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From:	Strago strago@***.com
Subject:	Electro-Magnetic Pulse Questions
Date:	Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:27:27 -0700

Message no. 1 Has anyone else seen the Fox TV show Dark Angel? In it, some
organization sends the entire US back to the Dark Ages by detonating
an electro-magnetic pulse in the atmosphere. I understand the effects
of an EMP, but I have a few questions, some relating to Shadowrun.
>From what I've read, I know that an EMP is one of the side effects of
a nuclear detonation. Thus, the easiest way to set up an EMP is to
detonate a nuke above your target. I do wonder, though, if that's the
ONLY way to get an EMP.
Secondly, is there a way to localize the pulse or direct it?
Thirdly, is there only one size pulse? For instance, could you pulse
the lobby of a building but leave the upper floors with their
electronics intact?
And now for the Shadowrun questions, building on the above:
1) What would happen if someone used an EMP in downtown Seattle? Would
it knock out the corps?
2) Is there any non-corporate group which has the capability to do the
above?
3) What would happen to any deckers on the Matrix when an EMP hit?
Dump shock? Or worse?
4) Would a runner group feasibly be able to use EMP to take out
security?

--
--Strago

All Hail Apathy! Or don't. Whatever. -abortion_engine

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2+ SR3++ h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN+ SRFF W+ sa++ ma++ ad+
m+ (o++ d+) gm+ M P

From:	Matthew Bond mgb@*****.swinternet.co.uk
Subject:	Electro-Magnetic Pulse Questions
Date:	Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:37:15 +0100

Message no. 2 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Strago" <strago@***.com>
To: "ShadowRN" <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 11:27 PM
Subject: Electro-Magnetic Pulse Questions

> Has anyone else seen the Fox TV show Dark Angel? In it, some
> organization sends the entire US back to the Dark Ages by detonating
> an electro-magnetic pulse in the atmosphere. I understand the effects
> of an EMP, but I have a few questions, some relating to Shadowrun.
> From what I've read, I know that an EMP is one of the side effects of
> a nuclear detonation. Thus, the easiest way to set up an EMP is to
> detonate a nuke above your target. I do wonder, though, if that's the
> ONLY way to get an EMP.

Well, no, not in theory... but in practise it's the only way to generate
one large enough to do more than cause interference on TV's.

> Secondly, is there a way to localize the pulse or direct it?

Not that I've heard of, and definitely not from a nuke.

> Thirdly, is there only one size pulse? For instance, could you pulse
> the lobby of a building but leave the upper floors with their
> electronics intact?

Given a non-nuke EMP generator, possibly, but only in a building well
over 100m high.

> And now for the Shadowrun questions, building on the above:
> 1) What would happen if someone used an EMP in downtown Seattle? Would
> it knock out the corps?

Not necessarily. It works by inducing high voltages in sensitive
electrical equipment. This can be stopped by a Faraday cage (essentially
a fine wire mesh *completely* encasing the sensitive equipment...
including wire data paths and power cables...). Bear in mind that it has
no effect on optical systems (except in as much as they use electronics
to generate optical signals).

A shielded building *can* be devised, especially if it's power
generators are internal.
> 2) Is there any non-corporate group which has the capability to do the
> above?

Governments, terrorist organisations etc

> 3) What would happen to any deckers on the Matrix when an EMP hit?
> Dump shock? Or worse?

It would depend on how localised the effect is, what systems the Decker
is routed by, but if they are affected, then Dump Shock will probably be
the least of their worries...

Remember, almost *all* electronic equipment within the are of effect
will be useless junk afterwards (as in 'irrepairably damaged circuitry',
replacement is essential). Including Cyberware...

> 4) Would a runner group feasibly be able to use EMP to take out
> security?

I certainly wouldn't like to try it... It will just attract attention
from outside the affected area...

And expect your Street Samurai with move-by-wire, cybereyes and
cyberears to be deaf, blind and immobile...

Matt

From:	dejaffa dejaffa@*********.net
Subject:	Electro-Magnetic Pulse Questions
Date:	Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:21:41 -0000

Message no. 3 Strago said:
...
>From what I've read, I know that an EMP is one of the side effects of
>a nuclear detonation. Thus, the easiest way to set up an EMP is to
>detonate a nuke above your target. I do wonder, though, if that's the
>ONLY way to get an EMP.

Far from it. One can be generated with equipment that would fit in a van
(see Neal Stephenson's _Cryptonomicon_) with today's tech, likely with a
briefcase-sized unit by SR times. Of course, wear your lead-lined
undies...

>Secondly, is there a way to localize the pulse or direct it?

Direct it, yes.

>Thirdly, is there only one size pulse?

No. It's in proportion to energy, pure and simple.

>For instance, could you pulse the lobby of a building but leave the upper
floors with their
>electronics intact?

Theoretically, yes.

>And now for the Shadowrun questions, building on the above:
>1) What would happen if someone used an EMP in downtown Seattle? Would
>it knock out the corps?

IMCW (In My Campaign World), not likely. Because EMP's are so simple,
all significant equipment would be shielded against all but the most
powerful possible EMP.

>2) Is there any non-corporate group which has the capability to do the
>above?

Generate them, heck, yes. A SR team that includes a good
decker/rigger/mechanic type could generate EMP's. Generate EMP's that'll
knock out a corp, not easily at any rate.

>3) What would happen to any deckers on the Matrix when an EMP hit?
>Dump shock? Or worse?

Ouch. A powerful enough one, if the decker was hit by the actual EMP,
could do nasty stuff.

An EMP that actually took out a Matrix host wold cause dump shock or
worse to a decker, I'd say. Picture the Matrix suddenly going . . .
sideways, as parts of the host are destroyed and others are distorted.

>4) Would a runner group feasibly be able to use EMP to take out
>security?

IMCW, no, because of shielded systems. In other campaign worlds, who
knows?

Dejaffa

From:	Oliver McDonald oliver@*********.com
Subject:	Electro-Magnetic Pulse Questions
Date:	Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:07:26 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 4 On Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:27:27 -0700, Strago wrote:

>From what I've read, I know that an EMP is one of the side effects of
>a nuclear detonation. Thus, the easiest way to set up an EMP is to
>detonate a nuke above your target. I do wonder, though, if that's the
>ONLY way to get an EMP.

Or you can discharge a megafarad capacitor through a kilohenry coil. The only problem is
that a megafarad capacitor would
be about the size of Alberta (or 1/3 to 1/2 of Texas).

-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://www.spydernet.com/oliver/
-----------------------------------------------------------
Space. The Final Frontier. Let's not close it down.
Brought to you via CyberSpace, the recursive frontier.

"that is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may
die."
-H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu."

ICQ: 38158540

From:	Oliver McDonald oliver@*********.com
Subject:	Electro-Magnetic Pulse Questions
Date:	Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:08:57 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 5 On Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:27:27 -0700, Strago wrote:

>1) What would happen if someone used an EMP in downtown Seattle? Would
>it knock out the corps?

Nope. Most of the computers etc in Shadowrun are optically based. EMP has no effect.

>2) Is there any non-corporate group which has the capability to do the
>above?

Any of the big ones could conceivably obtain a nuclear device (bomb).

>3) What would happen to any deckers on the Matrix when an EMP hit?
>Dump shock? Or worse?

None. See above.

>4) Would a runner group feasibly be able to use EMP to take out
>security?

No.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://www.spydernet.com/oliver/
-----------------------------------------------------------
Space. The Final Frontier. Let's not close it down.
Brought to you via CyberSpace, the recursive frontier.

"that is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may
die."
-H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu."

ICQ: 38158540

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	Electro-Magnetic Pulse Questions
Date:	Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:17:18 +0200

Message no. 6 According to Oliver McDonald, at 22:08 on 22 Oct 00, the word on the
street was...

> >1) What would happen if someone used an EMP in downtown Seattle? Would
> >it knock out the corps?
>
> Nope. Most of the computers etc in Shadowrun are optically based. EMP
> has no effect.

Except for their power supplies. Unless you want to operate your computer
only in front of a window during the day, you're going to need something
to generate those optical signals, which would be using electrical
equipment -- in turn, that's sensitive to EMPs, though it could be
shielded as described in another post.

> >3) What would happen to any deckers on the Matrix when an EMP hit?
> >Dump shock? Or worse?
>
> None. See above.

They would be dumped if the deck's power supply quits, so I would say yes,
they do get dumpshock.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It was a warning shot that missed.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject:	Electro-Magnetic Pulse Questions
Date:	Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:14:17 +1100

Message no. 7 Records show that at 21:21 on Sunday 22/10/00, dejaffa scribbled:
>Strago said:
> >From what I've read, I know that an EMP is one of the side effects of
> >a nuclear detonation. Thus, the easiest way to set up an EMP is to
> >detonate a nuke above your target. I do wonder, though, if that's the
> >ONLY way to get an EMP.
>
>Far from it. One can be generated with equipment that would fit in a van
>(see Neal Stephenson's _Cryptonomicon_) with today's tech, likely with a
>briefcase-sized unit by SR times. Of course, wear your lead-lined
>undies...

For example one type, the "Explosively Pumped Helical Flux Compression
Generator", consists of a heavy wire coil (an inductor) with an air core,
and a conductive tube filled with high explosive in the center. To operate,
a current is first set up running through the coil. (The higher the
current, the stronger the magnetic field, the better the result.) Once the
current is established, the high explosive tube is detonated at one end.
The exploding tube makes a connection between one end of the coil, and with
whatever sort of EMP emission device you may have. The explosion then very
rapidly runs down the length of the coil, making a sort of "sliding short"
that almost immediately dumps all of the energy stored in the coil as a
high-voltage pulse. Carbon fiber reinforcing would be used to keep the
outer coil from being torn apart before all of its energy had been
dumped. The generator is, obviously, destroyed in this process.

There is a good explanation of these devices (with diagrams) on the web
page: http://www.infowar.com/mil_c4i/mil_c4i8.html-ssi

Quote -
"The FCG is a device capable of producing electrical energies of tens of
MegaJoules in tens to hundreds of microseconds of time, in a relatively
compact package. With peak power levels of the order of TeraWatts to tens
of TeraWatts, FCGs may be used directly, or as one shot pulse power
supplies for microwave tubes. To place this in perspective, the current
produced by a large FCG is between ten to a thousand times greater than
that produced by a typical lightning stroke."

Rumor and educated guesswork suggests that operational systems weigh in at
~500 kg and produce an EMP sufficient to disable unhardened electronics out
to several hundred meters or even more. Once only, for obvious reasons...

> >And now for the Shadowrun questions, building on the above:
> >1) What would happen if someone used an EMP in downtown Seattle? Would
> >it knock out the corps?
>
>IMCW (In My Campaign World), not likely. Because EMP's are so simple,
>all significant equipment would be shielded against all but the most
>powerful possible EMP.

Anything with hardened or military-specification electronics should be very
resistant to EMP.

> >2) Is there any non-corporate group which has the capability to do the
> >above?
>
>Generate them, heck, yes. A SR team that includes a good
>decker/rigger/mechanic type could generate EMP's. Generate EMP's that'll
>knock out a corp, not easily at any rate.

Capability to do it - yes, many. Want to do it, the crazy few. It'll
probably only hurt ordinary folk, and just irritate the corps and other
organizations.

> >3) What would happen to any deckers on the Matrix when an EMP hit?
> >Dump shock? Or worse?
>
>Ouch. A powerful enough one, if the decker was hit by the actual EMP,
>could do nasty stuff.

Dump shock, as the power-supply shorted. There'll be no EMP induced
current; not down an optical fibre.

> >4) Would a runner group feasibly be able to use EMP to take out
> >security?
>
>IMCW, no, because of shielded systems. In other campaign worlds, who
>knows?

NIMC where EMP resistance is a consequence of basic systems hardening in
any secured system.

Chris

From:	Andrew Murdoch toreador@***.bc.ca
Subject:	Electro-Magnetic Pulse Questions
Date:	Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:07:13 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 8 - Oliver McDonald <22:08/22-Oct-2000>

> >1) What would happen if someone used an EMP in downtown Seattle? Would
> >it knock out the corps?
>
> Nope. Most of the computers etc in Shadowrun are optically based. EMP has no
effect.
>
> >3) What would happen to any deckers on the Matrix when an EMP hit?
> >Dump shock? Or worse?
>
> None. See above.

I beg to differ. The majority of the data circuitry that runs the Matrix,
telecoms, computers, legal cyberterminals and cyberdecks is optical, but
not so their power supplies. They'd fry, you'd get dumped, but at least
the repairs to your deck won't be catastrophic to recover from.

--
Hail, Centurion!
Andrew C. Murdoch
toreador@***.bc.ca
http://members.xoom.com/corvisraven

From:	JS Bracher JSBracher@**************.net
Subject:	Electro-Magnetic Pulse Questions
Date:	Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:23:30 -0700

Message no. 9 Re: Creating an EMP

An EMP is just a surge of charged particles. Okay, a very large surge
of charged particles. There are a number of ways to do this. The best
for causing targeted damage to localized systems is a MASER. This is
sort of a microwave laser. It can do damage to both organic tissue and
electronics. The amount, range, and spread vary with the power and
generation system.

MASERs are real-world tech in use today. If you look around for info on
them, you should be able to turn up as much as you need.

Most MASERs in use today are for communication. At low power they do a
good job of signal transmission. But if you up the voltage, you can
make the sparks fly. Literally.

With today's tech, a Van-sized MASER would take out all the electronics
along the beam path, possibly for several city blocks. The problem
would be arcing to the van metal, sparks as the beam hit anything
conductive, etc. This would not be a subtle weapon.

The damage results from the targeted electronics suddenly having much
more voltage than they were built to handle. Imagine hooking a fire
hose up to your home plumbing. Water would start spurting from
everywhere as pipes broke. (Actually, I do not know if this would
happen to home plumbing, but it makes for a useful image).

You can hear an EMP if you have your radio on during a lightning storm.
The burst of static is an EMP. This is why turning off all sensitive
electronics is a good idea. It disconnects the gear from the electrical
grid (so lightning that strikes the grid won't surge down the power
lines and fry the TV, a friend lost a computer that way), and reduces
the power in the circuits, so any additional power from the EMP is less
likely to overload them.

As for the Matrix, all electromagnetic systems would fail. Those
nearby, but suffering less voltage, would suffer static. Optical
systems would be fine, unless any metal in the optical systems sparked
and caused damage to the optical fibers and optical switches. I suspect
there would be a lot of techs doing component replacement.

If a node were electromagnetic, the Matrix view of the event might be
the equivalent of a nova. The node would flare as the power surge
overloaded it. Sort of the Matrix version of "rockets bursting in
air". But optical systems would just shut down as power failed or
components melted. You might get limited scaring: the optical fibers
would not be completely transparent, but would have localized defects,
reducing signal transmission range and signal clarity.

A friend of a friend was (I'm told) in Hawaii during some of the last
nuclear air burst tests over the Pacific. The generated EMPs were
generated quite a distance away, but it made the light bulbs color
fluctuate. Suddenly you were seeing a rainbow shine out from the light
fixture.

Military hardware is hardened against EMPs. The Air Force has a large
hanger they put gear in and then generate large, localized EMPs to test
equipment survivability. I suspect the Navy and Army have something
too.

As mentioned in a post from someone else, you can build a Faraday cage
to protect electronics. It's a metal cage around equipment that absorbs
and grounds the pulse. It's the full-protection version of a lightning
rod, and works in a very similar way.

Answering the points below-

1) Corps should not be taken out by this. Most off-line mass storage we
use today would be fine. This would not affect CDROMs. Disk drives
would become scrap or scrambled. Anything backed up should be fine,
anything not backed up might be lost. The Corps have to buy some new
tech, but can then reload data from backups, and then have to recreate
all the lost data. A major cost, but not terminal unless they were on
the edge anyway and could not cover the expense.

Most of the damage would be to civilians. All Walkman's, PDAs, cell
phones, etc. would be scrap. Major Corp stuff should be hardened.
Equipment in offices would probably be toast, but main servers might be
protected.

2) We can build these things today. All you need is a moderate amount
of cash and a bored physics major. Major EMPs just need a much bigger
check.

3) Others have answered this well.

4) EMPs should take out all security devices that are electromagnetic.
All remote cameras, sensors, etc. The optical network might be fine,
but the metal in the equipment is going to be struck by lightning.
Security personal should immediately notice the major systems failure.
The security teams might not be able to communicate with each other, but
there would be as large a response as they can muster. Magical
resources should be fine.

An intrusion team would need to be hardened against EMPs, protected from
it (like in a 'Faraday Cage' van), or not use equipment subject to EMPs,
or not in the beam path if a MASER is used. This would be a great way
for a mage or shaman to take out samurai.

Strago wrote:
>
> Has anyone else seen the Fox TV show Dark Angel? In it, some
> organization sends the entire US back to the Dark Ages by detonating
> an electro-magnetic pulse in the atmosphere. I understand the effects
> of an EMP, but I have a few questions, some relating to Shadowrun.
> >From what I've read, I know that an EMP is one of the side effects of
> a nuclear detonation. Thus, the easiest way to set up an EMP is to
> detonate a nuke above your target. I do wonder, though, if that's the
> ONLY way to get an EMP.
> Secondly, is there a way to localize the pulse or direct it?
> Thirdly, is there only one size pulse? For instance, could you pulse
> the lobby of a building but leave the upper floors with their
> electronics intact?
> And now for the Shadowrun questions, building on the above:
> 1) What would happen if someone used an EMP in downtown Seattle? Would
> it knock out the corps?
> 2) Is there any non-corporate group which has the capability to do the
> above?
> 3) What would happen to any deckers on the Matrix when an EMP hit?
> Dump shock? Or worse?
> 4) Would a runner group feasibly be able to use EMP to take out
> security?
>
> --
> --Strago
>
> All Hail Apathy! Or don't. Whatever. -abortion_engine
>
> SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2+ SR3++ h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN+ SRFF W+ sa++ ma++ ad+
> m+ (o++ d+) gm+ M P

From:	Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject:	Electro-Magnetic Pulse Questions
Date:	Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:10:07 -0400

Message no. 10 Ollie wrote:
> Nope. Most of the computers etc in Shadowrun are optically
> based. EMP has no effect.
>

I imagine that a large portion is optical, but electricity must still play a
part in the device on some level (especially for basic power). In most
optical devices today electrical devices are used to generate the signal
(lighting an LED or a more powerful Laser Diode) and the optics transport
the signal to another electrical device which converts the signal back. I
also think that certain program references, such as Sparky or Black Hammer
actually reference using the electrical systems in the deck to harm the
Decker. If the systems were totally optical then the deckers would be immune
from lethal biofeedback as there would be no power to hit them with (I think
my Decking info is accurate, but it is definitely not my strong suit, so
someone else can correct me if I'm wrong). So even if all of the
communication of signals is optic there must still be basic power, which an
EMP would definitely damage. SR3 also does not talk about new technology in
power (except for the magic of bioelectricity for cyberware) so I can't see
electricity being gone.

;)

Smilin' Jack

Franklin Isshinryu School of Karate
http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/RallyRd/mlfrankl/fiskhome.htm

From:	Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject:	Electro-Magnetic Pulse Questions
Date:	Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:10:09 -0400

Message no. 11 Oliver sayeth:
> Or you can discharge a megafarad capacitor through a kilohenry
> coil. The only problem is that a megafarad capacitor would
> be about the size of Alberta (or 1/3 to 1/2 of Texas).

We use a 1F (Farad) cap in a product for a battery back up. It's about the
size of 5 quarters stacked. If you took 1 million of them (in parallel) and
with an acceptable working voltage it would probably only be the size of a
large building (or maybe even less if really well planned) and you could get
your megaFarad cap.

;)

Smilin' Jack

Franklin Isshinryu School of Karate
http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/RallyRd/mlfrankl/fiskhome.htm

From:	Charles S Remis cremis@******.net
Subject:	Electro-Magnetic Pulse Questions
Date:	Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:06:56 -0500

Message no. 12 Various others wrote:

> > >From what I've read, I know that an EMP is one of the side effects of
> > >a nuclear detonation. Thus, the easiest way to set up an EMP is to
> > >detonate a nuke above your target. I do wonder, though, if that's the
> > >ONLY way to get an EMP.
> >
> >Far from it. One can be generated with equipment that would fit in a van
> >(see Neal Stephenson's _Cryptonomicon_) with today's tech, likely with a
> >briefcase-sized unit by SR times. Of course, wear your lead-lined
> >undies...

I don't know about an EMP large enough to affect a city, but
police in the USA are currently using two varieties of EMP
devices to stop car chases. The first looks like a flat board
about 2'x4' which is placed on the road before the vehicle.
The second, and vastly more interesting, is called the "Rocket",
and is a rocket propelled miniature car mounted on the
front of a police vehicle and fired at the target vehicle.
It moves straight forward, at about 20 mph faster than the
pursuing car, and can catch a car up to 7 cars ahead. Both
of the devices fire an EMP powerful enough to fry the
electronics the target vehicle up into the vehicle over them
without affecting nearby vehicles.

Regards,

CSR

From:	Paul Collins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject:	Electro-Magnetic Pulse Questions
Date:	Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:04:25 +1000

Message no. 13 > I don't know about an EMP large enough to affect a city, but
> police in the USA are currently using two varieties of EMP
> devices to stop car chases. The first looks like a flat board
> about 2'x4' which is placed on the road before the vehicle.
> The second, and vastly more interesting, is called the "Rocket",
> and is a rocket propelled miniature car mounted on the
> front of a police vehicle and fired at the target vehicle.
> It moves straight forward, at about 20 mph faster than the
> pursuing car, and can catch a car up to 7 cars ahead. Both
> of the devices fire an EMP powerful enough to fry the
> electronics the target vehicle up into the vehicle over them
> without affecting nearby vehicles.
>

>From memory, these 2 devices use feelers to deliver high voltage shocks
directly into the vehicle's chasis.

Annachie

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