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Message no. 1
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dwarfs & Stuff : etc etc
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 13:27:55 GMT
Wilson Reis de Souza Neto writes

> Hey guys, the first character i've played was the infamous "dwarf
> with FN-HAR" archetype . Just in case, hav you guys ever noticed that
> there isn't an "Troll with Ingram" or "Orc with HEMs" in the
basic
> sourcebook?
> Here in Brazil we don't have access to all the sourcebooks available,
> so the dwarf was kinda cool to play with, till we discovered the
> "real" coolness of the Trolls & Orcs.
>
I have heard before how the Orc street samuria (in Street sams
catalogue) has affected folks vision of Orcs

> Well, another comments:
> ('bout munchkinness)
> You guys could please say if i'm wrong...
> Is it REALLY possible to make an sorcery adept character, with
> Resources A , Magic B, Skill C, Attribute D, Race E.
Yep.

> Spend then 1mega nuyen in focus and 50 force points with focus and
> spells. And create and 3d6 initiative, essence full,
There are swveral ways to get your 3D6, boosted reflexes 3, wired 2,
inc reflexes +2D6 spell locked etc. (note as an adept spell locks you
cannot go astral to defend are just asking for someone to ground a
nice friendly hellblast through them.)

> 10 dice stun bolt,
Force limit 6 at startup, in my game at least that means including
fetish and exclusive spell modifiers! because otherwise this is just
the ticket, or the area effect version in the Grimoire!

> with invisibility at will,
You mean improved invisibility in a spell lock, yes legal, astral
perception and thermographic vision see right through. I ban spell
locks being turned on and off at will because of this trick. [IMHO
its just too powerful, the tech equivalent, ruthmoid polymers is FAR
more difficult to acquire, you want to be invisible take that +2 TN
modifier to sustain the spell!]

> 1 grade initiated etc etc etc?
Ah force points for initiation is an optional rule. By the book not a
standard option, i strongly advise banning this and making initiation
something the PC's have to work to achieve PC initiates get common
enough as it is.

> My players don't have this kind of dream, but i was thinking about
> it, and it's kinda very very much nastier than the average starting
> character, isn't it?
Yes, though similarly nasty things can be done with mundanes as well,
wired reflexes 3 being the easy way, or troll with musclue
augmentation 4 (if the GM allows bioware at startup [not advised])
and a ranger arms compound bow. Yes STR10 + 4 with a str +4M weapon,
thats 18M and bows don't go bang! and its against impact armour. (and
then they dikote the arrows, try 19S!)

> - note: sorcery adepts cannot astral project, this can suck the
> fraggin' focus, but just try to forget this for a while.
this is what controls this sort of abuse, just give someplace an
astral security mage and ground a nice fireball through that spell
lock, now check for fire elemental effects and all the ammo and
grenades the party is carrying :), the rest of the players won't
allow that astral christmas tree twice :)

> ('bout drones) (and munchkiness)
>
> I once needed an efficient area killing machine. So i picked an old
> HER, dissassembled it, and installed the explosive device in the
> "cargo hold " of a Dalmatian drone. (not exactly a Dalmatian, but a
> cheaper version with 1CF cargo created by the GM).
> Well, i've created an 20K nuyen bomb. Expensive, but quite
> efficient, since it kamikazed exactly on target...
> What 'bout this?
>
Perfectly legal, in fact if you can find it 16Kg of C12 is cheaper
than that HER, now sprt16 = 4 *12 = 48D, umh, great dragon, i don't
see no great dragon over there (looking at cloud of debris where the
dragon had been standing)
Note explosions this size have a habit of attracting unwelcome
attention with lone star badges riding in mobmasters (note plural) or
getting you drekked on by the Mob family whos restraunt you blew up
in the colateral damage.

> ('bout the list)
>
> Please, if you are still reading this, and if you are serious
> thinking about replyin' , please, think twice. Don't reply unless
> you really have something interesting to say. People tend to repeat
> themselves when answerin msgs.
>
After some other comments made, the solution is 'everybody read ALL
your mail before replying', i know it means having to go back but it
does reduce the quantity of identical replies to easy questions and
saves you time if you find out someone else help the poor soul out
(saves you having to do it)

> ('bout my English)
> It sucks
>
Easy enough to understand so thats ok. At least you will get free
lessons coping with this list :)

> ('bout the autogreet)
>
> Why should i ask about woodchucks??
You should not. Its an old list joke after someone started a very off
topic thread about woodchucks that resulted in hundreds of very silly
emails that had nothing to do with shadowrun. The result annoyed a
lot of people who had to block delete a lot of rubbish.
I'll explain here as most the post is Sr and this avoids another post
just about this wretched thread.

There has been TOO MUCH mention of this again recently! Any chance of
you putting further offenders in the woodchuck chipping plant Fro?

Mark
Message no. 2
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Dwarfs & Stuff : etc etc
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 14:49:20 +0100
>> with invisibility at will,
>You mean improved invisibility in a spell lock, yes legal, astral
>perception and thermographic vision see right through.

Right about astral perception but wrong about thermographic. If someone
with cybereyes looks at an invisible individual, he sees him as well as if
he had normal eyes because he has paid essence to get this eyes and so they
are a part of him (that's why a mage can throw spells with cybereyes). If a
camera or something like this looks at him, it can see him if he uses
invisibility but not if he uses improved invisibility. Anyway, you always
have a chance to notice him because he has to walk and to breath.

>> My players don't have this kind of dream, but i was thinking about
>> it, and it's kinda very very much nastier than the average starting
>> character, isn't it?
>Yes, though similarly nasty things can be done with mundanes as well,
>wired reflexes 3 being the easy way, or troll with musclue
>augmentation 4 (if the GM allows bioware at startup [not advised])
>and a ranger arms compound bow. Yes STR10 + 4 with a str +4M weapon,
>thats 18M and bows don't go bang! and its against impact armour. (and
>then they dikote the arrows, try 19S!)

In game terms. It seems stupide that someone (even if he is a troll) could
make an arrow more powerful than an assault canon ammo.
That makes me think about a rule giving each weapon a maximum damage code.

>Perfectly legal, in fact if you can find it 16Kg of C12 is cheaper
>than that HER, now sprt16 = 4 *12 = 48D, umh, great dragon, i don't
>see no great dragon over there (looking at cloud of debris where the
>dragon had been standing)

Note that they didn't only use normal explosives. It had something magical.
We should never know if without it big D would have survived.

>> ('bout my English)
>> It sucks
>>

Mine is worse !

Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "You are who you know"
Message no. 3
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dwarfs & Stuff : etc etc
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 15:25:37 GMT
William Gallas writes

> >> with invisibility at will,
> >You mean improved invisibility in a spell lock, yes legal, astral
> >perception and thermographic vision see right through.
>
> Right about astral perception but wrong about thermographic. If someone
> with cybereyes looks at an invisible individual, he sees him as well as if
> he had normal eyes because he has paid essence to get this eyes and so they
> are a part of him (that's why a mage can throw spells with cybereyes). If a
> camera or something like this looks at him, it can see him if he uses
> invisibility but not if he uses improved invisibility. Anyway, you always
> have a chance to notice him because he has to walk and to breath.
>
You are thinking of the difference between invis and imprved. Must
check but i'm preety sure invis is only against 'regular' vision (ie
human as opposed to metahuman).

> >and a ranger arms compound bow. Yes STR10 + 4 with a str +4M weapon,
> >thats 18M and bows don't go bang! and its against impact armour. (and
> >then they dikote the arrows, try 19S!)
>
> In game terms. It seems stupide that someone (even if he is a troll) could
> make an arrow more powerful than an assault canon ammo.
> That makes me think about a rule giving each weapon a maximum damage code.
>
It is rather mad but quite possible. Note the Panther cannon shell
does a base D, and will certainly do more damage to the body, but
dead is still dead.

> >Perfectly legal, in fact if you can find it 16Kg of C12 is cheaper
> >than that HER, now sprt16 = 4 *12 = 48D, umh, great dragon, i don't
> >see no great dragon over there (looking at cloud of debris where the
> >dragon had been standing)
>
> Note that they didn't only use normal explosives. It had something magical.
> We should never know if without it big D would have survived.
>
Just an example, and had they just done this to Dunky he would
probably have lived (prime runners lists a great dragon with force 20
spells, add a force 20 barrier spell to his armour rating and a
dragon can stage down a 8D, however a 'by the SR2 rules [ie non
character] dragon is chuky dragon soup). I wasn't thinking of D wen i
used this example. Note also a 48D would have happily killed everyone
in that street unlike the explosion that got Dunk.

Mark
Message no. 4
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: Dwarfs & Stuff : etc etc
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:35:12 +0000
On 5 Nov 97, Mark Steedman disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
by writing:


> Yes, though similarly nasty things can be done with mundanes as
> well, wired reflexes 3 being the easy way, or troll with musclue
> augmentation 4 (if the GM allows bioware at startup [not advised])
> and a ranger arms compound bow. Yes STR10 + 4 with a str +4M weapon,
> thats 18M and bows don't go bang! and its against impact armour.
> (and then they dikote the arrows, try 19S!)
</nitpick mode on>
Dikoted arrows get a +1 (or +2, I'm not sure) to power INSTEAD, not
IN ADDITION to damage level increase. I'm pretty sure of this (pretty
sure is, like, 99%. I hope nobody shoves that last percent down my
throat... ;> ), since I've created quite a few bow-using characters.
(No, not trolls with muscle replacement and augmentation! Just your
ordinary shaman or physad)

BTW: Yes, I saw that hidden question in the original letter. So,
beware of Fro, Dvixen and co!


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; FIAWOL
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae
Palatinae
No honey, it's only a computer, PLEASE put down the gun..
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Dwarfs & Stuff : etc etc
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 22:58:53 +0100
William Gallas said on 14:49/ 5 Nov 97...

> Right about astral perception but wrong about thermographic. If someone
> with cybereyes looks at an invisible individual, he sees him as well as if
> he had normal eyes because he has paid essence to get this eyes and so they
> are a part of him (that's why a mage can throw spells with cybereyes). If a
> camera or something like this looks at him, it can see him if he uses
> invisibility but not if he uses improved invisibility. Anyway, you always
> have a chance to notice him because he has to walk and to breath.

Erm... It says in the description of the Invisibility spell that the spell
is ineffective against thermographic vision...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Would it make you feel much better, if it was you against the world?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 6
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dwarfs & Stuff : etc etc
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:08:51 EST
> character] dragon is chuky dragon soup). I wasn't thinking of D wen
> i used this example. Note also a 48D would have happily killed
> everyone in that street unlike the explosion that got Dunk.

I thought that was part of the mystery....the explosion was contained
in a way that can't be explained, which is why magic is such a
suspect...

Don't PotD and Stranger Souls say that?

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 7
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Dwarfs & Stuff : etc etc
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 09:31:33 +0100
>> Right about astral perception but wrong about thermographic. If someone
>> with cybereyes looks at an invisible individual, he sees him as well as if
>> he had normal eyes because he has paid essence to get this eyes and so they
>> are a part of him (that's why a mage can throw spells with cybereyes). If a
>> camera or something like this looks at him, it can see him if he uses
>> invisibility but not if he uses improved invisibility. Anyway, you always
>> have a chance to notice him because he has to walk and to breath.
>Erm... It says in the description of the Invisibility spell that the spell
>is ineffective against thermographic vision...

Oops ! So please forget what I said.

Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "You are who you know"
Message no. 8
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dwarfs & Stuff : etc etc
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 10:22:27 -0500
>>You mean improved invisibility in a spell lock, yes legal, astral
>>perception and thermographic vision see right through.

>Right about astral perception but wrong about thermographic. If
>someone with cybereyes looks at an invisible individual, he sees him
>as well as if he had normal eyes because he has paid essence to get
>this eyes and so they are a part of him

Makes sense to me, but unfortunatly, incorect.
BBB page 156:
Invisibility:
The spellcaster must touch the subject, who becomes invisible to normal
light. Thermographic vision can still detect body heat, and the subject is
completely tangible and detectable... etc.

Double-Domed Mike

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