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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (benoit rasoli)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 10:25:02 2002
I wonder for some time now if a great wyrm can realy
die that way. I mean : Drek is a fraggin dragon, he
has way of magic that are not to be explain so why
would he die in a bombing. But if he's still alive how
the DC rift has arrived?
I have my own answer to that but would like to know
what other pepole think so : What do think about that?

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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Daniel Powell)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 10:35:01 2002
I never really bought the fact that Dunkhelzan was dead. It seemed like he
used his last ditch escape plan to leave through the rift. Of course, if
the bomb as magical in nature that may explain how the rift was created. I
think FASA and the crew are much like Marvel Comics... Jean Grey's Dead, no
she's alive, no she's ghostwalker, no she's a shedim... with the game
trading hands I don't think we can be sure if we'll ever know the original
intention... so anything's possible.


Daniel Powell
"Friends come, and friends go, but enemies accumulate."I

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Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 11:05:05 2002
>I never really bought the fact that Dunkhelzan was dead. It seemed like he
>used his last ditch escape plan to leave through the rift.

Okay...stupid question. What rift and where is it detailed?!?!?

Meph
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Daniel Powell)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 11:20:01 2002
When Dunkhelzan was blown up a large rift into astral space appeared in that
spot hovering above the ground. It is the source of much speculation,
research, and interest.

SPOILER:


















In Year Of The Comet, a dragon "ghost" cleverly called "Ghostwalker"
reappears through the rift along with a bunch of spirits in his wake.
Ghostwalker goes and finds his physical body and takes control of Denver.
Ghostwalker is speculated to be related to Dunkhelzan but nothing concrete.


>From: "Meph" <meph@*********.net>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.com
>To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
>Subject: Re: Dunkhelzan death?
>Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:01:43 -0700
>
>
> >I never really bought the fact that Dunkhelzan was dead. It seemed like
>he
> >used his last ditch escape plan to leave through the rift.
>
> Okay...stupid question. What rift and where is it detailed?!?!?
>
>Meph
>
>
>


Daniel Powell
"Friends come, and friends go, but enemies accumulate."

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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 11:25:01 2002
> SPOILER:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In Year Of The Comet, a dragon "ghost" cleverly called
"Ghostwalker"
> reappears through the rift along with a bunch of spirits in his wake.
> Ghostwalker goes and finds his physical body and takes control of Denver.
> Ghostwalker is speculated to be related to Dunkhelzan but nothing
concrete.
>

Thanks...I gotta pick up YOTC...sounds cool!

Meph
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Philip Allchin)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 11:30:02 2002
For all your answers to Dunkhelzan's death, I refer you to the
Dragon Heart saga. Trilogy of SR novels from FASA that went into
the whole death of Dunkie story line. Pretty well written for SR
novels, though very hard to find now.

-----Original Message-----
From: shadowrn-admin@*********.com
[mailto:shadowrn-admin@*********.com]On Behalf Of Daniel Powell
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 10:33 AM
To: shadowrn@*********.com
Subject: Re: Dunkhelzan death?


I never really bought the fact that Dunkhelzan was dead. It seemed like he
used his last ditch escape plan to leave through the rift. Of course, if
the bomb as magical in nature that may explain how the rift was created. I
think FASA and the crew are much like Marvel Comics... Jean Grey's Dead, no
she's alive, no she's ghostwalker, no she's a shedim... with the game
trading hands I don't think we can be sure if we'll ever know the original
intention... so anything's possible.


Daniel Powell
"Friends come, and friends go, but enemies accumulate."I

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Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nate Borys)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 11:35:01 2002
You find out what really happened in the Dragon Heart Saga (a triligy)


>From: "Daniel Powell" <l0_jak@*******.com>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.com
>To: shadowrn@*********.com
>Subject: Re: Dunkhelzan death?
>Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:18:07 -0500
>
>When Dunkhelzan was blown up a large rift into astral space appeared in
>that
>spot hovering above the ground. It is the source of much speculation,
>research, and interest.
>
>SPOILER:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>In Year Of The Comet, a dragon "ghost" cleverly called
"Ghostwalker"
>reappears through the rift along with a bunch of spirits in his wake.
>Ghostwalker goes and finds his physical body and takes control of Denver.
>Ghostwalker is speculated to be related to Dunkhelzan but nothing concrete.
>
>
>>From: "Meph" <meph@*********.net>
>>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.com
>>To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
>>Subject: Re: Dunkhelzan death?
>>Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:01:43 -0700
>>
>>
>> >I never really bought the fact that Dunkhelzan was dead. It seemed like
>>he
>> >used his last ditch escape plan to leave through the rift.
>>
>> Okay...stupid question. What rift and where is it detailed?!?!?
>>
>>Meph
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Daniel Powell
>"Friends come, and friends go, but enemies accumulate."
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>




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Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 12:00:01 2002
>From: "Meph" <meph@*********.net>
> Okay...stupid question. What rift and where is it >detailed?!?!?

I'm not going to say anything!!!

Just incase there are players who're still 'running in the '50's (like my
players!)

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

S
P
O


The Dunkelzhan Rift is where Dunkelzahn's spirit tore back into the material
world just before he reclaimed his body and laid seige to Denver.
All this occurs in 2061 and is detailed (fairly sparsely) in YOTC (Year of
the Comet) I believe it may also be touched on elsewhere as after Halley's
Comet has passed he goes off to patrol the metaplanar borders. (MitS
perhaps?)

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Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 12:00:08 2002
>From: "Philip Allchin" <pla5874@**.rit.edu>
>For all your answers to Dunkhelzan's death, I refer you to the
>Dragon Heart saga. Trilogy of SR novels from FASA that went into
>the whole death of Dunkie story line. Pretty well written for SR
>novels, though very hard to find now.

Hard? Impossible in the UK at least! I've had people looking for it in
bookshops, bookshops trying to order it and I've hunted high and low at
every con I've been to in the past, what, two and a half years?

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Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nate Borys)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 12:20:02 2002
The Dragon Hear Saga




S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E




Ok, in the dragon heart sage basicly you find out the use of blood magic is
making the return of the Horrors (Earthdawn nasties). Old Dunky knew this
and created a powerful magical artifact to assist the spirt whos job it was
to hold them back. There was just one flaw, the only way to power the device
was to sacrifice him self and divirt most of his essance into it. He kept
just enough to become a rather powerful spirt but had no memory of his past.
in the end he uses the artifact against the horrors reastablishing the
barrier holding them and though the use of the item regains the knowlege of
who he really is.

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Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Beilby)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 12:20:09 2002
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
> S
> P
> O
>
>
> The Dunkelzhan Rift is where Dunkelzahn's spirit tore back into the
material
> world just before he reclaimed his body and laid seige to Denver.
> All this occurs in 2061 and is detailed (fairly sparsely) in YOTC (Year of
> the Comet) I believe it may also be touched on elsewhere as after Halley's
> Comet has passed he goes off to patrol the metaplanar borders. (MitS
> perhaps?)

Ghost Walker is NOT Dunkelzahn. He is Dunkelzahn's brother.
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Xeo Krell)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 12:55:01 2002
***Lurk mode off***
Maybe someone will give out the information from YOTC and the book trilogy.
I would, but my copy of the novels are loaned out to a friend and I have not
seen them or him in a couple of month. He is active military.
I hope someone out on the list has both and would do a BIG favor and post
the info, or send it to those who ask.
***Lurk mode on***
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 13:45:11 2002
According to benoit rasoli, on Tue, 16 Apr 2002 the word on the street was...

> I wonder for some time now if a great wyrm can realy
> die that way. I mean : Drek is a fraggin dragon, he
> has way of magic that are not to be explain so why
> would he die in a bombing. But if he's still alive how
> the DC rift has arrived?
> I have my own answer to that but would like to know
> what other pepole think so : What do think about that?

I think you need to read the Dragonheart Trilogy of novels, as that will
answer your question :)

--
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Dat is de kip voor het ei spannen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Philip Allchin)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 15:40:01 2002
Ah. So its not alright to fuck up a style standard. It is alright to waste
download space repeating the replies of others that you know full well are
there. Makes perfect sense to me. And my group wonders why I seldom post to
this list.
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bryan Pow)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 21:40:01 2002
> Just incase there are players who're still 'running in the '50's (like my
> players!)
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
> S
> P
> O
>
> The Dunkelzhan Rift is where Dunkelzahn's spirit tore back into the material
> world just before he reclaimed his body and laid seige to Denver.
> All this occurs in 2061 and is detailed (fairly sparsely) in YOTC (Year of
> the Comet) I believe it may also be touched on elsewhere as after Halley's
> Comet has passed he goes off to patrol the metaplanar borders. (MitS
> perhaps?)

Okay, firstly, it wasn't Dunk. Most believe it to be Icewing from Earthdawn, who was
closely related to Dunk (Brother I
think) and the rest of his actions fit with that.
Secondly, Dunk is dead and aint comming back. As many have said, read the Dragon Heart
Saga. It details very good reasons
for him never coming back (Such as preventing the destruction of the world)

Thirdly (and this is opinion) who says Ghostwalker had to "pick up" his body? In
Harlequins Back dons't Harlquin move his
physical body to the astral and back again? Why can't a dragon do this? How do we know ALL
dragons didn't do this?

--
Ein scharfes Schwert schneidet sehr, eine scharfe Zunge noch viel mehr.
The tongue is sharper than any sword.
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (benoit rasoli)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 22:30:01 2002
<For all your answers to Dunkhelzan's death, I refer
you to the
Dragon Heart saga. Trilogy of SR novels from FASA that
went into
the whole death of Dunkie story line. Pretty well
written for SR
novels, though very hard to find now.>

Actually I've read it (it stil can be found in France,
I know I'm lucky but I have to wait for months until I
can have the novels so...)and the answer are ...well,
strange. So if we stack to what is said : Dunkie IS
dead by his own hand (OK so far no problem) because he
knew that in order to stop a massive attack of evil
spirts from the astral plane he must kill himself to
fill an artifact he forged (here it's begining to be a
bit...weird). He has made a kind of son (Ryan Mercury)
who is so half a Dragon (well...)in order to remind
him of his quest wich he knew he will forgot...

OK I can't agree with such a twisted plot, so in fact
my question was : Do you agree with what was said in
the Dragonheart trilogy ?

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Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (The Laughing Man)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Tue Apr 16 23:30:01 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Pow" <powbr323@*******.otago.ac.nz>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: Dunkhelzan death?
> Thirdly (and this is opinion) who says Ghostwalker had to "pick up" his
body? In Harlequins Back dons't Harlquin move his
> physical body to the astral and back again? Why can't a dragon do this?
How do we know ALL dragons didn't do this?
>
>
>

Very simply put, Harlequin is one of the few people who can do this(You can
count it on one-hand) If you private e-mail me i can explain this in DEEP
Detail.
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Wed Apr 17 00:10:00 2002
On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:01:43 -0700
"Meph" <meph@*********.net> wrote:

>
> >I never really bought the fact that Dunkhelzan was dead. It seemed like he
> >used his last ditch escape plan to leave through the rift.
>
> Okay...stupid question. What rift and where is it detailed?!?!?

"Portfolio of a Dragon: Dunkhelzahn's Secrets" is where it first appears.
When the dragon's limo blew up, it left no trace except for a big-ass
rift on astral space, one that swallowed any astral form that got too
close. It also had some pretty colors :).

There's not much more info than that in the book. The thing is mentioned
again in YoTC (which I haven't read yet), because Ghostwalker (a Great
Dragon) comes to the Sixth World through it. It seems there is a novel
that explains what it is exactly, but the comments I've read indicated
it was rather disappointing :).

--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowlandbr.hpg.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Wed Apr 17 00:10:04 2002
On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:32:38 -0500
"Daniel Powell" <l0_jak@*******.com> wrote:

> I never really bought the fact that Dunkhelzan was dead. It seemed like he
> used his last ditch escape plan to leave through the rift. Of course, if
> the bomb as magical in nature that may explain how the rift was created. I
> think FASA and the crew are much like Marvel Comics... Jean Grey's Dead, no
> she's alive, no she's ghostwalker, no she's a shedim... with the game
> trading hands I don't think we can be sure if we'll ever know the original
> intention... so anything's possible.

Tough I haven't read the novels myself, I've catched enough discussions
about this to know it's all officialy explained in the Dragon Heart
Trilogy... It goes somewhat like this:

S

P

O

I

L

E

R


S

P

A

C

E

Dunkie killed himself. It wasn't a mere bomb that did it. It was a bomb
combined with a powerful magical ritual, planned by the dragon and
executed by some of his allies and servants. The rift was probably an
unforeseen consequence.

His death was a sacrifice made in order to activate a magical artifact
that would be able to stop the Horrors (big nasties that would soon come
and eat the world) from reaching Earth. It seems Dunkie's ghost came
back and possessed a cyberzombie, to make sure it all went according to
his plans. Yes, the power level of the Dragon Heart Trilogy is about on
par with that of the zaniest Marvel Comics :).



--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowlandbr.hpg.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Wed Apr 17 04:50:01 2002
>From: Bryan Pow <powbr323@*******.otago.ac.nz>
> > S
> > P
> > O
> > I
> > L
> > E
> > R
> >
> > S
> > P
> > A
> > C
> > E
> >
> > S
> > P
> > O
> >
>Thirdly (and this is opinion) who says Ghostwalker had to "pick up" his
>body? In Harlequins Back dons't Harlquin move his
>physical body to the astral and back again? Why can't a dragon do this? How
>do we know ALL dragons didn't do this?

We don't know whether they can or not to my knowlege but we do know that
Dunkelzahn's body was left in his will to the Dunkelzahn Institute of
Magical Research (check the word on the street on www.shadowrunrpg.com if
you haven't already for a copy of the will) and whoever came through the
rift stopped off to pick up the body on its way to Denver.
So little "real" information about dragons and their abilities is actually
listed (presumably intentionally so that fasa could say "but dragons have
been able to do that all along... honest.") that we can't be sure of
anything.

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Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Wed Apr 17 11:00:05 2002
>From: "Xeo Krell"

>***Lurk mode off***
>Maybe someone will give out the information from YOTC and the book
> >trilogy. I would, but my copy of the novels are loaned out to a >friend
>and I have not seen them or him in a couple of month. He is >active
>military. I hope someone out on the list has both and would do >a BIG
>favor and post the info, or send it to those who ask.
>***Lurk mode on***

SPOILERS BELOW
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
Dragonheart Saga

Book 1: Dunkhelzan dies, his student Ryan Mercury sets out with Dragonheart
(powerful orichalcum focus left to him in Dunk's will. Cyberzombie named
Burnout sent after Mercury by someone in Aztlan. Immortal Elf Thalia sends
her best servant, the spirit Lethe, to get help in keeping Horrors from
returning to Earth.
Ryan gets captured by Azzies, bad guy wants to wipe Ryan's psyche and put
himself into Ryan's body...nifty.


Salient points:
1. the astral rift in DC is created by the magic involved in Dunk's
death...it is pretty, defies analysis, and sucks in any astral entity that
touches it (permanent, gone, dead?)...not too healthy for projecting mages
2. Ryan is not just the adept he seems...the Dragonheart is just a big power
focus (apparently), so why can an adept use it?
3. the guy in Aztlan after Mercury has nothing to do with the "big picture"

Book 2: Ryan is treated with nasty drugs (leys) and bad guy (who is just a
blob in a vat hooked up to the Matrix) is trying to implant his personality
and memories into Ryan's body. Ryan's buddies rescue him but hard times
ahead for Ryan, who does not have it all together. Lethe is trying to get
Dragonheart for Thalia. Burnout wants Dragonheart because it is a bright
magic shiny...cybermancy does ugly things to the soul. Ryan recovers
slowly, and has a big showdown with Burnout...wins. Lethe possesses Burnout
(who is an eight year old boy...gotta love the Azzies), and they chase after
Ryan to make sure he takes the Dragonheart to Thalia.

Salient Points:
1. Ryan is waaay too cool for just a plain vanilla adept

2. the blob in the vat is a nasty guy, but he gets his...VR hosts and
"ghosts in the machine" make a fun addition to the party

3. blob in vat is not even the real problem...someone is trying to bring the
Horrors to Earth faster

Book 3: Enter Harlequinn into the fun...who just happens to remember Thalia
from back in the day. Astral quests and gernal fun...Ryan's not human or
just an adept...surprise surprise. He's a drake...magical shapchanging
constructs created by dragons to serve them. Dunk's death not all that it
seems? Indications of possible self-sacrifice and/or "bigger plot". The
Dragonheart is not just a power focus, nope...it is a "hammer" for smacking
down astral "spikes" of energy that Horrors can use as bridges to Earth.
Ryan heads for Azzie land, Harlequinn suits up for astral battle,
Burnout/Lethe follows. Begin "climatic showdown"...with real villain, some
not too pleasant fellow named Darke (sound familiar?) Big bad 24-7 blood
ritual going on to make one BIG spike (bridge) for Horrors to cross.
Thousands being killed. Ryan goes drake-time, turning into minature dragon.
Harlequinn and company get medieval on blood mages, blood spirits, and
lesser Horrors. Burnout crashes the meatworld party and puts some hurt on
the Azzies, bites it, and frees Lethe to join the fray. Lethe breaks bridge
with Dragonheart. Darke buys the farm (maybe), and blood ritual is over.
Ryan get human again, and all is (fairly) well. Lethe puts the Dragonheart
inside himself and goes off smashing "spikes"...and thinking he might change
his name to Dunkhelzan. Go figure.

Salient Points:
1. Dunk might have been the target of an assassination attempt, but it would
not have worked if he did not let it. He sacrificed himself to power the
Dragonheart. Remind anyone of an old thread? (hint: 'good' "blood magic"
and alternatives)
2. Someone did not read astral rules very well, because the Dragonheart was
a physical object that went completely astral
3. One of Darke's follower was having a crisis of concious when he turned
her into a blood spirit. After Darke dies, she goes free, and asks
Harlequinn, Lethe, and company for a purpose. They tell her to go make up
for all the deaths she caused as a priestess under Darke. Fuel for another
old thread
(free blood spirits doing good?)
4. Never ever let a PC be a drake/cyberzombie/immortal elf ;>

That about sums up what I remember of the trilogy. This should answer most
questions that are pre-YOTC.
In some posts I have read things this answers, but I'll point out some
particulars.
1: Lethe, not Dunk, possessed the cyberzombie
2: Dunk is not coming back for a while...he's in the body of a spirit and he
is busy smashing mana spike that would let Horrors come to Earth.
3: The magical rift was created by Dunk's death, not Ghostwalker's
appearance.
4: If Dunk is not Mountainshadow, I'm a Japanese elven
decker...waiting...waiting...darn...I guess they are one and the same. ;P

Korishinzo

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Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Wed Apr 17 11:35:14 2002
>From: "The Laughing Man"

> > Thirdly (and this is opinion) who says Ghostwalker had to "pick up"
> >
>his body? In Harlequins Back dons't Harlquin move his
> > physical body to the astral and back again? Why can't a dragon do > >
>this? How do we know ALL dragons didn't do this?


>Very simply put, Harlequin is one of the few people who can do this
> >(You can count it on one-hand) If you private e-mail me i can explain
> >this in DEEP Detail.

Okay, Harlequinn can move his physical body into astral space? I must have
missed something in the HB adventure. I am fairly certain he was
duplicating the Astral Gateway power of free spirits, allowing non-mage
characters to project into the metaplanes. This power allows for limitless
astral projection, as you do not lose essence as long as the spirit
maintains the gateway. In fact, IIRC, the characters "wake up" from the HB
adenture sprawled on the floor as if they had been sleeping. I am fairly
positive that which is meat can not wander the astral. And while I have not
read YOTC, I am betting Ghostwalker cannot take physical things into astral
space either. In Earthdawn, some powerful mages used a big ritual to send a
city into the metaplanes in the hopes of hiding it from the Horrors. The
repurcussions and ramifications make it very clear that this is not
something that is A: easy, or B: advisable.

Great Dragon and Immortal Elves alike have to play by at least some of the
rules everyone else does. Otherwise, they are not rules.

Korishinzo

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Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Wed Apr 17 16:50:01 2002
On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:47:57 +0000
"Lone Eagle" <loneeagle2061@*******.com> wrote:

> >From: Bryan Pow <powbr323@*******.otago.ac.nz>
> > > S
> > > P
> > > O
> > > I
> > > L
> > > E
> > > R
> > >
> > > S
> > > P
> > > A
> > > C
> > > E
> > >
> > > S
> > > P
> > > O
> > >
> >Thirdly (and this is opinion) who says Ghostwalker had to "pick up" his

> >body? In Harlequins Back dons't Harlquin move his
> >physical body to the astral and back again? Why can't a dragon do this? How
> >do we know ALL dragons didn't do this?
>
> We don't know whether they can or not to my knowlege but we do know that
> Dunkelzahn's body was left in his will to the Dunkelzahn Institute of
> Magical Research (check the word on the street on www.shadowrunrpg.com if
> you haven't already for a copy of the will) and whoever came through the
> rift stopped off to pick up the body on its way to Denver.

It's not Dunkhelzahn's body, tough: he died in a rather nasty explosion
and the body was completely destroyed. The explosion was what caused the
rift to appear.

--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowlandbr.hpg.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com
Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Daniel Powell)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Wed Apr 17 17:05:02 2002
> > >From: Bryan Pow <powbr323@*******.otago.ac.nz>
> > > > S
> > > > P
> > > > O
> > > > I
> > > > L
> > > > E
> > > > R
> > > >
> > > > S
> > > > P
> > > > A
> > > > C
> > > > E
> > > >
> > > > S
> > > > P
> > > > O
> > > >
> > >Thirdly (and this is opinion) who says Ghostwalker had to "pick
up" his
> > >body? In Harlequins Back dons't Harlquin move his
> > >physical body to the astral and back again? Why can't a dragon do this?
>How
> > >do we know ALL dragons didn't do this?
> >
> > We don't know whether they can or not to my knowlege but we do know that
> > Dunkelzahn's body was left in his will to the Dunkelzahn Institute of
> > Magical Research (check the word on the street on www.shadowrunrpg.com
>if
> > you haven't already for a copy of the will) and whoever came through the
> > rift stopped off to pick up the body on its way to Denver.
>
>It's not Dunkhelzahn's body, tough: he died in a rather nasty explosion
>and the body was completely destroyed. The explosion was what caused the
>rift to appear.

but I thought we established Dunky left his body to the Foundation in his
will? Did he just leave them a fingernail and pile of scales?

Izod


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Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gerard)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Wed Apr 17 18:20:09 2002
From: "Daniel Powell" <l0_jak@*******.com>
> > > > > S
> > > > > P
> > > > > O
> > > > > I
> > > > > L
> > > > > E
> > > > > R
> > > > >
> > > > > S
> > > > > P
> > > > > A
> > > > > C
> > > > > E
> > > > >
> > > > > S
> > > > > P
> > > > > O
> > > > >
> but I thought we established Dunky left his body to the Foundation in his
> will? Did he just leave them a fingernail and pile of scales?
>
> Izod

Well I assume he did write his will years before he died and kept it
updated...my guess is he simply just didn't get time or didn't think to
alter his will before sacrificing himself/getting blown up/insert other
theory here and that previous to that event had planned to live a long/er
life and donate his body to science. :)

I think all that was left of him physically was a pile of talon clippings he
gave to some magical research place...there certainly wasn't any notable
remains left in the wreck of the vehicle to my knowledge (don't have
dunkie's will with me atm)

-Gerard
Message no. 26
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Achille Autran)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Wed Apr 17 21:20:01 2002
>From: "Daniel Powell" <l0_jak@*******.com>
>
>but I thought we established Dunky left his body to the Foundation in his
>will? Did he just leave them a fingernail and pile of scales?

The fact that he legated his body to the DIMR does not imply that there is
a body to be recovered. Ack, why do I have to speak like a mathematician?
Anyway. People carry organ donor cards in case they die in ways that may
let their organs suitable for a transplantation. Most often, the death make
organs unsuitable (here, here, I have a fine cyrrotic liver for you!) It's
the same for dragons: some clauses of their will may not apply due to
particular death circumstances. Unless dunky somehow managed to write his
will after his death... ;-)

OTOH, since Dunky apparently knew the way he'd die, he may have included
that clause in his will just to fool people into NOT thinking he knew about
his own death, and at least expected a body remaining - just what you did !
How devious are these overgrown lizards !

Molloy
Message no. 27
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death?
Date: Thu Apr 18 06:25:10 2002
>From: "Gerard" <sjwinzar@*********.com.au>
> > > > > > S
> > > > > > P
> > > > > > O
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > L
> > > > > > E
> > > > > > R
> > > > > >
> > > > > > S
> > > > > > P
> > > > > > A
> > > > > > C
> > > > > > E
> > > > > >
> > > > > > S
> > > > > > P
> > > > > > O
> > > > > >
> > but I thought we established Dunky left his body to the Foundation in
>his
> > will? Did he just leave them a fingernail and pile of scales?
> >
> > Izod
>
>Well I assume he did write his will years before he died and kept it
>updated...my guess is he simply just didn't get time or didn't think to
>alter his will before sacrificing himself/getting blown up/insert other
>theory here and that previous to that event had planned to live a long/er
>life and donate his body to science. :)
>
>I think all that was left of him physically was a pile of talon clippings
>he
>gave to some magical research place...there certainly wasn't any notable
>remains left in the wreck of the vehicle to my knowledge (don't have
>dunkie's will with me atm)

He left I think three bequests of "a years worth of talon clippings" but he
also left the Dragonheart, he therefore knew he was going to sacrifice
himself to invigorate it (which as Korishinzo points out is a perfect
example for the good blood spirits thread, I just can't work out why it
wasn't thrown into the mix while the thread was still going :-) )
I may be confusing things in my own head but I'm sure that the draconic form
which came through the Dunkelzahn Rift stopped off to pick up the corpse of
the big D.

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Message no. 28
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Dunkhelzan death
Date: Thu Apr 18 10:00:01 2002
>From: Benjamin John Hayes

SPOILERS BELOW
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
> > Dragonheart Saga

>The bad guy is actually Thomas Roxborough, shareholder in AZT and UO,
>and general nasty piece of work

Yes, he was. :>

>Roxborough is trying to get a body that works properly. The ghost in
>the machine is one of the original Echo Miragers, one of the one's who
>supposedly died. Can't quite remember whom, but she was the wife of
>someone still prominent.

Rox nearly succeeded, and definately caused Ryan Mercury a few nightmares.
The "ghost in the machine" is Alice. She was somehow related to Damien
Knight, but I do not know if she was his wife, or just a friend.

> > 2. Someone did not read astral rules very well, because the
> > Dragonheart was a physical object that went completely astral

>I don't think the Dragonheart would be covered by the rules for foci
>at all. I suspect it's not a focus.

So? It was still a physical object with an active astral presence, hence
possessing a dual signature. Creatures and objects with a dual signature
cannot seperate their astral body from their physical body, as a rule, and
they can definately not take their physical body into the metaplanes with
them. Thus, no matter what the Dragonheart was, there should be a lump of
orichalcum lying around somewhere in the physical world.

>I also got the impression that Dunk's spirit was Lethe, it just took
>awhile to remember, mainly due to death being a rather traumatic
>experience. And wasn't he still inside Burnout at the end, just the
>boy's spirit died? 3 years since I read it I believe.

No, no, and no.

Lethe existed long before Dunk died. In the prelude of the first book,
Lethe is basking in the beauty of Thalia's song bfore we see Dunk climbing
into a certain fateful limo. The boy (Billy) went with Lethe to hear Thalia
sing after they escaped the cybermantic shell holing them in the
cyberzombie. Lethe and Dunk become merged after Lethe puts the Dragonheart
into his own astral body, fusing the two.

Korishinzo

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