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Message no. 1
From: Court Schuett <schuett@******.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: ED and SR
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:41:03 -0500
Lou posted this on the ED list, and I thought, with some talk on the SR
list about ED and SR.

>From: FASALou@***.com
> Just to make this *official*, Earthdawn and Shadowrun are in fact set on
>the SAME WORLD, just several thousand years apart (and yes, Earthdawn takes
>place BEFORE Shadowrun). There has NOT been any sort of decision to separate
>the games. However, we will not be including lots and lots of references to
>this connection (for instance, the Horrors aren't going to appear in the SR
>world until their time comes, in a couple of thousand years...), and there
>will NEVER be direct crossovers or conversions between the two games.
>
>Hope this clears things up,
>
>Lou Prosperi




-=Court

/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.
schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
they call me william holden caufield
it was no compliment
what's wrong with william holden caufield?
oh yeah
-Too Much Joy
*****************************************************************************/
Message no. 2
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: ED and SR
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:59:03 +1000
> > Just to make this *official*, Earthdawn and Shadowrun are in fact set on
> >the SAME WORLD, just several thousand years apart (and yes, Earthdawn takes
> >place BEFORE Shadowrun). There has NOT been any sort of decision to separate
> >the games. However, we will not be including lots and lots of references to
> >this connection (for instance, the Horrors aren't going to appear in the SR
> >world until their time comes, in a couple of thousand years...), and there
> >will NEVER be direct crossovers or conversions between the two games.
> >
> >Hope this clears things up,
> >
> >Lou Prosperi
>

Oh, well... It's nice to hear it officially, I guess. I thought FASA
might just ignore the Horror/Earthdawn connection in future, and pretend
it never happened.

I was pretty amused when it was all still hidden, and it took some real
reading of the sourcebooks to figure out that Dunkelzahn was actually
"Dark Tooth" from Earthdawn, etc.

It was a bit like an insider's joke.

Done reminiscing now.

Marty
Message no. 3
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117" <KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: ED and SR
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:16:43 -0500
You wrote:
> Oh, well... It's nice to hear it officially, I guess. I thought FASA
> might just ignore the Horror/Earthdawn connection in future, and pretend
> it never happened.

> I was pretty amused when it was all still hidden, and it took some real
> reading of the sourcebooks to figure out that Dunkelzahn was actually
> "Dark Tooth" from Earthdawn, etc.

> It was a bit like an insider's joke.

I think what bothered me about it is, ED was a nice, stand-alone fantasy world,
that didn't rely on bits of our own world, didn't purport to be the world the
way it was back when there was magic, etc. I liked the fact that ED was a
created world, a unique fantasy. Connecting it to our world (even just as the
past to SR, which isn't exactly our world) weakened it for me.

losthalo
Message no. 4
From: VAEL <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Re: ED and SR
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:24:25 +0000
If memory serves correctly, Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote:

> I think what bothered me about it is, ED was a nice, stand-alone fantasy world,
> that didn't rely on bits of our own world, didn't purport to be the world the
> way it was back when there was magic, etc. I liked the fact that ED was a
> created world, a unique fantasy. Connecting it to our world (even just as the
> past to SR, which isn't exactly our world) weakened it for me.

I believe that from the start, Barsaive _always_ was the past history
of the Shadowrun world. I think that Shadowrun was the world that had
to 'bend' to fit into the Earthdawn timeline.

There never was mentioned anything about The Enemy before Earthdawn
was published, or being designed in Shadowrun.

Earthdawn hasn't been effect _at all_ by the people or happenings of
Shadowrun. But instead it is the reverse, Shadowrun has changed
because of ED.

> losthalo
^^^^^^^^
Lynch vs. Reznor? Just wondering.

Vael
Message no. 5
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: ED and SR
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 16:55:56 +1000
> > I was pretty amused when it was all still hidden, and it took some real
> > reading of the sourcebooks to figure out that Dunkelzahn was actually
> > "Dark Tooth" from Earthdawn, etc.
>
> > It was a bit like an insider's joke.
>
> I think what bothered me about it is, ED was a nice, stand-alone fantasy world,
> that didn't rely on bits of our own world, didn't purport to be the world the
> way it was back when there was magic, etc. I liked the fact that ED was a
> created world, a unique fantasy. Connecting it to our world (even just as the
> past to SR, which isn't exactly our world) weakened it for me.
>

You've never really looked at the map of Earthdawn, have you? That was
what got me started thinking about possible connections in the first
place. The Earthdawn world is set around the Black Sea area, and the
isle of Thera is equivalent to Crete.

When half the campaign history is based around an island nation which
mysteriously blew up/dissapeared, it doesn't take an Einstein to start
equating possible historical myths/examples/legends

Marty
Message no. 6
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: ED and SR
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 04:56:10 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-16 01:49:16 EDT, you write:

> I think what bothered me about it is, ED was a nice, stand-alone fantasy
world,
> that didn't rely on bits of our own world, didn't purport to be the world
the
> way it was back when there was magic, etc. I liked the fact that ED was a
> created world, a unique fantasy. Connecting it to our world (even just as
the
> past to SR, which isn't exactly our world) weakened it for me.

I don't see it as a weakening. Who knows what happens between the time of
Barsaive and 3000 BCE? There's no way of knowing. They are still more than
separate enough. I mean, the name of the game IS Earthdawn, so the logical
steps followed would be that it is Earth's ancient past.
As for SR not being exactly our world, why don't we wait for 2011 before
anyone makes any snap judgements on that, eh? =)

Wolfstar, 'cause you never know what's gonna happen.
Message no. 7
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: ED and SR
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 05:15:27 -0400
At 04:56 AM 8/16/97 -0400, George Metz wrote these timeless words:

>I don't see it as a weakening. Who knows what happens between the time of
>Barsaive and 3000 BCE? There's no way of knowing. They are still more than
>separate enough. I mean, the name of the game IS Earthdawn, so the logical
>steps followed would be that it is Earth's ancient past.
> As for SR not being exactly our world, why don't we wait for 2011 before
>anyone makes any snap judgements on that, eh? =)
>
Well, i'm not sure this is truly relevant, but I'll throw it in anyways...;]

A) Earthdawn WAS originally created to be set in Earth's distant past,
rather than in a fictional setting like AD&D or Tolkien. This was done
because while it gave the ED authors a chance to use Earth's RL mythology,
it also gave them a chance to "explain" where these myth's in present day
came from.

B) ED was originally NOT going to be linked to SR. A few gamer junies
made the (at the time, false) connection, and Tom Dowd and crew said "Hey,
taht could be cool". Unfortunately, while the games used several similar
aspects and ideas (Elves, Great Dragons, etc), there were enough major
differences between the two to make them virtually incompatible by any real
definition (Thread magic, for example.). This has forced SR into somewhat
of a quandry, as they are forced to rely on certain aspects of ED, and are
forced to conform with it, just as ED is forced to conform with SR. (After
all, you can't kill harley off in ED, cause he's in SR!). But at the same
time, now everyone expects those aspects of ED that aren't in SR to appear
someday (Obsidimen and T'skrang, for one, as well as thread magic).

<shrug>

I think if they had decided to link the two right from the inception of ED,
it could have gone ok, as they could have planned things better and
designed ED to suit... But since they didn;t, they're stuck with too many
incompatibilities and problems, and it would have been better to leave the
two unlinked, as BT and the SR/ED earth are...

> Wolfstar, 'cause you never know what's gonna happen.
>
I know exactly what's gonna happen...:] I goblinize into an Ork, and I get
a Datajack inplanted at the first oppurtunity...:] I'm also considering a
Cyber Knee replacement, for my bad knee (and I KNOW Tinner's just looking
forward to a whole set of legs...:))

Bull
--
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Message no. 8
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: ED and SR
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:30:26 -0500
At 07:24 PM 8/15/97 +0000, VAEL wrote:
#I believe that from the start, Barsaive _always_ was the past history
#of the Shadowrun world. I think that Shadowrun was the world that had
#to 'bend' to fit into the Earthdawn timeline.
#
#There never was mentioned anything about The Enemy before Earthdawn
#was published, or being designed in Shadowrun.
#
#Earthdawn hasn't been effect _at all_ by the people or happenings of
#Shadowrun. But instead it is the reverse, Shadowrun has changed
#because of ED.

I don't know about that.
The Harlequin module was pubbed in '91
I do not remember ever hearing anything about Earthdawn that early,
I could be wrong
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 9
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: ED and SR
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:26:14 -0500
At 08:16 PM 8/15/97 -0500, Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote:
#I think what bothered me about it is, ED was a nice, stand-alone fantasy
world,
#that didn't rely on bits of our own world, didn't purport to be the world the
#way it was back when there was magic, etc. I liked the fact that ED was a
#created world, a unique fantasy. Connecting it to our world (even just as
the
#past to SR, which isn't exactly our world) weakened it for me.

Umm, so the title, Earth Dawn didn't point it out?
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 10
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: ED and SR
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 17:35:00 GMT
on 16.08.97 chaos@*****.COM wrote:

c> > Wolfstar, 'cause you never know what's gonna happen.
c> >
c> I know exactly what's gonna happen...:] I goblinize into an Ork, and I get
c> a Datajack inplanted at the first oppurtunity...:] I'm also considering a
c> Cyber Knee replacement, for my bad knee (and I KNOW Tinner's just looking
c> forward to a whole set of legs...:))

Yeah! I'm tuning into an shaper, as a panther-ghost posesses me, then I'm
going to be raised by a shaper-fox (which will be funny, as I'm 31 by then
and he's just born)....I'm looking forward to it....

Tobias
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
Message no. 11
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: ED and SR
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 05:17:06 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-16 21:46:00 EDT, you write:

> A) Earthdawn WAS originally created to be set in Earth's distant past,
> rather than in a fictional setting like AD&D or Tolkien. This was done
> because while it gave the ED authors a chance to use Earth's RL mythology,
> it also gave them a chance to "explain" where these myth's in present day
> came from.

Sounds good, but Tolkien is also Earth's distant past. That's a good thing,
IMHO, since it would cut down some on crossovers between the two. Not much,
but some.

> > Wolfstar, 'cause you never know what's gonna happen.
> >
> I know exactly what's gonna happen...:] I goblinize into an Ork, and I
get
> a Datajack inplanted at the first oppurtunity...:] I'm also considering a
> Cyber Knee replacement, for my bad knee (and I KNOW Tinner's just looking
> forward to a whole set of legs...:))

Heh. Me, I'm just looking forward to willing a fireball into existence and
it actually happening. =) If I was gonna go cyber though, it'd have to be
VCR, all the way. It's the ONLY way to fly! =)

Wolfstar
Message no. 12
From: Daniel Gelinske <dunkelzahn@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: ED and SR
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 1980 03:42:12 PST
> Sounds good, but Tolkien is also Earth's distant past. That's a good =
thing,
> IMHO, since it would cut down some on crossovers between the two. Not =
much,
> but some.
Hmm... I find it kind of interesting the correlations between the Tolkien=
"ages" and the
Mayan Calendar "worlds" that SR literature speaks about.
---Daniel Gelinske
http://inetarena.com/~dunkelzahn/main.html

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about ED and SR, you may also be interested in:

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