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Message no. 1
From: David <Mandichd@******.EDU>
Subject: Effects of Bioware on magic...
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 02:54:41 -0400
My name is David and this is my second post. I figured that it would be
more fun to be known as my street name here so refer to me as Gabriel.
Anyways, to my questoin:

I don't own the source book(s) that refer to bioware and its effects on
essence and magic. The character generaters I have for SR both show
that bioware has no effect on magic. I was just recently told that
bioware does indeed affect magic the same way that cyberware does. It
however does not affect essence. My questions then are this: First,
does bioware affect a character's magic rating? Second if it does
affect magic then why does it not affect essence? Finally, if there is
a difference between someones essence and magic, then why do they
correspond almost exactly to each other (essence loss reduces magic,
initiation increases essence and magic both)?

As I said before I'm new to this mailing list and to the SR game
itself. So any knowledge is helpful!

Gabriel
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Effects of Bioware on magic...
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:22:47 +0100
David said on 2:54/ 5 Jul 97...

> My name is David and this is my second post. I figured that it would be
> more fun to be known as my street name here so refer to me as Gabriel.

Welcome to the list :) That makes two Gabriels in a day, though (hint!) my
mailer will keep referring to you as David unless you alter the name your
mailer displays in your address.

> I don't own the source book(s) that refer to bioware and its effects on
> essence and magic.

That's covered in Shadowtech, the book that introduced bioware to the
game.

> The character generaters I have for SR both show that bioware has no
> effect on magic. I was just recently told that bioware does indeed
> affect magic the same way that cyberware does. It however does not
> affect essence. My questions then are this: First, does bioware affect
> a character's magic rating? Second if it does affect magic then why
> does it not affect essence?

To be precise, it works like this: for magicians, bioware not only adds
to the Body Index, but also costs Essence equal to its Body Cost. That
is, a magician who has no implants except for a level 1 mnemonic enhancer
(Body Cost .2) has a Body Index of .2 and an Essence of 5.8; this would
set his/her Magic Rating at 5.8 rounded down, or 5. If this magician also
has a cyberlimb (1.0 Essence cost), the stats would be Body Index .2,
Essence 4.8, and Magic 4.

However, many people use the house rule that bioware does ot cost Essence,
but does reduce the Magic Attribute _as_if_ it costs Essence. The
above-mentioned magician would have a Body Index of .2, an Essence of 6.0,
but a Magic Rating of 5. With the cyberlimb, the stats using this house
rule are Body Index .2, Essence 5.0, and Magic 4.

> Finally, if there is a difference between someones essence and magic,
> then why do they correspond almost exactly to each other (essence loss
> reduces magic, initiation increases essence and magic both)?

Initiation does NOT increase Essence; _nothing_ increases Essence, except
the Essence Drain power of vampires and other critters. The deal with
initiation is that a character's Magic Rating is equal to his or her
Essence, rounded down, plus the initiation grade, minus Magic loss (from
Deadly wounds, stim patch use, etc.).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Without lies, there'd be 100% divorce rate, a lot of discontented
children, and no advertising industry.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 3
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: Effects of Bioware on magic...
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:29:27 +0000
> My questions then are this: First,
> does bioware affect a character's magic rating? Second if it does
> affect magic then why does it not affect essence?
Bioware does not affect the Essence Rating of a Mage, it has a Body
Index Rating which says you can't get any more Bioware than you have
Body. It has effects on the magic rating though in the same manner as
Cyberware because with the Bioware another DNA is implanted into the
Mages Body.

> Finally, if there is
> a difference between someones essence and magic, then why do they
> correspond almost exactly to each other (essence loss reduces magic,
> initiation increases essence and magic both)?
Initiation does not restor Essence, it just increases the Magic
Atrribute an so can compensate effects of magic loss by deadly wounds
and Cyber- or Bioware. It also helps you get rid of some Geasa you
had to pick because of magic loss.
Again Initiotion does under no circumstances restore Essence.
Hope that helped a bit.
--Raven



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Message no. 4
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Effects of Bioware on magic...
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 09:39:35 EDT
On Sat, 5 Jul 1997 02:57:59 EST David <Mandichd@******.EDU> wrote:

<<I don't own the source book(s) that refer to bioware and its effects on
essence and magic. The character generaters I have for SR both show that
bioware has no effect on magic. I was just recently told that bioware
does indeed affect magic the same way that cyberware does. It however
does not affect essence. My questions then are this: First, does
bioware affect a character's magic rating?>>

Yes, bioware affects a character's Magic Attribute (if they have one).

<<Second if it does affect magic then why does it not affect essence?>>

Because the guys who programmed those character generators didn't manage
to put that in? Technically, bioware increases Body Index. If the
character is a magician, then it also reduces Essence, thus affecting
their Magic attribute.
<houserule>
A common house rule is that it reduces Magic _as_though_ it had reduced
Essence (Magic Rating becomes Essence-Body Index, rounded down).
</houserule>

<<Finally, if there is a difference between someones essence and magic,
then why do they correspond almost exactly to each other (essence loss
reduces magic, initiation increases essence and magic both)?>>

As at least two other people explained, Initiation does not restore
Essence, it only increases the Magic attribute (after Grade 0) and gives
access to metamagic. Nothing actually increases Essence (with the
exception of a few special cases in the form of vampires).

<<As I said before I'm new to this mailing list and to the SR game
itself. So any knowledge is helpful!>>

Well, good luck to you, I hope that has helped. It took me a while to
figure out Bioware myself. My advice is to not mess with it at all until
you can find the rules for the items in question. (for instance, did you
know that an adrenal pump can cause a heart attack? Not so attractive
now, eh?)


--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
Message no. 5
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Effects of Bioware on magic...
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 16:33:39 +0100
|
|My name is David and this is my second post. I figured that it would be
|more fun to be known as my street name here so refer to me as Gabriel.
|Anyways, to my questoin:
|
|I don't own the source book(s) that refer to bioware and its effects on
|essence and magic. The character generaters I have for SR both show
|that bioware has no effect on magic. I was just recently told that
|bioware does indeed affect magic the same way that cyberware does. It
|however does not affect essence.

That is a house rule. If you read Shadowtech, is specifically states that
Bioware DOES affect essence.

My questions then are this: First,
|does bioware affect a character's magic rating?

Only as the side effect of losing essence, but yes.

Second if it does
|affect magic then why does it not affect essence?

It does affect essence.

Finally, if there is
|a difference between someones essence and magic, then why do they
|correspond almost exactly to each other (essence loss reduces magic,
|initiation increases essence and magic both)?

Essence is fixed. You can lose it, but there is no way to raise it.
Magic can be increased by initiating. (Grimoire 2nd edition).

|As I said before I'm new to this mailing list and to the SR game
|itself. So any knowledge is helpful!

If Bull can pull himself together, I'm sure the Bull-bot will be by
shortly..... Maybe.....

|Gabriel
|


--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Effects of Bioware on magic...
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 16:44:14 +0100
|
|> My questions then are this: First,
|> does bioware affect a character's magic rating? Second if it does
|> affect magic then why does it not affect essence?

|Bioware does not affect the Essence Rating of a Mage,

I suggest you re-read the book. It does indeed cost essence.
Don't start quoting house rules at people please! It'll only confuse 'em.

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 7
From: "Shadowrun ML demon <shadowrn-ml@*******.hanse.de>"
Subject: Re: Effects of Bioware on magic...
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 10:03:41 GMT
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John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM> writes:
> Because the guys who programmed those character generators didn't manage
> to put that in? Technically, bioware increases Body Index. If the
> character is a magician, then it also reduces Essence, thus affecting
> their Magic attribute.
> <houserule>
> A common house rule is that it reduces Magic _as_though_ it had reduced
> Essence (Magic Rating becomes Essence-Body Index, rounded down).
> </houserule>

Uhm - I don't consider this a houserule, because the rules say: "the
character loses as much essence has he loses body" and "no body is
ever really lost". This implies that the essence loss due to bioware
is merely virtual as well.

Of course there has been quite a discussion about this because the
rules just can be read in two ways. So there are bascially three
positions:

1.) The rules say "Bioware costs Essence" and the rules are paramount
so we will follow them

2.) The rules say "Bioware costs Essence", but this doesn't make any
sense at all (Bioware is more intrusive than Cyberware that way and so
on) - so we create the houserule "Bioware just costs Magic".

3.) The rules say "Bioware justs costs Magic as if it had cost
essence" and this makes perfect sense.

Everyone should just pick whatever he likes the most, because this can
of worms has been opened too many times and we should not discuss this
anymore.

Later,
Georg

- --
Georg C. F. Greve <greve@*******.hanse.de>
http://porter.desy.de/~greve/
"People who fight may lose. People who do not
fight have already lost." -- Bertold Brecht

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Message no. 8
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Effects of Bioware on magic...
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 14:35:47 +0100
|Uhm - I don't consider this a houserule, because the rules say: "the
|character loses as much essence has he loses body" and "no body is
|ever really lost". This implies that the essence loss due to bioware
|is merely virtual as well.

Now that what I call pedantic.
It was badly worded yes, but it's obvious what it MEANS.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: Walker of Shadows <OABBrother@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Effects of Bioware on magic...
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:29:30 -0400
In a message dated 97-07-05 03:29:14 EDT, you write:

<< My name is David and this is my second post. I figured that it would be
more fun to be known as my street name here so refer to me as Gabriel.
Anyways, to my questoin:

I don't own the source book(s) that refer to bioware and its effects on
essence and magic. The character generaters I have for SR both show
that bioware has no effect on magic. I was just recently told that
bioware does indeed affect magic the same way that cyberware does. It
however does not affect essence. My questions then are this: First,
does bioware affect a character's magic rating? Second if it does
affect magic then why does it not affect essence? Finally, if there is
a difference between someones essence and magic, then why do they
correspond almost exactly to each other (essence loss reduces magic,
initiation increases essence and magic both)?

As I said before I'm new to this mailing list and to the SR game
itself. So any knowledge is helpful!

Gabriel
>>

Actually, the rules say that it does affect essence. But only to magical
characters, because of the same reasons that doctors can't use their high
powered sergical toys...it frags with their magic. And since their magic is
so closly related to their essence, it reduces essence the same amount as the
body cout gained, and permanantly.

Walker of Shadows

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