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Message no. 1
From: Kurt Christian Bath <ST97000132@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 08:52:56 -0500
Has anyone got any ideas an whether there
are going to be any published adventures
involving the Big "D" will.

----------------------
Kurt Christian Bath
K.C.Bath@****.ac.uk
Message no. 2
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <shadowrn@************.NET>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 07:07:50 -0700
>Has anyone got any ideas an whether there
>are going to be any published adventures
>involving the Big "D" will.
>
>----------------------
>Kurt Christian Bath
>K.C.Bath@****.ac.uk

I would imagine that the will is going to play a role in a few more modules
at least. But the burning question that I have is, "Is FASA going to
actually tell us who really killed Dunkelzahn?". We had a hint to a
possible suspect in Jake Koke's latest book that that appears to have been
a dead end.

Since its been hashed out so much on the list has there been any consensus
on who did the killing. Now I must admit that this is assuming that he
dead. I really don't want to start any major wars on the Is dead/Isn't
dead line... Lets just all assume that he is dead and try to figure out who
the heck did it.


MnJ
Message no. 3
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:04:19 -0700
At 08:52 10/27/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Has anyone got any ideas an whether there
>are going to be any published adventures
>involving the Big "D" will.

FASA has said that some of the items involved in the Big D's bequest will
be used in future products, but it will be a small amount. I think you're
pretty safe doing whatever you want with all of them, but then I'm a
contradict-FASA type of guy :)

-Adam

-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
From The Jury's Bench: http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/jurybench
Message no. 4
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:31:17 GMT
Kurt Christian Bath writes

> Has anyone got any ideas an whether there
> are going to be any published adventures
> involving the Big "D" will.
>
FASA have given the impression they intend to use about 10-12 of the
item in the will over the next few years if they get round to it.

The Dragon Heart has shown up, wow i wonder where!

The 'Mars' photos have been used though unless you buy the adventure
they appear in using them yourself would be no problem anyway.

You might want to stay away from anything clearly given to Harlequin,
Damian Knight and other such personalities who will show up in novels
etc but otherwise you should be pretty much ok.

Mark
Message no. 5
From: Mamoulian <shine@************.NET>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:17:36 -0700
>I would imagine that the will is going to play a role in a few more modules
>at least. But the burning question that I have is, "Is FASA going to
>actually tell us who really killed Dunkelzahn?". We had a hint to a
>possible suspect in Jake Koke's latest book that that appears to have been
>a dead end.
>
>Since its been hashed out so much on the list has there been any consensus
>on who did the killing. Now I must admit that this is assuming that he
>dead. I really don't want to start any major wars on the Is dead/Isn't
>dead line... Lets just all assume that he is dead and try to figure out who
>the heck did it.

Elves......can't trust any of them. Tir Na Nog is my bet. Ever wonder why
no dragons have ever been reported to be on or around Tir Na Nog???

Mamo
Message no. 6
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 01:58:28 -0500
At 04:31 PM 10/27/97 GMT, Mark Steedman wrote these timeless words:
>Kurt Christian Bath writes
>
>> Has anyone got any ideas an whether there
>> are going to be any published adventures
>> involving the Big "D" will.
>>
>FASA have given the impression they intend to use about 10-12 of the
>item in the will over the next few years if they get round to it.
>
>The Dragon Heart has shown up, wow i wonder where!
>
>The 'Mars' photos have been used though unless you buy the adventure
>they appear in using them yourself would be no problem anyway.
>
>You might want to stay away from anything clearly given to Harlequin,
>Damian Knight and other such personalities who will show up in novels
>etc but otherwise you should be pretty much ok.
>
Several of the items have already popped up... A couple were detailed in
the back of D's will, and one or two have appeared in the novels (The
Aqualogy, for one...).

Also, one of the Rooms (Renraku, I think) is an Objective in teh SHadowrun
Card Game...

And, if you're interested in ideas for your home game, I can give you
details on our versions of:

The Scottish Castle that you need to spend the Night In
The Elusive TZ
The Dragon Flu Serum
And info on the recepiant of the Red Dragon thingy (was that a banner, or
an arrow, or what? I can;t remember now, but I used the recipiant in a run).

D's will makes GREAT fodder for run ideas...

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
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List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Whoever invented solataire is one sadistic son of a bitch"
-- Me, after spending 2 hours trying to win a game
Message no. 7
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:10:58 GMT
Bull writes

> Several of the items have already popped up... A couple were detailed in
> the back of D's will, and one or two have appeared in the novels (The
> Aqualogy, for one...).
>
Yes but they didn't claim the prize in the Will for it :)

> Also, one of the Rooms (Renraku, I think) is an Objective in teh SHadowrun
> Card Game...
>
I don't think it tells you whats in it though.

> And, if you're interested in ideas for your home game, I can give you
> details on our versions of:
>
> The Scottish Castle that you need to spend the Night In
> The Elusive TZ
> The Dragon Flu Serum
Sounds interesting :)

> And info on the recepiant of the Red Dragon thingy (was that a banner, or
> an arrow, or what? I can;t remember now, but I used the recipiant in a run).
>
It was an arrow of red dragon slaying, now given a certain Dragon in
'Denzines of Barsaive' is red, and the comments about strange dragons
in Atzlan and the strange room in the Aztlan Pyramid and the air
traffic controllers problems in Tecnolitan (see cover!), think i
might be going somewhere! [only an idea but Tinner might like it :) ]

> D's will makes GREAT fodder for run ideas...
>
Yep, now should you use the above before you get hired to do it <GM
grin>

Mark
Message no. 8
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <shadowrn@************.NET>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:13:29 -0700
At 01:58 AM 10/28/97 -0500, you wrote:

I would love to have that information. If you don't want to post it to
the list just email it to me at mnj@************.net.

BTW I love you page. <ahh the benifits of working a job where I can surf
the net to my hearts content...>

>And, if you're interested in ideas for your home game, I can give you
>details on our versions of:
>
>The Scottish Castle that you need to spend the Night In
>The Elusive TZ
>The Dragon Flu Serum
>And info on the recepiant of the Red Dragon thingy (was that a banner, or
>an arrow, or what? I can;t remember now, but I used the recipiant in a run).
>
>D's will makes GREAT fodder for run ideas...
>
>Bull
>--
Message no. 9
From: Frank Pelletier <jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:38:58 +0000
Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>

(snip)

> It was an arrow of red dragon slaying, now given a certain Dragon in
> 'Denzines of Barsaive' is red, and the comments about strange dragons
> in Atzlan and the strange room in the Aztlan Pyramid and the air
> traffic controllers problems in Tecnolitan (see cover!), think i
> might be going somewhere! [only an idea but Tinner might like it :) ]
>

I thought I'd throw in my question in this thread.... Is Dunky really
dead? (joking, joking)...

No... I've always remembered that shadowtalk in Aztlan about the
corrupted dragon landing on top of Aztech HQ in Tecnotiltan. And the
talk about the..hmm... special health status of Juan Azpotasomething.
So... is he a dragon? Corrupted?

Trinity
---------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
Trinity@********.com, jeanpell@****.qc.ca

"Life is a blur"
Message no. 10
From: Jak Koke <jkoke@******.UOREGON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:03:14 -0800
Kurt Bath wrote:
>>Has anyone got any ideas an whether there
>>are going to be any published adventures
>>involving the Big "D" will.
>>
>>----------------------
To which, Mike Johnson wrote:
>I would imagine that the will is going to play a role in a few more modules
>at least. But the burning question that I have is, "Is FASA going to
>actually tell us who really killed Dunkelzahn?". We had a hint to a
>possible suspect in Jake Koke's latest book that that appears to have been
>a dead end.
>
>Since its been hashed out so much on the list has there been any consensus
>on who did the killing. Now I must admit that this is assuming that he
>dead. I really don't want to start any major wars on the Is dead/Isn't
>dead line... Lets just all assume that he is dead and try to figure out who
>the heck did it.

To which I write:

I guarantee that by the end of _Beyond the Pale_, which is the third and
last book of the Dragon Heart Saga, you will know the answer to the question
of who killed Dunkelzahn. You will also know the why and the how. Whether
any of this information can be easily integrated into anyone's campaign, I
don't know. Also, because of the level of secrecy and the fact that most of
the events in the Dragon Heart Saga occur behind the scenes, only rarely
will sourcebooks or shadowtalk provide hints about what happened.

If you must know who did it for your campaign and can't wait until _Beyond
the Pale_ comes out (Feb '98), I'd suggest just trying to figure out
something that works consistently with your campaign and run with it. If
you decide later, after reading _Beyond the Pale_, that you want to change
it, you can always say that the run your PCs went on (in which they learned
that Dunkelzahn was assassinated by a secret cadre of Wendigo shamans hired
by Ordo Maximus and allowed into the Watergate Hotel masked by a powerful
illusion cast by Tutor and armed with nuclear weapon-foci prepared in
rituals orchestrated by Winternight and linked by the Blood Mage Gestalt to
the Quetzalcoatl teocalli in Tenochtitlan) was all a dream, or a freaky
astral quest on peyote or somesuch. <grin>

Please keep in mind that what you read in the novels (and the sourcebooks)
is primarily entertainment. I worked with FASA to come up with some smokin
plots and cool characters and I wrote some fun books. I hope I am able to
give people a few good reads, some distraction, and a lot of entertainment
as a result. But if what I write doesn't fit your campaign, please ignore it.

BTW, I am curious about whether or not people found _Clockwork Asylum_ to be
as good as, worse, or better than, _Stranger Souls_. I ran into some
problems plotting this book, being the middle book in a trilogy. It needed
to be a complete book, with its own narrative arc, and yet it had to bridge
the arc of the entire saga from the end of the first book to the beginning
of the last. I believe that I managed to pull it off, and must admit I had
lots of help from Mike Mulvihill and Jonathan Bond, but I wanted to find out
what you all think.

As always, comments are welcome.

Ciao,

--Jak

Jak Koke La Jolla, CA
----------------------------------------------------------
Check out my "fully armed and operational" web pages at:
http://ursula.uoregon.edu/~jkoke
Message no. 11
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:34:06 GMT
Jak Koke writes
>
> I guarantee that by the end of _Beyond the Pale_, which is the third and
> last book of the Dragon Heart Saga, you will know the answer to the question
> of who killed Dunkelzahn. You will also know the why and the how.
Yah hoo!!!!
[Now all we need are some runners prepared to get into FASA and
'acquire' Mikes copy of that (so Jaks not guilty for what happens
next at FASA), like thats going to happen, not the 2050's yet :) ]

> Whether
> any of this information can be easily integrated into anyone's campaign, I
> don't know. Also, because of the level of secrecy and the fact that most of
> the events in the Dragon Heart Saga occur behind the scenes, only rarely
> will sourcebooks or shadowtalk provide hints about what happened.
>
> If you must know who did it for your campaign and can't wait until _Beyond
> the Pale_ comes out (Feb '98), I'd suggest just trying to figure out
> something that works consistently with your campaign and run with it.
Oh i've had fun already.

> If
> you decide later, after reading _Beyond the Pale_, that you want to change
> it, you can always say that the run your PCs went on (in which they learned
> that Dunkelzahn was assassinated by a secret cadre of Wendigo shamans hired
> by Ordo Maximus and allowed into the Watergate Hotel masked by a powerful
> illusion cast by Tutor and armed with nuclear weapon-foci prepared in
> rituals orchestrated by Winternight and linked by the Blood Mage Gestalt to
> the Quetzalcoatl teocalli in Tenochtitlan) was all a dream, or a freaky
> astral quest on peyote or somesuch. <grin>
>
Um, i managed to get 6 UCAS senators, Alamos 20K, Azzies, Tir's the
UCAS 'astral self forging fragment stuff, winternight, Dragons by the
name of Lung and thier pawns and Special agent Juraez :) involved and
still left it open for whatever answer is hidden in your book. Far
too much fun can be had.

> Please keep in mind that what you read in the novels (and the sourcebooks)
> is primarily entertainment. I worked with FASA to come up with some smokin
> plots and cool characters and I wrote some fun books. I hope I am able to
> give people a few good reads, some distraction, and a lot of entertainment
> as a result. But if what I write doesn't fit your campaign, please ignore it.
>

> BTW, I am curious about whether or not people found _Clockwork Asylum_ to be
> as good as, worse, or better than, _Stranger Souls_. I ran into some
> problems plotting this book, being the middle book in a trilogy. It needed
> to be a complete book, with its own narrative arc, and yet it had to bridge
> the arc of the entire saga from the end of the first book to the beginning
> of the last. I believe that I managed to pull it off, and must admit I had
> lots of help from Mike Mulvihill and Jonathan Bond, but I wanted to find out
> what you all think.
>
I really enjoyed it, it has a starting point left over from book one
and a good end point (thats part one now all we have to do is get it
there without Darke mucking matters up, uh yeah right!)

Certainly one of the more popular books round here, (we also seem to
have a lot of copies of riggers 2 in circulation as well so things
generally are good.) The only real hitch is having to wait for part 3!
It's nice to see the power levels ok without the egos of certain
NPC's getting in the way which has happened in some of the books
involving immortals even when they have been a good read.

Overall i think it might be somewhat better than Stranger Souls,
but...... um difficult.

Mark
Message no. 12
From: Frank Pelletier <jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:38:08 +0000
Jak Koke <jkoke@******.UOREGON.EDU> once wrote,

> To which I write:
>
> I guarantee that by the end of _Beyond the Pale_, which is the third and
> last book of the Dragon Heart Saga, you will know the answer to the question
> of who killed Dunkelzahn. You will also know the why and the how.

Damn...

With all due respect, Mr. Koke, and knowing fully that I, as a SR
peon with no influence whatsoever cannot affect things in any way,
let me say this...

Why do we always feel the need to resolve those conspiracies? Why
couldn't you just let it simmer a couple of years? Inside of 1 year,
we'll know all there is to know about Dunky's death, and you will
kill once of the most interresting plot elements of the SR world.
Yeah, I know the usual: "Well, it's your campaign, do whatever yadda
yadda yadda". But FASA canon, whether you like it or not, is more
often than not followed by a great majority of playgroups.

I thought the discussions surronding the life and death of Dunky
reached levels of realism achieved by real-life conspiracy theories.
We built a small mythology around Dunky, added that aura of
mysticism, of secrecy... The What-ifs are immensly more pleasant than
the facts, IMHO. Ah well...who am I?...

Trinity
------------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
Trinity@********.com, jeanpell@****.qc.ca

"Life is a blur"
Message no. 13
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:34:47 +0500
On 28 Oct 97 at 8:03, Jak Koke wrote:

> BTW, I am curious about whether or not people found _Clockwork
> Asylum_ to be as good as, worse, or better than, _Stranger Souls_.
> I ran into some problems plotting this book, being the middle book
> in a trilogy. It needed to be a complete book, with its own
> narrative arc, and yet it had to bridge the arc of the entire saga
> from the end of the first book to the beginning of the last. I
> believe that I managed to pull it off, and must admit I had lots of
> help from Mike Mulvihill and Jonathan Bond, but I wanted to find out
> what you all think.

It was a good book, Jak. Definitely worth the wait. I did like
Stranger Souls a little better, but only because of the novelty of
it.

It definitely had the "feel" of a middle book. Reminded me a lot like
how I felt after the movie Back to the Future II. While satisifying,
I can feel the tension building yet again.

I can't wait for _Beyond the Pale_.

BTW, are you doing anything for FASA after _Beyond the Pale_?

--
drekhead@***.net
++++
Sig file lost.
++++
Message no. 14
From: Rick St Jean <Platinum@*****.CA>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:01:03 -0500
Frank Pelletier wrote:
>
> Jak Koke <jkoke@******.UOREGON.EDU> once wrote,
>
> > To which I write:
> >
> > I guarantee that by the end of _Beyond the Pale_, which is the third and
> > last book of the Dragon Heart Saga, you will know the answer to the question
> > of who killed Dunkelzahn. You will also know the why and the how.

Wasn't Harlequin involved? I remember him being regretful of the fact
that
he will be involved in killing Big D. The story was Written by Tom
Dowd.
Anyone remember?

>
> Damn...
>
> With all due respect, Mr. Koke, and knowing fully that I, as a SR
> peon with no influence whatsoever cannot affect things in any way,
> let me say this...
>
> Why do we always feel the need to resolve those conspiracies? Why
> couldn't you just let it simmer a couple of years? Inside of 1 year,
> we'll know all there is to know about Dunky's death, and you will
> kill once of the most interresting plot elements of the SR world.
> Yeah, I know the usual: "Well, it's your campaign, do whatever yadda
> yadda yadda". But FASA canon, whether you like it or not, is more
> often than not followed by a great majority of playgroups.
>
> I thought the discussions surronding the life and death of Dunky
> reached levels of realism achieved by real-life conspiracy theories.
> We built a small mythology around Dunky, added that aura of
> mysticism, of secrecy... The What-ifs are immensly more pleasant than
> the facts, IMHO. Ah well...who am I?...

I have to agree. There tidbit is the most interesting thing you guys
have come up with. Most of us were still guessing as to whether or not
he was actually killed. It would be great if he pulled this stunt.
Some things are just better left alone, and I think that this is one of
them.
Message no. 15
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:46:20 -0600
Me too, Bull.

Tony


>
>At 01:58 AM 10/28/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I would love to have that information. If you don't want to post it to
>the list just email it to me at mnj@************.net.
>
>BTW I love you page. <ahh the benifits of working a job where I can surf
>the net to my hearts content...>
>
>>And, if you're interested in ideas for your home game, I can give you
>>details on our versions of:
>>
>>The Scottish Castle that you need to spend the Night In
>>The Elusive TZ
>>The Dragon Flu Serum
>>And info on the recepiant of the Red Dragon thingy (was that a banner, or
>>an arrow, or what? I can;t remember now, but I used the recipiant in a run).
>>
>>D's will makes GREAT fodder for run ideas...
>>



Argent

Rabiola@**.netcom.com
Argent - Elven Fixer Extrodinaire
It was hot, the night we burned Chrome...
Message no. 16
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:10:59 EST
> BTW, I am curious about whether or not people found _Clockwork
> Asylum_ to be as good as, worse, or better than, _Stranger Souls_.
> I ran into some problems plotting this book, being the middle book
> in a trilogy. It needed to be a complete book, with its own
> narrative arc, and yet it had to bridge the arc of the entire saga
> from the end of the first book to the beginning of the last. I
> believe that I managed to pull it off, and must admit I had lots of
> help from Mike Mulvihill and Jonathan Bond, but I wanted to find out
> what you all think.

<plug>
Well, I'll be writing up reviews for Headhunters and Clockwork Asylum
for the Next TSS,
</plug>
and I'll be stating that (IMNSHO) Clockwork Asylum was better than
Stranger Souls....SS introduced the characters, but CA shaped them
and made them multi-dimensional.

Sudden thought....Are yours the only SR books with actual sex scenes?
Just curious, I don't recall anything before, but I don't really
tally these things...

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 17
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:08:31 PST
>No... I've always remembered that shadowtalk in Aztlan about the
>corrupted dragon landing on top of Aztech HQ in Tecnotiltan. And the
>talk about the..hmm... special health status of Juan Azpotasomething.
>So... is he a dragon? Corrupted?
>

I thought Juan was the one who wanted to get gene therapy for
something like cancer or VITAS, and due to a "horrible accident", was
turned into a sentient vat of rabidly growing cells. Not that he's
horror tainted, mind you, or that most cyberzombies die of cancer...
The corrupt dragon further cemments in my mind the link between
Verjigorm and various "evil" magical practices. That sounds like his
"style", although ED mayhaveone corrupt dragon- I vaugely remember
something like that. It was a quasi-horror, too.

MONGOOSE

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 18
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:17:44 -0500
At 03:01 PM 10/28/97 -0500, Rick St Jean wrote these timeless words:

>> > I guarantee that by the end of _Beyond the Pale_, which is the third and
>> > last book of the Dragon Heart Saga, you will know the answer to the
question
>> > of who killed Dunkelzahn. You will also know the why and the how.
>
>Wasn't Harlequin involved? I remember him being regretful of the fact
>that
>he will be involved in killing Big D. The story was Written by Tom
>Dowd.
>Anyone remember?
>
That was originally printed in the 1991 (1992?) product flyer, IIRC, and
Harley talks about killing Dunkelzahn if he gives away too many secrets,
and says "It will be a shame when we have to kill him". Harley has no more
a clue at the moment who illed Dunky than we do (thoughg he may know by the
end of Jak's books:))

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Whoever invented solataire is one sadistic son of a bitch"
-- Me, after spending 2 hours trying to win a game
Message no. 19
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:43:53 GMT
Rick St Jean writes
> > >
> > > I guarantee that by the end of _Beyond the Pale_, which is the third and
> > > last book of the Dragon Heart Saga, you will know the answer to the
question
> > > of who killed Dunkelzahn. You will also know the why and the how.
>
> Wasn't Harlequin involved? I remember him being regretful of the fact
> that
> he will be involved in killing Big D. The story was Written by Tom
> Dowd.
> Anyone remember?
>
No he was noting he didn't know who did it (so Tom Dowd already as
good as said hes dead before Jaks post) but was having trouble
remembering he didn't do it or organise it (remember 'Wrym Talk'
where he said it would have to be done and 'Voices from the past'
which sheds some light on Harlequins memory, especially with some of
that amber liquid of his handy (its the elven brew out of ED the name
of which i forget) )

The story in question is still on FASA's web page though they have
removed the link to it, there is one in the stories section of Palos
archive though that works.

Mark

> > Why do we always feel the need to resolve those conspiracies? Why
> > couldn't you just let it simmer a couple of years? Inside of 1 year,
> > we'll know all there is to know about Dunky's death,
18+ months, the story started Aug 96! at gencon when they released
Dunks secrets.

> > I thought the discussions surronding the life and death of Dunky
> > reached levels of realism achieved by real-life conspiracy theories.
> > We built a small mythology around Dunky, added that aura of
> > mysticism, of secrecy... The What-ifs are immensly more pleasant than
> > the facts, IMHO. Ah well...who am I?...
>
> I have to agree. There tidbit is the most interesting thing you guys
> have come up with. Most of us were still guessing as to whether or not
> he was actually killed.
True though Tom Dowds story had actually answered that though few had
read it.

> It would be great if he pulled this stunt.
> Some things are just better left alone, and I think that this is one of
> them.
>
Yeah, but still nice to know in some ways. As it won't appear in the
sourcebooks though only those that read the book find out, so you
know what to do :), only given how good the books are how will yu
resist :) , mu ha ha :)

Mark
Message no. 20
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:29:40 +0000
And verily, did Tony Rabiola hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Me too, Bull.
|
|Tony

Well... What have we here....


It seems to be the october thwapfest today, doesn't it people...


##### # # # # ## #####
# # # # # # # # #
# ###### # # # # # #
# # # # ## # ###### #####
# # # ## ## # # #
# # # # # # # #


Point 1> READ THE FAQ!
Point 2> Are you realy a lame brain. Or are you a refugee from AOL?!
POINT 3> NEVER, EVER quote an entire post and just add the inane little pile
of bullshit commonly known as a "ME TOO"....
QUOTE BEFORE YOUR REPLY, DELETE WHAT ISN'T RELEVANT, and if you are going to
post a me too, at least have the decency to take the p**s out of aol when
you do it...

<aol>
ME TOO!
</aol>

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 21
From: Spider Murphy <crickel@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:03:46 -0600
Mark Steedman wrote:

> Rick St Jean writes
> > > > I guarantee that by the end of _Beyond the Pale_, which is the third
and
> > > > last book of the Dragon Heart Saga, you will know the answer to the
question
> > > > of who killed Dunkelzahn. You will also know the why and the how.

Dunklezahn isn't dead! He's frozen!

<sulk>

Spider Murphy
Message no. 22
From: Jak Koke <jkoke@******.UOREGON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:56:04 -0800
After I wrote:
>> I guarantee that by the end of _Beyond the Pale_, which is the third and
>> last book of the Dragon Heart Saga, you will know the answer to the question
>> of who killed Dunkelzahn. You will also know the why and the how.

Frank Pelletier wrote:
>Why do we always feel the need to resolve those conspiracies? Why
>couldn't you just let it simmer a couple of years? Inside of 1 year,
>we'll know all there is to know about Dunky's death, and you will
>kill once of the most interresting plot elements of the SR world.

First of all, your point is valid and well taken. However, I do want to say
that the assassination will have occurred about a year and half before
_Beyond the Pale_ is released. Also, and more importantly, the events and
revelations in the book do not 'kill' the plot. I believe they serve to
provide new twists and unexpected turns to it. Information is revealed,
yes. And there is a resolution to the ongoing plot in the saga, but new
elements are introduced which will hopefully serve as a catalyst for
continuing the discussions, and which can be used in various ways by GMs.

Best,

--Jak

Jak Koke La Jolla, CA
----------------------------------------------------------
Check out my "fully armed and operational" web pages at:
http://ursula.uoregon.edu/~jkoke
Message no. 23
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:33:16 -0500
At 11:29 AM 10/29/97 +0000, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>And verily, did Tony Rabiola hastily scribble thusly...
>|
>|Me too, Bull.
>|
>|Tony
>
>Well... What have we here....
>
Chill, Spikey... I agree he misposted somewhat, and SHOULD have cut some
of the original post out...

However, the "Me Too" part wasn;t just an inane AOL agreement post, he was
asking if I could write up a summary of our versions of several of D's Will
stuff taht we've done...:]

But it was fun to watch you go off... It always is...

You know, 99% of Spike's posts aren;t really [OT]. I'd say that only about
75% are... the other 24% are YOU SCREWED UP, ZOT and THWAP posts...;]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Whoever invented solataire is one sadistic son of a bitch"
-- Me, after spending 2 hours trying to win a game
Message no. 24
From: Haloween Jack <ST97000132@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:58:30 -0500
On Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:34:06 GMT Mark Steedman
<M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK> wrote:


> Jak Koke writes
> >
> > I guarantee that by the end of _Beyond the Pale_, which is the third and
> > last book of the Dragon Heart Saga, you will know the answer to the question
> > of who killed Dunkelzahn. You will also know the why and the how.
> Yah hoo!!!!
> [Now all we need are some runners prepared to get into FASA and
> 'acquire' Mikes copy of that (so Jaks not guilty for what happens
> next at FASA), like thats going to happen, not the 2050's yet :) ]
>
> > Whether
> > any of this information can be easily integrated into anyone's campaign, I
> > don't know. Also, because of the level of secrecy and the fact that most of
> > the events in the Dragon Heart Saga occur behind the scenes, only rarely
> > will sourcebooks or shadowtalk provide hints about what happened.
> >
> > If you must know who did it for your campaign and can't wait until _Beyond
> > the Pale_ comes out (Feb '98), I'd suggest just trying to figure out
> > something that works consistently with your campaign and run with it.
> Oh i've had fun already.
>
> > If
> > you decide later, after reading _Beyond the Pale_, that you want to change
> > it, you can always say that the run your PCs went on (in which they learned
> > that Dunkelzahn was assassinated by a secret cadre of Wendigo shamans hired
> > by Ordo Maximus and allowed into the Watergate Hotel masked by a powerful
> > illusion cast by Tutor and armed with nuclear weapon-foci prepared in
> > rituals orchestrated by Winternight and linked by the Blood Mage Gestalt to
> > the Quetzalcoatl teocalli in Tenochtitlan) was all a dream, or a freaky
> > astral quest on peyote or somesuch. <grin>
> >
> Um, i managed to get 6 UCAS senators, Alamos 20K, Azzies, Tir's the
> UCAS 'astral self forging fragment stuff, winternight, Dragons by the
> name of Lung and thier pawns and Special agent Juraez :) involved and
> still left it open for whatever answer is hidden in your book. Far
> too much fun can be had.
>
> > Please keep in mind that what you read in the novels (and the sourcebooks)
> > is primarily entertainment. I worked with FASA to come up with some smokin
> > plots and cool characters and I wrote some fun books. I hope I am able to
> > give people a few good reads, some distraction, and a lot of entertainment
> > as a result. But if what I write doesn't fit your campaign, please ignore it.
> >
>
> > BTW, I am curious about whether or not people found _Clockwork Asylum_ to be
> > as good as, worse, or better than, _Stranger Souls_. I ran into some
> > problems plotting this book, being the middle book in a trilogy. It needed
> > to be a complete book, with its own narrative arc, and yet it had to bridge
> > the arc of the entire saga from the end of the first book to the beginning
> > of the last. I believe that I managed to pull it off, and must admit I had
> > lots of help from Mike Mulvihill and Jonathan Bond, but I wanted to find out
> > what you all think.
> >
> I really enjoyed it, it has a starting point left over from book one
> and a good end point (thats part one now all we have to do is get it
> there without Darke mucking matters up, uh yeah right!)
>
> Certainly one of the more popular books round here, (we also seem to
> have a lot of copies of riggers 2 in circulation as well so things
> generally are good.) The only real hitch is having to wait for part 3!
> It's nice to see the power levels ok without the egos of certain
> NPC's getting in the way which has happened in some of the books
> involving immortals even when they have been a good read.
>
> Overall i think it might be somewhat better than Stranger Souls,
> but...... um difficult.
>
> Mark

AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH!

This is getting on my bloody nerves now. I have tried
without success to get stranger souls, shadowboxer, steel
rain. The last novel I have is the Lucifer Deck. Can
anybody point me at a decent supplier in Wales that has
these books in stock

----------------------
Haloween Jack is Back!

"Love is the fine line between pleasure
and pain. Except if you are into S&M then
its pain! Pain! PAIN!"
Message no. 25
From: Haloween Jack <ST97000132@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:09:54 -0500
On Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:38:08 +0000 Frank Pelletier
<jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA> wrote:


> Jak Koke <jkoke@******.UOREGON.EDU> once wrote,
>
> > To which I write:
> >
> > I guarantee that by the end of _Beyond the Pale_, which is the third and
> > last book of the Dragon Heart Saga, you will know the answer to the question
> > of who killed Dunkelzahn. You will also know the why and the how.
>
> Damn...
>
> With all due respect, Mr. Koke, and knowing fully that I, as a SR
> peon with no influence whatsoever cannot affect things in any way,
> let me say this...
>
> Why do we always feel the need to resolve those conspiracies? Why
> couldn't you just let it simmer a couple of years? Inside of 1 year,
> we'll know all there is to know about Dunky's death, and you will
> kill once of the most interresting plot elements of the SR world.

But what you fail to see is that even with the completion
of the who killed Dunky plot. In the innevetable SR style
they open up another box of worms for us to turn our noses
up at.


> I thought the discussions surronding the life and death of Dunky
> reached levels of realism achieved by real-life conspiracy theories.
> We built a small mythology around Dunky, added that aura of
> mysticism, of secrecy... The What-ifs are immensly more pleasant than
> the facts, IMHO. Ah well...who am I?...
>

You are the same as me, the consumer if it wasn't for us
buying the SR series then they wouldn't be able to work.
Keep in mind that we can alter the SR universe in our own
way (GMing) or by stop purchasing the books



----------------------
Haloween Jack is Back!

"Love is the fine line between pleasure
and pain. Except if you are into S&M then
its pain! Pain! PAIN!"
Message no. 26
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:13:44 -0500
At 30-Okt-97 wrote Haloween Jack:

[_SNIP 80 LINES_]

>AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH!

>This is getting on my bloody nerves now. I have tried
>without success to get stranger souls, shadowboxer, steel
>rain. The last novel I have is the Lucifer Deck. Can
>anybody point me at a decent supplier in Wales that has
>these books in stock

Oh Boy, why did you leave the full post intact, 80 lines, and
then only adding your question how to get the books.

##### # # # # ## #####
# # # # # # # # #
# ###### # # # # # #
# # # # ## # ###### #####
# # # ## ## # # #
# # # # # # # #

This envolves to a Thwap day.....

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Evil Overlord advice #50:

My main computers will have their own special operating system
that will be completely incompatible with standard IBM and
Macintosh powerbooks.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 27
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:19:33 GMT
Haloween Jack writes

Wellcomeback, Bull!!! welcome back bot required here!

> On Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:34:06 GMT Mark Steedman
> <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK> wrote:
> > Jak Koke writes
> > >
> > > I guarantee that by the end of _Beyond the Pale_, which is the third and
> > > last book of the Dragon Heart Saga, you will know the answer to the
question
> > > of who killed Dunkelzahn. You will also know the why and the how.
>
> AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH!
>
> This is getting on my bloody nerves now. I have tried
> without success to get stranger souls, shadowboxer, steel
> rain. The last novel I have is the Lucifer Deck. Can
> anybody point me at a decent supplier in Wales that has
> these books in stock
>
No but i know one in Aberdeen that does mail order and has stock of
the offending novels sitting on the shelves, or did under an hour ago!

Mark
Message no. 28
From: Haloween Jack <ST97000132@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 18:38:03 -0500
On Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:13:44 -0500 Barbie
<barbie@**********.COM> wrote:


> Oh Boy, why did you leave the full post intact, 80 lines, and
> then only adding your question how to get the books.

Expletive !

Sorry about that but my mailer is on the fritz at the
moment. I have been deleting the main crux.

Lets see if this works.


----------------------
Haloween Jack is Back!

"Love is the fine line between pleasure
and pain. Except if you are into S&M then
its pain! Pain! PAIN!"
Message no. 29
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:49:32 -0500
At 30-Okt-97 wrote Haloween Jack:


>Lets see if this works.



Excellent.

BTW: Welcome back in the real live:)

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Evil Overlord advice #50:

My main computers will have their own special operating system
that will be completely incompatible with standard IBM and
Macintosh powerbooks.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 30
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:58:06 +0000
And verily, did Barbie hastily scribble thusly...
|
|At 30-Okt-97 wrote Haloween Jack:
|
|[_SNIP 80 LINES_]

|Oh Boy, why did you leave the full post intact, 80 lines, and
|then only adding your question how to get the books.

|This envolves to a Thwap day.....

And thwapping a venerable old list-member who should know better as well...

*tut* *tut* *tut*...

Don't get into bad habbits jack...
(We don't like non-snippers here now....)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 31
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 16:12:08 -0500
At 05:58 PM 10/30/97 -0500, Haloween Jack wrote these timeless words:

>----------------------
>Haloween Jack is Back!
>
Well then, Jack... Welcome Back!

+++++ BULL-BOT v3.55b ACTIVATED
+++++ AUTO GREET v2.11 INITIATED

Greetings, old list-member Haloween Jack! Welcome Back to the Shadowrn
Mailing List!

It's a great place, with good people and great discussion! Hope ya like mail!

Please read or request the Shadowrn FAQ and read it immediately! It'll
help you out in the future.

Also: Don't ask about Woodchucks.

((PS: if you haven't recieved an Auto Greet and are new to the list,
please send a message to the list stating that you are new. The Bull-Bot
will then greet you shortly))

+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v9.7.0.1 INITIATED
+++++ TOPIC #2045

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+++++ END AUTO GREET

Hmmm... You must have left the list just before I joined last September,
or were really quiet before you left... Either way, glad ta meet ya :]

*wave*

Bull-the-welcome-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Whoever invented solataire is one sadistic son of a bitch"
-- Me, after spending 2 hours trying to win a game
Message no. 32
From: Spidey-mon <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 17:14:46 -0600
>Lets just all assume that he is dead and try to figure out who
> the heck did it.

I say aliens(grey skinned, big black eyes) took him and bombed his car.
Message no. 33
From: Stefan <casanova@******.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:19:29 +0000
> -=SwiftOne=- wrote:

> Sudden thought....Are yours the only SR books with actual sex scenes?
> Just curious, I don't recall anything before, but I don't really
> tally these things...

hehe Yeah I have been thinking about that to ... Jak introduced SEX
in SR ... sure they have woken up together sweaty and stuff in other
books but not like this ...

and another thing .... Arn't humans supposed to be the largest race
population wise ? how come a better part of the runners and powerful
people are metas ? or is that just my imagination ....

/Stefan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage .............................. http://hsl.home.ml.org ...
... HomePage ................... http://www.bugsoft.hik.se/sl11ls/ ...
... ICQ .................................................. 1403212 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 34
From: Stefan <casanova@******.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:19:30 +0000
> Frank Pelletier wrote:
> >

> Wasn't Harlequin involved? I remember him being regretful of the fact
> that
> he will be involved in killing Big D. The story was Written by Tom
> Dowd.
> Anyone remember?

Wasn't there to stories ? The first one where Dunky lands in his yard
.. and Harlequin says afterward that it will be to sad when they have
to kill him ... and then the second one where he disguised as an ork
(or whatever he was) on a parkbench denies all involvment in the
death of Dunkelzahn ?

/Stefan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage .............................. http://hsl.home.ml.org ...
... HomePage ................... http://www.bugsoft.hik.se/sl11ls/ ...
... ICQ .................................................. 1403212 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 35
From: Stefan <casanova@******.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 19:19:29 +0000
> BTW, I am curious about whether or not people found _Clockwork Asylum_ to be
> as good as, worse, or better than, _Stranger Souls_. I ran into some
> problems plotting this book, being the middle book in a trilogy. It needed
> to be a complete book, with its own narrative arc, and yet it had to bridge
> the arc of the entire saga from the end of the first book to the beginning
> of the last. I believe that I managed to pull it off, and must admit I had
> lots of help from Mike Mulvihill and Jonathan Bond, but I wanted to find out
> what you all think.

Infact I thought that Clockwork Asylum was a better book than
Stranger Souls ... I belive that it's because in the second book you
had got to know the people alittle better ...and well I just tought
that it was better ... I just have one question at the moment,

Strapp mentions that there are THREE people that could kill Dunky
there is Mercury and Knight ... but he never mentions the third ?
Why not ? or is that like the TO BE CONTINUED in book three ?


And ofcause the MENTALNOTE! ... Never ever work as a mage
for Quicksilver cause you will die horribly before the end of the
book on some wild run :)

/Stefan
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage .............................. http://hsl.home.ml.org ...
... HomePage ................... http://www.bugsoft.hik.se/sl11ls/ ...
... ICQ .................................................. 1403212 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 36
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <shadowrn@************.NET>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:18:10 -0700
At 06:09 PM 10/30/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>But what you fail to see is that even with the completion
>of the who killed Dunky plot. In the innevetable SR style
>they open up another box of worms for us to turn our noses
>up at.
>
>
>----------------------
>Haloween Jack is Back!

Ah but Fasa is notorious for this. I don't know if anyone has been
reading the battletech series of books. As a comparison, First BTech
trilogy "The Grey Death Legion". It was a basic get to know the world kind
of series. First SR trilogy "Secrets of Power", again a basic get to know
the world series. Second Btech Trilogy "Fourth Sucession War", Major
changes to the Btech universe. Second SR trilogy "Dragon Heart", We don't
know what the repurcussions are going to be. Ahh but don't forget Third
Btech Trilogy "Return of Kerensky", Fasa pulls out the stops and really
throws some upheavals into the BTech universe. What this is telling me is
that we should really fear the 3rd SR Trilogy.
Message no. 37
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:06:00 GMT
on 28.10.97 Platinum@*****.CA wrote:

P> > > To which I write:
P> > >
P> > > I guarantee that by the end of _Beyond the Pale_, which is the third
P> > > and last book of the Dragon Heart Saga, you will know the answer to the
P> > > question of who killed Dunkelzahn. You will also know the why and the
P> > > how.
P>
P> Wasn't Harlequin involved? I remember him being regretful of the fact
P> that
P> he will be involved in killing Big D. The story was Written by Tom
P> Dowd.
P> Anyone remember?

That was in 'Wyrm Talk', IIRC. Harly said that "it will be a pity, when we
have to kill him". But in 'Post Mortem', he says he doesn't know who did
it, so..


[Don't tell us who did it!]
P> I have to agree. There tidbit is the most interesting thing you guys
P> have come up with. Most of us were still guessing as to whether or not
P> he was actually killed. It would be great if he pulled this stunt.
P> Some things are just better left alone, and I think that this is one of
P> them.

Dunkelzahn, the 2050s JFK!




Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 38
From: Haloween Jack <ST97000132@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's will
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:18:26 -0500
On Thu, 30 Oct 1997 19:58:06 +0000 Spike
<u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK> wrote:


> And verily, did Barbie hastily scribble thusly...
> |
> |At 30-Okt-97 wrote Haloween Jack:
> |
> |[_SNIP 80 LINES_]

Sorry about that but I am used to pegasis mailer and the
one I am using now is Simeon?

> |This envolves to a Thwap day.....
>
As you can guess from my sig I do like the occasional thwap
but only on a social basis

> And thwapping a venerable old list-member who should know better as well...
>
> *tut* *tut* *tut*...
>
> Don't get into bad habbits jack...
> (We don't like non-snippers here now....)
>

Ok I should have broken in my E-mail soon.

----------------------
Haloween Jack is Back!

"Love is the fine line between pleasure
and pain. Except if you are into S&M then
its pain! Pain! PAIN!"
Message no. 39
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:27:59 PST
I am wondering if anyone knows any of the stories behind Dunkelzahn's
will. Especially for bequests that he left that have virtually no
gaming value. I'd hate to think I spent 15 bucks just to hear a bunch
of FASA's "inside jokes".

I am also wondering about the following bequest:
"To the first party to develop successful communication between
metahumanity and dolphins, elephants and/or satyr, I leave 40 million
nuyen and his/her/their choice of any of the Cayman Islands."
-p. 30, PoaD

Now, am I correct in assuming he means the little wild satyrs seen in
PAoE? Or does he mean the 'metahuman variant'?

Also, does anyone know who Lars J. Matthews is? And what did he do
to piss Dunkelzahn off so much? See p. 32, PoaD.

And finally, has anyone written up any good stories or runs based on
any of the bequests? Please share. I'm sick of deleting every thread
on this list :)


-Vagabond <nomad74@*******.com><ICQ 4297972>
___________________________________________________________
¹vag·a·bond \va-ge-bänd\ adj. 1: wandering, homeless
2: of, characteristic of, or leading the life of a vagrant
or tramp 3: leading an unsettled or irresponsible life

²vagabond n: one leading a vagabond life; esp : tramp


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Message no. 40
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 02:30:39 -0600
Damon Harper wrote:

> And finally, has anyone written up any good stories or runs based on
> any of the bequests? Please share. I'm sick of deleting every thread
> on this list :)

Lots of fun stuff in dunky will I don't have the boot but know someone
who does
and we came up with a couple of interesting runs form stuff in the
will...

Then again they are also designed to my campaign which is far from FASA
cannon...
They would not like some of the things I did to the universe. One of the
big is the infamous H is dead.
The whole IE thing is very under played in my campaign certain nations
either don't exist or have different boundaries. My version of the SR
universe has many twists and turns away from official cannon. So The
ideas I have would not fit into most folks games. I could explain in
great detail all of the changes I have made but it's probably not worth
the band width.



You live and learn. Or you don't live long.
Message no. 41
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 05:56:03 -0800
Damon Harper wrote:
>
> I am wondering if anyone knows any of the stories behind Dunkelzahn's
> will. Especially for bequests that he left that have virtually no
> gaming value. I'd hate to think I spent 15 bucks just to hear a bunch
> of FASA's "inside jokes".

Well -- yes and no. Some of the "bequeathed" items are very obviously
jokes (the Arrow of Red Dragon Slaying, anyone?) but most are meant as a
jumping-off point for adventures, ideas for GMs. A few are intended to
tie into later Shadowrun releases -- the Dragonheart Saga is a sequel to
the whole muck-up; and, from my understanding, the Blood in the
Boardroom adventure is, in its own way, a follow-up as well.

FASA's been moving away from the
very-fleshed-out-down-to-the-number-of-bullets-an-enemy-samurai-has type
of adventures (which are easy for the GM to use - sometimes - but by and
large one-shot deals) to the more 'conceptual' adventures. This way,
the adventure appeals to both those running high-level campaigns and
those playing dark-n-gritty -- the GM simply makes up stats to meet his
players' level.

I'm starting to sound like a company PR rep. Sorry about that.


Fraid I can't answer your specific questions. Wasn't Lars the drummer
for Metallica? (duck)


-Matt

------------------------------------
With nomads I am numbered. -- E. MacColl
Message no. 42
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:48:12 -0500
At 09:27 PM 2/17/98 PST, Damon Harper wrote these timeless words:
> I am wondering if anyone knows any of the stories behind Dunkelzahn's
>will. Especially for bequests that he left that have virtually no
>gaming value. I'd hate to think I spent 15 bucks just to hear a bunch
>of FASA's "inside jokes".
>
Well, as has been said already (I love repeating things :)), Yes and no :]

I know I've designed two or three adventures already designed using the
"bequest" as a jumping off point to the adventure, and have several more
ideas kicking around. Tinner's done the same...

Perswonally, I loved the book for the read. It was a lot of fun, and had
some damned unique and interesting stuff in it.

> I am also wondering about the following bequest:
> "To the first party to develop successful communication between
>metahumanity and dolphins, elephants and/or satyr, I leave 40 million
>nuyen and his/her/their choice of any of the Cayman Islands."
> -p. 30, PoaD
>
> Now, am I correct in assuming he means the little wild satyrs seen in
>PAoE? Or does he mean the 'metahuman variant'?
>
WIld Satyrs, probably...

> Also, does anyone know who Lars J. Matthews is? And what did he do
>to piss Dunkelzahn off so much? See p. 32, PoaD.
>
<grin>

Nope, but I can make up a dozen reasons or so :]

> And finally, has anyone written up any good stories or runs based on
>any of the bequests? Please share. I'm sick of deleting every thread
>on this list :)
>
Ummm, I'll think about it :]

No time today, but maybe in a bit :]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka Chaos, aka a lot of others! :]

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Message no. 43
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 05:17:33 PST
>Damon Harper wrote:
>
>> And finally, has anyone written up any good stories or runs based
on
>> any of the bequests? Please share. I'm sick of deleting every
thread
>> on this list :)

scrose wrote:
>They would not like some of the things I did to the universe. One of
the
>big is the infamous H is dead.

Note to Tom Dowd: Second Axiom for role-playing: Who said you had
to give stats for someone to kill it?




-Vagabond <nomad74@*******.com><ICQ 4297972>
___________________________________________________________
¹vag·a·bond \va-ge-bänd\ adj. 1: wandering, homeless
2: of, characteristic of, or leading the life of a vagrant
or tramp 3: leading an unsettled or irresponsible life

²vagabond n: one leading a vagabond life; esp : tramp


______________________________________________________
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Message no. 44
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 05:25:23 PST
>Well -- yes and no. Some of the "bequeathed" items are very obviously
>jokes (the Arrow of Red Dragon Slaying, anyone?) but most are meant as
a
>jumping-off point for adventures, ideas for GMs. A few are intended to
>tie into later Shadowrun releases -- the Dragonheart Saga is a sequel
to
>the whole muck-up; and, from my understanding, the Blood in the
>Boardroom adventure is, in its own way, a follow-up as well.

How is BitB tied into the will, do you know?
[snip the blindingly obvious]

>I'm starting to sound like a company PR rep. Sorry about that.

Let's just hope that doesn't throw this off topic, mister :)

>
>
>Fraid I can't answer your specific questions. Wasn't Lars the drummer
>for Metallica? (duck)

That would be Lars Ulrich. And again, at the risk of throwing this
off topic, I will say no more. :)



-Vagabond <nomad74@*******.com><ICQ 4297972>
___________________________________________________________
¹vag·a·bond \va-ge-bänd\ adj. 1: wandering, homeless
2: of, characteristic of, or leading the life of a vagrant
or tramp 3: leading an unsettled or irresponsible life

²vagabond n: one leading a vagabond life; esp : tramp


______________________________________________________
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Message no. 45
From: CALMON PEDRO MARANHAO <calmpm1@*************.NICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:02:58 CST
> They would not like some of the things I did to the universe. One of the
> big is the infamous H is dead.
> The whole IE thing is very under played in my campaign certain nations
> either don't exist or have different boundaries. My version of the SR
> universe has many twists and turns away from official cannon. So The
> ideas I have would not fit into most folks games. I could explain in
> great detail all of the changes I have made but it's probably not worth
> the band width.
>
I would like to hear it.
Message no. 46
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:12:55 -0500
At 09:27 PM 2/17/98 PST, you wrote:
> I am wondering if anyone knows any of the stories behind Dunkelzahn's
>will. Especially for bequests that he left that have virtually no
>gaming value. I'd hate to think I spent 15 bucks just to hear a bunch
>of FASA's "inside jokes".
>
>
How about this. I know for a fact that some of the people included in the
will are real characters being played (or at least used to be, who knows
what's happened since then?) by people like...me!

I think we can divide up the will into two main parts: big story devices
(such as the whole Dragonheart trilogy) and "throw-away" bequests that
won't affect FASA's development of the SR story. My character was included
in one of the "throw-away" bequests. I must hasten to add, that if I
actually was still playing in my original campaign (sort of hard to do so,
since I graduated from university and moved states), this "throw-away"
bequest would have had major implications in our campaign. But to everyone
else in the world, it probably meant little to nothing.

Knowing Steve, I have very little doubt that a number of people other than
me were invited to tell a little something about their main PC so they
would be included in the will.

And now for what you've all been wanting to read...

I don't have my books with me, so don't crucify me if I get the details
wrong...

My main PC, who's real name is Derrick Erding, was the recipient of the
Banner of the Red Dragon, out of respect for his heritage. "May you use it
well." Or something like that.

Now here's the background story so anybody else can use it in their
campaign if they so choose.

With my GM's approval, I decided that Derrick was actually part of the
mostly lost Welsh royal bloodline (I say mostly because while the main line
died, the Welsh royal bloodlines are so twisted and strange there are
likely still people that can say they are related to it). Took him several
years and a number of strange occurrences, metaplanar quests, dreams and
visions, but he finally found out his heritage. This of course means that
he spends much of his time (well, all since I haven't been actively
playing) studying in Wales and generally being a rabble-rouser, agitating
for Welsh separation from England. This hasn't endeared him to the
English, most of the Welsh nobility (especially that one elf woman, the
Countess of Harlech I think) who view him as an outsider, the English corps
because of past ties to Fuchi, Aztlan and Lofwyrr because of his close ties
with Rhonabwy, the Welsh dragon, and both Tirs. And a good portion of the
common people don't really care that much.

Which basically means that there is an increase in Welsh political activism
and terrorism against the English government and a strong increase in
interest by the Welsh in their culture and language.

So while he might have some blue blood and a neato-keen magic item
(consider a "leadership" item...) from the Big D's will, his life has only
become a whole lot more difficult. Almost makes him long for the simpler
days of normal shadowrunning...

BTW, I know some people will probably scream "munchkin!" but the games I
have played in have mostly been "power" games. In a very conscious effort
on my part, I made Derrick a (semi) blue-blood, knowing that it would make
his life difficult...which makes for a whole lot more role-playing
opportunity than is in most "power games." I did that a few times,
knowingly putting my PC into situations that would come back later to haunt
him, knowing they would create great role-playing opportunities at a later
date. Made playing those "power games" a whole lot of fun; not only could
I enjoy playing a very strong PC, I could do a whole lot of very fun and
difficult role-playing.

But that's enough from me. You wanted a story from Dunkelzahn's will, you
got one. I'm sure there have got to be a few more out there on RN...

Erik J.

Blobby! Blobby! Blobby! Blobby!
Message no. 47
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:49:55 -0800
Damon Harper wrote:

As fuzzy as my recollection is :), this might count as spoilers for some
folks, so I'm putting in the standard twenty-four.


























> >Well -- yes and no. Some of the "bequeathed" items are very obviously
> >jokes (the Arrow of Red Dragon Slaying, anyone?) but most are meant as
> >a jumping-off point for adventures, ideas for GMs. A few are intended to
> >tie into later Shadowrun releases -- the Dragonheart Saga is a sequel
> >to the whole muck-up; and, from my understanding, the Blood in the
> >Boardroom adventure is, in its own way, a follow-up as well.

> How is BitB tied into the will, do you know?

I'm not sure how accurate this is; I dimly recall someone else on the
list posting it. But basically El Draco's death shuffled a lot of money
around and destroyed the old balance of power in certain companies. The
Dragonheart Saga - gah, I didn't like it that much, but it's canon -
details how Nadja Daviar gives voting rights for her two percent share
of stock in some company -- Ares? - to, basically, one of two people
contending for "top dog" -- they have the majority of shares between the
two of them, only their split evenly between the two of them. When
Daviar gives her voting rights away, the one who gets em finally gains
control of the company.

And it's not a happy story, as it basically tears the company apart.
And once one of the dominos starts to tilt, they all fall right over.

Gah. Wish I had the material in front of me right now. But you don't
want me spoiling the entire surprise, do you? :) But, yeah, it's a
follow-up of sorts.




------------------------------------
With nomads I am numbered. -- E. MacColl

Nomad.. Vagabond.. eh, same-same.
Message no. 48
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:17:59 -0500
At 05:25 AM 2/18/98 PST, Damon Harper wrote these timeless words:

> How is BitB tied into the will, do you know?
>[snip the blindingly obvious]
>
Well, besides the obvious fact that Draco FOundation is effectively a new
Megacorp... There were some major shifts in political power within several
of the corps due to where Dunky dimped his stocks... Mel's last book and
Jak's Trilogy both dealt with some of the reprucussions to this already,
adn more are coming all the time :]

>>I'm starting to sound like a company PR rep. Sorry about that.
>
> Let's just hope that doesn't throw this off topic, mister :)
>
<chuckle>

I thought PR for FASA was my job :]

See ya!

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka Chaos, aka a lot of others! :]

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Message no. 49
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:39:06 -0500
At 01:12 PM 2/18/98 -0500, Erik Jameson wrote these timeless words:

[SNIP]

>My main PC, who's real name is Derrick Erding, was the recipient of the
>Banner of the Red Dragon, out of respect for his heritage. "May you use it
>well." Or something like that.
>
[SNIP]

Hehe...:]

I used That bequest for background to one of my runs...

(short version on)

I ran this concordant with the events from Elven Fire, BTW, so there was
lots of anarchy in Seattle in the time...;]

Basically, Derrick hires the team to retrieve his daughter, who ran away a
couple years ago. He's finally tracked her down, and she's shacked up with
a lieutenant in the Ancients. He's passing himself off as a wealthy
businessman, and he wants the runners to bring her back unharmed. He
stresses unharmed, of course.

After much nastiness, including getting caught in between a rumble between
the Steppinwulfs and the Ancients, the team manages to get near Samantha
The daughter) and her boyfriend, when one of the Steppinwulf's shoots the
boyfriend. She gets pissed.

Sam get Pissed. Sam turn into dragon. Players jaws all hit the floor (It
was a priceless moment :)).

Turns out Samantha is really a Dragon, as is daddy Derrick. (Thus the Red
Dragon Banner:)). It was all a little feud between Samantha, who was a
REALLY young dragon, and she was going through some "rebellious" years. :]

Lots of fun... Now aren;t you glad to know you're really a Dragon, Erik?
<grin>

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka Chaos, aka a lot of others! :]

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me?? What are you... A GUY??"
-- Michael J. Fox on "Spin City"
Message no. 50
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:27:43 -0500
At 06:39 PM 2/18/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Turns out Samantha is really a Dragon, as is daddy Derrick. (Thus the Red
>Dragon Banner:)). It was all a little feud between Samantha, who was a
>REALLY young dragon, and she was going through some "rebellious" years. :]
>

Holy drek!!! Wow. Interesting to see what you did with it; light years
away from "The Truth." But still very cool...

Oh. I should clarify something. The national symbol of Wales is the red
dragon, which is on its flag...hence the name of the banner...hence the
reason a claimant to the Welsh royal line would possibly inherit that
banner...

Isn't there anyone else on this list that was in the will? There's gotta
be someone...I mean, Bull and a few others had their PCs posting in the
books (I have at least one NPC who falls into this category as well), and
we know certain people affiliated with FASA at least scan this list (Hi
Steve if your're still watching...) so there MUST be someone else around
that was in the will...otherwise it just looks like I'm showing off or
something...


>Lots of fun... Now aren;t you glad to know you're really a Dragon, Erik?
><grin>
>
>
Actually, it's almost too bad I'm not a dragon. While I would probably
still be just as bored as I am now, the _possibilities_ for amusement would
be so much greater...not to mention the traditional treasure horde...and
aren't dragons always capturing beautiful virgins to "devour"?

Erik J.

list.member.not-really-a-dragon-despite-what-Bull-claims

"Being good at your job is less fulfilling than you might think Dogbert."
Message no. 51
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:26:16 -0500
At 07:27 PM 2/18/98 -0500, Erik Jameson wrote these timeless words:

>>Turns out Samantha is really a Dragon, as is daddy Derrick. (Thus the Red
>>Dragon Banner:)). It was all a little feud between Samantha, who was a
>>REALLY young dragon, and she was going through some "rebellious" years.
:]
>>
>
>Holy drek!!! Wow. Interesting to see what you did with it; light years
>away from "The Truth." But still very cool...
>
<chuckle>

Itwas really cool to find out "The Truth" though :]

>Oh. I should clarify something. The national symbol of Wales is the red
>dragon, which is on its flag...hence the name of the banner...hence the
>reason a claimant to the Welsh royal line would possibly inherit that
>banner...
>
Hehe... I didn;t know that off hand (Though now that you mention it, I now
remember seeing the flag before...:))

I basically decided it was an In Joke from one dragon (A Blue one) to
another (A Red :)).

Either way, it made for some serious fun... And let me tell you, the
Players were REALLY glad they didn;t shoot the girl dragons Boyfriend,
cause she was PISSED :]

>Isn't there anyone else on this list that was in the will? There's gotta
>be someone...I mean, Bull and a few others had their PCs posting in the
>books (I have at least one NPC who falls into this category as well), and
>we know certain people affiliated with FASA at least scan this list (Hi
>Steve if your're still watching...) so there MUST be someone else around
>that was in the will...otherwise it just looks like I'm showing off or
>something...
>
Hmmm... Nahh, you aren't showing off... Much...

At least no more than we did :]

Feel proud! It;s a really cool little club to be in :]

>>Lots of fun... Now aren;t you glad to know you're really a Dragon, Erik?
>><grin>
>>
>>
>Actually, it's almost too bad I'm not a dragon. While I would probably
>still be just as bored as I am now, the _possibilities_ for amusement would
>be so much greater...not to mention the traditional treasure horde...and
>aren't dragons always capturing beautiful virgins to "devour"?
>
I'm NOT going to touch that one... <grin>

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka Chaos, aka a lot of others! :]

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me?? What are you... A GUY??"
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Message no. 52
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 03:31:52 PST
>As fuzzy as my recollection is :), this might count as spoilers for
some
>folks, so I'm putting in the standard twenty-four.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> How is BitB tied into the will, do you know?
>
>I'm not sure how accurate this is; I dimly recall someone else on the
>list posting it. But basically El Draco's death shuffled a lot of
money
>around and destroyed the old balance of power in certain companies.
The
>Dragonheart Saga - gah, I didn't like it that much, but it's canon -

For the record, I agree, the more I reflect on it.

>details how Nadja Daviar gives voting rights for her two percent share
>of stock in some company -- Ares? - to, basically, one of two people
>contending for "top dog" -- they have the majority of shares between
the

If it's Ares(and I'll bet it is), it'll prolly be between Damien
Knight and Leonard Aurelius.

>two of them, only their split evenly between the two of them. When
>Daviar gives her voting rights away, the one who gets em finally gains
>control of the company.

It'll be interesting to see who gets the proverbial "brass ring".
I'm sure Daviar would be reluctant to give it up, but her love of Knight
isn't exactly overflowing. Knight's the more popular character(we've
all heard of him), but the odds lean toward Aurelius. Place your bets,
boyz and grrlz.

>
>And it's not a happy story, as it basically tears the company apart.
>And once one of the dominos starts to tilt, they all fall right over.
>
>Gah. Wish I had the material in front of me right now. But you don't
>want me spoiling the entire surprise, do you? :) But, yeah, it's a
>follow-up of sorts.

Well, please, don't say who gets the final percentage. I think we
should all wait for the book. But thanx for the info- and to think, I
almost wasn't going to buy it :)

>
>------------------------------------
>With nomads I am numbered. -- E. MacColl
>
>Nomad.. Vagabond.. eh, same-same.
>
Wanna know something more scary? Damien is german for Damon... Damon
is Nomad spelled backwards... nomad is a synonym for Vagabond...
Mwahahaha! >:)

-Vagabond



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Message no. 53
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:49:38 +0000
And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|
|At 06:39 PM 2/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
|
|>Turns out Samantha is really a Dragon, as is daddy Derrick. (Thus the Red
|>Dragon Banner:)). It was all a little feud between Samantha, who was a
|>REALLY young dragon, and she was going through some "rebellious" years. :]
|>

Who's Derrick?
Don't you mean Darrin?

So which dragon would Uncle Arthur be? Dunky?
(I'm assuming you're talking Bewitched here....)

--
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Message no. 54
From: David Yellope <dyellope@**************.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:11:31 GMT
On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 03:31:52 PST, you wrote:

>>As fuzzy as my recollection is :), this might count as spoilers for
>some
>>folks, so I'm putting in the standard twenty-four.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> For the record, I agree, the more I reflect on it.
>
>>details how Nadja Daviar gives voting rights for her two percent share
>>of stock in some company -- Ares? - to, basically, one of two people
>>contending for "top dog" -- they have the majority of shares between
>the
>
> If it's Ares(and I'll bet it is), it'll prolly be between Damien
>Knight and Leonard Aurelius.
>
>>two of them, only their split evenly between the two of them. When
>>Daviar gives her voting rights away, the one who gets em finally gains
>>control of the company.
>
> It'll be interesting to see who gets the proverbial "brass ring".
>I'm sure Daviar would be reluctant to give it up, but her love of Knight
>isn't exactly overflowing. Knight's the more popular character(we've
>all heard of him), but the odds lean toward Aurelius. Place your bets,
>boyz and grrlz.
>
>>
>>And it's not a happy story, as it basically tears the company apart.
>>And once one of the dominos starts to tilt, they all fall right over.
>>
>>Gah. Wish I had the material in front of me right now. But you don't
>>want me spoiling the entire surprise, do you? :) But, yeah, it's a
>>follow-up of sorts.
>
> Well, please, don't say who gets the final percentage. I think we
>should all wait for the book. But thanx for the info- and to think, I
>almost wasn't going to buy it :)

There's actually three candidates to go Boom.. Ares.. but we all know
that's a hot spot.. then we have Fuchi with the Villiers trying to
hold off the two Japanese famalies (can't remember their names right
now).. and as a dark horse, Renraku.. Dunky's will gave a huge chunk
of stock to uber-security Fuchi man Miles Lanier.. Rumours were high
that the 'Rak was going to try to ice Lanier

Hentai at large... Fanfic Writer.. RPG addict
You send me spam.. I send you a bill. $15 per spam
By sending me garbage.. you indicate your acceptance
of these terms.

==========================
==========================
===
Some people prefer to hide their head in the sand..
to make problems go away. I just become a BIGGER problem
and I make THEM go away! <G>
==========================
==========================
=======
Message no. 55
From: s c rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:47:02 -0600
Matb wrote:
>
> Damon Harper wrote:

> > How is BitB tied into the will, do you know?
>
> I'm not sure how accurate this is; I dimly recall someone else on the
> list posting it. But basically El Draco's death shuffled a lot of money
> around and destroyed the old balance of power in certain companies. The
> Dragonheart Saga - gah, I didn't like it that much, but it's canon -
> details how Nadja Daviar gives voting rights for her two percent share
> of stock in some company -- Ares? - to, basically, one of two people
> contending for "top dog" -- they have the majority of shares between the
> two of them, only their split evenly between the two of them. When
> Daviar gives her voting rights away, the one who gets em finally gains
> control of the company.

It is Ares and it's more than 2% it's enough to give The Mr Knight a
clear majority voting block.
I'm also working from memory on this one it's in the second book of the
dragon heart or maybe Jak can
give us the exacts if he's reading this.
Message no. 56
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:23:16 -0500
At 11:49 AM 2/19/98 +0000, you wrote:

>|>Turns out Samantha is really a Dragon, as is daddy Derrick. (Thus the Red
>|>Dragon Banner:)). It was all a little feud between Samantha, who was a
>|>REALLY young dragon, and she was going through some "rebellious" years.
:]
>|>
>
>Who's Derrick?
>Don't you mean Darrin?
>
>So which dragon would Uncle Arthur be? Dunky?
>(I'm assuming you're talking Bewitched here....)
>
>

Huh?!? Bewitched? What the frag does an old, terrible American sitcom
have to do with this?

I'm lost...

Erik J.

list.member.confused
Message no. 57
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:23:42 -0500
Sorry, but in order to answer properly, I left everything quoted...just a
warning...I did try to make it as easy as possible to separate my quotes
out from the rest.

At 03:11 PM 2/19/98 GMT, you wrote:

>>>As fuzzy as my recollection is :), this might count as spoilers for
>>some
>>>folks, so I'm putting in the standard twenty-four.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> For the record, I agree, the more I reflect on it.
>>
>>>details how Nadja Daviar gives voting rights for her two percent share
>>>of stock in some company -- Ares? - to, basically, one of two people
>>>contending for "top dog" -- they have the majority of shares between
>>the
>>
>> If it's Ares(and I'll bet it is), it'll prolly be between Damien
>>Knight and Leonard Aurelius.
>>
>>>two of them, only their split evenly between the two of them. When
>>>Daviar gives her voting rights away, the one who gets em finally gains
>>>control of the company.
>>
>> It'll be interesting to see who gets the proverbial "brass ring".
>>I'm sure Daviar would be reluctant to give it up, but her love of Knight
>>isn't exactly overflowing. Knight's the more popular character(we've
>>all heard of him), but the odds lean toward Aurelius. Place your bets,
>>boyz and grrlz.
>>


Well, I don't recall where it is stated, but in one of the sourcebooks (I
think it's Target: UCAS actually) it reveals that our old pal Damien Knight
got control of Daviar's stock. Nobody knows how, or for how long. So
right now, Knight is consolidating his power, Aurelius is scrambling to
survive/strike back, and Detroit has become a more interesting place to run
the shadows.


>>>
>>>And it's not a happy story, as it basically tears the company apart.
>>>And once one of the dominos starts to tilt, they all fall right over.
>>>
>>>Gah. Wish I had the material in front of me right now. But you don't
>>>want me spoiling the entire surprise, do you? :) But, yeah, it's a
>>>follow-up of sorts.
>>
>> Well, please, don't say who gets the final percentage. I think we
>>should all wait for the book. But thanx for the info- and to think, I
>>almost wasn't going to buy it :)
>


While the exact percentage isn't given, it's not by much. Just add
together Gavilan Industries to Knight's percentages from the Corporate
Shadowfiles book, which, of course, I don't have in front of me. I think
it gives Knight something like a 9-point advantage. Which puts Knight in
an excellent position.


>There's actually three candidates to go Boom.. Ares.. but we all know
>that's a hot spot.. then we have Fuchi with the Villiers trying to
>hold off the two Japanese families (can't remember their names right
>now).. and as a dark horse, Renraku.. Dunky's will gave a huge chunk
>of stock to uber-security Fuchi man Miles Lanier.. Rumours were high
>that the 'Rak was going to try to ice Lanier
>
>


Okay, Fuchi is probably about to go boom - Villiers has the edge right now
and is holed up in Boston doing his best to consolidate power. Even if the
company does shatter, he will probably end up heading a major second tier
business. The Yamana and the Nakatomi (?) families are desperately doing
everything they can to trash Villiers, each other, and gain power. Sort of
like before, but with a vastly increased urgency.

As far as former Fuchi security head Miles Lanier and Renraku goes, he's
actually sat in on board meeting several times I think. And yes, he has
survived a number of assassination attempts, probably coming from both
Renraku AND Fuchi (frag, they had to change nearly their entire security
arrangement on the fly when he left).

In other words, all this has done is to gear things up for the upcoming
corporate war in the next sourcebook, due out next month in the US I think,
called "Blood in the Boardroom." It's looking like a gotta-have.

Erik J.

list.member.corporate-wage-slave
Message no. 58
From: Remy <thierryt@*********.CA>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:48:35 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will


>Sorry, but in order to answer properly, I left everything quoted...just a
>warning...I did try to make it as easy as possible to separate my quotes
>out from the rest.
>
>At 03:11 PM 2/19/98 GMT, you wrote:
>
>>>>As fuzzy as my recollection is :), this might count as spoilers for
>>>some
>>>>folks, so I'm putting in the standard twenty-four.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> For the record, I agree, the more I reflect on it.
>>>
>>>>details how Nadja Daviar gives voting rights for her two percent share
>>>>of stock in some company -- Ares? - to, basically, one of two people
>>>>contending for "top dog" -- they have the majority of shares
between
>>>the
>>>
>>> If it's Ares(and I'll bet it is), it'll prolly be between Damien
>>>Knight and Leonard Aurelius.
>>>
>>>>two of them, only their split evenly between the two of them. When
>>>>Daviar gives her voting rights away, the one who gets em finally gains
>>>>control of the company.
>>>
>>> It'll be interesting to see who gets the proverbial "brass
ring".
>>>I'm sure Daviar would be reluctant to give it up, but her love of Knight
>>>isn't exactly overflowing. Knight's the more popular character(we've
>>>all heard of him), but the odds lean toward Aurelius. Place your bets,
>>>boyz and grrlz.
>>>
>
>
>Well, I don't recall where it is stated, but in one of the sourcebooks (I
>think it's Target: UCAS actually) it reveals that our old pal Damien Knight
>got control of Daviar's stock. Nobody knows how, or for how long. So
>right now, Knight is consolidating his power, Aurelius is scrambling to
>survive/strike back, and Detroit has become a more interesting place to run
>the shadows.
>
>
>>>>
>>>>And it's not a happy story, as it basically tears the company apart.
>>>>And once one of the dominos starts to tilt, they all fall right over.
>>>>
>>>>Gah. Wish I had the material in front of me right now. But you don't
>>>>want me spoiling the entire surprise, do you? :) But, yeah, it's a
>>>>follow-up of sorts.
>>>
>>> Well, please, don't say who gets the final percentage. I think we
>>>should all wait for the book. But thanx for the info- and to think, I
>>>almost wasn't going to buy it :)
>>
>
>
>While the exact percentage isn't given, it's not by much. Just add
>together Gavilan Industries to Knight's percentages from the Corporate
>Shadowfiles book, which, of course, I don't have in front of me. I think
>it gives Knight something like a 9-point advantage. Which puts Knight in
>an excellent position.



Its in clockWorm Asylum

Basically ... Knight exchanged QuickSilver's Life for the Socks from
Gavillian ... and its 12% ... not 2% ...

DarkFox
Message no. 59
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:53:59 +0000
And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|Huh?!? Bewitched? What the frag does an old, terrible American sitcom
|have to do with this?

Terrible?
INFIDEL!
:)

I missed the beginning of the converstaion, and Samantha *is* the main witch
in Bewitched....

|I'm lost...

So am I. What was the thread about then?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 60
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:46:40 -0500
At 10:53 PM 2/19/98 +0000, you wrote:
>
>I missed the beginning of the conversation, and Samantha *is* the main witch
>in Bewitched....
>
>|I'm lost...
>
>So am I. What was the thread about then?
>

Andrew, check the subject header. One list member wanted to know if anyone
had used or knew anything about the bequests in Dunkelzahn's will. I told
a story about one of my characters (Derrick Erding, not Darrin) that got
something in the will. Bull then told a story about how he used that
bequest, in which Derrick was a dragon, who had a daughter
named...Samantha. No "Bewitched" involved.

Now really. If you aren't just yanking my chain, why in the frag would we
talk about "Bewitched" on this list? Especially with a Subject header with
"Re: Dunkelzahn's Will?" I know how RN can got off-topic, but that's
ridiculous.

*sigh* I suppose now THIS is off-topic...just don't thwap! me too hard.
I'm old and I have bad knees...

Erik J.

list.member.old-timer
Message no. 61
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:22:16 +0000
And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|Now really. If you aren't just yanking my chain, why in the frag would we
|talk about "Bewitched" on this list? Especially with a Subject header with
|"Re: Dunkelzahn's Will?" I know how RN can got off-topic, but that's
|ridiculous.

Oh, I've seen worse, believe me.
A lot worse.

|*sigh* I suppose now THIS is off-topic...just don't thwap! me too hard.
|I'm old and I have bad knees...
|
|Erik J.
|
|list.member.old-timer
|

How long? You've obviously not been on for a while, or at least, not posted
for a long time.

Extended break or something? Pre 1995 would be my guess, seeing as I don't
remember the name.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 62
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:11:14 +0100
Spike said on 0:22/20 Feb 98...

> |Erik J.
> |
> |list.member.old-timer
>
> How long? You've obviously not been on for a while, or at least, not posted
> for a long time.
>
> Extended break or something? Pre 1995 would be my guess, seeing as I don't
> remember the name.

The quote in NERPS: Underworld's Credits section is accurate...

Spike, you know how you've been called list.member.grumpy at times? Erik
is the one to whom that title was first applied, and IIRC it was before my
time, even; I certainly remember the name from my early days on the list.
Erik's been on NERPS for a couple of years now, and apparently recently
re-joined ShadowRN.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
That's just fine.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 63
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:18:49 -0500
[discussion about the will snipped]

The vast majority of bequests in the will are "throwaway" items, which is to
say, there are no plans to develop them further in other Shadowrun products.
That's not to say some of them won't be; authors have come up for uses for
will items in their stories that weren't originally planned and will probably
continue to do so, but the idea is to provide a bunch of "story hooks"
gamemasters can develop as they see fit.

There are some "real" (i.e., player) characters mentioned in the will. Some
are former PCs from my own Shadowrun games (like several of the members of
Dunkelzahn's "fixer network"), others are from the Shadowrun APA "Scrawls
from the Sprawls" of which I am a contributor and some are from folks I met
over the 'net and chatted with. FASA inserted some of their own bequests, as
did several other Shadowrun authors.

Anyone who gets "a token of [Dunkelzahn's] esteem" is actually a real person
who won the Election '57 contest from Super Tuesday. I believe they each got
a copy of the book : )

Most of the bequests are yours to do with as you will. Pretty much, the ones
being developed have been by now, the rest are pretty much open. Have fun
with 'em. I'd personally love to hear any of the plotlines people have
developed using the bequests in their own campaigns.

Have fun!
Steve K.
Message no. 64
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:36:20 -0500
At 10:18 AM 2/20/98 -0500, you wrote:

>
>There are some "real" (i.e., player) characters mentioned in the will. Some
>are former PCs from my own Shadowrun games (like several of the members of
>Dunkelzahn's "fixer network"), others are from the Shadowrun APA
"Scrawls
>from the Sprawls" of which I am a contributor and some are from folks I met
>over the 'net and chatted with. FASA inserted some of their own bequests, as
>did several other Shadowrun authors.
>
>Anyone who gets "a token of [Dunkelzahn's] esteem" is actually a real person
>who won the Election '57 contest from Super Tuesday. I believe they each got
>a copy of the book : )
>
>Have fun!
>Steve K.
>

Thank you so much Steve. I was really beginning to think I was looking
like some braggart or something, which isn't what I had intended by telling
my story.

Thanks!

Erik J.
Message no. 65
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:47:49 +0000
And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
|Spike, you know how you've been called list.member.grumpy at times? Erik
|is the one to whom that title was first applied, and IIRC it was before my
|time, even; I certainly remember the name from my early days on the list.
|Erik's been on NERPS for a couple of years now, and apparently recently
|re-joined ShadowRN.

OOOO....
Goody...
Kindred spirits...

Fancy some synchronised THWAPping from time-to-time?
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 66
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Will
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:29:48 +0000
In article <980220101849_-1987140033@******.mx>, Steve Kenson
<TalonMail@***.COM> writes
>The vast majority of bequests in the will are "throwaway" items, which is to
>say, there are no plans to develop them further in other Shadowrun products.
>That's not to say some of them won't be; authors have come up for uses for
>will items in their stories that weren't originally planned and will probably
>continue to do so, but the idea is to provide a bunch of "story hooks"
>gamemasters can develop as they see fit.

One of my ShadowTK chracaters acquired Glamis Castle, and doing so was
neither easy nor pleasant for her.

She decided that "the lands associated" _didn't_ include all of
Scotland, since Birnam Wood has now come to Dunsinane on an apparently
permanent basis. One trifles with ancient legends at one's peril.

But owning a passable piece of land on the borders of the Wild Lands has
its own appeal...


--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Dunkelzahn's will, you may also be interested in:

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