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Message no. 1
From: Jeremy DeVore jmortir@*****.net
Subject: Early Brainstorming: A Little Zombie Anatomy
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 00:49:02 -0600
Note to everyone - this comes from one of my earlier brainstorming sessions.
I will be posting the later ones also, so that everyone can see where I am
coming from here.

On to the topic of my post here... Zombie Anatomy!

Any being who dies in an area of contamination (the alien Astral Field)
becomes a zombie within a few minutes. Also, a person bitten by a living
dead will die in a few hours and re-animate as a walking corpse. This corpse
is consumed with the desire to eat the living although it takes no
nourishment from it; in fact a zombie without a stomach will still gorge
itself on living flesh.

The living dead require no rest and shamble along endlessly, but they are
slower than a living being and very uncoordinated. They are easily shoved
out of the way or knocked over. That is a general statement. I have seen
especially in Day of the Dead where some fresh Zombies were moving damn fast
and were a big problem for the protagonists (the woman in the projects takes
two SWAT member to take down). I suppose it'd be an entirely random thing.

Unfortunately, wounds don't affect them very much. A shotgun blast in the
chest will knock one down, but won't truly hurt it. But how much damage
before the whole thing falls apart? There are weapons out there that could
rip a corpse to shreds. The zombie will drag itself back up and continue the
pursuit. The only way to kill it is to destroy the brain. Bullets, knives,
spikes: anything driven into the brain will cause the corpse to collapse,
but don't confuse this with decapitation.

Zombies rot, but much slower than would a normal dead body. As they rot
wouldn't the needed nerves and synapses for cybernetics slowly degrade to
the point where they are useless? <Maybe rules where the length of time dead
modified by the weather would equal how well it worked?> And there is always
the question if rotting flesh could support the weight of cyberwear. I can
remember images a shambling Zombie with it's arm falling off from it's own
weight. According to Dr. Logan in Day of the Dead, a living dead can
continue to function for ten to twelve years before rotting away. This makes
the likelihood of survival of humanity much less likely.

The mental capacities of a zombie are rudimentary at best. They do not
reason very well and do not employ any kind of strategy other than charging.
They do seem to have some memory of their old lives, often imitating things
they once did. These imitations are very basic, such as sitting behind the
wheel of a parked car for no apparent reason. In Day of the Dead, the zombie
Bub remembers how to fire a gun. The fact he actually hit someone suprized
the hell out of me, because a monkey could aim and fire a gun like that. He
also remembers saluting military personnel. But in no way does this
constitute that they remember any of their skills.

Zombies are weaker than living humans and they are very uncoordinated (again
I bring up the ferocious zombies). They generally attack in groups. They do
not use coordinated attacks or pack strategy; they just mill around and
swarm anything that looks alive. They simply drag prey down and start
biting.

I can already think of a damn good use of the Rot Spell! And in a very dry
and arid area Fireball would be "interesting". For obvious reasons Mana
spells will have no affect on them. I am theorizing that Illusions would be
ineffective against them too. And I feel sorry for any Petro houngan who
thinks he knows how to deal with these Zombies. A Detect Living Dead spell
could be useful, and a Detect Infection spell may be the only way to save
some people's lives...

Let's talk about the Infection for a sec here. When something becomes
contaminated with this alien Astral Field (I will cover that topic in it's
own post), it carries the field with it. A normal healthy Astral Field is
brought into existence by the living, while this one attaches itself onto
inanimate matter like a leech. The various liquids in a corpse (blood,
saliva, and I'll let you use your imagination on the others) carry this
Astral Field with it. When it enters the body of a living being the healthy
Astral is altered slowly until it is subsumed by the alien one. The
biological changes in the living person are a side effect of this Astral
battle. The time it takes between the initial infection and becoming a
Zombie is supposed to take a few hours. But with the addition of an alien
Astral Field that becomes a little more complicated. Essence would come into
play wouldn't it? If it came to battles between healthy and alien Astral
Fields wouldn't a magician fare better (well last longer) than a Street Sam?
And the only ways I can see anyone being saved from this Infection would be
to amputate before the infected material spread too far into the body, or
otherwise purge the infected material from their bodies.

If there are any comments on this ya'll would like to make or to remind me
of something I may of overlooked or forgotten (I hate surprises) I'd
appreciate it. Expect more posts from me on the various aspects of this
idea. I think the next one will be on the Astral Field itself. Who knows I
might write the entire thing by posting it (sure helps to get some ideas out
in the open and to expect some input :) )

Later

J
http://www.prysm.net/~jmortir/AWINS
ICQ# 27381095

"Tis a nobler thing I... Aw screw it! Bye..."
Message no. 2
From: Jordan findlerman@*****.com
Subject: Early Brainstorming: A Little Zombie Anatomy
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:16:07 -0800 (PST)
I would like to hear more on this alien astral feild...you say that it
would negate Mana Spells...if astral space itself is different,
wouldn't all magic work differently, if at all? Wouldn't NPC zombies
be completely immune to magic? Even weapon foci wouldn't work right.
PhysAds....they all use/depend on the astral space, even those who
don't Astrally Perceive or Project. The foci use oricalcum(sp) the
fuse in mana, making it a more effective weapon, and a spell focus at
the same time, but if a mage (hermatic or shamanic) ran up to a zombie
to stab it in the head with his/her Katana focus, wouldn't there be a
modifier? After all, they are expecting that focus to work a certain
way, and with the bonuses for using it...suddenly those have at least
changed, if not disappeared. The PA (PhysAd) running up, using it's
magic to boost his/her reflexes would approach it, then suddenly have
that magic ripped away from it....Is what I am saying so far
consistent? Tell us more about this Alien Astral Space.

--Fin (eagerly listening for ways to pull a cruel joke on his player
magicians & PAs)
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Message no. 3
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Early Brainstorming: A Little Zombie Anatomy
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:16:09 -0400
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Jordan."
]I would like to hear more on this alien astral feild...you say that it
]would negate Mana Spells...

I think what he said was that "Mana spells wouldn't
work for obvious reasons," or something along those lines.
Meaning that Zombies just aren't alive, so Mana spells
would be pretty darned inneffective. Nothing to do with
the astral field.

Scott
Message no. 4
From: Jordan findlerman@*****.com
Subject: Early Brainstorming: A Little Zombie Anatomy
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:47:07 -0800 (PST)
> I think what he said was that "Mana spells wouldn't
> work for obvious reasons," or something along those lines.
> Meaning that Zombies just aren't alive, so Mana spells
> would be pretty darned inneffective. Nothing to do with
> the astral field.

Yeah, that's what he said, but that's not the aspect I wanted to go
off of. What about the effects of carry around some alien astral
spacee? Like a fovae to go :)

--Fin
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Message no. 5
From: Dodge d7582@*****.com
Subject: Early Brainstorming: A Little Zombie Anatomy
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:50:47 -0800
Jeremy DeVore wrote:
<snip lots of undead stuff>
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but arn't zombies that eat flesh
vaugly resemblant of ghouls? Wouldn't that workjust as well?

P.S. I don't have a spell checker, sorry...
Message no. 6
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Early Brainstorming: A Little Zombie Anatomy
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:51:46 -0400
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Dodge."
]I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but arn't zombies that eat flesh
]vaugly resemblant of ghouls? Wouldn't that workjust as well?

I don't think so. Ghouls are a metahuman variant. They
are alive, sentient, and intelligent (well, the wild ones are
alive at least). The whole Day of the Dead thing is
concentrating on nasty-bads who are dead. Also, ghouls
eat dead people, the Dead eat living brains.
Which brings to mind a funny thought...I can just see
a ghoul biting into supper, and then supper biting into him.

Scott
Message no. 7
From: Wyrmy elfman@******.com
Subject: Early Brainstorming: A Little Zombie Anatomy
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:20:33 -0600
> Which brings to mind a funny thought...I can just see
> a ghoul biting into supper, and then supper biting into him.

Yeah! and how about that Petro Dude who thought that it was his sentry
zombie shambling toward him and let it get close, realized it wasnt his,
and then was surrounded and eaten.Not a pretty picture.
--
-W in the light
----------------------------------------------------------
Wyrmy: Wyrm druid, Scholar, Pokemon trainer extroidenaire.
Famous Quote: "Pikachu? What Pikachu?" BZRAK "Oh,(cough), THAT
Pikachu!"
Message no. 8
From: Jeremy DeVore jmortir@*****.net
Subject: Early Brainstorming: A Little Zombie Anatomy
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:06:44 -0600
Scott Wheelock writes:

>"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Dodge."
>]I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but arn't zombies that eat >flesh
>]vaugly resemblant of ghouls? Wouldn't that workjust as well?

> I don't think so. Ghouls are a metahuman variant. They
>are alive, sentient, and intelligent (well, the wild ones are
>alive at least). The whole Day of the Dead thing is
>concentrating on nasty-bads who are dead.

Exactly

>Also, ghouls eat dead people, the Dead eat living brains.

There are two different types of Pop Culture Zombies out there. One was
introduced in the 60's by George Romero in Night of the Living Dead. The
other was put forth in an attempt to make a campy Zombie movie, Return of
the Living Dead. In NotLD the zombies ate human flesh, didn't matter where
it came from on the victim as long as the victim was alive (a very
primordial instinct came out EAT...). In RotLD the zombies craved human
brains and needed them for "comfort" similar to a Vampire's hunger. The
Living Dead in NotLD have almost NO memory, but the ones in RotLD have quite
a bit more and introduce the Intelligent Living Dead. Normally I wouldn't
bring this up but I have had a few brainstorming ideas about the Dual
Natured beings out there... :)

Later
 
J
http://www.prysm.net/~jmortir/AWINS
ICQ# 27381095
 
"Tis a nobler thing I... Aw screw it! Bye..."
Message no. 9
From: Jeremy DeVore jmortir@*****.net
Subject: Early Brainstorming: A Little Zombie Anatomy
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:06:51 -0600
Scott Wheelock wrote:

>"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Jordan."
>]I would like to hear more on this alien astral feild...you say that it
>]would negate Mana Spells...

> I think what he said was that "Mana spells wouldn't
>work for obvious reasons," or something along those lines.
>Meaning that Zombies just aren't alive, so Mana spells
>would be pretty darned inneffective. Nothing to do with
>the astral field.

Nope Mana would as effective against the Living Dead as it would against a
leather coat. Which brings me to an interesting post I had once that should
interest some people. Some one was asking me if the Living Dead would be
easy for an Insect Spirit to overcome, because they have no Willpower. I had
to bring up that the Living Dead are DEAD.

Later
 
J
http://www.prysm.net/~jmortir/AWINS
ICQ# 27381095
 
"Tis a nobler thing I... Aw screw it! Bye..."
Message no. 10
From: Jeremy DeVore jmortir@*****.net
Subject: Early Brainstorming: A Little Zombie Anatomy
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:06:41 -0600
Dodge [d7582@*****.com] wrote:

>Jeremy DeVore wrote:
><snip lots of undead stuff>
>I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but arn't zombies that eat >flesh
vaugly resemblant of ghouls? Wouldn't that workjust as well?

>P.S. I don't have a spell checker, sorry...

I can't do much without my spell checker and I had to go without one for a
long time until I got a REAL word processing program that could share a
spell checker.

Anyway...

The Living Dead (I stopped using the term Zombie a while back because
someone pointed out that Shadowrun already has at least two different kinds
of Zombies) VAGUELY resemble ghouls. But there are differences. For one the
Living Dead possess next to know brain. They have instincts (go eat human
flesh...) and may possess a remnant of their past memories (in Day of the
Dead (theatrical release) Bub salutes and is able to remember how to shoot a
gun (very poorly, but he shoots a guy running down a hall). Most are stuck
wandering places that meant something to them in life. And I haven't even
really started to think about what will happen if Awakened sentients, such
as Dragons or Vampires are Infected. That is a BIG can of worms to open...

Later
 
J
http://www.prysm.net/~jmortir/AWINS
ICQ# 27381095
 
"Tis a nobler thing I... Aw screw it! Bye..."
Message no. 11
From: Wyrmy elfman@******.com
Subject: Early Brainstorming: A Little Zombie Anatomy
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:14:50 -0600
Jeremy DeVore wrote:
>
> Dodge [d7582@*****.com] wrote:
>
> >Jeremy DeVore wrote:
> ><snip lots of undead stuff>
> >I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but arn't zombies that eat >flesh
> vaugly resemblant of ghouls? Wouldn't that workjust as well?
>
> >P.S. I don't have a spell checker, sorry...
>
> I can't do much without my spell checker and I had to go without one for a
> long time until I got a REAL word processing program that could share a
> spell checker.
>
> Anyway...
>
> The Living Dead (I stopped using the term Zombie a while back because
> someone pointed out that Shadowrun already has at least two different kinds
> of Zombies) VAGUELY resemble ghouls. But there are differences. For one the
> Living Dead possess next to know brain. They have instincts (go eat human
> flesh...) and may possess a remnant of their past memories (in Day of the
> Dead (theatrical release) Bub salutes and is able to remember how to shoot a
> gun (very poorly, but he shoots a guy running down a hall). Most are stuck
> wandering places that meant something to them in life. And I haven't even
> really started to think about what will happen if Awakened sentients, such
> as Dragons or Vampires are Infected. That is a BIG can of worms to open...
>

Well, If that can is too big, leave it shut. I once ran a campaighn like
this, and I had a seen, watched by the players from a far hillside, A
dragon fighting a group of living dead. The dragon sent a searing gust
of flame to kill the deads. They were blown down and on fire, but they
werent dead.No siree! they got right back up again. The dragon was
terrified, and took some zombies with him, but he was zombied real
quick. Then he went out to look for Living-Dragons to devour. THe
players were especialy paranoid after that.

--
-W in the light
----------------------------------------------------------
Wyrmy: Wyrm druid, Scholar, Pokemon trainer extroidenaire.
Famous Quote: "Pikachu? What Pikachu?" BZRAK "Oh,(cough), THAT
Pikachu!"
Message no. 12
From: Protokol13 Protokol13@********.com
Subject: Early Brainstorming: A Little Zombie Anatomy
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:44:46 -0500
Jeremy DeVore wrote:

> >>>
> There are two different types of Pop Culture Zombies out there. One was
> introduced in the 60's by George Romero in Night of the Living Dead. The
> other was put forth in an attempt to make a campy Zombie movie, Return of
> the Living Dead. In NotLD the zombies ate human flesh, didn't matter where
> it came from on the victim as long as the victim was alive (a very
> primordial instinct came out EAT...). In RotLD the zombies craved human
> brains and needed them for "comfort" similar to a Vampire's hunger. The
> Living Dead in NotLD have almost NO memory, but the ones in RotLD have quite
> a bit more and introduce the Intelligent Living Dead. Normally I wouldn't
> bring this up but I have had a few brainstorming ideas about the Dual
> Natured beings out there... :)

>>>

That is true, but wouldn't you say that in either case the true spirit of the
person is not grounded on the current plane of exsistence? Meaning that any
undead creatures shouldn't be able to be affected by mana spells. 1st of all,
their aura is hard to target, because in many cases it's too faint, or gone
altogether... Even if memories do remain, they are sad representations to what
they were in real-life, and thus their aura would be almost non-exsistent, or
stemming from another source entirely (the source or the un-life, for example).

Another thought that has come to my mind, is the reason for unlife. It seems
like raising the dead sort of powers are not common among magicians, what ideas
surround the actual reason for the undead walking about. I would just like some
suggestions. Because I've never gotten into the undead in my adventures yet.

-=PrOtoKol13=-
ICQ: 17589925
Message no. 13
From: Kyoto the Angel dann1@********.erols.com
Subject: Early Brainstorming: A Little Zombie Anatomy
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 01:28:29 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Protokol13 <Protokol13@********.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: Early Brainstorming: A Little Zombie Anatomy


>Jeremy DeVore wrote:
>
>> >>>
>> There are two different types of Pop Culture Zombies out there. One was
>> introduced in the 60's by George Romero in Night of the Living Dead. The
>> other was put forth in an attempt to make a campy Zombie movie, Return of
>> the Living Dead. In NotLD the zombies ate human flesh, didn't matter
where
>> it came from on the victim as long as the victim was alive (a very
>> primordial instinct came out EAT...). In RotLD the zombies craved human
>> brains and needed them for "comfort" similar to a Vampire's hunger. The
>> Living Dead in NotLD have almost NO memory, but the ones in RotLD have
quite
>> a bit more and introduce the Intelligent Living Dead. Normally I wouldn't
>> bring this up but I have had a few brainstorming ideas about the Dual
>> Natured beings out there... :)
>
>>>>
>
>That is true, but wouldn't you say that in either case the true spirit of
the
>person is not grounded on the current plane of exsistence? Meaning that
any
>undead creatures shouldn't be able to be affected by mana spells. 1st of
all,
>their aura is hard to target, because in many cases it's too faint, or gone
>altogether... Even if memories do remain, they are sad representations to
what
>they were in real-life, and thus their aura would be almost non-exsistent,
or
>stemming from another source entirely (the source or the un-life, for
example).
>
>Another thought that has come to my mind, is the reason for unlife. It
seems
>like raising the dead sort of powers are not common among magicians, what
ideas
>surround the actual reason for the undead walking about. I would just like
some
>suggestions. Because I've never gotten into the undead in my adventures
yet.
>
Possibly a different branch of the Astral most don't dare look into governs
energy for un-life. I'm guessing maybe, just as in most fantasy games, not
many mages have any desire, or are even repulsed by the idea of bringing
life back to that which is already dead

Kyoto the Angel
AIM: AngelKyoto
ICQ: 29713335

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