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Message no. 1
From: Brian Johnson <john0375@****.TC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Drug addiction: in my game
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:13:50 -0600
On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, Arno R. Lehmann wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:51:21 -0600, Brian Johnson wrote:
drug stuff.


Arno asked:
> How fast do your players lose essence when addicted? Just like in
> ShadowTech, or slower or faster? I think ST is much too fast ...

I use the ST rule, average life of an addict = 2 months?

I agree that ST is too fast, but I haven't messed with it yet. I've got
like, 2 players, and both want to be magicians, hrm, so they stay clear
of the stuff. drat!

how about one point per month? [1/2 per 2 weeks]
that gives the average addict [say, essence 5] a five month problem?

If you really want to get involved, have it vary for each drug.
Most herion addicts last much longer that cocaine/crack/etc. addicts.
[so the people say, i wouldn't know.]
Message no. 2
From: Shawn Baumgartner <Breakdown@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Drug addiction: in my game
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 17:36:03 -0500
In response to the drug addiction posts from everyone:

You all seem to support letting drug addicts have it easier than the
rules say. BULLSHIT! Since nobody here seems to have had to deal with
this IRL and therefore lacks a reasonable reference point, I'll go to
confession (and perhaps keep some of you from testing your theories IRL)

I was a speed addict for two years. When you use it ocasionally, it's no
big deal really. You fly for a while, crash, and get on with life. But
when it becomes a part of your life, it becomes a BIG part. Me and my
junkie buds would plan our awake/asleep days on a calender, depending on
how much crystal and money we had at the time. I spent most of my time
sketching on the edge or huddling in my room, depending on the time of
day. Luckily I was just a high school student at the time; I didn't have
to work or pay bills, because I couldn't have. Pretty much screwed up
any chance of college, even though I am very intelligent, because school
became an interference to getting ripped. And when I finally cleaned up,
it was the most painful experience of my life. Even now I'd love to drop
a line or two, even though I haven't touched the shit in over five
years.

So the moral of the story is, whether role playing or real life: LEAVE
IT THE FUCK ALONE! Unless you're prepared to pay with your soul.

Shawn

-----------------------------------------------------
Oh No!
Another damn page!
http://www.toptown.com/CENTRALPARK/DEOSYNE/
Ah what the hell; better than gardening!
Message no. 3
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Drug addiction: in my game
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:11:22 -0500
>You all seem to support letting drug addicts have it easier than the
>rules say. BULLSHIT! Since nobody here seems to have had to deal with
>this IRL and therefore lacks a reasonable reference point, I'll go to
>confession (and perhaps keep some of you from testing your theories IRL)

<snip personal story>

I'm glad you're clean, and I respect your determination. I don't think the
others were saying addicts had it "easy" though....I thought they were
saying they lived longer than two months.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 4
From: Joachim H A Buchert <avo_jb@**.HELSINKI.FI>
Subject: Re: Drug addiction: in my game
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:22:42 +0200
> >You all seem to support letting drug addicts have it easier than the
> >rules say. BULLSHIT! Since nobody here seems to have had to deal with
> >this IRL and therefore lacks a reasonable reference point, I'll go to
> >confession (and perhaps keep some of you from testing your theories IRL)
>
> <snip personal story>

This is a game. Discard the attitude and let's try again.

IMO, drug addiction is hard to effectively describe with a rules system,
it should most definately be roleplayed, but some rules to go by would be
good, and no matter how bad experiences you've had, people should be able
to discuss these without you or anyone telling them anything else.

> I'm glad you're clean, and I respect your determination. I don't think the
> others were saying addicts had it "easy" though....I thought they were
> saying they lived longer than two months.

Mm-m. Again, the rules cannot describe the pain felt by addicts, but a
good GM working in an RP situation just might set the mood. Not for the
squeemish, but our gaming group likes this kind of intense RP.

No offence meant to anyone down the line, I've had enough experience with
drugs and addiction to know what I'm talking about, though.

It just annoys me when I encounter attitudes which say "I've gone through
that IRL, and it offends me if you go through it in RP." I think RP in a
healthy mature environment can go a long way in teaching us humans of our
own lives and what to do, and what not, with them.

- J -
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Drug addiction: in my game
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:23:35 +0100
Shawn Baumgartner said on 17:36/25 Feb 97...

> In response to the drug addiction posts from everyone:
>
> You all seem to support letting drug addicts have it easier than the
> rules say. BULLSHIT! Since nobody here seems to have had to deal with
> this IRL and therefore lacks a reasonable reference point, I'll go to
> confession (and perhaps keep some of you from testing your theories IRL)

Can't argue with your own experiences (hell, I don't even drink (not
because of any moral issues, I just never have)) but you said yourself wou
were addicted for about 2 years. In SR, no addict would live longer than
10 weeks -- one damage box is lost for every week of addiction, and when
they're all gone the character dies. You obviously didn't die after 10
weeks (correct me if I'm wrong :) so why should a character in SR?

IMO slight changes to the addiction rules in this way does not making it
easier for addicts.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'm not a philosopher, I only have a highschool diploma.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 6
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Drug addiction: in my game
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:19:12 +0000
|
|In response to the drug addiction posts from everyone:
|
|You all seem to support letting drug addicts have it easier than the
|rules say. BULLSHIT! Since nobody here seems to have had to deal with
|this IRL and therefore lacks a reasonable reference point, I'll go to
|confession (and perhaps keep some of you from testing your theories IRL)

Ahh well.... Here goes.....

|I was a speed addict for two years.

Two years? In ShadowRun Terms, the only way you could still be alive is
through Cybermancy.....

|When you use it ocasionally, it's no
|big deal really. You fly for a while, crash, and get on with life. But
|when it becomes a part of your life, it becomes a BIG part. Me and my
|junkie buds would plan our awake/asleep days on a calender, depending on
|how much crystal and money we had at the time. I spent most of my time
|sketching on the edge or huddling in my room, depending on the time of
|day. Luckily I was just a high school student at the time; I didn't have
|to work or pay bills, because I couldn't have. Pretty much screwed up
|any chance of college, even though I am very intelligent, because school
|became an interference to getting ripped. And when I finally cleaned up,
|it was the most painful experience of my life. Even now I'd love to drop
|a line or two, even though I haven't touched the shit in over five
|years.

Yes? But what's wrong with trying to PLAY a drug addict? People want to play
things they're never going to be, like mages, and cyber-monsters. Why not
drug addicts?

The Shadowrun world at the moment kills addicts in 6 months by costing
essence. Now that you are clean, do you feel as if you have -18 essence?

Or do you feel relatively OK?

|So the moral of the story is, whether role playing or real life: LEAVE
|IT THE FUCK ALONE! Unless you're prepared to pay with your soul.

This is ROLE-PLAYING! People want to play the odd tragic or pathetic
character. Just because the roleplay being a drug addict, does NOT mean they
are going to go out there and become one.

In fact, it could be looked at as clearing it out of your system.
Playing a violent character doesn't mean you yourself is violent, but is get
help vent some of your agression harmlessly.

Just because you've had a bad time with drugs doesn't mean we should
immediately ban all mention of playing characters who use them....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
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|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Message no. 7
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Drug addiction: in my game
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 18:24:35 +0100
On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:13:50 -0600, Brian Johnson wrote:

>Arno asked:
>> How fast do your players lose essence when addicted? Just like in
>> ShadowTech, or slower or faster? I think ST is much too fast ...
>
>I use the ST rule, average life of an addict = 2 months?

A little short, and that's my problem with it.

>I agree that ST is too fast, but I haven't messed with it yet. I've got
>like, 2 players, and both want to be magicians, hrm, so they stay clear
>of the stuff. drat!

They want to keep clear, but the GM (you?) always can do things...
(of course that would be unfair, but a good hook for an adventure)
<typical GM grin>

>how about one point per month? [1/2 per 2 weeks]
>that gives the average addict [say, essence 5] a five month problem?
>
>If you really want to get involved, have it vary for each drug.
>Most herion addicts last much longer that cocaine/crack/etc. addicts.
>[so the people say, i wouldn't know.]

Heroin addicts can last for yoears. It all depends on a lot more
factors than only the drug, even more than willpobwer / body.
These two were my first ideas to make tests with to determine the
actual essence lost.

One of my idea was to let the addict lose 1/body or wllpower essence
every [week | two weeks | month], depending on the drug. (Heroin,
to keep the example, once a month, crack once a week).

But then AFAIK it's not only the drug that is the problem for the addict.
The actual loss of - what is essence now in RL, well, I hope you
understannd what I mean - depends a great deal on the lifestyle of the
addict. In short: someone with a good job, with high income, friends,
etc. can be addicted to heroin without problems for a long time. As
long as he can afford the drug he doesn't get problems. In RL cocaine,
heroin are quite usual in certain circles, and alcohol, hm, I think
you know that there are surely a lot of persons addicted to it, even
people you know, perhaps your friends, and they aren't automtically
low on "essence".
My problem is, that this is a lot too complex for a simple SR rule.
Usually, I would leave drug addiction on a level of roleplaying, and
decreasing essence by intuition. I think it would work, but anyway,
I'd like a good set of rules on that topic.

--
Arno
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Message no. 8
From: BulletShower <nmatausc@****.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Drug addiction: in my game
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:56:14 +1000
Also sprach Shawn Baumgartner <Breakdown@*****.NET>:

[SNIP OWN DRUG EXPERIENCE]

> So the moral of the story is, whether role playing or real life: LEAVE
> IT THE FUCK ALONE! Unless you're prepared to pay with your soul.

I understand your point of view, though I have to say that everyone
has the choice to throw his life away or not. Personally, I only
smoke shit every once in a while.
Two of my friends, and my cousin, have been addicted for long years,
also. They won't miss the chance to tell us to not take hard drugs.
However, I think cyberpunk is a dark world, and many protagonists in
the cyberpunk books are nothing more than rotten corpses.
If one of my player wants his character to take drugs, then be it so,
but he has to be prepared that he won't play the character forever
(assuming he keeps being addicted).


:)
BulletShower
______________________________________________________________________
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