Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Fanguad fanguad@****.rit.edu
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 12:25:17 -0400
Does anybody have the stats for a chainsaw?

Also desired are things I can do to make this character pay for
trying to tote one around on Shadowruns.
(besides being a bullet-magnet & extremely loud)

-Fanguad
-------------------------
Modern programming is a race between programmers
striving to create bigger and better idiot-proof
programs, and the Universe trying to create bigger
and better idiots.

So far, the Universe is winning.
Message no. 2
From: Ojaste,James [NCR] James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:39:45 -0400
> From: Fanguad [mailto:fanguad@****.rit.edu]
> Sent: October 6, 1999 12:25
>
> Does anybody have the stats for a chainsaw?

No official stats. I'd guess at around (STR-2)S - you can't
get a lot of leverage, so getting the saw to grab requires effort.
Once it grabs though, it *tears*.

> Also desired are things I can do to make this character pay for
> trying to tote one around on Shadowruns.
> (besides being a bullet-magnet & extremely loud)

It's also bulky and heavy. Here are a few off the top of my head:
- Have it run out of gas or electricity if he uses it for too long
- Have everybody laugh at him for carrying it around all the time?
- Have an enemy use a chainsaw to commit a crime and watch everybody
blame it on him because he's the only nutcase around who uses one?

James Ojaste
Message no. 3
From: dbuehrer@****.org dbuehrer@****.org
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:42:26 -0600
Fanguad wrote:
\ Does anybody have the stats for a chainsaw?
\
\ Also desired are things I can do to make this character pay for
\ trying to tote one around on Shadowruns.
\ (besides being a bullet-magnet & extremely loud)

Make sure he has the skill Armed Combat: Chainsaw.

And as for punishement, it all depends. If he's like Ash from Evil Dead
II, I'd let him do it :) If it's done in the Texas Chainsaw Masacre vein
(sorry bout the pun ;) I'd have Lone Star crawling all over him (but that's
just me).

Also, if he brings to a meet I'd probably have the following happen:

Johnson: Is that a chainsaw?
TCM PC: Yep.
Johnson: Hmmm...
Johnson: Excuse me, I left something out in the car. I'll be right back.
<Johnson leaves>
<several minutes pass>
TCM PC: Man, I hope he doesn't take too long. I gotta get home and sharpen
my chainsaw.
<more time passes>
<more time passes>
<PC finally gets a clue>
TCM PC: Doh!

So on the next meet the PC leaves the chainsaw at home, and gets hired for
a run.

If he uses the chainsaw on the run future Johnsons would either refuse to
hire him, and Johnsons who need a chainsaw toting maniac would hire him.
(Think about it <EGMG>.)

Try to tell the player that a chainsaw is not a shadowrunning item.
Shadowrunners are supposed to be covert. A chainsaw is not covert.

Also, if he's hit with a fireball the gas in the tank will probably go off
(or if it's electric that batteries will probably explode). It'll never
make it through security. People will look at him funny (the ones that
don't run away that is). The "wrong crowd" will be attracted to him. Etc.

-Graht
--
"The battles that count aren't the ones for gold medals.
The struggles within yourself; the invisible, inevitable
battles inside all of us; that's where it's at."
-Jesse Owens
Message no. 4
From: Number Ten Ox Number_10_Ox@**********.com
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:58:33 -0700 (PDT)
> Does anybody have the stats for a chainsaw?
(STR+5)S or so. Maybe (STR+5)D. Concealability? Yeah, right.

> Also desired are things I can do to make this character pay for
> trying to tote one around on Shadowruns.
> (besides being a bullet-magnet & extremely loud)
Well, let's see.

Chainsaws aren't silent by any stretch of the imagination. Security guards
will be drawn like flies to the team's location.

Chainsaws aren't neat by any stretch of the imagination. See what happens
the first time he uses it and splatters himself and his teammates with
flying gore. See how well his teammates like continuing on a shadowrun when
they're drenched in sticky, drying blood, stink like an abattoir and leave
bloody trails behind them on floors.

Chainsaws are a very *distinctive* weapon. Lone Star and corp security
will be able to identify the modus operandi of the team based on the
chainsaw's presence. ("Gee, Bart, these security guards have been
dismembered by a chainsaw. Figure these're the same skags who hit the
Stuffer Shack on 10th and Emerson last month?" "Yeah, Bob, reckon you're
right..") This may well lead to Lone Star putting on a nice manhunt for the
team by portraying them as suicidal maniacs -- come on, who *else* would
use a chainsaw?

How's that for starters?





> -Fanguad
> -------------------------
> Modern programming is a race between programmers
> striving to create bigger and better idiot-proof
> programs, and the Universe trying to create bigger
> and better idiots.
>
> So far, the Universe is winning.
>
>


====--Number 10 Ox.
"It's a big yellow rubber ducky."
"Is it rigger-driven?"


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Message no. 5
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:56:56 -0400
> Does anybody have the stats for a chainsaw?
>
> Also desired are things I can do to make this character pay for
> trying to tote one around on Shadowruns.
> (besides being a bullet-magnet & extremely loud)

Well, we had a player, once, who played a gentleman named Holocaust [yes,
yes, we should have known, now shut up] who toted about a wood chipper. A
gasoline wood chipper. For disposing of bodies.

Not only would, soon, no one work with the type of idiot who would wheel
around a wood chipper, but very soon, no one would hire him. I mean, this is
not stable and professional behavior. It was very loud, obvious, explosive,
threatening, and distinctive. It was also disgusting and evidentiary of some
type of very serious mental disorder.

Eventually, we shot him. And then we killed his character.
Message no. 6
From: dbuehrer@****.org dbuehrer@****.org
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:06:50 -0600
Number Ten Ox wrote:
\
\ Chainsaws aren't neat by any stretch of the imagination. See what happens
\ the first time he uses it and splatters himself and his teammates with
\ flying gore. See how well his teammates like continuing on a shadowrun when
\ they're drenched in sticky, drying blood, stink like an abattoir and leave
\ bloody trails behind them on floors.

I forgot all about that. I've used chainsaws on many occasions, and they
spread sawdust *everywhere*. I can't even imagine the kind of mess a
chainsaw would make if you used it on a person.

Also, where as a chainsaw would go through flesh like a hot knife through
butter, they won't deal with bones as easily. Also, limbs will get sucked
right into the chain mechanism. When using a chainsaw on trees the tree is
heavy enough to stay in place, or you put your foot on it (*away* from the
chainsaw). When taking branches off a tree the branch is attached to the
tree, so it doesn't get pulled into the chainsaw. However, if you tried to
cut someone's arm off the chainsaw would likely bite on the bone and pull
the target toward the attacker, pulling the arm into the chainsaw, jamming it.

A chainsaw may sound like a pretty good weapon to use on a person, but I
don't think it would.

Okay, anyone wanna talk about something less gruesome like daisies or
puppies? :)

-Graht
--
"The light is reached not by turning back from the darkness,
but by going through it."
Message no. 7
From: Kevin Langevin kevinl@******.com
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:35:32 -0400
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fanguad [mailto:fanguad@****.rit.edu]
> Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
>
> Also desired are things I can do to make this character pay for
> trying to tote one around on Shadowruns.
> (besides being a bullet-magnet & extremely loud)

Petrified wood body armor?

:)

-Kev
Message no. 8
From: Drashal drashal1@*****.com
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:52:16 -0700 (PDT)
--- dbuehrer@****.org wrote:
> Fanguad wrote:
> \ Does anybody have the stats for a chainsaw?
> \
> \ Also desired are things I can do to make this
> character pay for
> \ trying to tote one around on Shadowruns.
> \ (besides being a bullet-magnet & extremely loud)
>

ok one thing that comes to mind instantly is the fact
that most of the armors for Shadowrun are fiber weaves
w/ plates added

which is the same make-up of modern Chainsaw Chaps and
arm guards whitch are made so that if you slip with a
chainsaw the fibers entangle the chain of the saw
preventing you from sawing you leg or arm off

now i know from personal exp. that if you you do get
hit with one of these at most you will get is a slight
cut maybe 1" deep and the saw was out to the shop for
about 3 days

so against armored personal using a chainsaw will give
you maybe a 10M damage code with a test required to
see if the saw gets jamed

next most security personal have metal on them. when
the saw blade hits that it will either break the
chain,lock the chain up with a good chance of burning
the engine out, or fling the peice of metal at high
speed which can be very leathal in it own right


thanks for your time
drashal

====......And the Dodo sang "Every thing you think you know is wrong".........
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Message no. 9
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:59:00 -0400
> \ Chainsaws aren't neat by any stretch of the imagination. See what
happens
> \ the first time he uses it and splatters himself and his teammates with
> \ flying gore. See how well his teammates like continuing on a shadowrun
when
> \ they're drenched in sticky, drying blood, stink like an abattoir and
leave
> \ bloody trails behind them on floors.
>
> I forgot all about that. I've used chainsaws on many occasions, and they
> spread sawdust *everywhere*. I can't even imagine the kind of mess a
> chainsaw would make if you used it on a person.
>
> Also, where as a chainsaw would go through flesh like a hot knife through
> butter, they won't deal with bones as easily. Also, limbs will get sucked
> right into the chain mechanism. When using a chainsaw on trees the tree
is
> heavy enough to stay in place, or you put your foot on it (*away* from the
> chainsaw). When taking branches off a tree the branch is attached to the
> tree, so it doesn't get pulled into the chainsaw. However, if you tried
to
> cut someone's arm off the chainsaw would likely bite on the bone and pull
> the target toward the attacker, pulling the arm into the chainsaw, jamming
it.
>
> A chainsaw may sound like a pretty good weapon to use on a person, but I
> don't think it would.

For a good expose on the use of chainsaws on meat, take a look at this
month's edition of Maxim. [No, I don't subscribe; my roommate's brother
apparently thought it would be funny to give him a subscription. But, yes,
when I run out of things to read, I do read it. Sue me.]

They have a review of a few chanisaws in it, in which they test the various
units by cutting through wood, ice, a couch, and a side of beef. That should
give you a good idea of how chainsaws cut through flesh when someone tries
real hard.
Message no. 10
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:09:47 +0200
According to Fanguad, at 12:25 on 6 Oct 99, the word on
the street was...

> Does anybody have the stats for a chainsaw?

From an old issue of Ka*Ge, stats for a chainsaw are *much page-flipping
later* on page 37 of Ka*Ge issue 7 (first quarter 1993). Since most people
are unlikely to have (access to) this issue, here's a summary:

Small chainsaw
Reach 1
Damage 4M
Weight 1.5 kg
Availability 2/8 hours
Cost 100Y
Street Index 1

Large chainsaw
Reach 1
Damage 6S
Weight 4 kg
Availability 3/8 hours
Cost 400Y
Street Index 1

Game rules: attacks with chainsaws work like other melee attacks, but with
a +2 TN modifier because of its bulk and mass. If you can keep the weapon
pressed against the target over multiple actions, you get +1 Power Level
per additional action, and +1 Damage Level per three actions (max Power =
2x base, max Damage = D). If you miss due to the target's dodging, roll 4
dice against the user's Quickness; any successes means you take the
weapon's base damage, resisted only with Body (no armor or pool dice).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I would have it all if I'd only have this much
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: Dave Mowbray dave_mowbray@*****.com
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:24:01 -0400
<snip>

Another thought on chainsaws is sheer bulk. If you want a chainsaw large
enough tobe effectively used as a weapon you're looking at a saw with a
huge blade... something like the industrial loggers use. The problem with
this is it is not only unwieldy, but the kickback is a bitch!!! So he
busts out his chainsaw with at least a 2 foot blade... hits a metal plate
in the armor and it kicks back on him!! The guy with the armor is probably
thrown to the ground, but that saw would be coming right back at him. You
could also suggest that he always needs at least one hand to carry the
thing... nothing bigger than an SMG for him!!! Not to mention his
manueverablility would be seriously impaired...
-Dave
Message no. 12
From: Aaron saarons@*****.colostate.edu
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 12:40:49 -0600
>Eventually, we shot him. And then we killed his character.

Did you dispose of him in his own 'chipper?

As for the chain saw - I would also include the "saw yourself" option
similar to mono whips.




S. Aaron Spriggs, Bugologist
Entomologists know how to spread 'em and pin 'em.
Message no. 13
From: Arclight arclight@*********.de
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:55:05 +0200
And finally, Number Ten Ox expressed himself by writing:

> Chainsaws aren't silent by any stretch of the imagination.
> Security guards will be drawn like flies to the team's location.

And don't forget that they'll rather lay an ambush than
running to where the sound originates.

arclight
Message no. 14
From: The Phantom phantom023@*******.com
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:10:59 GMT
<snipping all the gore toting goodies>

So I guess making a group of characters based off of Zartan's posse from GI
Joe is out of the question, eh?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The Phantom~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A decker with a shotgun beats four aces anyday."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow~~~~~~~~~~~~~

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 15
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:54:41 -0500
:A chainsaw may sound like a pretty good weapon to use on a person, but I
:don't think it would.


Aside from the "chain suck" factor, theres the fact that cutting a
moving object (you expect them to sit still?) might make the chain skip.
Then there's the fact that cutting through any kevlar would send kevlar
fibers right into the blade's drive mechanism, gumming it in short order.
IRL, any kevlar or heavy leather is good protection against an incidental
strike; I think real armor would stop a chainsaw dead. And they simply
CAN'T cut through hard materials, afaik. Hmm, bonelacing = treespikes?
I'd personally rate a chainsaw like a sword that uses only Flechete
ammo- 1 stage higher on unarmored slasher victims, but absolutely abysmal
(ballistic or 2x impact) on amored combatants. Swords are quite nice for
killing already- for one thing, chainsaws don't stab as well. And use the
Monowhip rules if there is a miss, just to add some fun (and realism).
As for the power gamer, just be glad he didn't ask for a mono-whip weed
whacker...

Mongoose
Message no. 16
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:30:16 CDT
>Also desired are things I can do to make this character pay for
>trying to tote one around on Shadowruns.
>(besides being a bullet-magnet & extremely loud)

How about legions of evil, satanic beast seeking his blood (anyone remember
Ash from Legion of Darkness?)

Grim Shear
"Dammit man, I thought I told you to throw the _Grenade_
not the pin." Spoken soon after telling a _really_ stupid
(and well roleplayed Troll), to pull the pin and throw it.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 17
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:44:25 EDT
In a message dated 10/6/1999 5:23:39 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
m0ng005e@*********.com writes:

> As for the power gamer, just be glad he didn't ask for a mono-whip weed
> whacker...

You should realize of course that one of the players here made their
vehicle's "Anti-Theft Mechanism" this exact concept don't you??? ;-P

-K
Message no. 18
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:55:37 -0700 (PDT)
> > Does anybody have the stats for a chainsaw?
> >
> > Also desired are things I can do to make this
character pay for trying to tote one around on
Shadowruns. (besides being a bullet-magnet & extremely
loud)
>
> Well, we had a player, once, who played a gentleman
named Holocaust [yes, yes, we should have known, now
shut up] who toted about a wood chipper. A gasoline
wood chipper. For disposing of bodies.
>
> Not only would, soon, no one work with the type of
idiot who would wheel around a wood chipper, but very
soon, no one would hire him. I mean, this is not
stable and professional behavior. It was very loud,
obvious, explosive, threatening, and distinctive. It
was also disgusting and evidentiary of some type of
very serious mental disorder.
>
> Eventually, we shot him. And then we killed his
character.

You should have just made him retire. You know, tell
him to go away and get a real job. He would've made a
GREAT chef.

*Doc' thinks he might have specialised in pasta dishes
with red sauce...*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Message no. 19
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:37:29 -0700
On Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:54:41 -0500 "Sebastian Wiers"
<m0ng005e@*********.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> As for the power gamer, just be glad he didn't ask for a mono-whip
weed
> whacker...

Ooooo!!! (For that awakened kudzu...)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
Message no. 20
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:13:35 EDT
In a message dated 10/6/99 9:28:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
fanguad@****.rit.edu writes:

> Also desired are things I can do to make this character pay for
> trying to tote one around on Shadowruns.
> (besides being a bullet-magnet & extremely loud)
>
> -Fanguad

Two words: Distintive Style....
Message no. 21
From: dbuehrer@****.org dbuehrer@****.org
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 08:18:48 -0600
Sebastian Wiers wrote:
\
\ :A chainsaw may sound like a pretty good weapon to use on a person, but I
\ :don't think it would.
\
\ Aside from the "chain suck" factor, theres the fact that cutting a
\ moving object (you expect them to sit still?) might make the chain skip.

Also, a running chainsaw behaves like a gyroscope, meaning that it's going
to be a bitch to hit a moving target. I'd set the Reach at 0 because of
it's ineffectiveness as weapon.

-David Buehrer
--
Supervisor, Database Preparation
The UnCover Company
mailto:dbuehrer@******.carl.org
--
"Be kind; for everyone is having a hard battle."
-Plato
Message no. 22
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Eeek! A Powergamer
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:32:18 +0200
According to dbuehrer@****.org, at 8:18 on 7 Oct 99, the word on
the street was...

> Also, a running chainsaw behaves like a gyroscope, meaning that it's going
> to be a bitch to hit a moving target. I'd set the Reach at 0 because of
> it's ineffectiveness as weapon.

Perhaps it would be better to keep Reach at 1, because of the chainsaw's
length, but give it a +1 TN to hit (which may work like recoil for a
firearm if you want high-Strength characters to be able to counter it).
This isn't the same as putting Reach at 0, because this way you can either
have a +0 modifier for yourself and your opponent, or give your opponent a
+1 TN while taking the same modifier yourself.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I would have it all if I'd only have this much
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Eeek! A Powergamer, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!