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Message no. 1
From: Roger Ramirez chariot@*********.net
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:04:14 -0400
I was just pondering the idea of Dwarves in Shadowrun. I haven't read many
of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen one dwarf
character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.

Other than this I have not really seen any characters in any sourcebooks
that have been dwarves. In fact I haven't even heard of any players that
wanted to play Dwarves.

I'm curious to find out if anyone out there plays a dwarf or runs a game
with a dwarf PC. If so, what is the character like. Just a short
description would be nice.

Chariot
Message no. 2
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:27:51 +1000
> I was just pondering the idea of Dwarves in Shadowrun. I haven't read many
> of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen one dwarf
> character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.
>
> Other than this I have not really seen any characters in any sourcebooks
> that have been dwarves. In fact I haven't even heard of any players that
> wanted to play Dwarves.
>
> I'm curious to find out if anyone out there plays a dwarf or runs a game
> with a dwarf PC. If so, what is the character like. Just a short
> description would be nice.

I play a dwarf rigger (yes - sounds typical - but wait...)

I cant say everything about the character because there are other players out
there who shouldnt know some of the stuff.

He is a beginning character so whatever I say - take it with a grain of salt
since the skills and stats will reflect the beginner level of the character.

He is a dwarf rigger, formerly from downtown seattle who now lives in Tacoma.
He has his own car and a few drones he has modified to suit. He has some
previous tactical respose training (cant say if its military or otherwise) and
he is quite well cybered (fast, strong, quick, smart).

he is compulsively tidy and atttempts to stay well groomed in general. He isnt
ever without some form of defensive weapon although he is out of his league
when facing magic. His mother is his only family still alive and is in a
nursing home run by (name removed) for (reason removed).

he is illergic to (name removed) but only mildly. This is combined with a
phobia related to the allergy to make a slight twist.

He of course has a VCR.

I dont really know what to say other than he is a well rounded character with
about 10 pages of storyline behind him (aned this is a beginning character mind
you). He isnt just a driver, but also isnt a combat freak. He is capable both
in a car, a gunfight, the matrix (computer skill is nice for this - he doesnt
have a cyberdeck however - and comp skill is useful for rigger too...) but not
so much outside the car as to bother anyone else. He would be ripper apart by a
real sam, and nuked by a real decker, but in a car or using drones (or in a
rigged secutiry system) you cant beat him - or so he thinks anyway :).

Good enough for you Chariot?

Greywolf
Message no. 3
From: leisnj48@****.cis.uwosh.edu leisnj48@****.cis.uwosh.edu
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:03:22 -0600 (CST)
On Sun, 18 Jul 1999, Roger Ramirez wrote:

> I was just pondering the idea of Dwarves in Shadowrun. I haven't read many
> of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen one dwarf
> character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.

There have been a couple others, all riggers save one.

> I'm curious to find out if anyone out there plays a dwarf or runs a game
> with a dwarf PC. If so, what is the character like. Just a short
> description would be nice.

I don't play Shadowrun on the Tabletop, but I play one on Shadowrun MUX
(Seattle). He's a rigger/mechanic. He's quiet, keeps to himself, doesn't
trust easily, and is basically the actions-speak-louder-than-words deal.

He isn't emotionally dead and doesn't take killing lightly, but does
what's necessary.

That what you wanted to know?


-Jared Leisner
Message no. 4
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:47:59 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Roger Ramirez."
] I was just pondering the idea of Dwarves in Shadowrun. I haven't read many
] of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen one dwarf
] character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.

Isn't there a dwarf main character in some other book (Shadowboxer
springs to mind, but that is likely very, very wrong).

] Other than this I have not really seen any characters in any sourcebooks
] that have been dwarves. In fact I haven't even heard of any players that
] wanted to play Dwarves.

I want to! Someone start a game near me!

] I'm curious to find out if anyone out there plays a dwarf or runs a game
] with a dwarf PC. If so, what is the character like. Just a short
] description would be nice.

Well, I've got one dwarf character that I played a couple times, and
have now put into a story (in progress). He's cybered, and favours a
compound bow. Another character in the same story is a koborokuru with
a little cyber, who doesn't realize he's an Adept. In fact, now that I
think about it, there's another dwarf in that story too...a street
samurai. So yeah, I like dwarves. I'd say the only race I have very
little interest in is elves.
As for their personalities...well, they're no different from any
other human. If you want descriptions, mail me privately, 'cause the
list probably doesn't care :)

-Murder of One
Message no. 5
From: Michael & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@*****.msn.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:54:10 -0400
Chariot Asked:
>I'm curious to find out if anyone out there plays a dwarf or runs a game
>with a dwarf PC. If so, what is the character like. Just a short
>description would be nice.


I currently have a player in my campaign who is playing a Dwarven street
samurai. The character name is Ghost and he is a kick you in the nuts kinda
guy. Tends to be along the stereotypical grumpy lines with some rough humor.

I also thought one of the street samurai in the Dragonheart Saga was a dwarf
(you know, the guy with the 3rd arm).

;)

Smilin' Jack
Message no. 6
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:29:14 -0700
One of the PC's in my game is an illegal immigrant from Afghanistan.
He's an Islamic elementalist mage who fell on the wrong side of a religious
dispute. He's also a dwarf.


Arcady http://www.jps.net/arcady/ <0){{{{><
The Revolution will not be televised; it'll be emailed.
/.)\ Stop making sense. Be an Anti Intellectual
\(@/ Be Tao. Live Tao. Feel Tao. But don't do Tao.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: shadowrn-admin@*********.org
> [mailto:shadowrn-admin@*********.org]On Behalf Of Roger Ramirez
> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 1999 7:04 PM
> To: Shadowrun Mailing List
> Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
>
>
> I was just pondering the idea of Dwarves in Shadowrun. I haven't
> read many
> of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen one dwarf
> character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.
>
> Other than this I have not really seen any characters in any sourcebooks
> that have been dwarves. In fact I haven't even heard of any players that
> wanted to play Dwarves.
>
> I'm curious to find out if anyone out there plays a dwarf or runs a game
> with a dwarf PC. If so, what is the character like. Just a short
> description would be nice.
>
> Chariot
>
>
Message no. 7
From: Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 03:23:41 -0400
> Well, I've got one dwarf character that I played a couple times,
and
>have now put into a story (in progress). He's cybered, and favours a
>compound bow. Another character in the same story is a koborokuru
with
>a little cyber, who doesn't realize he's an Adept. In fact, now that
I
>think about it, there's another dwarf in that story too...a street
>samurai. So yeah, I like dwarves. I'd say the only race I have very
>little interest in is elves.


Strange, I love dwarves, but I personally have very little interest in
orcs. Why is it that the most popular metahumans are elves and
trolls, anyway?

-----
AK404

http://mindspring.com/~angelkiller404/
http://gibbed.com/parasiteve/
ICQ: 2157053

"There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that
cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just
comes in to work every day and has a job to do."
Message no. 8
From: Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:51:34 +1000
At 03:23 19/07/99 -0400 Angelkiller 404 wrote
>Strange, I love dwarves, but I personally have very little interest in
>orcs. Why is it that the most popular metahumans are elves and
>trolls, anyway?
>-----
>AK404
>

I think that you'll find that Elves & Trolls are the most
popular metatype because they are the ones that
tend to attract munchkins for the in-game benefits
that you can milk from them. I'm not for a minute
suggesting that ALL people who play Trolls and
Elves are munchkins but I can surely say that I
can guarentee that all munchkins have at some
point played a maxed out troll. Thankfully SR3
has made this a little more expensive in the
priority based character generation system.

Personally I tend to avoid the MetaHuman races
as a PC. I prefer to play humans.

__________________________________
Manx // timburke@*******.com.au // #950
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt
and then it's just hilarious." - Faith No More
__________________________________
Message no. 9
From: Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:56:34 +1000
At 22:04 18/07/99 -0400 Roger Ramirez wrote
>I'm curious to find out if anyone out there plays a dwarf or runs a game
>with a dwarf PC. If so, what is the character like. Just a short
>description would be nice.
>
>Chariot
>

My friend Gord plays a Dwarf Decker from the CAS
called Jim-Bob Mackowski. He's got a bit of cyber
(wired 1, cybereyes, datajack etc) and has a military
background.

He's a pretty cool character and one that always
backs up Manx, (my cat shaman). I think that I'd
trust him with anything, unlike the other members
of my group one of whom is an asshole street sam
and the other is (I think) an undercover FBI agent
who's getting a powerbolt as soon as I can proove
it.
__________________________________
Manx // timburke@*******.com.au // #950
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt
and then it's just hilarious." - Faith No More
__________________________________
Message no. 10
From: Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 04:11:14 -0400
>>Strange, I love dwarves, but I personally have very little interest
in
>>orcs. Why is it that the most popular metahumans are elves and
>>trolls, anyway?
>>-----
>>AK404
>>
>
>I think that you'll find that Elves & Trolls are the most
>popular metatype because they are the ones that
>tend to attract munchkins for the in-game benefits
>that you can milk from them. I'm not for a minute
>suggesting that ALL people who play Trolls and
>Elves are munchkins but I can surely say that I
>can guarentee that all munchkins have at some
>point played a maxed out troll. Thankfully SR3
>has made this a little more expensive in the
>priority based character generation system.
>
>Personally I tend to avoid the MetaHuman races
>as a PC. I prefer to play humans.
>
>__________________________________
>Manx // timburke@*******.com.au // #950


I don't know about that...with their higher Body, Strength, and
Willpower Ratings and the lowered Race priority, I almost expected
Dwarves to be the new munchkin race. I mean, I had a dwarf street sam
that was just horrific in any type of combat (mostly because it's
kinda hard to take someone with a street name of "Sleepy" seriously),
but on paper, dwarves seem a bit better than elves to me. In society,
everyone keeps an eye on the elf, everyone grabs their pistol grips
when the troll or orc comes close, and humans just elicit the regular
dose of paranoia, but how many players can seriously say that they
takes dwarves seriously?

-----
AK404

http://mindspring.com/~angelkiller404/
http://gibbed.com/parasiteve/
ICQ: 2157053

"There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that
cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just
comes in to work every day and has a job to do."
Message no. 11
From: Bull bull@*******.net
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 04:55:27 -0400 (EDT)
At 10:04 PM 7/18/99 -0400, Roger Ramirez wrote these timeless words:
>I was just pondering the idea of Dwarves in Shadowrun. I haven't read many
>of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen one dwarf
>character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.
>
There have been a few others, but they're fairly rare...

>Other than this I have not really seen any characters in any sourcebooks
>that have been dwarves. In fact I haven't even heard of any players that
>wanted to play Dwarves.
>
I have played one (See below). But the fact is that they're the worst of
the lot, especially compared to Trolls and Elves as far as stats go. Plus,
Dwarves just never seem that popular...

>I'm curious to find out if anyone out there plays a dwarf or runs a game
>with a dwarf PC. If so, what is the character like. Just a short
>description would be nice.
>
Well, I played a Dwarven Bodyguard named Shortround Oddjob (Ok, chessy bad
name... But it was a night for cheesy bad names). He was a former Secret
Service agent that had been assigned to Dunklezahn, and quit in shame after
Dunky died. He later got recruited by the Draco foundation for reasons he
never found out to basically do something similar to what Assets Inc does
now (according to Crossroads, Kenson's book, which is pretty good,
actually), namely hunt down items from the will and fulfill them. He had
lots of Delta Grade headware (phone, eye and ear mods, recorder, etc) and
some minor body/speed boosts.

Bull -- An Ork at heart, but with a soft spot for Dwarves...
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
bull@*******.net ===== bull22@***********.com
http://shadowrun.html.com/users/bull
ICQ: 35931890
====================================================== =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? = =
======================================================
"Animals have 2 jobs: To taste good and to fit well."
-- Greg Proops, "Vs."
Message no. 12
From: Bull bull@*******.net
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 04:55:29 -0400 (EDT)
At 03:23 AM 7/19/99 -0400, Angelkiller 404 wrote these timeless words:
>
>Strange, I love dwarves, but I personally have very little interest in
>orcs. Why is it that the most popular metahumans are elves and
>trolls, anyway?
>
Overall... Trolls are big and bad, and Elves are "romantic", for lack of a
better term. Stat wise, they have the best pound for pound bonuses. Which
is one reason the new Priorities for them ended up the way they did.

Bull -- Who loves Elves, cooked medium rare with a bit of ketchup and salt :]
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
bull@*******.net ===== bull22@***********.com
http://shadowrun.html.com/users/bull
ICQ: 35931890
====================================================== =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? = =
======================================================
"Animals have 2 jobs: To taste good and to fit well."
-- Greg Proops, "Vs."
Message no. 13
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 04:59:52 -0500
:>I think that you'll find that Elves & Trolls are the most
:>popular metatype because they are the ones that
:>tend to attract munchkins for the in-game benefits
:>that you can milk from them.

Yeah, my elf samurai and troll mage both kicked some ass. I mean,
trolls are just MADE to be mages, and elves can really soak up damage...

:I don't know about that...with their higher Body, Strength, and
:Willpower Ratings and the lowered Race priority, I almost expected
:Dwarves to be the new munchkin race.

I don't know about "munchkin", but they are more popular, I think. Our
(admitedly odd) new group has 2 dwarves (a samurai / negotiator and a
rigger), 2 elves (an adept and a samuria), 2 humans (an adept and a
technician / decker) and 1 orc (a wu-jen mage). I don't know what the dwarf
players motives were, but the characters do have good stats.
Very few people used to play dwarves in our Sr2 games- running slow and
having mediocore stats was just to many strikes, I guess. In our new group,
nobody wanted to play a troll- I'm sure personal taste played a big roll
(they have never been popular PC's in our games), but I think the points did
also.

Mongoose
Message no. 14
From: kawaii kawaii@********.org
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 06:51:03 -0400 (EDT)
On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Sebastian Wiers wrote:

>
>
> :>I think that you'll find that Elves & Trolls are the most
> :>popular metatype because they are the ones that
> :>tend to attract munchkins for the in-game benefits
> :>that you can milk from them.
>
> Yeah, my elf samurai and troll mage both kicked some ass. I mean,
> trolls are just MADE to be mages, and elves can really soak up damage...
>
> :I don't know about that...with their higher Body, Strength, and
> :Willpower Ratings and the lowered Race priority, I almost expected
> :Dwarves to be the new munchkin race.
>
> I don't know about "munchkin", but they are more popular, I think. Our
> (admitedly odd) new group has 2 dwarves (a samurai / negotiator and a
> rigger), 2 elves (an adept and a samuria), 2 humans (an adept and a
> technician / decker) and 1 orc (a wu-jen mage). I don't know what the dwarf
> players motives were, but the characters do have good stats.

Wow, that's a pretty big team you've got there. I rarely play with more
than 5 PCs, usually 3.

> Very few people used to play dwarves in our Sr2 games- running slow and
> having mediocore stats was just to many strikes, I guess. In our new group,
> nobody wanted to play a troll- I'm sure personal taste played a big roll
> (they have never been popular PC's in our games), but I think the points did
> also.
>

I've heard both sides of the story, about how in SR3, trolls rock as mages
(since all races have full willpower now) and how everyone plays elves so
they can be pretty, long lived, and no negatives.

Despite all that, I still prefer humans. =) Nothing quite like being the
dominant race on the planet to even that all out, esp with the normal
karma pool advancement instead of the meta-pool advancement. =) Also, I
think metas are genetic throwbacks. =P

> Mongoose
>
>
>

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 15
From: Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:37:57 +1000
At 04:55 19/07/99 -0400 Bull wrote
>At 10:04 PM 7/18/99 -0400, Roger Ramirez wrote these timeless words:
>>I was just pondering the idea of Dwarves in Shadowrun. I haven't read many
>>of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen one dwarf
>>character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.
>>
>There have been a few others, but they're fairly rare...

Which is I suppose a good indication why Dwarves
are as rare as they are in the population statistics.
Generally they comprise approximately 2% of the
population of Seattle. It only makes sense statistically
that Dwarves are rarer than Elves (at 13%) and
Orks (at 16%). It is also interesting to note that
Trolls clock in at 2% as well. Really there should
be a whole lot less Trolls running around.

__________________________________
Manx // timburke@*******.com.au // #950
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt
and then it's just hilarious." - Faith No More
__________________________________
Message no. 16
From: DV8 gyro@********.co.za
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:09:10 +0200
-----Original Message-----
From: Manx <timburke@*******.com.au>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: 19 July 1999 03:53
Subject: Re: Dwarves in Shadowrun


>At 04:55 19/07/99 -0400 Bull wrote
>>At 10:04 PM 7/18/99 -0400, Roger Ramirez wrote these timeless words:
>>>I was just pondering the idea of Dwarves in Shadowrun. I haven't
read many
>>>of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen
one dwarf
>>>character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.
>>>
>>There have been a few others, but they're fairly rare...
>
>Which is I suppose a good indication why Dwarves
>are as rare as they are in the population statistics.
>Generally they comprise approximately 2% of the
>population of Seattle. It only makes sense statistically
>that Dwarves are rarer than Elves (at 13%) and
>Orks (at 16%). It is also interesting to note that
>Trolls clock in at 2% as well. Really there should
>be a whole lot less Trolls running around.
>
Disagree. Trolls in SR are portrayed as being poor, due to the
increased cost
of everything they buy. Lunch is an entire KFC bucket for example.

Thus you'll find them taking any break to get out of the rut that is
their birthright.

Thus lotsa Troll shadowrunners....

YMMV

- - BRUCE <gyro@********.co.za>

<hard@****>
Message no. 17
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:04:10 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Angelkiller 404."
] In society,
] everyone keeps an eye on the elf, everyone grabs their pistol grips
] when the troll or orc comes close, and humans just elicit the regular
] dose of paranoia, but how many players can seriously say that they
] takes dwarves seriously?

Well, I dunno...I take a race that has increased Strength and punches
at groin level pretty darn seriously :)

-Murder of One
Message no. 18
From: Number Ten Ox number_10_ox@**********.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:33:44 -0700 (PDT)
---Roger Ramirez <chariot@*********.net> wrote:
> I haven't read many
> of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen one dwarf
> character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.

There's a dwarf rigger in the 2nd book of the Charrette trilogy, IIRC.
Also, a Dwarf bounty hunter named Greerson shows up a few times.

> I'm curious to find out if anyone out there plays a dwarf or runs a game
> with a dwarf PC. If so, what is the character like. Just a short
> description would be nice.

Yeah, I run a game where the team leader is a Dwarven decker named
Logos. He's a decker/street sam combo (Shotguns 8 -- hey, don't look at me
that way, the characters are at 200 total Karma right now) with the
Distinctive Style flaw, with the result that the team (PICS: Poseurs Inc.
Creative Solutions) has a file in Lone Star an inch thick. THey just
haven't been caught red-handed yet. He's also Jewish, a conspiracy freak,
and a history buff. :)

Who says Dwarves are boring?



> Chariot
>
>



==--Number 10 Ox.
"It's a big yellow rubber ducky."
"Is it rigger-driven?"
_________________________________________________________
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Message no. 19
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:23:53 CST
>From: "Roger Ramirez" <chariot@*********.net>
>I was just pondering the idea of Dwarves in Shadowrun. I haven't read many
>of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen one dwarf
>character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.
>

There have been others (Wheeler in Odom's Jack Skater novels), but they are
usually relegated to the role of rigger. sigh.

>Other than this I have not really seen any characters in any sourcebooks
>that have been dwarves. In fact I haven't even heard of any players that
>wanted to play Dwarves.
>

I always found that odd, because I love to play dwarves. I find it
interseting how someone so short has to deal with all the beanpoles.

>I'm curious to find out if anyone out there plays a dwarf or runs a game
>with a dwarf PC. If so, what is the character like. Just a short
>description would be nice.

I play a Dwarf Merc in SR3. He's basically a dwarf with many of the same
skills as the SR2 Mercenary archtype had.

>
>Chariot
>


Geoff Haacke
"If you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."


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Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 20
From: leisnj48@****.cis.uwosh.edu leisnj48@****.cis.uwosh.edu
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:36:23 -0600 (CST)
On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Manx wrote:

> Which is I suppose a good indication why Dwarves
> are as rare as they are in the population statistics.
> Generally they comprise approximately 2% of the
> population of Seattle. It only makes sense statistically
> that Dwarves are rarer than Elves (at 13%) and
> Orks (at 16%). It is also interesting to note that
> Trolls clock in at 2% as well. Really there should
> be a whole lot less Trolls running around.

The difference is that dwarves are more accepted in
the social circles than Trolls are. When metahumans
first popped up, Elves were embraced, and dwarves
were embraced as well, just not as enthusiastically.

Dwarves would also get respectable jobs working for
corps because of their technical stereotype (there's
another novel dwarf: the Fuchi guy in _Dead Air_).

So, there might be the same amount of dwarves and
trolls (on record, remember the Underground), but
Trolls appear more because they'd run the shadows
more often than dwarves would.


-Jared Leisner
Message no. 21
From: arcady@***.net arcady@***.net
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 99 09:44:13 +700
>Strange, I love dwarves, but I personally have very little interest in
>orcs. Why is it that the most popular metahumans are elves and
>trolls, anyway?

Because they "Seem" to be the most powerful. One is the perfect type for a mage,
the other the perfect type for a 'muscle-sam'.

They have high 'cool' factors because of this.

That's not why all players go for them. But above and beyond the players that
go for them for good reasons are the crowd of 'numbers runners' who go for them
for the 'cool' and the 'power' they seem to have.
Message no. 22
From: Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 02:46:44 +1000
At 11:36 19/07/99 -0600 leisnj48@****.cis.uwosh.edu wrote
>The difference is that dwarves are more accepted in
>the social circles than Trolls are. When metahumans
>first popped up, Elves were embraced, and dwarves
>were embraced as well, just not as enthusiastically.

There is also the redeeming fact that your next door
neighbour didn't suddenly transform into a Dwarf
overnight. I think that the fact that Dwarves were born
and did not goblinise goes a long way to their acceptance
in mainstream society.

__________________________________
Manx // timburke@*******.com.au // #950
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt
and then it's just hilarious." - Faith No More
__________________________________
Message no. 23
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:52:42 CST
>From: "Angelkiller 404" <angelkiller404@**********.com>
>Strange, I love dwarves, but I personally have very little interest in
>orcs. Why is it that the most popular metahumans are elves and
>trolls, anyway?
>

Good question. IMO, trolls allow you to do a LOT of Damage and elves are
just purty. :)

Myself, I find elves unintersting as a group.

>-----
>AK404


Geoff Haacke
"If you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 24
From: lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:00:34 -0700
>I'm curious to find out if anyone out there plays a dwarf or runs a game
>with a dwarf PC. If so, what is the character like. Just a short
>description would be nice.

I had a runner in my game who played one half of the Neon Brothers. They
were and elf and a dwarf who were related (cousins actually). They were
both Samurai. The dwarf was into neon face paint and clothing unless he
needed to be a little more "toned" down. He also had a mohawk was into
punk music and was generally a real party type. If someone would try and
stereotype em he's usually flip em off. He was one of the most inventive
characters i had seen at the time. Reason? Because he played the
character how he saw him not according to the sterotype.
We also had some funny moments (imagine a dwarf and elf walk upto you, the
dwarf has a neon green mohawk as is dressed in modern day-glo clothing, the
elf is simialr but no mohawk. )

--Lomion
Message no. 25
From: lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:05:04 -0700
At 04:59 AM 7/19/99 -0500, you wrote:


>:>I think that you'll find that Elves & Trolls are the most
>:>popular metatype because they are the ones that
>:>tend to attract munchkins for the in-game benefits
>:>that you can milk from them.

That and part of it is the literature. I've loved elves from J.R.R Tolkein
and i think alot of ppl do to. Plus in game terms, elves have some of the
best social advantages. I've played elves, humans and orks mostly for
various reasons, mostly depending on what i was going to play.

--Lomion
Message no. 26
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:34:59 +0200
According to arcady@***.net, at 9:44 on 19 Jul 99, the word on
the street was...

> >Strange, I love dwarves, but I personally have very little interest in
> >orcs. Why is it that the most popular metahumans are elves and
> >trolls, anyway?
>
> Because they "Seem" to be the most powerful. One is the perfect type for a
mage,
> the other the perfect type for a 'muscle-sam'.

Most number-crunchers wanting to play a spellcasting magician would not
think twice about taking a dwarf, IMHO. That +1 Willpower is very useful.
For conjurers, though, elves are the way to go if you want a powerful
character.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Cooking with the devil, frying down in hell.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 27
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:34:59 +0200
According to Manx, at 23:37 on 19 Jul 99, the word on
the street was...

> Which is I suppose a good indication why Dwarves are as rare as they are
> in the population statistics. Generally they comprise approximately 2%
> of the population of Seattle. It only makes sense statistically that
> Dwarves are rarer than Elves (at 13%) and Orks (at 16%). It is also
> interesting to note that Trolls clock in at 2% as well. Really there
> should be a whole lot less Trolls running around.

They are average figures, so if a shadowrunner party has more than its
share of trolls (more than one, I'd say), the GM could compensate by
reducing the number of troll NPCs encountered.

But it also depends on the area. Seattle may have only 2% trolls in its
population, but that's still 150,000 individuals. I doubt they live neatly
spaced across the entire metroplex -- so there would be neighborhoods with
plenty more trolls than in others.

Of course, what's really at work here is the coolness factor that most
RPGs have to some degree or other. One of my players once told a story
about a MERP group he used to play in, where at one point five out of the
six party members were Noldor, and the other one was Sindar...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Cooking with the devil, frying down in hell.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 28
From: Aewyn labsyn@*********.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:43:33 -0500
At 10:33 -0500 19/07/1999, Number Ten Ox wrote:
>---Roger Ramirez <chariot@*********.net> wrote:
>> I haven't read many
>> of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen one dwarf
>> character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.
>

Wasn't there a dwarf mercenary in Nosferatu?

Farewell,
Aewyn.
"Reality's unreal".


Got ICQ? My # is:15221611
Message no. 29
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:13:21 EDT
In a message dated 7/19/99 6:41:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
timburke@*******.com.au writes:

> Which is I suppose a good indication why Dwarves
> are as rare as they are in the population statistics.
> Generally they comprise approximately 2% of the
> population of Seattle. It only makes sense statistically
> that Dwarves are rarer than Elves (at 13%) and
> Orks (at 16%). It is also interesting to note that
> Trolls clock in at 2% as well. Really there should
> be a whole lot less Trolls running around.

This would only be true if the Shadow population had the same statistical
makeup as the rest of the population. I don't think it is. As posted by
other people, I agree that Orcs and trolls both should have a higher
presence in the shadows due to the cultural bias against them. Indeed, most
trolls that have jobs outside of the shadows can best hope for jobs like a
Stevedore or bouncer, even if they are the einstien of Trolls. (int 4)

You could expand this psudo-scientific outlook to cover the rest of the races
as well... Elves seem to be Adrenaline junkies... YOu almost never see an Elf
Suit outside of the Tir, and most wouldnt want to BE a corp exec anyway. So,
a larger percentage of them wind up in the shadows looking for thier
adrenaline fix.

Dwarves would actually tend not to be in the shaodws... based on PC's sceen
or heard of , Dwarf charecters tend to be Mages or technical types. Both are
very good in what they do, and so are quite capable of mainaining a lifestyle
outside of the shadows.

The one blip I can see in this are Orcs. Bluntly, I would expect to see more
of them in the shadows than I have seen in PC's, as the tend to suffer the
same disadvantages as Trolls. Heck, there should actually be more of them in
the shadows than trolls, because not only do they have the same bad
reputation as Trolls, and sufffer the same economic discrimination, most of
the jobs they would be directed to they would loos out to trolls, causing an
even higher number of Orcs in the shadows because its the only way they could
scratch out a living. Thier to non human to get a job at the local burger
fling, and the Trolls have a lock on the heavy grunt work... whats an Ork
teen to do?
Message no. 30
From: Bull bull@*******.net
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:42:47 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:37 PM 7/19/99 +1000, Manx wrote these timeless words:
>At 04:55 19/07/99 -0400 Bull wrote
>>At 10:04 PM 7/18/99 -0400, Roger Ramirez wrote these timeless words:
>>>I was just pondering the idea of Dwarves in Shadowrun. I haven't read many
>>>of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen one dwarf
>>>character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.
>>>
>>There have been a few others, but they're fairly rare...
>
>Which is I suppose a good indication why Dwarves
>are as rare as they are in the population statistics.
>Generally they comprise approximately 2% of the
>population of Seattle. It only makes sense statistically
>that Dwarves are rarer than Elves (at 13%) and
>Orks (at 16%). It is also interesting to note that
>Trolls clock in at 2% as well. Really there should
>be a whole lot less Trolls running around.
>
This is something that's come up a lot, and here's my theory (This covers
the "commonality" of mages in Shadowrun as well, despite their supposed
rarity).

First off, the Percentages given in books are usually "Legal, Counted"
statistics. This doesn;t ofetn include the sinless, and TRolls are the
most likely Metatype to be sinless, for various reasons.

But discounting that... Trolls are big, scary, and often dumb and ugly as
a brick. Most trolls end up in one of three places: Gangs, Corps (working
security), or as Shadowrunners. The same applies to mages, though for a
slightly different reason. They're biggest oppurtunities for money are as
a Corp Wagemage or as a Runner. So as Shadowrunners, you see a lot more of
these two types of character than you would in a "regular" job.

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
bull@*******.net ===== bull22@***********.com
http://shadowrun.html.com/users/bull
ICQ: 35931890
====================================================== =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? = =
======================================================
"Animals have 2 jobs: To taste good and to fit well."
-- Greg Proops, "Vs."
Message no. 31
From: Bull bull@*******.net
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:42:50 -0400 (EDT)
At 10:23 AM 7/19/99 CST, Geoffrey Haacke wrote these timeless words:
>>From: "Roger Ramirez" <chariot@*********.net>
>>I was just pondering the idea of Dwarves in Shadowrun. I haven't read many
>>of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen one dwarf
>>character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.
>>
>
>There have been others (Wheeler in Odom's Jack Skater novels), but they are
>usually relegated to the role of rigger. sigh.
>
Actually, Wheeler was the rigger from Preying for Keeps :] He was also a
damned good Rigger Prime Runner for the Shadowrun Card Game :]

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
bull@*******.net ===== bull22@***********.com
http://shadowrun.html.com/users/bull
ICQ: 35931890
====================================================== =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? = =
======================================================
"Animals have 2 jobs: To taste good and to fit well."
-- Greg Proops, "Vs."
Message no. 32
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:49:03 EDT
In a message dated 7/19/99 4:42:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bull@*******.net
writes:

> At 10:23 AM 7/19/99 CST, Geoffrey Haacke wrote these timeless words:
> >>From: "Roger Ramirez" <chariot@*********.net>
> >>I was just pondering the idea of Dwarves in Shadowrun. I haven't read
> many
> >>of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen one
dwarf
> >>character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.
> >>
> >
> >There have been others (Wheeler in Odom's Jack Skater novels), but they
are
>
> >usually relegated to the role of rigger. sigh.
> >
> Actually, Wheeler was the rigger from Preying for Keeps :] He was also a
> damned good Rigger Prime Runner for the Shadowrun Card Game :]
>
> Bull
> --


There was also the dwarf in the disastrous novel where he actually was said
to have GOBLINIZED into a dwarf. I think it was Shadowboxer. The dwarf goes
through this long thought process grieving over his life after goblinizing
into a dwarf.





-Twist
"Soylent Green is people."
Message no. 33
From: Smilin' Assassin SmilinAssassin@********.demon.co.uk
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:54:08 +0100
<Snip>

> I'm curious to find out if anyone out there plays a dwarf or runs a game
> with a dwarf PC. If so, what is the character like. Just a short
> description would be nice.
>
> Chariot
>

Was that last sentence a DELIBERATE one? Huh? HUH??

Smilin' Assassin

-------------------------------------------

Smilin's Diets:

This week I have been mostly eatin' Amber Gel.
Message no. 34
From: arcady@***.net arcady@***.net
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 99 15:54:46 +700
>This is something that's come up a lot, and here's my theory (This covers
>the "commonality" of mages in Shadowrun as well, despite their supposed
>rarity).
>
>First off, the Percentages given in books are usually "Legal, Counted"

There's another reason that get's skipped a lot.

Birds of a feather...

If you're in the occult; you're going to network with others in the field. Mages
will know mages. They'll tend to group together. And if you take on one you
should expect to hear from her mystical collegues sooner or later.

Trolls likewise. They'd live in communities just as people do today. When you
add in species it gets even more vital. Can a troll and an elf interbreed? If
not they both have that as an additional reason to live in areas where there
are other's of their kind. But even if they can people live next to people they
can relate to. That's the whole concept of neighborhoods. Today we have race
and ethnicity to section us up. In SR's 2060 we also have species.
So if one troll goes into the Shdaows and finds opportunity you can bet his
troll buddies will hear of it.

For the people mentioning career options for Trolls and Orcs... It's more than
likely much the same as for minorities in the USA today. There's discrimination,
but a few will get ahead and a solid generalization will quite often break down.
The best modern parallels are blacks and native americans. One faces severe
discrimination and is 'feared' by normal people when spotted on a street (think
about it, it's 10pm on a dark street and a set of three young black males is
hanging out on the corner and wearing hip hop clothes. Most non black americans
will cross the street to avoid them...).

The other lives in severely depressed communities. Often lacking even electricity,
phones, and plumbing. They have no opportunities. Poor schools, broken families
and easy availability of alcohol runs most of their youth into the ground. But
a few do pull up and out. (And before someone runs off the handle about Indian
gaming realize that that is a small minority of the native population. It's
like saying that all Italians benifit from mob money. Which is absurd.)

I'd say a Troll and an Orc have about the same chances of making it in proper
society as those two groups do today. It happens; but in many communities it
is the exception. However even the succesful member will always be at least
in part an outcast.
So with that the 'discrimination' they face is probably both worse and less
severe than people think; depending on circumstance and a variety of factors
that are not easily clarified.
Arcady WebRPG Magistrate http://townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
Artwork: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ The revolution will not be telivised. It'll be emailed.
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 35
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:58:55 -0500
:Good question. IMO, trolls allow you to do a LOT of Damage and elves are
:just purty. :)
:
:Myself, I find elves unintersting as a group.


Trolls do not excel at doing damage. Almost any race can be strong
enough to carry a big gun.
Elves have the highest quickness (and no penalties), and thus are likely
to have better skill with a that gun and a better combat pool. Hence, elves
do more damage than trolls, who have the lowest quickness and combat pool of
any race.
Dwarves would come in second- no quickness (or intelligence, for gunnery
/ launch weapons) penalty, and better than average combat pool. Humans
next, and orcs just above trolls (but still with an average 1 more die in
their combat pool).
An elf may be pretty, but an elf with a BFG is pretty and deadly. But
hey, maybe I have a bias towards elf samurai...

Mongoose
Message no. 36
From: Da Twink Daddy datwinkdaddy@*********.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 22:12:37 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Ramirez <chariot@*********.net>


> I was just pondering the idea of Dwarves in Shadowrun. I haven't
read many
> of the novels but from the few that I have read I have only seen one
dwarf
> character. It was the rigger in Preying for Keeps.

Actually, I don't read _any_ SR Novels. I don't want to spend the
money, because I just don't read that much, also the most I wnat 'big
events' fleshed out is the shadowtalk in the sourcebooks. [That's all
I'm going to post even slightly connected to the Novels thread.]

> Other than this I have not really seen any characters in any
sourcebooks
> that have been dwarves. In fact I haven't even heard of any players
that
> wanted to play Dwarves.

They are kind rare in our group. Most ppl take humans because they
identify w/ them the most plus, most of the guys I used to play with
were muchkins and we didn't play w/ 'More Metas' so they didn't liek
the disadvantage of being non-human. If we did get non-human we got
mainly Elves and Trolls. Trolls because the munchkins wanted the
strongest Samuri on the Block. Elves becuase well, people jsut thought
elves were cool.

> I'm curious to find out if anyone out there plays a dwarf or runs a
game
> with a dwarf PC. If so, what is the character like. Just a short
> description would be nice.

Recently I'm playing two Dwarves -- 1 IRL, 1 PBeM. The RL one is a
Ex-LS Detective. I can't really think of his background right now. (I
haven't even thought about him in two weeks -- when I made him.) The
PBeM one is a Full Eagle Shaman Ganger. Eagle contacted him around the
time he 'came of age' and his gracious gang leader got him in touch
with the local tribe. His heritage is Native-American and he's always
liked Nature but, he's never lived outside of the city (or even
outside of the gang for that matter.) He looks at his connection with
Eagle as both a boon and a responsibility and is quite willing to do
anything he feels Eagle is leading him to do. Sometimes this gets him
in trouble with the gang [as he will choose not to do some heinous
act.] No cyberware. A large amount of his background wouldn't apply to
a normal SR game because it is intricately connected to the 'parallel'
universe that he is playing in.

I made the Shaman a Dwarf because the GM wanted more meta humans and I
always thought it would be cool to be a Dwarf.

Da Twink Daddy
bss03@*******.uark.edu
ICQ# 514984
Message no. 37
From: Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 21:36:17 CST
>From: Twist0059@***.com
>There was also the dwarf in the disastrous novel where he actually was said
>to have GOBLINIZED into a dwarf. I think it was Shadowboxer. The dwarf
>goes
>through this long thought process grieving over his life after goblinizing
>into a dwarf.
>

It was Shadowboxer. I try to forget that book existed. Just plain bad.

>
>-Twist
>"Soylent Green is people."
"To Serve Man" is a cookbook. :)

Geoff Haacke
"If you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 38
From: Manx timburke@*******.com.au
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:29:45 +1000
>But it also depends on the area. Seattle may have only 2% trolls in its
>population, but that's still 150,000 individuals. I doubt they live neatly
>spaced across the entire metroplex -- so there would be neighborhoods with
>plenty more trolls than in others.

Um Gurth, where I come from 2% of 3,000,000 is only 60,000.
That aside I agree with you that generally speaking they would
group together in ethnic neighbourhoods. I would also imagine
that these neighbourhoods would likely be closer to the Remond
& Puyallup Barrens that expected. In any case it would likely be
nearly suicidal for a corp suit human to set foot in that area
without a nice SWAT team backup.
__________________________________
Manx // timburke@*******.com.au // #950
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt
and then it's just hilarious." - Faith No More
__________________________________
Message no. 39
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:17:13 +0200
According to Manx, at 16:29 on 20 Jul 99, the word on
the street was...

> Um Gurth, where I come from 2% of 3,000,000 is only 60,000.

You're right, of course :) I must somehow have gotten 5% into my head for
a few minutes...

Still, it's a fairly large number.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Cooking with the devil, frying down in hell.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 40
From: runnerpaul@*****.com runnerpaul@*****.com
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:57:00 -0400 (EDT)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 11:17 AM 7/20/99 +0200, Gurth wrote:
:According to Manx, at 16:29 on 20 Jul 99, the word on
:the street was...
:
:> Um Gurth, where I come from 2% of 3,000,000 is only 60,000.
:
:You're right, of course :) I must somehow have gotten 5% into my
:head for a few minutes...
:
:Still, it's a fairly large number.

When you're talking about troll population figures, even the small
numbers are fairly large numbers.

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-- Paul Gettle, #186 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

---------------------------------------------------
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Message no. 41
From: arcady@***.net arcady@***.net
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 99 09:28:40 +700
>Um Gurth, where I come from 2% of 3,000,000 is only 60,000.
>That aside I agree with you that generally speaking they would
>group together in ethnic neighbourhoods. I would also imagine
>that these neighbourhoods would likely be closer to the Remond
>& Puyallup Barrens that expected. In any case it would likely be
>nearly suicidal for a corp suit human to set foot in that area
>without a nice SWAT team backup.

No more so than say a white business man in today's world walking into Watts
in LA or West Oakland. You could do it, and 90% of the time be perfectly safe
as they have no interest in you. But the white guy's going be self conscious
and popular myth will make him think that 90% is reversed from what it actually
is.

Those trolls will no there's no benifit in messing with the suit. Unless he's
there to do business or meet someone; he'll get ignored. And the people he's
there to meet will likely be the only ones who'll bother with him. Now it's
up to his behavoir to determine if those people are safe or dangerous. And like
as not he doesn't know the rules behind the local ettiquite. And that's where
the danger lies.
Arcady WebRPG Magistrate http://townhall.webrpg.com <0){{{{><
Artwork: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ The revolution will not be telivised. It'll be emailed.
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 42
From: Roger Ramirez chariot@*********.net
Subject: Dwarves in Shadowrun
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 00:48:20 -0400
>> Just a short
>> description would be nice.
>>
>> Chariot
>>
>
> Was that last sentence a DELIBERATE one? Huh? HUH??
>

Hehe didn't notice the pun there.

Chariot

Further Reading

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Thwap!