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Message no. 1
From: HALOWEEN JACK <SBC3KCB@*******.AC.UK>
Subject: dwarves
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 13:46:19 GMT
lets start a discusion about dwarfs mainly because i think they are
the most understanted race in the game only in the germany source
book is there any reference to a dwarfen nation.
and come to think about it how many time has anyone in your group
descided to be a dwarf.
dwarves are very good spell casters the only problem is that due to
the priority system metahuman mages have a raw deal. either with
stats,skills or force.
also i have played a dwarven phys ad and the high body can be of a
great advantage.and so is the strength advantage.

has anyone heard of any dwarven kingdoms or are they just falling
behind like the orks and trolls
Message no. 2
From: "Andrew W. Ragland" <RAGLAN45@*****.MMC.EDU>
Subject: Re: dwarves
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 08:37:26 -0500
> and come to think about it how many time has anyone in your group
>descided to be a dwarf.

Never had a dwarf as a player character. Darn shame, that. I think my
players still have too much Tolkein influence, and when there's an elf in
the group they tend to be really snotty to the dwarves. Also, let's face it,
Shadowrun's dwarves aren't in general terribly social, being grouchy,
cantankerous, ill-humored and generally irascible. Look at the quotes on
the Dwarf Mercenary archetype.

Earthdawn's dwarves are much better adjusted socially, and in a position of
power, but I still can't get anyone to play one. Hmph.

Andrew W. Ragland |GTW @*+(-) s++/+ a c++(++++)| _ Prayer Division|
Product Support Manager |G+ y* L e* W !N o+ K w++$ M+| /\ /\ Ariadne, |
R & M BioMetrics / BioQuant|O+$ V+ +PS- +PE- Y+ PGP @*+ | |-*-| Strengthen |
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The Internet is a Process, not a Thing
Message no. 3
From: Ingmar Krusch <fastjack@******.ET-INF.FHO-EMDEN.DE>
Subject: Re: dwarves
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 15:04:36 +0100
Tue, 17 Oct 1995 HALOWEEN JACK wrote :

<snip>
>
> has anyone heard of any dwarven kingdoms or are they just falling
> behind like the orks and trolls
>

If you consider halvados a dwarven kingdom (mentioned in the german
triologie), there's one !
I think the is also one mentioned in the german sourcebook (but I'm not
sure right now).


Salve

Ingmar
--


*******************************************************************************

If you did it and you're still alive,
you've probably done it right !

-J. K. W., freelancer

*******************************************************************************
Message no. 4
From: Mike Loseke <mike@***.SC.COLOSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: dwarves
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 08:28:02 -0600
Andrew W. Ragland wrote:
>
> > and come to think about it how many time has anyone in your group
> >descided to be a dwarf.

One of my favorite characters was a dwarf rigger named Buck Naked. The funnest
way to play him was as a serious redneck.

> Never had a dwarf as a player character. Darn shame, that. I think my
> players still have too much Tolkein influence, and when there's an elf in
> the group they tend to be really snotty to the dwarves. Also, let's face it,
> Shadowrun's dwarves aren't in general terribly social, being grouchy,
> cantankerous, ill-humored and generally irascible. Look at the quotes on
> the Dwarf Mercenary archetype.

I think that alot of these characteristics make the type *more* fun to play. Face
it, it's just more material to work with. And any time you can make a good scene
better with stuff like this everyone enjoys it.

--
Mike Loseke * Webmaster & |
System Administrator | Nietzsche Pops!
mike@***.sc.colostate.edu | The Uberbreakfast!
http://www.sc.colostate.edu |
Message no. 5
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: dwarves
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 15:34:43 +0100
On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Andrew W. Ragland wrote:

> > and come to think about it how many time has anyone in your group
> >descided to be a dwarf.
>
> Never had a dwarf as a player character. Darn shame, that.
Too true. My main dwarf character is a rigger called the Prime Mover. He
has some serious hardware and can handle himself without it as well (he
knows judo :)

The other dwarf I created (never played) was a snake shaman who was also
really into surveilance electronics and would always love to ferret out
information through either magic or tech.

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
Shadowrun Web Site under construction at
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 6
From: U-Gene <R3STG@***.CC.UAKRON.EDU>
Subject: Re: dwarves
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 11:27:37 EDT
Mike Loseke:
>>[snip Andrew Ragland's comments on dwarven personality traits ]
>I think that a lot of these characteristics make the type *more* fun to play.
>Face
>it, it's just more material to work with. And any time you can make a good
>scene better with stuff like this everyone enjoys it.

I agree. Or just as funny is to play a character that goes radically
opposed to the archtype. Try playing a Dwarven Swashbuckler in your
next campaign!

U-Gene << who has never been a dwarf himself. >>
Message no. 7
From: Dustin McCraw <dmccraw@*****.AIX.CALPOLY.EDU>
Subject: Re: dwarves
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 14:32:33 -0700
In a previous letter, you stated in beatiful words:
>
>Mike Loseke:
>>>[snip Andrew Ragland's comments on dwarven personality traits ]
>>I think that a lot of these characteristics make the type *more* fun to play.
>>Face
>>it, it's just more material to work with. And any time you can make a good
>>scene better with stuff like this everyone enjoys it.
>
>I agree. Or just as funny is to play a character that goes radically
>opposed to the archtype. Try playing a Dwarven Swashbuckler in your
>next campaign!
>
>U-Gene << who has never been a dwarf himself. >>
>
I have played this character. First in __&_ then I made a version of him
for shadowrun. he was an interesting character. Kind of a cross between a
kender and a dwarf. The rest of the party hated him.

dustin


--
???? ????
? ? The key to success is knowledge, ? ?
? now where is that lock....? ?
* Dustin J. McCraw dmccraw@****.calpoly.edu *
Message no. 8
From: Andre' Selmer <031SEA@******.WITS.AC.ZA>
Subject: Re: dwarves
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 08:25:10 +0200
}Andrew W. Ragland wrote:
}>
}> > and come to think about it how many time has anyone in your group
}> >descided to be a dwarf.
}
}One of my favorite characters was a dwarf rigger named Buck Naked. The funnes
}t
}way to play him was as a serious redneck.

I still play my first (actually second) character, and yes he is
a dwarf.

}> Never had a dwarf as a player character. Darn shame, that. I think my
}> players still have too much Tolkein influence, and when there's an elf in
}> the group they tend to be really snotty to the dwarves. Also, let's face it
}> Shadowrun's dwarves aren't in general terribly social, being
grouchy,
}> cantankerous, ill-humored and generally irascible. Look at the quotes on
}> the Dwarf Mercenary archetype.

'Who you calling cantankerous, ill-humoured and generally
irasible.. I tell you chummer I ain't and if you don't like it you
can argue with my fist !' ----Limpit <grin>

}I think that alot of these characteristics make the type *more* fun to play.
}Face
}it, it's just more material to work with. And any time you can make a good sc
}ene
}better with stuff like this everyone enjoys it.

What most people forget is that even though the dwarf is 'a tough
nut to crack' archetype they have feelings etc as well. The most fun
I get from playing my dwarf Limpit is the fact that he has a
few phobias, playing him trying to act the tough dwarf when faced
with vampires (mild phobia) is great fun. Added to that his mage-
hater aspect (esp. invisible ones, got yet another in the last game)
and the fact that I have dragged this character through all the drek
there is (been over deadly 8 times) and despite all he has servived.
Of all the other character type (stereotypical) I don't think that I
could have played who has faced all the drek and come back for more
with a vengence. My musing....

Andre'

+-----------------------------------------------------------+
|It has been said that the they who stay in the shadows have|
|no soul, no depth, no moral conviction. But how can one |
|say this when, it is they who have lost themselves in the |
|search utopia. We are the realists, we work from the |
|unseen corners of society, we do what no another has the |
|strength to do, with our cybered bodies and magic extreme |
|we prevent the corruption from spreading and destroying |
|your dreams, not through power, but bullets, sweat, tears |
|and blood. All of this we do for your sake, and few nuyen. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+

-
|_|_
/ \ \ /~\/~~~~
| | | - \_/ + THUMP...Thump..thump = Boom ?
| | |
\___/
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: dwarves
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 09:45:40 +0100
HALOWEEN JACK said on 17 Oct 95...

> and come to think about it how many time has anyone in your group
> descided to be a dwarf.

Twice, out of 10 or so characters we ever designed. One dwarven shaman
(mainly due to the +1 Willpower, but still...) and the other one was mine:
a bald dwarf with a funky-colored beard (dyed it regularly, every time a
different color; hell, that even earned me a point of Karma for good
role-playing :). Stefan and Martin should recognize this one :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Personality test I failed with the best
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: dwarves
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:34:27 +0100
Dustin McCraw said on 17 Oct 95...

> I have played this character. First in __&_ then I made a version of him
> for shadowrun. he was an interesting character. Kind of a cross between a
> kender and a dwarf. The rest of the party hated him.

I remember wanting to play a gully dwarf, but it didn't happen because the
D/GM's campaign was designed for high-level chars :(

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Personality test I failed with the best
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
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Message no. 11
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: dwarves
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 16:14:03 +0100
Andrew W. Ragland wrote:
>
> > and come to think about it how many time has anyone in your group
> >descided to be a dwarf.
>
> Never had a dwarf as a player character.

I have a player who almost invariably plays dwarves :) Dwarves are not
bad, they are actually pretty cool. I think that the reason dwarves dont
get any attention as a race is the same reason humans dont get any attention
as a race :) Dwarves dont consider themselves any better or worse that
everyone else, so why would they want a dwarven state in the first place ?

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 12
From: The Kumquat <LAYBROWNJT@***.CUIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dwarves
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 11:51:46 -0500
Personally, one of my favorite Characters is Silverthorn, a dwarven Dog Shaman.
Talk about stubborn... You think dwarves are irritable normally? Sometimes a
thought gets into his head and he just leaves the party, disappearing for days
or even weeks at a time, and refuses to tell anyone where he went... Fun
character, though.

Scene: A Great Dragon flies down, Silverthorn has decided to sit his balding
little self down, and the Dragon says "Move, Foolish Mortal!" Not caring that
the Dragon may very well toast him, 'Thorn says,"Listen, Scaly-butt, I don't
care how may villages ya ate this morning, I'm sitting right here, so you can
just walk around me." (slight exaggeration <smirk>)

Just My Two Pence.
The Kumquat.

Support Whirled Peas.
Message no. 13
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Dwarves
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:41:14 -0500
Maybe dwarves are a subplot so far in the future FASA hasn't even started to
forshadow them yet, and maybe they just got included because if you have elves,
you have to have dwarves, but anyway, I'm trying to deceide on the "secrets of
dwarves" before I start my game. Are there immortal dwarves? Only your GM
knows for sure...

Anyway, dwarves are the only metahuman type that could blend in during the fifth
world: dwarfism is an uncommon but well known genetic trait. Perhaps with the
awakening dwarves loose some of the health problems they have in real life (as
some dormant genes reawaken), and they now seem to breed true and are MUCH
more common.

My (somewhat rhetorical) question is this: Are twentieth century dwarves spike
babies or unrelated to the metahuman race? Do normal humans still have
dwarven babies with the same frequency of pre-awakening, or did that suddenly
stop once all the people with a hint of dwarven genes gave birth to full dwarves at
the awakening?

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 14
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Dwarves
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 00:34:16 -0700
Mike Elkins wrote:
> Are there immortal dwarves? Only your GM
> knows for sure...
>

THe Shadow knows!!

> Anyway, dwarves are the only metahuman type that could blend in during the fifth
> world: dwarfism is an uncommon but well known genetic trait. Perhaps with the
> awakening dwarves loose some of the health problems they have in real life (as
> some dormant genes reawaken), and they now seem to breed true and are MUCH
> more common.
>


And on that note..In ED dwarves are more common than standard Humans..So
due to their plentitude and their invasiveness into every nook and cranny
of the world at that time..I would say that it was the age of the
Dwarves..probably just before was the Age of Elves..Previously to them it
was the age of the Orcs and sometime before that the age of
Dragons..Currently the age of the Humans And durning the betwenn times
the major race is able to carry over while the magic is in a negative
balance..And endure..To a lesser extent the less common races [ie elves]
since their time was even farther back..Only the most powerful of a race
reach imortality [however this is achieved] and are able to survive..So I
would say Yes there are imortal Dwarves..

> My (somewhat rhetorical) question is this: Are twentieth century dwarves spike
> babies or unrelated to the metahuman race?


I would say they are natural expressions of what is to be..Once the magic
returns..
--
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer
Message no. 15
From: Mick Rissling mrissling@*******.com
Subject: Dwarves.
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:30:43 PDT
There is a dwarf in my campaign ( a rigger of course). The player also
GM's Earthdawn and I think that that helped his love of Dwarves (they are
the most common race in Barsaive). I have encouraged magician players to
consider Dwarves because of the Willpower advantage. An albino Dwarf (+2
Willpower) shark shaman could be a scary thing indeed. Maybe I will have to
demonstrate this to my players in the form of an NPC. ; )


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 16
From: 00DNA mcmanus@******.albany.edu
Subject: Dwarves.
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:04:25 -0400
At 07:30 AM 7/19/99 -0700, Mick Rissling wrote:
> There is a dwarf in my campaign ( a rigger of course). The player also
>GM's Earthdawn and I think that that helped his love of Dwarves (they are
>the most common race in Barsaive). I have encouraged magician players to
>consider Dwarves because of the Willpower advantage. An albino Dwarf (+2
>Willpower) shark shaman could be a scary thing indeed. Maybe I will have to
>demonstrate this to my players in the form of an NPC. ; )

I've had a dwarf magician in a game as well as a dwarf physical adept
(formally an NPC). But that just makes me cringe...encouraging players to
look at the numbers...eeek. That's not a good thing at all.


--00DNA
"...user connection terminated."
Message no. 17
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: Dwarves.
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:10:06 +0200
--00DNA wrote in his infinite wisdom:
> I've had a dwarf magician in a game as well as a dwarf physical adept
> (formally an NPC). But that just makes me cringe...encouraging players to
> look at the numbers...eeek. That's not a good thing at all.

I think everyone looks at the numbers every once in a while, I won't
encourage it, but I will accept that it happens. As long as the characters
my players are playing are interresting enough to keep. More often than not
a dwarf will end up either a very physical character due to it's higher
strength, or a rigger/decker type due to stereotyping, or a magician due to
munchkinism (+2 willpower). I don't think you'll soon see a dwarf mage with
a starting willpower of 2.

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."
Message no. 18
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: Dwarves.
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:43:04 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Mick Rissling <mrissling@*******.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Monday, July 19, 1999 9:30 AM
Subject: RE: Dwarves.


> There is a dwarf in my campaign ( a rigger of course). The player
also
> GM's Earthdawn and I think that that helped his love of Dwarves (they are
> the most common race in Barsaive). I have encouraged magician players to
> consider Dwarves because of the Willpower advantage. An albino Dwarf (+2
> Willpower) shark shaman could be a scary thing indeed. Maybe I will have
to
> demonstrate this to my players in the form of an NPC. ; )

I once had a (N)PC that was a native american dwarf lion shaman. He tended
to wear his hair and beard bushy to form a mane. Fun character. He was SF
trained (Rangers) and hated bigotry. Overall very down to business, tended
to be kinda quiet. I have also GM'd a dwarf demolitions expert that was
loud, boisterous, and shaved all of his hair off (including eyebrows, etc.)

Mockingbird
Message no. 19
From: Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject: Dwarves.
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:04:15 -0400
>I once had a (N)PC that was a native american dwarf lion shaman. He
tended
>to wear his hair and beard bushy to form a mane. Fun character. He
was SF
>trained (Rangers) and hated bigotry. Overall very down to business,
tended
>to be kinda quiet. I have also GM'd a dwarf demolitions expert that
was
>loud, boisterous, and shaved all of his hair off (including eyebrows,
etc.)
>
>Mockingbird


On the demo expert. Lemme guess the name: Sapper?

*fuzzy memories of Warcraft 2...mmm. Dwarven Griffon Riders....*
Message no. 20
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: Dwarves.
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:24:55 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Angelkiller 404 <angelkiller404@**********.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Monday, July 19, 1999 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: Dwarves.


> >I once had a (N)PC that was a native american dwarf lion shaman. He
> tended
> >to wear his hair and beard bushy to form a mane. Fun character. He
> was SF
> >trained (Rangers) and hated bigotry. Overall very down to business,
> tended
> >to be kinda quiet. I have also GM'd a dwarf demolitions expert that
> was
> >loud, boisterous, and shaved all of his hair off (including eyebrows,
> etc.)
> >
> >Mockingbird
>
>
> On the demo expert. Lemme guess the name: Sapper?
>
> *fuzzy memories of Warcraft 2...mmm. Dwarven Griffon Riders....*
>

Actualy, the characters name was Firecracker. Of course after he decided
to get his head tatooed with a giant flame, ala Bam Bam Bigalo, he was more
often refered to as the Flaming Dwarf (the fact that in the same session he
rolled all ones on a demo roll while trying to hook some explosives to a gas
main didn't help matters).

Mockingbird
Message no. 21
From: Ken Ken@********.com
Subject: Dwarves.
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:10:32 -0400
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shadowrn-admin@*********.org
> [mailto:shadowrn-admin@*********.org]On Behalf Of 00DNA
> Sent: Monday, July 19, 1999 11:04 AM
> To: shadowrn@*********.org
> Subject: RE: Dwarves.
>
>
> At 07:30 AM 7/19/99 -0700, Mick Rissling wrote:
> > There is a dwarf in my campaign ( a rigger of course). The
> player also
> >GM's Earthdawn and I think that that helped his love of Dwarves
> (they are
> >the most common race in Barsaive). I have encouraged magician
> players to
> >consider Dwarves because of the Willpower advantage. An albino
> Dwarf (+2
> >Willpower) shark shaman could be a scary thing indeed. Maybe I
> will have to
> >demonstrate this to my players in the form of an NPC. ; )
>
> I've had a dwarf magician in a game as well as a dwarf physical adept
> (formally an NPC). But that just makes me cringe...encouraging players to
> look at the numbers...eeek. That's not a good thing at all.
>
>
> --00DNA
> "...user connection terminated."
>
>
I remember a dwarf in a campaign once. He was Ex-Lone Star turned Private
Investigator. Almost no chrome installed. I cant remember what his name
was when it started but we all ended up calling him Sam (Sam Spade) He had
this Trench coat (cut for a dwarf of course) and was pretty intense. What
made him memorable was that 1. He was VERY sensitive about his height.
Someone in the group made the comment that it would be easier for him to
look under desks. It got bad from then on.

and

2. He did it all in a Foghorn Leghorn like voice "You, Ah say, you bettah
put that gun down boy"

Ken
Message no. 22
From: Xyron-II markus.meisen@****.uni-muenchen.de
Subject: Dwarves.
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 02:44:12 +0200
Up until now, I was just lurking, but now (having gotten my
Internet Access at home [in contrast to at the University])
I set ShadowRN from digest to normal mail...

Okay, on to the Subject:

I'm playing a dwarf right now. Rulewise, he's a shamanic
sorcerer, but the totem should have you think twice:
The Force (yeah right)
He calls himself "Ben" and specializes more in mental
manipulation spells and such...

I've only played him for one session now, but he seems
a lot of fun to me...

And well, yes, he has already been called "shorty" or some
such, but being levitated a few meters straight up teaches
most people a bit of respect in magic-users (or Jedi, as
in this case...)


Allright seeya all,
--
/> Xyron II
/< (not the first, for whatever reason)
O[\\\\\\(O):::<==========================================-
\< "You always find something the last
\> place you look."

Further Reading

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