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Message no. 1
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Elf/Dwarf Transforms, Part 3 (was RE: Breeder definition)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:32:42 -0600
From: Jordan
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:58 AM

>> >> ... Were there transformation into elves and dwarves to start
>> >> with?
>> >
>> >Nope..they are born that way..or existed prior to the awakening..
>>
>> Okay. Now give me chapter and verse....
>
>*Clears his throat with an ausible 'Ahem.'*

Ah, hell. Here we go again....

<snips a large chunk of text from the rulebook which I'd already read>

>[SNIP the rest of the article, which deals with gov'ts dealing
>with (meta) humanity, and the rest of the book, which deals with
>everything else, and you should go buy, if you haven't already.
>*stern look at the gentleman who asked for this*]

Yeah; I had the same kind of discussion back in 1990 when I started playing
SR1. What gives you the (incorrect and foolish) notion that I haven't read
this?

And if you want to make friends and influence people, don't be so fucking
condescending next time. All it does is piss me off, and that makes me
really hard to deal with. I can be really bull-headed when I'm pissed off.

>There....is the rulebook Canon enough, and is this versed enough for
>you? I don't mind doing this, but the meaty part of my left hand is
>now cramped. Please look these things up on your own.

Again, I ask: What is it that makes you think I haven't? All that stuff
you quoted, which I've read many times before in many of its incarnations
(all of them, in fact, if memory serves), does not conclusively tell me that
elf/dwarf transformations did not take place. It tells me that they could
have and the rest of the world really had other things to worry about at the
time, but at no point does it say that they didn't occur.

>Now then, with that said, that is all that I found on metahumanity
>in the history section of the book, and it mentioned nothing about
>dwarves of elves transforming at puberty, or anything of the kind.

Precisely my point. Why did you bother dragging it out, then?

>FASA may have the demographics wrong, but who cares? They've done
>enough already.

I do. And I know I'm not the only one. It happens to be one of the things
I pay attention to, and it figures into my game a lot.

>Your answer to the argument in your group: *SMACK* the person
>in your group who said that they goblinized over the head with
>this email....and a carp, just for the fun of it :)

Sorry, I'm not into self-abuse (or maybe I am, if some of the things I get
involved in on this list are any indication). I *am* the one who brought it
up in my group.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 2
From: Dvixen dvixen@****.com
Subject: Elf/Dwarf Transforms, Part 3 (was RE: Breeder definition)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:20:58 -0800
At 09:32 AM 2/18/99 , Patrick Goodman annoyed me by writing:

>And if you want to make friends and influence people, don't be so fucking
>condescending next time. All it does is piss me off, and that makes me
>really hard to deal with. I can be really bull-headed when I'm pissed off.

Speaking of making friends and influeing people, you are doing neither. Now
go sit in the corner until you can react a little less bull headed.

Now. Back to the topic at hand.

***Who goblinizes?***

Page 24 of SR3 second chapter.
UGE babies are dubbed Elves and Dwarves. Summed up as some babies are
simply being born 'different'.

Page 28 of SR3 Under Goblinization.
One out of every 10 suddenly becomes what are later called Orks and Trolls.

Nowhere in any book do I have (and that is most of them, save for the SR1
rule book) does it ever say that Dwarves and Elves are the result of
Goblinization. But I do recall references that Elven and Dwarven UGE, as
well as Troll and Ork Goblinizations, are becoming increasingly rare the
further from the awakening the world gets.

There is one novel that referred to a dwarven goblinization, and when I
asked the author about it, he said 'oops' (Or soemthing to that effect.) So
I go on the idea that that was simply a mistake that many have made
(including myself) that dwarves and Elves goblinize.

In my version of SR, they are born, and connot goblinize from human into
either Elf or Dwarf.

I did have semi-official confirmation that Elves and Dwarves were born, not
goblinized. However, it got lost when my copmuter decided that 1/10th of my
boot drive wasn't worth using any longer.

As for the IE, evidence from other books indicates they were able to pass
as human, and did not 'goblinize' but simply were able to begin using their
true forms once again. Whether they hid, or used some of their preciously
rare magic, or who knows, is another debate. I simply rule that they hid
and any that were seen with pointy ears wopuld simply have given rise the
the current (in SR terms) myths of the faries in SR.

Earthdawn has not been stated to be the canon historical world of SR,
simply because the different DLOH's had differing ideas on that line of
thought. The current one doesn't seem to be a fan of the 'Earthdawn is
prehistoric SR' type thinking.... ;)




--
Dvixen - dvixen@********.com - dvixen@****.com
Herkimer's Lair - http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair
"What's your sign?" - "Trespassers will be shot."
Comments/Questions accepted, flames dropped into the abyss.
Message no. 3
From: Jordan findlerman@*****.com
Subject: Elf/Dwarf Transforms, Part 3 (was RE: Breeder definition)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:47:21 -0800 (PST)
>
> Speaking of making friends and influeing people, you are doing
neither. Now
> go sit in the corner until you can react a little less bull headed.
>
> Now. Back to the topic at hand.

I apologize that the voice in my response had some problems IRL
bleeding through. It caused a small problem, which I hate being
resposible for. Do you know if Patrick "Texas 2 Step" has replied to
the list after this morning? I sent him a form of an apology, but he
may have filtered me out. *grumblegrumble* Sucks that you can't even
apologize for any unintended insults with filters that prevent you
from making them. *grumble.more*

> There is one novel that referred to a dwarven goblinization, and
when I
> asked the author about it, he said 'oops' (Or soemthing to that
effect.) So
> I go on the idea that that was simply a mistake that many have made
> (including myself) that dwarves and Elves goblinize.

What novel was this? I am just curious, and am a collector of them...

> I did have semi-official confirmation that Elves and Dwarves were
born, not
> goblinized. However, it got lost when my copmuter decided that
1/10th of my
> boot drive wasn't worth using any longer.

What OS are you running on?
I recently had the same problem, but i beleive that it is a
hardware/Windows 98 compatiblity problem, and Windows 98 isn't stable
enough to handle it.

> As for the IE,

Do you remember what they did about the ears?

--Fin
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 4
From: Dvixen dvixen@****.com
Subject: Elf/Dwarf Transforms, Part 3 (was RE: Breeder definition)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:04:58 -0800
At 12:47 PM 2/18/99 , Jordan annoyed me by writing:
>> There is one novel that referred to a dwarven goblinization, and
>when I
>> asked the author about it, he said 'oops' (Or soemthing to that
>effect.) So [snippet]

>What novel was this? I am just curious, and am a collector of them...

I wish I could recall. I'm in the process of re reading some, but I haven't
come across it agin.

>> I did have semi-official confirmation that Elves and Dwarves were
>born, not
>> goblinized. However, it got lost when my copmuter decided that
>1/10th of my
>> boot drive wasn't worth using any longer.

>What OS are you running on?

Irrelevant. Memory chip popped and fried the active hard drive.

>> As for the IE,
>
>Do you remember what they did about the ears?

First answer:
- They hid them?

Second answer:
- Nope, or I would have mentioned that too. The authors seem to just gloss
over it in the relevant novels. ;)
--
Dvixen - dvixen@********.com - dvixen@****.com
Herkimer's Lair - http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair
"What's your sign?" - "Trespassers will be shot."
Comments/Questions accepted, flames dropped into the abyss.
Message no. 5
From: Shaun E. Gilroy shaung@**********.net
Subject: Elf/Dwarf Transforms, Part 3 (was RE: Breeder definition)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:09:12 -0500
At 12:47 PM 2/18/99 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> As for the IE,
>
>Do you remember what they did about the ears?

Based on lack of info, I had always just assumed that the IE lost their
elven features while the mana was too low to sustain such cosmetics. But
If anyone knows that one, I'd be interested in the knowledge.


>--Fin
>

Shaun Gilroy [shaung@**********.net]
Online Technologies Corp.
Message no. 6
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Elf/Dwarf Transforms, Part 3 (was RE: Breeder definition)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:02:00 -0600
>I apologize that the voice in my response had some problems IRL
>bleeding through. It caused a small problem, which I hate being
>resposible for. Do you know if Patrick "Texas 2 Step" has replied
>to the list after this morning?

Not to any of these threads. And don't ask what my regular, non-list, inbox
looks like right now. There's a *bunch* of email in there, though most of
it appears to be some bad jokes from my sister-in-law.

>I sent him a form of an apology, but he may have filtered me out.

I don't filter people unless they *really* piss me off.

Apology accepted (I just noticed the private message you sent me in my main
inbox).

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

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