
From: Todd Montgomery <tmont@****.WVU.WVNET.EDU>
Subject: Drones
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 04:17:28 CET
Who says drones have to be bigger than a breadbox?

Does anyone remember the movie Runaway with Tom Selek (sp) and Gene
Simmons?

Well remember the little robots that were in the movie, the ones with the
spider legs?

OK, something similar is in the CP 2020 Chromebook II. These little
devils are drones though.

SOOOO, always willing to lobotomize another companies product for the
good of the gaming community, I got an idea. Jow about making a whole
new category for drones for riggers ( the mini's) these are drones
designed to be very small (less than a foot in length) With the use of
cyberware and nanotech and stuff I think it could fit. The options for
a rigger would be great. SPIES, Mini Assassins (tm). I think about the
smallest you could go would be about 6 inches. This would include the
rigger gear for remote. And a small set of controlled devices.

Think about it.

This could even fall into the area of vehicle construction. Although
with a slightly SMALLER tool set (just kidding). And maybe a new skill
like mini (B/R).

Any comments.

-- Quiktek
tmont@****.wvu.wvnet.edu

"It is not man who is the enemy of the human species. It is the
irrational; it is the spiritual when it is divorced from the material;
from the lesson in one beating heart or one bleeding vein."
- Maharet
"The Queen of the Damned" - Anne Rice

P.S.: In defense I want to state right now that they do mention that
the nanotechs used to implant cyberware can actually map an entire
micro. (microporocessor) into the actual nerve cells ( something to
this effect in Shadowtech). And that today we are about to reach the 1
million transistors/1 cm^2 density of VLSI Technology. ULSI is
emerging and is expected to leave that milestone in the dust. GO
ULSI!!!!
Message no. 2
From: steven mancini <mancinis@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 22:44:29 EST
Mutilating "tmont"'s response:

] Who says drones have to be bigger than a breadbox?
]
FASA does... well IMHO. The only drones you can mount *anything*
to are the larger ones: you need the body for Firm/Hard points
or something large enough (CF) to store the neat gadgets...

] Does anyone remember the movie Runaway with Tom Selek (sp) and Gene
] Simmons?

Mildly amusing flick... like the acid squirt devices.

] OK, something similar is in the CP 2020 Chromebook II. These little
] devils are drones though.
]
Any chance you could break a few copyright laws and post some
of this info????

] SOOOO, always willing to lobotomize another companies product for the
] good of the gaming community, I got an idea. Jow about making a whole
] new category for drones for riggers ( the mini's) these are drones
] designed to be very small (less than a foot in length) With the use of
] cyberware and nanotech and stuff I think it could fit. The options for
] a rigger would be great. SPIES, Mini Assassins (tm). I think about the
] smallest you could go would be about 6 inches. This would include the
] rigger gear for remote. And a small set of controlled devices.
]
] Think about it.
]
I have been. I have been contemplating a drone with legs rather
than the traditional travel mediums. Unfortunately, science is
not one of my strong points so designing these kinds of things
is rather difficult for me.

] This could even fall into the area of vehicle construction. Although
] with a slightly SMALLER tool set (just kidding). And maybe a new skill
] like mini (B/R).
]
I was contemplating lumping all the internals to a drone under
a special B/R skill. So that a builder would require a RPV B/R
skill to build the 'guts' and the appropriate B/R skill for the
drones mobility.

Not to discourage further discussion, but generally I find the responses
unresponsive. I was looking for a bit more meat behind the ideas; alot
of folks re-iterated the basic premises- a good GM will find something
for everyone to do, etc..

How about my *other* questions-
Dimensions of 1 CF?
Cost for building drones for arms?
etc. (I forgot the rest).
-Minotaur

P.S. I am not trying to sound shitty; the above is not meant in that
way. It just seems that everyone gave me the generic "gaming
advice" and either avoided or could not answer my specific
questions.
Message no. 3
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: RE: Drones
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 04:04:07 CET
Minotaur,
I'm shocked. You don't really believe that you couldn't mount some sort of
weapon on a small drone. If you've ever fired a .22 rifle you know there's not
a lot of recoil involved.
I see no reason why a drone of reasonable size couldn't mount a light pistol,
narcojet, or taser if the drone was built around them. This would be especially
true for a "legged" drone since the computer in it could be programed to brace
it just before firing.
I'd include a copy of the drone from Chromebook for CP2020, but I left my book
at the house. Maybe next time.

See Ya in Shadows,
Jason J Carter
The Nightstalker
Message no. 4
From: ArkAngel <DUNN@******.BITNET>
Subject: RE:Drones
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 11:02:00 EST
First off, let me explain that the drones that I've been referring to
are significantly smaller than the size of a shoebox... think like the 4inches
a size, up to maybe 6x4x12... drones that are small enough to fit through just
about any heating duct.
Actually, it wasn't Minotaur who suggested that a drone couldn't fire a
light weapon, it was me... And I still stand by it, and Yeah, I've fired .22s,
and yeah, I've also driven small R/C vehicles... for starters, the recoil on a
pistol, which is basically what we're talking about here, isn't the same as the
recoil on a rifle, ya can't compensate for it as well, and a small R/C car,
etc. right now doesn't weigh much at all, as in, probably not much more than
the gun itself would weigh. Now, try setting a gun down on the floor, pick the
smallest caliber you want, point it at somthing, and then without steadying it,
pull the trigger. I can assure you, that the gun won't hit the thing you were
originally aiming at... it's basically the same difference. and frankly I
don't care if the thing you're using has 40 legs... if it doesn't have enough
mass, it can't do suffiecient recoil comp...
However, I will retract my statement that they couldn't have ANY
weapons. A contact Taser could probably be relatively easily installed, and
possibly a spring loaded grenade launcher or a maybe a micro missile launcher
(something akin to a modern model rocket with a C12 tip) However, I wouldn't
put much money on the accuracy of either of the last two... Firing something
spring loaded isn't easy, and the accuracy of a micro missile would probably be
minimal--they'd need some sort of a platform to launch from, and in a drone
less than a foot long, there really isn't space to aim something like that...
If your GM allowed for the creation of some sort of laser unit, that
might be workable, however, I've always thought a basic tenet of SR was no
lasers smaller than the MP (which is just a little bit unworkable)
Thus, with drones this size, I'd come down to either load it with C12,
and make it a kamikaze, or give it a contact taser, so that it can shock
anything that tries to grab it, giving it time to get away...

"Watch your Back. Shoot Straight. Conserve Ammo.
And Never, Ever cut a deal with a Dragon."
dunn@******.jcu.edu

>>>>>[ArkAngel.Logout]>>>>>
Message no. 5
From: Emmanuel Herzog Taich <88-19852@*******.USB.VE>
Subject: Drones
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 10:04:18 -0400
Hi everybody :

I have some questions regarding drones in combat. I have a
rigger, an he is conected (via VCR and Remote Control) to a drone,
with advanced sensors, and he is in the middle of a combat, the questions are :

What does the rigger see ?, does the sensors have
thermographic, radar, ultrasound ? Whats the difference between the
sensors ? (what does an advanced sensor has that the standar doesn't ?)

Can I use the control and the combat pool for combat ?

How does the armor work (suppose the drone has Body 4 and
armor 9) against bullets ? grenades ? missiles ?

Whats the maximum armor and body a drone can have ?

Can I remote-control a drone that is remote-controled by
someone else ? (does jamming has something to do with it ?)

Well, thanks.

Emmanuel Herzog
88-19852@***.ve
Message no. 6
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 15:18:30 +0100
In reply to Emmanuel Herzog Taich .....
>
> I have some questions regarding drones in combat.

> What does the rigger see ?, does the sensors have
> thermographic, radar, ultrasound ? Whats the difference between the
> sensors ? (what does an advanced sensor has that the standar doesn't ?)

Sensors are generally considered to have thermo and low light built in as
standard for level 0 and above sensors. Above that you'll find extra things
such as radar etc, note these systems do take up extra space on the drone so
one of the useful things about small sensor ratings is that it frees up space
and reduces the weight on the drones.

Advanced sensors come in various ratings each including something a little
extra or better versions of the old stuff. Sensor ratings can also be used
for targetting purposes, ie the rigger could say to the drone shoot a bike and
leave it to try and do the job, or he can take advantage of those sensors
him/herself to assist the targetting abilities.

> Can I use the control and the combat pool for combat ?

You can use control pool for drone combat but not the combat pool. That is
only for meat body combat.

> How does the armor work (suppose the drone has Body 4 and
> armor 9) against bullets ? grenades ? missiles ?

First compare the armor rating against the power of the attack, if the power
is greater than the armor then the drone can be damaged <note the GM may want to
include knockdown/back rules even if the drone can't be damaged>. If a weapon
can damage a drone then a damage resistance test is made <you can add control
pool> the number dice you roll is equal to the body + 1/2 the armor rating
<round down> against a TN of power - body - armor. Also the damage level of
the weapon is reduced by 1 level making weapons that do light damage impossible
to do damage unless a called shot is used.

> Whats the maximum armor and body a drone can have ?

Errmm I think there's no real limit as you could run an Ares Dragon by remote
and call it a drone. But I think body is limited to twice the armor.

> Can I remote-control a drone that is remote-controled by
> someone else ? (does jamming has something to do with it ?)

Make an ECM/ECCM test, see if you can produce a stronger signal. Note you may
still find it impossible if the drone you're trying to take control of doesn't
recognize the commands you issue.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 7
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 14:29:06 +1000
Sascha Pabst writes:

> I'd like to know if "cross-control" in general is possible. I know from
> aircraft, ship and car remote control models than one can cut the control
> of the "original" user. Anything like that possible for... hm, come to
> think about it, AGAINST Riggers?

Well, as far as the rules go, there really isn't much besides ECM jamming.
Somebody (sorry, it was a while ago) posted a fairly decent set of rules for
control contests between riggers on here a while ago. I might have it
archived someplace if you want me to dig it up and send it to you or post
it.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 8
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Drones
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:02:22 -0500
Never had any riggers in my campaigns,
How do drones work? What is the drone initiative? If it's a
hunter drone what does it use as a firearms skill? Finally how much
recoil compensation would the drone have?

Thanx,
Dust
Message no. 9
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:52:11 -0700
Dust wrote:
|
| Never had any riggers in my campaigns,
| How do drones work? What is the drone initiative? If it's a
| hunter drone what does it use as a firearms skill? Finally how much
| recoil compensation would the drone have?

Aw, come on Dust, the rules for Drones are in the main book...

To Rig a drone a rigger needs to jack into a remote deck,
which has a slave port assigned to the drone. The rigger's
control wires decide the drone's initiative. The rigger
uses his gunnery skill to fire any weapons the drone has.
And, I can't remember off hand what the recoil compensation
is. It depends on whether or not it's a hard point or a..
soft(?) point mount. Read the rules.

A rigger can directly control a drone this way, in which
case the rigger uses his skills. Or, he can issue the
drone commands (guard the building, circle the area, shoot
at any tanks, etc), in which case the drone uses it's
intelligence for most skill tests.

Also, anyone can control a drone indirectly by giving it
voice or radio commands (assuming the drone has been
programmed to recognize them).

Like I said, it's all in the main book. Please read it :)

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 10
From: Vael Lashar <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Drones
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:29:49 +0000
Dust wrote:

> How do drones work?

Read the following book:

Shadowrun Second Edition.

> What is the drone initiative? <snip the remaining questions>

See:

Shadowrun Second Edition. It's an excellent rule book published by
FASA Corp.

Also see:

DRONES RBB pg 103
Drone Destruction RBB pg 107
Drone Racks RBB pg 119
Operational Duration RBB pg 99
Rigger Commands RBB pg 101
Set-up/Breakdown Time RBB pg 99
Various Models FOF pg 67-69
Various Models RBB pg 77-85


Vael
Message no. 11
From: Thomas <thomas@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:27:12 -0600
At 01:29 AM 2/4/97 +0000, you wrote:
> How do drones work?

It's in the main SR2 rulebook. If you're only going to buy one book for
Shadowrun, why not buy that one?




-Thomas Deeny
telltale.hart.org

"Yes."
-Tamara [soon-to-be] Deeny
Message no. 12
From: "V.A.L.I.S." <campbellcc@***.HENDRIX.EDU>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:57:00 -0600
>At 01:29 AM 2/4/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> How do drones work?
>
>It's in the main SR2 rulebook. If you're only going to buy one book for
>Shadowrun, why not buy that one?

Ok, sorry about this guys, but I own the SR2 main rulebook, and a large #
of suppliments, and riggers are not only neglected, I have no idea how they
do their thing. The few paragraphs that the book gives, spaced out in the
book, using similar termanology to the decker stuff only adds to the
confusion. And it's not like the archtypes helped. I said no riggers when I
started my campaign b/c I had no idea how they work, and I still don't
freaking know. (though I do have a better idea). Now you must understand,
that I don't own the RBB, (though I will. "Buy Books, Make Mike Happy!") It
isn't clear at all.

Since we're on the subject.
Does a rigger just use a standard datajack? and does he have a deck like
remote control device, that controls the drones, or does he have to be
hooked into them directly. (i.e. fiber optic cable network or somesuch) Do
the Drones roll on the (vastly useless) vehicle control table?

Not a flame, just airing my peace. ;->

Sincerely,

Courtney C. Campbell
Message no. 13
From: "Terry L. Amburgey" <xanth@********.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:49:55 -0500
At 03:57 PM 2/3/97 -0600, you wrote:
>>At 01:29 AM 2/4/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>> How do drones work?
>>
>>It's in the main SR2 rulebook. If you're only going to buy one book for
>>Shadowrun, why not buy that one?
>
>Ok, sorry about this guys, but I own the SR2 main rulebook, and a large #
>of suppliments, and riggers are not only neglected, I have no idea how they
>do their thing. The few paragraphs that the book gives, spaced out in the
>book, using similar termanology to the decker stuff only adds to the
>confusion. And it's not like the archtypes helped. I said no riggers when I
>started my campaign b/c I had no idea how they work, and I still don't
>freaking know. (though I do have a better idea). Now you must understand,
>that I don't own the RBB, (though I will. "Buy Books, Make Mike Happy!") It
>isn't clear at all.
>
>Since we're on the subject.
>Does a rigger just use a standard datajack? and does he have a deck like
>remote control device, that controls the drones, or does he have to be
>hooked into them directly. (i.e. fiber optic cable network or somesuch) Do
>the Drones roll on the (vastly useless) vehicle control table?

If you weren't interested in riggers, then its understandable that you're
not familiar with the rule. If you ARE interested in riggers and drones then
it's not unreasonable to point out that the basic rules are, in fact, in the
rule book. Many listmembers are probably not interested in acting as an online
substitute for the SR2 rulebook. It's too much fun posting OT threads :)
Terry

Terry L. Amburgey Email: xanth@***.uky.edu
Associate Professor Phone: (606) 257-7726
College of Business and Economics Fax: (606) 257-3577
University of Kentucky
Lexington, KY 40506-0034
Message no. 14
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 21:10:20 -0500
>>Ok, sorry about this guys, but I own the SR2 main rulebook, and a large #
>>of suppliments, and riggers are not only neglected, I have no idea how they
>>do their thing. The few paragraphs that the book gives, spaced out in the
>>book, using similar termanology to the decker stuff only adds to the
>>confusion. And it's not like the archtypes helped. I said no riggers when I

>If you weren't interested in riggers, then its understandable that you're
>not familiar with the rule. If you ARE interested in riggers and drones then
>it's not unreasonable to point out that the basic rules are, in fact, in the
>rule book. Many listmembers are probably not interested in acting as an online
>substitute for the SR2 rulebook. It's too much fun posting OT threads :)

I think you miss the point. Reading the posters lines above, it seems
obvious she DID read the main book, and found the rules incomplete. Now,
you can disagree with her, but don't ignore what she said.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 15
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:45:35 -0600
On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Vael Lashar wrote:

> Dust wrote:
>
> > How do drones work?
>
> Read the following book:
>
> Shadowrun Second Edition.

Hey now. On Dust's behalf, I'll defend him. The rules in both SR2, and
RBB are VERY unclear. I've read both thouroughly (sp?) and still drone
combat is still very unclear. Cut the guy some slack. And help us both
out, I still am not sure how combat works.
Thanks
-Court


/* Court Schuett

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I built a little empire out of some crazy garbage
Called the blood of the exploited working class
But they've overcome their shyness
Now they're calling me Your Highness
And a world screams, "Kiss me, Son of God"
-They Might Be Giants
*******************************************************************************/
Message no. 16
From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 18:58:29 -0005
On 3 Feb 97 at 15:57, V.A.L.I.S. wrote:

> Ok, sorry about this guys, but I own the SR2 main rulebook, and a large #
> of suppliments, and riggers are not only neglected, I have no idea how
> they do their thing. The few paragraphs that the book gives, spaced out
> in the book, using similar termanology to the decker stuff only adds to
> the confusion. And it's not like the archtypes helped. I said no riggers
> when I started my campaign b/c I had no idea how they work, and I still
> don't freaking know. (though I do have a better idea). Now you must
> understand, that I don't own the RBB, (though I will. "Buy Books, Make
> Mike Happy!") It isn't clear at all.
The RBB will help some, but not that much. Most of the rules are in the
Black Book, just spread around. And yes, it would be nice if FASA
published a scource book for riggers that had complete rules in one place.

>
> Since we're on the subject.
> Does a rigger just use a standard datajack?
Yes

> and does he have a deck like remote control device, that controls the drones,
Yes, see. Black Book, Rigger Gear, p253. Radio link and ECM/ECCM not
included, batteries not included, some assembly may be required.

> or does he have to be hooked into them directly. (i.e. fiber optic cable network or
somesuch)
No

> Do the Drones roll on the (vastly useless) vehicle control table?
Rarely if ever. Most drones are used in combat right along side the PC's
and initiative, AFAIK, is based on the controlling rigger.

Also, as far as I can tell, you don't actually have to have a Vehicle
Control Rig (Rigger equivalent of Wired Reflexes) to control drones, you
just need that control deck (thinking of drones as fancy RC cars might
help). Not having the VCR implant will put you at a disadvantage, but it
can be done and you don't need to plug into the deck (in fact, unless you
also have the VCR implant, it would be pointless). So a datajack isn't
even necessary. However, it you intend to be effective as a rigger, get
VCR-3 and a data jack, it makes a world of difference in how much you can
control and how well you do it.
--

Ashelock
mailto:woneal@*******.net

"They say it's a brave new world we're building. I say they're right,
and we'll all have to be pretty brave to live in it."
Message no. 17
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 19:27:15 -0500
At 01:29 AM 2/4/97 +0000, Vael Lashar babbled:

>Also see:
>
>DRONES RBB pg 103
> Drone Destruction RBB pg 107
> Drone Racks RBB pg 119
> Operational Duration RBB pg 99
> Rigger Commands RBB pg 101
> Set-up/Breakdown Time RBB pg 99
> Various Models FOF pg 67-69
> Various Models RBB pg 77-85
>
>Vael
>
Just a quick question... Isn't The Rigger Black Book out of print? If so,
Dust is gonna have a hard time finding it to read....:)

But the main rules for Rigging and Droes ARE in the SRII Main Book...

Bull
--
Bull-the-cuddly-Star-Wars-loving-ork-decker

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

Almost There!
Message no. 18
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:19:26 +0000
|
|Never had any riggers in my campaigns,
| How do drones work? What is the drone initiative? If it's a
|hunter drone what does it use as a firearms skill? Finally how much
|recoil compensation would the drone have?

I wish you'd stop doing this... Look it up in the books!
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 19
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:31:42 +0000
|Ok, sorry about this guys, but I own the SR2 main rulebook, and a large #
|of suppliments, and riggers are not only neglected, I have no idea how they
|do their thing. The few paragraphs that the book gives, spaced out in the
|book, using similar termanology to the decker stuff only adds to the
|confusion. And it's not like the archtypes helped. I said no riggers when I
|started my campaign b/c I had no idea how they work, and I still don't
|freaking know. (though I do have a better idea). Now you must understand,
|that I don't own the RBB, (though I will. "Buy Books, Make Mike Happy!") It
|isn't clear at all.

Well from now on, stop blurting out pointless questions and explain yourself
then...

If you ask questions like that, we'll continue to believe that you don't own
ANY books.....

|Since we're on the subject.
|Does a rigger just use a standard datajack?

No. He has to have a special, VERY ESSENSE EXPENSIVE Vehicle control
rig.....

Ohhhh... <He said.... looking at the .sig>

I thought I was responding to Dust again... Forget I spoke...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 20
From: Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:37:10 +0000
> On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Vael Lashar wrote:
>
> > Dust wrote:
> >
> > > How do drones work?
> >
> > Read the following book:
> >
> > Shadowrun Second Edition.
>
> Hey now. On Dust's behalf, I'll defend him. The rules in both SR2, and
> RBB are VERY unclear. I've read both thouroughly (sp?) and still drone
> combat is still very unclear. Cut the guy some slack. And help us both
> out, I still am not sure how combat works.
> Thanks
> -Court
>
>
> /* Court Schuett
>
I will 2nd this.. have almost every book for SR.. and drones still
confuse me.. have read the book many times.. but thanx to the person
who actually posted information.. it helped my understanding a
little.. (*and got me interested enough to give reading about it
another go*)
Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
HTTP://www.datanet.ab.ca/users/hardware
Message no. 21
From: Faux Pas <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 23:24:35 -0600
At 08:37 PM 2/3/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Vael Lashar wrote:
>> Hey now. On [name deleted]'s behalf, I'll defend him. The rules in
both SR2, and
>> RBB are VERY unclear. I've read both thouroughly (sp?) and still drone
>> combat is still very unclear. Cut the guy some slack. And help us both
>> out, I still am not sure how combat works.
>I will 2nd this.. have almost every book for SR.. and drones still
>confuse me.. have read the book many times.. but thanx to the person
>who actually posted information.. it helped my understanding a
>little.. (*and got me interested enough to give reading about it
>another go*)

One of the purposes of this list is rules clarification, not rule
dissemination. If we start reprinting all the rules for Shadowrun on this
mailing list, or all the data from the gear section, or the exact rules
for, say, two-handed ranged weapon combat from a still in-print sourcebook,
FASA might take a TSR stance on that.

When someone appearently hasn't read the main rule book - as evidenced by
the initial post on this topic and other posts by the same person - the
same someone who asked for a reproduction of a sourcebook's rules twice
even after being told about copyright infringement of FASA's works ... when
that happens, I have no patience. Either that person has only the main
rulebook and wants the other information from us so he doesn't have to go
out and buy the other sourcebooks, or that person has the sourcebooks and
is so lazy that he doesn't want to look up the rules himself.

What are drones and riggers? The basic answers are in the SR2 main book.
They're further explained in the Rigger's Black Book, which is out of print
but will have the second edition's update to the RBB sometime this year.
Rumor has it around GenCon, in late summer. More drones appear in the
CorpSec Handbook and in Fields of Fire.

Being confused about the rules and wanting advice or clarification is one
thing, relying on the mailing list for free copies of the rules is
something else. Please, look at the rules. If you don't understand them,
tell us what's confusing you and we'll try to help. And if you can't find
the rules you're looking for, try the index in the back of the books before
posting to the list.




-Thomas Deeny
telltale.hart.org

"When I said I would die a bachelor, I did not think I should live till I
were married."
- Benedick, "Much Ado About Nothing"
Message no. 22
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:51:46 +0100
V.A.L.I.S. said on 15:57/ 3 Feb 97...

> Since we're on the subject.
> Does a rigger just use a standard datajack?

As I understand it, a rigger needs a datajack in addition to the vehicle
control rig (VCR) in order to plug into a rigged vehicle.

> and does he have a deck like remote control device, that controls the
> drones, or does he have to be hooked into them directly. (i.e. fiber
> optic cable network or somesuch)

Drones are normally controlled through a remote control deck (prices etc.
for it are in SRII, on the vehicle table in the back), although if a
rigger wants to control a drone directly through a cable, I'd probably let
him do it, too, especially if the drone is rigged.

> Do the Drones roll on the (vastly useless) vehicle control table?

Which table do you mean? The position test tables? I think they do, if
they're chasing another vehicle. Otherwise, just treat them as characters
who can move a number of meters per turn up to their listed speeds.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Trying to protect my unity.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 23
From: Mike Hartmann <hartmann@***********.M.EUNET.DE>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:24:56 +0000
> > Since we're on the subject.
> > Does a rigger just use a standard datajack?
>
> As I understand it, a rigger needs a datajack in addition to the vehicle
> control rig (VCR) in order to plug into a rigged vehicle.

I think, as you cannot make use of a VCR without some kind of jack, a
basic version of a datajack is already included in the VCR. But that
jack isn't usable for data-communications (the protocols simply don't
match). so, if you want a decker/rigger, you need a standard datajack
, too. (In that case, I'd say, you can decide whether to have both
jacks or just one handling both - for the same NuYen and Essence of
course)

Mike
Message no. 24
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:19:53 -0500
On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Shane Courtrille wrote:

> > On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Vael Lashar wrote:
> >
> > > Dust wrote:
> > >
> > > > How do drones work?
> > >
> > > Read the following book:
> > >
> > > Shadowrun Second Edition.
> >
> > Hey now. On Dust's behalf, I'll defend him. The rules in both SR2, and
> > RBB are VERY unclear. I've read both thouroughly (sp?) and still drone
> > combat is still very unclear. Cut the guy some slack. And help us both
> > out, I still am not sure how combat works.
> > Thanks
> > -Court
> >
> >
> > /* Court Schuett
> >
> I will 2nd this.. have almost every book for SR.. and drones still
> confuse me.. have read the book many times.. but thanx to the person
> who actually posted information.. it helped my understanding a
> little.. (*and got me interested enough to give reading about it
> another go*)
> Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca

Just once and for all,

I really do get tired of people telling me to "buy the sourcebook"
when I ask a question. When I first signed on to the mailing list, I
didn't know exactly everything about "mailing list etiquette," and asked
questions about citing long examples from sourcebooks. Well, I'm trying
not to do that any more.

Nonetheless, there are some SRII rules many of us may get confused by and
I believe that's a pretty good reason why we've got this mailing list
around.

Just to let everyone know, I own the SRII sourcebook, the Grimoire, the GM
screen, and the London sourcebook. I look at my friends' Shadowtech,
Awakenings, and VR 2.0 books occasionally.

Dust
Message no. 25
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:36:53 -0700
Dust wrote:
|
| Just once and for all,
|
| I really do get tired of people telling me to "buy the sourcebook"
| when I ask a question. When I first signed on to the mailing list, I
| didn't know exactly everything about "mailing list etiquette," and asked
| questions about citing long examples from sourcebooks. Well, I'm trying
| not to do that any more.
|
| Nonetheless, there are some SRII rules many of us may get confused by and
| I believe that's a pretty good reason why we've got this mailing list
| around.
|
| Just to let everyone know, I own the SRII sourcebook, the Grimoire, the GM
| screen, and the London sourcebook. I look at my friends' Shadowtech,
| Awakenings, and VR 2.0 books occasionally.

Well, my post must have been more than a little
condescending in that light, sorry :)

I seem to have a pretty good grasp of riggers and how they
operate (my first character was a rigger, and I spent a lot
of time with the RBB making drones and vehicles). If
you're still having problems with some of the aspects of a
rigger, post your questions to the list and I'll see what I
can do. If any of your original questions weren't answered
post them again and I'll go into more detail.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 26
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:41:20 +0000
On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Ashelock wrote:

> > and does he have a deck like remote control device, that controls the
> > drones,
> Yes, see. Black Book, Rigger Gear, p253. Radio link and ECM/ECCM not
> included, batteries not included, some assembly may be required.
A remote control deck can be either:
a) a non-cybered version using a joystick and vidscreen, usable by anyone
(my PhysAd burglar uses one) and costs 5,000 Nuyen per port (per teh basic
SRII.

b) a cybered version, required for the VCR to have effect on the drone i.e
increased reaction and initiative and access to a Control Pool (or
reduction in TN if outside of combat). This is in RBB and costs 25,000
Nuyen per port I believe. I would also say the 'LOS interupted' Drone
control TN modifier would not be used when controlling a drone
cybernetically (as you are seeing from the drone's viewpoint).

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"So that which I imagine, is that which I believe" -Rush
Shadowrun Web Site http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 27
From: "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)" <FASAMike@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:34:11 -0500
In a message dated 2/4/97 12:07:06 AM, Court Schuett wrote:

>Hey now. On Dust's behalf, I'll defend him. The rules in both SR2, and
>RBB are VERY unclear. I've read both thouroughly (sp?) and still drone
>combat is still very unclear. Cut the guy some slack. And help us both
>out, I still am not sure how combat works.

Thanks why Rigger 2 will be out in September 1997.

Have Fun!
Play Games!
Instant Request...It's Like Instant Lotto Without the Cash!

Mike Mulvihill
Shadowrun Line Developer
FASA
www.fasa.com
Message no. 28
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 21:45:19 EST
On Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:02:22 -0500 Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG> writes:
>Never had any riggers in my campaigns,
> How do drones work? What is the drone initiative? If it's a
>hunter drone what does it use as a firearms skill? Finally how much
>recoil compensation would the drone have?
>
>Thanx,
>Dust
>
Not to pick, but shouldn't this info be contained in the SRII manual? You
might try looking for it and seeing if there's something specific that
you have a question with (asking about the entire thing can entail quite
a bit of info:)

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 29
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 07:19:37 EST
On Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:19:53 -0500 Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG> writes:
<snip>
>
>Just once and for all,
>
>I really do get tired of people telling me to "buy the sourcebook"
>when I ask a question. When I first signed on to the mailing list, I
>didn't know exactly everything about "mailing list etiquette," and
>asked
>questions about citing long examples from sourcebooks. Well, I'm
>trying
>not to do that any more.

Good. It's not that we don't want to help you, it's just that we don't
want FASA to get mad at us for quoting large portions of the
sourcebooks...copyrights, you know:) With at least three FASA reps on the
list, rattling off half a page of copyrighted material is probably not a
good thing;)

>
>Nonetheless, there are some SRII rules many of us may get confused by
>and
>I believe that's a pretty good reason why we've got this mailing list
>around.

Well, actually that is (as I understand it) one of the main reasons we
have this mailing list: to discuss, clarify, and to answer questions
about the rules. We are not, OTOH, here to tell you what the rules are,
only to help understand them.

>
>Just to let everyone know, I own the SRII sourcebook, the Grimoire,
>the GM
>screen, and the London sourcebook. I look at my friends' Shadowtech,
>Awakenings, and VR 2.0 books occasionally.
>

Well, I think the only peeve anyone's had is that you tend to ask
questions that require that we list entire pages of FASA text for
answers. If you have a particular area of a rule or rules which you need
clarified, it would be better to tell use why you don't understand it or
what it is about it that you don't understand. Try not to simply ask for
"the rules" covering a certain situation, moreover, if you don't have a
book that contains rules necessary for the use of a certain item
(cyberguns, for instance), don't use that or those item(s). It's much
easier than cataloging entire manuals to answer such questions, and its
one of the reasons I don't allow much use of the items in the SSC, in
general (I have fewer problems with melee weapons than firearms).

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 30
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 13:27:56 +0000
On 4 Feb 97 at 14:34, Mike Mulvihill (FASA) wrote:
[snip]
> Thanks why Rigger 2 will be out in September 1997.
September? Really? No further delays?

<yell> Hey, Mom! I know what I want for birthday! </yell>

Sascha
--
+---___---------+------------------------------------+------------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |Things that try to look |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@ | like things often do |
| \___ __/ | Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.de | look more like things |
|==== \_/ ======|*Wearing hats is just a way of life*| than things. Well known|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | fact. - E.Weatherwax |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 31
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 07:36:54 -0700
> From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
> ....... We are not, OTOH, here to tell you what the rules are......

"No..That is what we are here for"..An entire squad of Game Cops snap
to attention in unison....
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 32
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 17:23:44 -0600
On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Mike Mulvihill (FASA) wrote:

> Thanks why Rigger 2 will be out in September 1997.

But will it be in print in time for GenCon? im already figuring
out how much to save to buy stuff there(i mean is 200$ enough or should i
try for 300$:)) and RBB2 would be near the top of the To-Buy list:)

Thomas Price
aka The Bookworm
thomas.m.price@*******.edu
tmprice@***********.com
Message no. 33
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 02:13:26 +0100
On Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:41:20 +0000, The Digital Mage wrote:

>I would also say the 'LOS interupted' Drone
>control TN modifier would not be used when controlling a drone
>cybernetically (as you are seeing from the drone's viewpoint).

Hm, I thought the LOS interrupted modifier represented lesser quality
of control over the drone for reasons of broken radio connection.

--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************
Message no. 34
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:31:22 -0700
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>

> But will it be in print in time for GenCon? im already figuring
> out how much to save to buy stuff there(i mean is 200$ enough or should i
> try for 300$:)) and RBB2 would be near the top of the To-Buy list:)

Not counting room and food..I would say $200.00 should be adequate to
say the least..The last time I went I was a little less than happy
with some of the prices I encountered..I figured I could wait until I
got the stuff in stores..Naturally some of the stuff you spot will be
next to impossible to get back home...The way I approach the sales
floor is Unless I spot only one it can wait till I look at all the
tables..and then refer back to my notes on where I spotted what..Oh
did I mention..Take Notes..What was where..and how much...all the
tables are numbered and there are floor maps so returning is not a
problem with a couple of quick notes...As for rooms...welll...That is
a bit more difficult..and then food and going places in Milliwake [sp]
..And of course Chicago isn't that far away..And the Battletech
Center in there..take approx $100.00 just for that..it is worth
it..Basically take what you can afford..What you don't spend will
keep until you get home...If you don';t have enough money you might
end up stuck...
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 35
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 23:24:21 -0500
At 05:23 PM 2/5/97 -0600, you wrote:
>On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Mike Mulvihill (FASA) wrote:
>
>> Thanks why Rigger 2 will be out in September 1997.
>
> But will it be in print in time for GenCon? im already figuring
>out how much to save to buy stuff there(i mean is 200$ enough or should i
>try for 300$:)) and RBB2 would be near the top of the To-Buy list:)

Definately the $300 or more. How about some discounts on products for this
Gencon or maybe some coupons for books or something. Hmmmm Mike? Please,
please, please.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Is it in the "mysterious employer credo" that these little rendezvous always
have to be in exotic locales.

I mean just once wouldn't you like to sit down at a Denny's and plan
an assassination over a French Slam Breakfest?

"Deadpool #1"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 36
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 23:45:44 -0500
In a message dated 97-11-11 13:11:22 EST, JonSzeto@***.COM writes:

>
> Uh, sorry to drop in late, but the R2 stats for drone racks is on p. 144.
>
> -- Jon
>
Ah yes, another one of those strange "R2 run-on paragraphs" that seem to have
plagued the editors. I suppose this is why people are waiting for the
response from "Mike-on-High"???

-K
Message no. 37
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 23:56:30 -0500
In a message dated 97-11-11 19:08:36 EST, landsquid@*******.com writes:

> Not to mention that racks for body zero drones are FREE if designed into
> the vehicle. Then again, it is just a fancy "window", and the vehicle
> gets a security mark up.

Yeah, that is one of those strange little windows...but there is still the CF
for the drone requirements, which is NOT free for anything.

> Can drone racks be used for NON-flying vehicles? I could see driving by
> a target and releasing a high stealth ground snooper...

I have donet his before, but then you have to match/overlap ground speeds
appropriately, which can be -at least- as annoying as it can for flying
vehicles. I remember once doing this with a remote helicopter and a friend
of my mother's truck (as in Big Rig). Boy was that fun. And have -you- ever
driven a car up a moving ramp? Oh did that suck.

I know, I'm no rigger, I was just strange in my younger (16ish) days.

-K
Message no. 38
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 00:07:52 -0500
In a message dated 97-11-12 03:14:43 EST, landsquid@*******.COM writes:

> Why not just buy multiple normal droneracks - the space required would
> be similar, and redunacy + simplicity = reliability. Plus,you
> mightlaunch more than one drone at a time, if that is allowed- iwould
> think you could order drones to launch en mass.
>
Actually, it is allowed, just set the drones from the "captain's chair" mode,
or better yet, if they have piloting rating, have them all launch together
from a preplanned flight program/designation (hey look, yet another
concentration for riggers to think about).

-K
Message no. 39
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Drones
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:17:40 -0700
I've been thinking about drones and police forces, and I'm wondering
why they don't use them more in 205x. Now, I'm not talking about
unleashing drones on the city without guidance. I'm thinking of
having riggers in central control centers running the drones through
satelite uplinks using outdated military systems (and since the
megacorps are the military this shouldn't be a cost problem :).

It's cheaper to buy a drone then it is to train a police officer.
It's cheaper to maintain a drone than it is to pay a police officer.
It's easier for one (or more) rigger(s) to coordinate actions. No
medical insurance. No pension plan. Presence. Vehicle armor.
Doesn't eat donuts.

You'd still want (meta)human officers for things like detective work
and to put a (meta)human face on the force. But I think drones would
be used fairly extensivly. And I can see a department like SWAT
using drones almost exclusivly because of the high-threat situations
they find themselves in.

-David
--
"Fortune favors the brave." - Terence
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 40
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:42:24 -0500
On Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 11:17:40AM -0700, David Buehrer wrote:
> I've been thinking about drones and police forces, and I'm wondering
> why they don't use them more in 205x. Now, I'm not talking about
> unleashing drones on the city without guidance. I'm thinking of
> having riggers in central control centers running the drones through
> satelite uplinks using outdated military systems (and since the
> megacorps are the military this shouldn't be a cost problem :).
>
> It's cheaper to buy a drone then it is to train a police officer.
> It's cheaper to maintain a drone than it is to pay a police officer.
> It's easier for one (or more) rigger(s) to coordinate actions. No
> medical insurance. No pension plan. Presence. Vehicle armor.
> Doesn't eat donuts.
>
> You'd still want (meta)human officers for things like detective work
> and to put a (meta)human face on the force. But I think drones would
> be used fairly extensivly. And I can see a department like SWAT
> using drones almost exclusivly because of the high-threat situations
> they find themselves in.
>
that is odd come to think about it. I've used them on/off in my campaign,
from things such as backup firepower for LoneStar, to high altitude
obervation. You'd still need lots of riggers, since each
can only handle so many. The LS book mentions them in traffic duty, but
not much else. R2 mentions them as wonderful security for corps, (also
in corp security book).
There may also be a psychological factor involved. What makes you
feel savor. Seeing a police "drone" on the corner. Or a cop
in uniform. The other problem, may be, what happens if a rigger
takes over a set of LS drones with large quantities of firepower,
and ECM, encryption etc to keep them from doing it, is what drives
the cost up. Food for thought anyway. Later.


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people are alive, only because its illegal to kill them.
Message no. 41
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:04:27 -0500
On 21 Jan 98 at 11:17, David Buehrer wrote:

> It's cheaper to buy a drone then it is to train a police officer.
> It's cheaper to maintain a drone than it is to pay a police officer.
> It's easier for one (or more) rigger(s) to coordinate actions. No
> medical insurance. No pension plan. Presence. Vehicle armor.
> Doesn't eat donuts.

LOL! ^^^^^^^^^^^

I think its just due to the availability of good riggers, or lack
thereof.

--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net====
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
=================================================================
Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 42
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:06:21 +0000
On 21 Jan 98 at 11:17, David Buehrer wrote:

> I've been thinking about drones and police forces, and I'm wondering
> why they don't use them more in 205x. Now, I'm not talking about
> unleashing drones on the city without guidance. I'm thinking of
> having riggers in central control centers running the drones through
> satelite uplinks using outdated military systems (and since the
> megacorps are the military this shouldn't be a cost problem :).
a) Corps may have own military, but government still has its own. Apart
from that,

b) 'The cops' are a corp, too. Unfortunately, not neccessaryily the
same that uses military satelites. SR describes Ares as the main corp
producing military goods (IIRC, even troops), while Lone Star Security
Services handles cop duties (at least in Seattle). 'The cops'
(whichever corp) would have to buy time on the satelites just as 'the
government' would have to. Ares bougth Cape Canerveral/NASA's space
program (mentioned somewhere in Corporate Shadowfiles, I think).

> It's cheaper to buy a drone then it is to train a police officer.
> It's cheaper to maintain a drone than it is to pay a police officer.
> It's easier for one (or more) rigger(s) to coordinate actions. No
> medical insurance. No pension plan. Presence. Vehicle armor.
> Doesn't eat donuts.
c) With R2, it's possible to 'take over' drones by electronic warfare
(see R2, pp. 68-72). Granted, you can 'take control' of police officers
with magic, too, but I dare to say there're less spell-casting
magicians then there are riggers.

d) Riggers are expensive: Training, Cyberware (you have make sure the
rigger will stay with your organization until the cost is compensated),
equipment (deck and drones).

e) They can't control more then two or three drones. Technically, they
could control more, but in threat situations, the full attention of the
rigger would be needed at the crisis site. Drones that could operate
under autopilot would be even more expensive (see d above), and still
had to be overwatched.

f) Your idea would mean to lay much power and control in a few people's
hand, with not much possibilities to control them. Sounds like an
invitation to abuse to me ... :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The light at the |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de|end of the tunnel is|
| \___ __/ | | the headlight of an|
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | approaching train. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | -- Skip (?) |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 43
From: AirWisp <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Drones
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:08:07 EST
In a message dated 98-01-21 13:17:18 EST, you write:

> I've been thinking about drones and police forces, and I'm wondering
> why they don't use them more in 205x. Now, I'm not talking about
> unleashing drones on the city without guidance. I'm thinking of
> having riggers in central control centers running the drones through
> satelite uplinks using outdated military systems (and since the
> megacorps are the military this shouldn't be a cost problem :).

The only problem is that the megas control more than 50% of the satellites in
orbit ... and they would charge an entire city block for use of that much time
/ crunching power of a satellite ...

> It's cheaper to buy a drone then it is to train a police officer.
> It's cheaper to maintain a drone than it is to pay a police officer.
> It's easier for one (or more) rigger(s) to coordinate actions. No
> medical insurance. No pension plan. Presence. Vehicle armor.
> Doesn't eat donuts.

But a drone is not a good form of public reputation ... makes the police force
seem more inhuman and less humane ... the reason for people in the police
force is both an economic, political, and public relations issues ...

But a drone does not heal without intervention ... drones would get used up
faster than regular cops ... riggers would take more risks with the drones ...
which means faster turnover on the drones ... increasing the Motorpool to
handle the Optempo costs of operating so many drones at once ...

> You'd still want (meta)human officers for things like detective work
> and to put a (meta)human face on the force. But I think drones would
> be used fairly extensivly. And I can see a department like SWAT
> using drones almost exclusivly because of the high-threat situations
> they find themselves in.

I can see specialized teams using lots of drones for various mission types ...

Examples ...
Vice Work ........... Chem Sniffer Drones
SWAT ................. Spotter Drones ... Indirect Fire Drones ...
Surveillance Drone ... Fire Suppression Drones ... Communication Drones ...

and the list goes on ...

Mike
Message no. 44
From: Christian Haas <firefreak@****.AT>
Subject: drones...
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 22:37:21 +0200
drones:

how big are they?
do they have the size of a refridgerator, a monitor or are they smaller?

and: how about the recoil with heavy weapons such as the rocket launcher
and so on?

thanks....

--
There is a difference between 'Trance' and 'trance'

cu

Christian Haas

--
You're in trouble.
When you can't see the angles no more, you're in trouble.
You're in trouble.
Message no. 45
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: drones...
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 16:53:59 -0400
On 13 Aug 98, at 22:37, Christian Haas wrote:

> drones:
>
> how big are they?
> do they have the size of a refridgerator, a monitor or are they smaller?

Yes. :)

--



=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
Message no. 46
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: drones...
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:20:08 -0700
>> drones:
>>
>> how big are they?
>> do they have the size of a refridgerator, a monitor or are they smaller?
>
>Yes. :)


HA HA.
Seriously, r2 has drones in all those sizes, and bigger and smaller. Any
vehicle can be a drone, including (as a given case) a bulldozer or a tarantula
like thingy. Those with body 2 (in R2) are about man-sized scale.

Mongoose
Message no. 47
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: drones...
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:14:10 -0400
On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Christian Haas wrote:

->drones:
->
->how big are they?
->do they have the size of a refridgerator, a monitor or are they smaller?
->
->and: how about the recoil with heavy weapons such as the rocket launcher
->and so on?

The size of the drones is described quite well in Rigger 2. It
bases it on their body dice.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 48
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: drones...
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:49:52 -0500
>how big are they?
>do they have the size of a refridgerator, a monitor or are they smaller?

Any vehicle equipped for remote control is a drone. A tank with remote
control is a drone. A micro-bug with remote control interface is a drone.

>and: how about the recoil with heavy weapons such as the rocket launcher
>and so on?

Covered in Rigger2.

-Teeg
Message no. 49
From: Jhary-a-Conel <Jhary-a-Conel@***.NET>
Subject: Re: drones...
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 01:32:22 +0200
On 13 Aug 98, at 22:37, Christian Haas wrote:
> drones:
>
> how big are they?
> do they have the size of a refridgerator, a monitor or are they smaller?
>
> and: how about the recoil with heavy weapons such as the rocket launcher
> and so on?
See:
CAS "Wandjina" RPV Drone RBB 84
Cyberspace Designs Dalmatian Recon Drone Drone RBB
82
Drone Destruction RBB 107
Drone Racks RBB 119
Drone racks R2 144 145
Drones CorpSec 89 93
Drones LoneS 30 31
Drones LoneS 35
Drones, LoneS 116 117
Drones LoneS 132
Drones RBB 103
Drones R2 6
Drones Vehicles SRII 253
Drones Worker insects BuC 136 138
Drones Worker insects, Insect Spirits BuC
Drones BattleTac IVIS R2 67
Drones commands to R2 66 67
Drones dump shock R2 64
Drones fuel consumption R2 83
Drones new items for R2 100 107
Drones Operational Duration RBB 99
Drones operative modes R2 65 66
Drones physical security CorpSec 18
Drones pre-programmed commands R2 89
Drones remote control network R2 62
Drones remote control network R2 64
Drones Rigger Commands RBB 101
Drones Set-up/Breakdown Time RBB 99
Drones technical security CorpSec 32
Drones Vehicles SRII 253
Fixed-radar drones LoneS 30 31
Free-ranging drones CorpSec 32
Gaz-Niki GNRD-7 1 BIS Snooper Drone RBB 79
GM-Nissan "Spotter" Recon Drone Drone RBB 83
Remote control deck pre-programmed drone commands
R2 89
Remote Control Decks Drones RBB 103
Riggers Commanding Drones RBB 101
Semi-mobile drones CorpSec 32
Sikorsky-Bell Microskimmer Drones RBB 83
Strato-9 surveillance drone Equipment LoneS 116
117
Surveillance drone LoneS 30
Surveillance drone LoneS 116 117
Surveillance drone LoneS 132
Takeoff and Landing Drones RBB 100
Vehicle Combat Drone Destruction RBB 1O7
Vehicles Drone LoneS 30
Vehicles Drone LoneS 116 117
Vehicles Drone LoneS 132
Vehicles Strato-9 surveillance drone LoneS 116
117
Vehicles Drone Strato-9 surveillance drone LoneS 132

Hope that helps...

Jhary
Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |"A good bookshop is |
| / /_/ ____/ | Jhary-a-Conel@***.net |just a genteel Black|
| \___ __/ | ICQ#: 7 517 216 |Hole that knows how |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* |to read." |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | (Guards!, Guards!)|
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary ---(T.Pratchett)-+
Message no. 50
From: Dhl9@***.COM
Subject: Re: drones...
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:09:34 EDT
In a message dated 8/13/98 7:07:07 PM EST, fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US writes:

> The size of the drones is described quite well in Rigger 2. It
> bases it on their body dice.

In those discriptions they say a small UAV is the size of a toy model
aircraft. The vector thrust UAV is the only small drone with a body of 2.
Since any craft with a body of 2 can mount a hardpoint, this small drone could
carry something as large and as potent as a MMG or a Vindicator minigun. I
wonder if this was intentional or a mistake?
Message no. 51
From: marcel tomcat@***********.de
Subject: Drones
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:52:23 +0100
Hi
Ihave a small problem with drones.
IIRC.
the doberman as in SR3 has B/A 3/6 that means anyweapon not doning
atleat M at having a powerniveau of 13 or more can damage that little
bugger.
Being a vehicle halfing the powerniveau. an dstp any atackt which
powerniveau is less than ARmor.

NOthing Except the vigariuos assault cannon doeas that much damage
(without any CC).
I did let my rigger drive one; 'cause we are Lone Star and for the
Star It's OK to have a Ace in the sleave. But in my normal campaign I
don't want it. If the Rigger is using it the NPC rigger si using it
too. -> new group please.
Pleas tell me that I did read the rules wrong or that there is
another loophole a normal samurai ( w/ ares Peradtor, Ingram Smartgun
and maybe a AACG can stop this).
BTW. IIRC the smal bugger can shoot/compensate a burst of 6 point
recoil with an LMG. (Poor runners/secguard)

winternight
>From Bladerunner :
Roy: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on
fire off the sholder of Orion. I watched sea beams glitter in the
darkness at Tan Hauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time
like tears in rain. Time to die.
Message no. 52
From: George S Waksman gsw13@****.com
Subject: Drones
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:06:25 -0400
Edited down a bit - From: marcel <tomcat@***********.de>

> the doberman as in SR3 has B/A 3/6 that means anyweapon not doning
> atleat M at having a powerniveau of 13 or more can damage that
> little bugger.


> Pleas tell me that I did read the rules wrong or that there is
> another loophole a normal samurai ( w/ ares Peradtor, Ingram
> Smartgun
> and maybe a AACG can stop this).

> winternight

You have a few options here:

First, and easiest, "give" the oposition AV rounds.

Second, get a big guy (troll/jacked samurai) with a powerful Ranger-X bow
and he can do (STR+4)M, so if STR is higher then 9, he can use successes
to jack up the damage level and power.

Third, there are other weapons with power over 13

Fourth, look at Dikote

That's what I suggest

/*
GSW13, Mr. Peabody, DL (Darklord) Satin, The God of Nothing, etc.

"Wo ist Dein Hobo-Führer?" <---- If my german is wrong correct me
*/

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Message no. 53
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Drones
Date: Thu May 9 05:15:24 2002
Okay, can anyone recommend a selection of drones which would be useful to
complement the team's rigger (who will not touch drones, he's too busy with
his lady) and for legwork, bear in mind price and easy availability of the
rules (try not to recommend the "random crawler drone" which appears in
"random obscure adventure").
They will be run mostly through a cyberdeck with an RCD emulator rather than
through a true RCD so if that influences your choices...

Oh and the character will actually be building the drones himself so if you
have any "must have" customisations note them as well.

Cheers

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Message no. 54
From: shadowrn@*********.com (pete filipe)
Subject: Drones
Date: Thu May 9 13:10:01 2002
--- Lone Eagle <loneeagle2061@*******.com> wrote:
> Okay, can anyone recommend a selection of drones
> which would be useful to
> complement the team's rigger

That really depends on your rigger (or in this case,
your decker). It sounds to me like you want a cheap
drone that can provide surveilance and recce info, be
a forward observer, and co-ordinate the team's
actions. Try the Aztech GGCR-23C crawler, the
Aerodesign Condor LDSD 23 mini-blimp, or the MCT
rotodrone. All are cheap, fairly reliable, and
customizable.

A few other I'd recommend are the Salamander, Steel
Lynx, Wandjina, Re-trans Unit, and a few
mini-crawlers. These require a greater capital outlay
and a greater commitment to rigging. You said you'd be
building your drones (riggers always say that: "Off
the shelf?! Pshaw!"), but these chasis designs should
give you some ideas.

How your drones will be used largely dictates which
drones you will build. Decide on the role your drones
will play, and your selections will pretty well
present themselves. That may sound facetious, but it's
true - there's a big list of drones and drone types,
but only a handful serve any given purpose.

> They will be run mostly through a cyberdeck with an
> RCD emulator rather than
> through a true RCD so if that influences your
> choices...

This is the downside of using a decker to control
drones. Any really competent rigger can take control
of your drones on remote, provided they've kitted
themselves properly. The RCD emulator severely limits
a decker's capabilities if they have to go toe-to-toe
with a rigger for control of a drone.

Try to limit the number of times you'll be leaving
your drones open to electronic warfare, or you may
find your own toys being used against you. Learn
stealth, buy (or build) drones with a high Sig, and
learn electronic warfare (which a good decker should
know anyway).

BTW, has this decker considered getting a full bown
VCR? They're rigging anyway. Go big or stay home,
right? A decker has a minimal essence investment. They
should have enough room (and cash) for even a VCR 1.
This alone would be an improvement over a deck running
a RCD emulator. Besides, having two riggers is better
than just one. Overlap is never bad.


====Pete
player, GM, and general SR addict.

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th!
http://shopping.yahoo.com
Message no. 55
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Drones
Date: Thu May 9 13:45:04 2002
According to Lone Eagle, on Thu, 09 May 2002 the word on the street was...

> Okay, can anyone recommend a selection of drones which would be useful to
> complement the team's rigger (who will not touch drones, he's too busy
> with his lady) and for legwork, bear in mind price and easy availability
> of the rules (try not to recommend the "random crawler drone" which
> appears in "random obscure adventure").

I take it you have Rigger 3, or lacking that, Rigger 2? In that case, I'd
say you'd do best to get him some drones that fulfill most purposes. An
LDSD-23 Condor for surveillance; a Roto-drone with a machine gun, or a Lone
Star Strato-9 (which includes an MMG), as an airborne fire support
platform; a couple of tracked or wheeled drones to accompany the other PCs
on missions; and a few miniature walkers for spying and getting into small
places (these are excellent to scope out ventilation ducts, behind/under
furniture, and so on).

> Oh and the character will actually be building the drones himself so if
> you have any "must have" customisations note them as well.

IMHO, especially if the player doesn't have much knowledge of drones, it's
going to be better to pick existing ones and customize them as necessary.
But if he wants to build them himself, look at the ones I mentioned above
for inspiration.

As for must-have modifications... I'd say buy yourself a couple of
Strato-9s and use them for parts. Easier to get one of those than trying to
buy an MMG, rating 5 sensors and ECM 2 on the streets...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Begint eer ge bezint.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 56
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Da Twink Daddy)
Subject: Drones
Date: Thu May 9 14:00:01 2002
Today, Lone Eagle spoke on Drones:

> Okay, can anyone recommend a selection of drones which would be useful
> to complement the team's rigger (who will not touch drones, he's too
> busy with his lady) and for legwork, bear in mind price and easy
> availability of the rules (try not to recommend the "random crawler
> drone" which appears in "random obscure adventure"). They will be run
> mostly through a cyberdeck with an RCD emulator rather than through a
> true RCD so if that influences your choices...

> Oh and the character will actually be building the drones himself so if
> you have any "must have" customisations note them as well.

If you are building them yourself, I suggest you decide what chassis you
want first. For short-range scouting I suggest a micro-crawler, for
"guard duty" I suggest a mini-blimp, forextra fire support go with a
medium walker or cralwer. For long-range scouting and a good amount of
boom-boom go with large fixed-wing, if you've got the runway, or
tilt-wing, if you don't.

As power plants go, I usually like electric, even with it's disadvantages.
Or nuclear for LARGE vehicles. For vehicles that needs flexibility hybrid
engines are a plus.

Since they are custom jobs, decide what role each of them will play and
choose customizations based on that.

I think Smart materials are a must on a vehicle, if you can get it. I
like my drone staying connected as well, so it's nice to fit the larger
ones (or all of them!) with retrans units. When your drone are clustered,
it's nearly impossible to use Miji against you, and when Miji isn't an
issue you have extended range.

Also, in the particular case, it appears that we have a decker that's
attempt to run a number of drones. With some programming skill, and the
right references, or possibly just through your contacts, you might try
and get some robotic-operation software. Since IIRC, you won't be able to
"jump-in" to the drone, you'll get lots of use out of the autonomy of
robots.

--
Da Twink Daddy
datwinkdaddy@*******.com
ICQ# 514984
Message no. 57
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Keith Duthie)
Subject: Drones
Date: Thu May 9 22:00:01 2002
On Thu, 9 May 2002, Lone Eagle wrote:

> Oh and the character will actually be building the drones himself so if you
> have any "must have" customisations note them as well.

If he's going to be building them from scratch, then he's going to have
trouble getting anything bigger than a micro-turret[1]. So if he was
planning on building some heavy-duty fire support, then he's probably
better buying a prebuilt model and customizing.

[1]Look at the availabilities of the various turrets. Something like 15
for a small remote turret, and around 22 for a medium remote turret.
--
Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change ready.
http://users.albatross.co.nz/~psycho/ O- -><-
Message no. 58
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Drones
Date: Fri May 10 05:25:01 2002
>From: pete filipe <rodrigo_berenguer@*****.ca>
>BTW, has this decker considered getting a full bown
>VCR? They're rigging anyway. Go big or stay home,
>right? A decker has a minimal essence investment. They
>should have enough room (and cash) for even a VCR 1.
>This alone would be an improvement over a deck running
>a RCD emulator. Besides, having two riggers is better
>than just one. Overlap is never bad.

The character is a Jack-of-all-trades, he dabbles in everything no-one else
wanted, the essence investment for a VCR is something I considered at
character creation but decided against, the character is an Amerind,
("I prefer the term Indigenous American whitey.") and has several
predjudices against cyberware, he's a mundane combat character with an
essence of 5.35, a rarity in most people's games I'm sure. The idea of
losing (what, 2 points of essence?) implanting a VCR simply revolts him.


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Message no. 59
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Drones
Date: Fri May 10 07:30:01 2002
>From: Da Twink Daddy <datwinkdaddy@*******.com>
<Snip>
>Also, in the particular case, it appears that we have a decker that's
>attempt to run a number of drones. With some programming skill, and >the
>right references, or possibly just through your contacts, you might try
>and get some robotic-operation software. Since IIRC, you won't be >able to
>"jump-in" to the drone, you'll get lots of use out of the autonomy of
>robots.

You do remember rightly, using a cyberdeck with RCD emulator only allows you
to operate in "captains chair" mode. However, we're deviating from the canon
rules slightly (mainly because we can't understand the justification for
them, a cyberdeck running hot ASIST should allow you to "climb in" to a
drone) we aren't allowing a decker to get into a drone in the same way as a
rigger with a VCR but we are allowing them to "climb in" to the drone and
operate it on a "Virtual dashboard" setup. It still doesn't mean that you're
as good as the team's rigger but it does allow you to take a slightly more
proactive role and it costs a little extra, (you need to fit a datajack port
to the drone, datajack ports come with the software for operating a virtual
dashboard IMO,) so it isn't all bonus.

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Message no. 60
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Darius van wijk)
Subject: Drones
Date: Wed Jul 31 02:50:00 2002
Greetings

I'm about to play a rigger for the first time, and i was wondering if anyone
is aware
of a web site that has a good list of drones and their discriptions that i
can use.

Its either that or i jump blind into making my own drones.

Thanks
Message no. 61
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Drones
Date: Wed Jul 31 03:20:01 2002
> I'm about to play a rigger for the first time, and i was wondering if
> anyone
> is aware
> of a web site that has a good list of drones and their discriptions
that i
> can use.
>
> Its either that or i jump blind into making my own drones.

Ok umm.....I'm gonna play the part of the smartass here but
umm.....yeah, fasa printed a NICE set of great drones, they're called
Rigger Black Book, Rigger 2, and Rigger 3
Message no. 62
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Darius van wijk)
Subject: Drones
Date: Wed Jul 31 03:45:01 2002
> > I'm about to play a rigger for the first time, and i was wondering if
> > anyone
> > is aware
> > of a web site that has a good list of drones and their discriptions
> that i
> > can use.
> >
> > Its either that or i jump blind into making my own drones.
>
> Ok umm.....I'm gonna play the part of the smartass here but
> umm.....yeah, fasa printed a NICE set of great drones, they're called
> Rigger Black Book, Rigger 2, and Rigger 3
>

I'm sure they are lovely But unfortunately nobody in our group presently has
any of those.
We will be getting one or two in the future but I would like a few more
drones to choose from
when I start this new campaign.
Message no. 63
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Drones
Date: Wed Jul 31 05:00:03 2002
According to Darius van wijk, on Wed, 31 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...

> Its either that or i jump blind into making my own drones.

Why not take some of the drones from Rigger 3? There's a fairly wide selection
in there, and you can even use them to get stuff you couldn't otherwise buy at
character creation. (Want a MMG? Buy a Strato-9...)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Huh?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Message no. 64
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Drones
Date: Wed Jul 31 05:00:10 2002
According to Darius van wijk, on Wed, 31 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...

> I'm sure they are lovely But unfortunately nobody in our group presently
> has any of those.

Not to be a smartass, but then how are you going to design your own drones?
You could just write up some stats, of course, but Rigger 3 has this nice
vehicle design system with which all other vehicles have been constructed...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Huh?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 65
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Drones
Date: Wed Jul 31 05:05:01 2002
>From: "Darius van wijk" <support@*******.com>
>I'm about to play a rigger for the first time, and i was wondering if
>anyone
>is aware
>of a web site that has a good list of drones and their discriptions that i
>can use.
>
>Its either that or i jump blind into making my own drones.

I'll give you some of the advice I was given when I asked a similar question
a while ago, I can't give you a website but...
I'll assume that you have access to Rigger 3, if you don't I'll stick a
couple at the end from SR3. You will have to check the availability on these
because I've not had to worry about it too much (not as much as a starting
character would anyway...)

First buy 2 Lone Star Strato-9 Rotordrones, use one and break the second up
for spares, I haven't found a better way to get a rating 5 sensor package
and an MMG in one shot. (Gurth's advice)
Next buy a miniblimp for site surveillance and (if you install Battletac
FDDM) spotting for indirect fire.
Thirdly look at the combat crawlers, pick up a couple of Doberman's and a
Steel Lynx or two.
Fourth - never under-estimate the usefulness of the Renraku Arachnid and the
Kanimushi. Buy at least three micro-crawlers.
Fifth if you have any money left at all buy a turbine Fixed Wing aircraft.
Load it with heavy fire power and never use it (they're way to expensive to
risk) but it's fast enough to really pull your fat out of the fire if you
really need it.

There aren't many drones listed in SR3 really, look at the doberman and the
MCT Rotodrone.


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Message no. 66
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Drones
Date: Wed Jul 31 05:50:01 2002
>From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
> > I'm sure they are lovely But unfortunately nobody in our group presently
> > has any of those.
>
>Not to be a smartass, but then how are you going to design your own drones?
>You could just write up some stats, of course, but Rigger 3 has this nice
>vehicle design system with which all other vehicles have been
>constructed...

Also not wishing to sound like a smartass but he could download "The Shop",
it works on the rigger 2 rules and without knowing the Vehicle design rules
most of it won't make sense but...
A version of "The Shop" is available on the Shadowrun Archive at

archive.dumpshock.com

(IIRC). Simply select programs (windows) from the pulldown menu in the top
right-hand corner and scan down the list...

Okay so I did sound like a smartass, so sue me.

(Legal Disclaimer: Don't sue me.)

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Message no. 67
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Darius van wijk)
Subject: Drones
Date: Wed Jul 31 06:05:01 2002
Not having finished reading the rigger section in the main rule book I
thought they might have covered
drone construction in there the same as they covered new spell creation.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: Drones


According to Darius van wijk, on Wed, 31 Jul 2002 the word on the street
was...

> I'm sure they are lovely But unfortunately nobody in our group presently
> has any of those.

Not to be a smartass, but then how are you going to design your own drones?
You could just write up some stats, of course, but Rigger 3 has this nice
vehicle design system with which all other vehicles have been constructed...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Huh?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 68
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Max Noel)
Subject: Drones
Date: Wed Jul 31 08:00:00 2002
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At 12:04 31/07/2002 +0200, Darius van wijk wrote:

>Not having finished reading the rigger section in the main rule book I
>thought they might have covered
>drone construction in there the same as they covered new spell creation.

Er... In fact they did exactly that. AFAIK spell design is *not*
covered in the main rule book (we're talking SR3 here, right?). Spell
design rules are in "Magic In The Shadows".

Anyway, if you want a rigger player character in your group, you
absolutely need Rigger 3. Honest. In my opinion, given the ridiculously
small amount of rigger gear (2 drones, less than 10 other vehicles --
including a sailboat, great) and the lack of design/customization rules
(that includes vehicle-mounted weapons, esp. turrets) in the main book, you
just cannot play a rigger without the RBB, R2 or R3.


-- Wild_Cat, over.

maxnoel_fr@*****.fr
ICQ UIN: 85274019
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Message no. 69
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Drones
Date: Wed Jul 31 09:00:00 2002
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Max Noel [mailto:maxnoel_fr@*****.fr]
>Sent: Wednesday, 31, July, 2002 08:04 AM
>To: shadowrn@*********.com
>Subject: Re: Drones
>
>
>At 12:04 31/07/2002 +0200, Darius van wijk wrote:
>
>>Not having finished reading the rigger section in the main rule book I
>>thought they might have covered
>>drone construction in there the same as they covered new spell creation.
>
> Er... In fact they did exactly that. AFAIK spell design is *not*
>covered in the main rule book (we're talking SR3 here, right?). Spell
>design rules are in "Magic In The Shadows".
>
> Anyway, if you want a rigger player character in your group, you
>absolutely need Rigger 3. Honest. In my opinion, given the ridiculously
>small amount of rigger gear (2 drones, less than 10 other vehicles --
>including a sailboat, great) and the lack of design/customization rules
>(that includes vehicle-mounted weapons, esp. turrets) in the main book, you

>just cannot play a rigger without the RBB, R2 or R3.

I believe the info in SR3 was designed so the GM could throw in an NPC
rigger or two as opposed to a fully integrated PC character. If you can't
get Rigger3 or Rigger2 then your character will not be able to live up to
his full potential. As a security specialist he will be able to assist the
team in bypassing security systems...as a drone rigger he will be able to
provide drone recon and with the right drones (eg. up to 6 Strato-9's) he
will be able to deploy a volume of fire that the team has never seen before.
The rigger is much more than a driver and all this is covered in Rigger 3 or
Rigger 2. The team I play with relies extensively on the rigger to provide
recon, fire support and dust off...

Bottom line...Rigger 3 or 2 is a must to be a great rigger.

Coyote
Extreme Rigger
2 cents worth
Message no. 70
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Drones
Date: Wed Jul 31 13:15:01 2002
According to Darius van wijk, on Wed, 31 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...

First up: please follow the reply guidelines set out in the ShadowRN FAQ --
that is, reply like everyone else does on this list :)

> Not having finished reading the rigger section in the main rule book I
> thought they might have covered
> drone construction in there the same as they covered new spell creation.

They do -- spell design isn't covered in SR3, and neither is drone
construction :) You have to get a separate book for either. If you plan to use
a lot of drones, or other vehicles, then Rigger 3 is an almost vital addition
to your SR library. OTOH, if you just want to have the occasional vehicle that
sees real use (that's to say, more than the players going, "I drive to the
meet in my car") then SR3 is probably sufficient.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Huh?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 71
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Drones
Date: Wed Jul 31 13:15:13 2002
According to Lone Eagle, on Wed, 31 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...

> First buy 2 Lone Star Strato-9 Rotordrones, use one and break the second
> up for spares, I haven't found a better way to get a rating 5 sensor
> package and an MMG in one shot. (Gurth's advice)

I'm thinking that a vehicle's Availability should be at least equal to that
of the highest-Availability item that comes with it. This is not entirely
realistic, because I'm sure there are plenty of things that are easier to
buy as part of a vehicle than separately but it does nicely solve the
problem that an MMG has Availability 14/14 days, but if you have a bit more
cash to spend and are willing to carry a modified vehicle weapon, you can
pick one up at just about any street corner within two days (a Strato-9 has
Availability 2/48 hrs)...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Huh?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

Further Reading

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!