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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Helge Diernaes <ecocide@***.CBS.DK>
Subject: Drones vs. Humans (was: Sentry Guns (Nasty Thought))
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:48:43 +0100
On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Paul Jonathan Adam wrote:

> Silhouette writes:
> > You would in other words think, that if an WI/NE AI should control
> > drones, it would have to be done remote? So that our 200 killerdrones
> > were multi-tasking controlled by mr(s) IQ 400 AI?
> > Kinda cool and rather scary. That would leave the completeness of these
> > killerthings restrained by only their mobility and adaptedness of their
> > physical restraints to new kinds of weapons when ammo slips.
>
> Until someone drops 600 kilowatts of broadband noise into your comms
> frequency. Blocks your com-lasers with smoke. Tightbeam from satellite?
> ASAT weapons, killersats, or a cloud of gravel in the right orbit.
> Super-unjammable radios? Take out the antennae.
>
Sounds like killerdrones are exclusively for tactical eradication work.
Human factor still somewhat needful, but this is basically what you have been
saying all along :-) I believe.
But Paul, aren't there countertechniques for these neutralisation methods
mentioned above? You're the expert, but if com-lasers fail, will
switching to microwave not be an option? Ultrasonic vision as default,
interlocked sattelite sensors, so if one is blocked, the others can
coordinate the efforts for the blocked sattelite also, etc.etc.

> Smart base, dumb soldiers means that if you take out that base - or just
> the communications - the soldiers are helpless and can be much more easily
> taken out one at a time. This is how NATO planned to defeat the Warsaw Pact:
> take out the command tanks, so the others just kept motoring forward. They
> couldn't give mutual support, didn't know where to refuel and re-arm, and
> could be picked off individually much more easily than as a coherent unit.
>
> And you play headgames with the AI. It's only as informed as the sensors on
> the drones... so confuse the bastard! :) Trying to fight by remote control
> is a lot harder than it seems.
>
For a human :-). My main trouble with SR tech is, as I've told you before, that
I have no firm idea of the technology available in 2053. It seems to me
that beyond magic, there is really no advancement in 2053 that we haven't
already begun in some primitive way. Well, if one is of that mind, even magic
have been around for some time now.
With all our advanced tech, the tech evolution should have been cruising
at turbo speed for about 60 years now. The achivements in 2053 is puny
indeed, seen from my point of view, but then I'm not tech. Might explain
that issue. But ofcourse, Newtonian physics is assumed to stay the same.

> I did rip off the movies and have one possible future involve an AI, which
> by uncanny coincidence had both developed time travel, and was called
> Skynet :) But the AI was losing that war.

I've no AI's yet. My natural ones seem much nastier to me.

--
Sincerely,

Silhouette


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Helge Diernaes | "I'm going slightly mad..."
ecocide@***.cbs.dk | Freddy Mercury, Queen
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Message no. 2
From: Doug Miller <enigma@********.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: Drones vs. Humans (was: Sentry Guns (Nasty Thought))
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 02:56:27 +0000
On Sun, 8 Oct 1995, Helge Diernaes wrote:

> For a human :-). My main trouble with SR tech is, as I've told you before,
> that I have no firm idea of the technology available in 2053. It seems to me
> that beyond magic, there is really no advancement in 2053 that we haven't
> already begun in some primitive way. Well, if one is of that mind, even magic
> have been around for some time now.
> With all our advanced tech, the tech evolution should have been cruising
> at turbo speed for about 60 years now. The achivements in 2053 is puny
> indeed, seen from my point of view, but then I'm not tech. Might explain
> that issue. But ofcourse, Newtonian physics is assumed to stay the same.

Your forgetting that the Crash of '29 took out most of the data on all of
this "old tech". I believe it set research back several years. That would
account for the almost relative lack of advancement. (We musn't forget
about cybertech.)

> Sincerely,
>
> Silhouette

Doug
Message no. 3
From: Helge Diernaes <ecocide@***.CBS.DK>
Subject: Re: Drones vs. Humans (was: Sentry Guns (Nasty Thought))
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 23:25:05 +0100
On Sun, 8 Oct 1995, Doug Miller wrote:

[Snipped issue concerning relative lack of technological advancement in SR]
>
> Your forgetting that the Crash of '29 took out most of the data on all of
> this "old tech". I believe it set research back several years. That would
> account for the almost relative lack of advancement. (We musn't forget
> about cybertech.)

That is one way to explain the subject, apart from Pauls quite fine
elaboration on the technological advancements in this century as compared
to my percieved lack of same in 60 years from now (Se his post concerning
this issue).

I'll love the day I come out ahead of you guys (male/female) :-)

--
Sincerely,

Sil


___________
___________________________________________
___________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________
Helge Diernaes | "I'm going slightly mad..."
ecocide@***.cbs.dk | Freddy Mercury, Queen
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Message no. 4
From: Jason Earl <SirPuck@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Drones vs. Humans (was: Sentry Guns (Nasty Thought))
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 13:13:18 -0400
In a message dated 95-10-08 05:46:39 EDT, Silhouette writes:

>For a human :-). My main trouble with SR tech is, as I've told you before,
>that
>I have no firm idea of the technology available in 2053. It seems to me
>that beyond magic, there is really no advancement in 2053 that we haven't
>already begun in some primitive way. Well, if one is of that mind, even
magic
>have been around for some time now.
>With all our advanced tech, the tech evolution should have been cruising
>at turbo speed for about 60 years now. The achivements in 2053 is puny
>indeed, seen from my point of view, but then I'm not tech. Might explain
>that issue. But ofcourse, Newtonian physics is assumed to stay the same.

Fasa's explanation for that was the Computer Crash of '29. I imagine that it
would back up research quite a bit if computers stopped working for a couple
of months; especially if when they started working again all of the
information on them had been corrupted. In fact one of the Shadowrun novels
(I can't remember the title it was a long time ago) talked about a way to tap
fiber optic lines that had been invented before the crash and then lost -- it
was now re-emerging and that is where the fun came in.

Top that off with UGE and Goblinization, the VITAS plagues, the return of
magic, etc. and it is a wonder that they made any headway at all in some
fields. Research takes money and stability and the world prior to Shadowrun
had neither.

Hope this helps
Sir Puck

P.S. to the people who maintain this list. I am awfully sorry that I
responded in character a few posts back. Believe me it will not happen
again.

Further Reading

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