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Message no. 1
From: Theobalt Nolasco <theobalt@*******.COM>
Subject: Elven Martial Arts
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 14:06:31 -0600
The elven martial arts style known as carromeleg (defined on the
Sperethiel Glossary Key, page 67 of the TT sourcebook) is not explained
as to what types techniques used for attacks and defence. I have an
elven physad who took carromeleg as a concentration his unarmed combat
and he is wondering if it's anything like other more common forms of
martial arts such as karate, kung-fu or judo... Does anyone have any
suggestions, comments, OR even descriptions of this little known SR elven
martial art?

Carnage
Message no. 2
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Elven Martial Arts
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 21:43:12 BST
> The elven martial arts style known as carromeleg (defined on the
> Sperethiel Glossary Key, page 67 of the TT sourcebook) is not explained
> as to what types techniques used for attacks and defence. I have an
> elven physad who took carromeleg as a concentration his unarmed combat
> and he is wondering if it's anything like other more common forms of
> martial arts such as karate, kung-fu or judo... Does anyone have any
> suggestions, comments, OR even descriptions of this little known SR elven
> martial art?

To be honest, chummer, I alwyas thought it was more like a zen/magic battle
type of thing, in that you couldn't actually perform half of it unless you
were a full-blood mage.

Odds are, this amrtial art is a carry on from the fourth age, and that
the elves who teach it are Ehran, and the rest.

There are probably three components to the complete form, the physical,
martial parts (which they may teach to mundane pixies, but NOT too
humans, etc), the meditational side (isn't their an elven expression for
Satoria or Zazen? You know, enlightment, meditation, no-mind), and the
magical side to it.

Don't challengers start off in two separate magical cricles or something?

Am I babbling too much?


Phil (Renegade)

Didn't you ask this before, and nobody bit?
Message no. 3
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Elven Martial Arts
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 13:55:26 -0700
Hmm, the two elves probably face each other and try to pummel each other
with their massive egos.

j/k, smiley, etc.
Message no. 4
From: cocheese <ZKLJ1@****.EAST-TENN-ST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elven Martial Arts
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 17:48:24 EDT
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hmm, the two elves probably face each other and try to pummel each other
> with their massive egos.
j/k, smiley, etc.
Or by using more "long forgotten" elven "lore" (read the elven
language for
starters).
Actually, it's probably karate or something but since elves do it and they
have a pseudo language, it's "really" an ancient elven art of combat.
CoCheese
Message no. 5
From: Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elven Martial Arts
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 16:46:21 -0700
On Tue, 6 Jun 1995, Theobalt Nolasco wrote:

> The elven martial arts style known as carromeleg (defined on the
> Sperethiel Glossary Key, page 67 of the TT sourcebook) is not explained
> as to what types techniques used for attacks and defence. I have an
> elven physad who took carromeleg as a concentration his unarmed combat
> and he is wondering if it's anything like other more common forms of
> martial arts such as karate, kung-fu or judo... Does anyone have any
> suggestions, comments, OR even descriptions of this little known SR elven
> martial art?

Well, according to the Sperethiel glossary one of the roots in
the word "carromeleg" means "to maintain a condition" (I believe it's
the
carro part; "carronasto" maintain silence) and the "meleg" part means
"stillness" or something like that. Taken together the focus on the art
is stillness; which sounds to me as if it is more an internal style
martial art (like Tai Chi) rather than an external art, such as Karate
(in its various forms). Additionally, the older martial arts systems
from China and India have a lot of emphasis on motion and movement rather
than particular attack sequences.
If one wanted to use the Wing Chun principle of economy, then one
might say this art relies on a single, fatal strike from a relatively
static position. There are also several Chinese styles that rely on
stillness as an advantage on the principle that one cannot easily keep
visual focus on a static opponent. Therefore, an attacker automatically
surrenders the advantage. Perhaps mystical symbols similiar to kuji-kiri
or kalaripayit would also be employed.
Of course, I'm an Air/Water type martial artist myself, so I
value mobility highly. And lightly built elves would do well to leave
Earth/Fire type systems for Orcs and Trolls, but that's another tale.
Just like the ludicrous development of a Tai Chi type combat
system from Klingons(!) in ST:TNG. Ah, well.

>
> Carnage
>

========================================================================
Adam Getchell "Invincibility is in oneself,
acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu vulnerability in the opponent."
http://instruction.ucdavis.edu/html/getchell.html
Message no. 6
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Elven Martial Arts
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 14:03:53 +0100
On Tue, 6 Jun 1995, Theobalt Nolasco wrote:

> The elven martial arts style known as carromeleg (defined on the
> Sperethiel Glossary Key, page 67 of the TT sourcebook) is not explained
> as to what types techniques used for attacks and defence. I have an
> elven physad who took carromeleg as a concentration his unarmed combat
> and he is wondering if it's anything like other more common forms of
> martial arts such as karate, kung-fu or judo... Does anyone have any
> suggestions, comments, OR even descriptions of this little known SR elven
> martial art?
I'm trying to get ideas for this myself (I have a couple of maneuvers of
Carromeleg on my WWW site), but I can't remember anything in any rule
books, although one of my players said there was something in one of the
first three SR novels where two characters at Prof Laverty's place face
off and drop into Carromeleg stances -I don't remember it myself though.

I personally see Carromeleg as focussing on speed and agility- perhaps
with similarities to Aikido and Cappoera (sp?), I definitely don't see it
as getting in close with teh target and grappling like Judo.

If you do come up with any decent manuevers please email me them.

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
Shadowrun Web Site under construction at
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 7
From: Niels Broberg <ncb@***.KU.DK>
Subject: Re: Elven Martial Arts
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 15:52:46 +0100
>On Wed 7 Jun 1995, The Digital Mage wrote :

>I'm trying to get ideas for this myself (I have a couple of maneuvers of
>Carromeleg on my WWW site), but I can't remember anything in any rule
>books, although one of my players said there was something in one of the
>first three SR novels where two characters at Prof Laverty's place face
>off and drop into Carromeleg stances -I don't remember it myself though.
>

As far as I can recall it's in the third novel by Robert N. Charrete
I haven't got the book with me now, but I can bring it tomorrow, unless
someone else got it handy I think the section _I'M_ thinking about is near
the picture
where an black elf stands, pointing his finger at the Dodger lying on a
couch with a girl sitting next to him.

bye for now,

Niels Broberg - ncb@***.ku.dk
Message no. 8
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Elven Martial Arts
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 15:54:33 +0100
On Wed, 7 Jun 1995, Niels Broberg wrote:

> As far as I can recall it's in the third novel by Robert N. Charrete
> I haven't got the book with me now, but I can bring it tomorrow, unless
> someone else got it handy I think the section _I'M_ thinking about is near
> the picture
> where an black elf stands, pointing his finger at the Dodger lying on a
> couch with a girl sitting next to him.
>
Yeah that sounds about right. My player said its the girl who is trying
to protect Dodger who stands up to the other elf by slipping into a
Carromeleg stance. The black elf then settles into his Carromeleg stance
and the girl realises that he is much better than her just from him
getting into stance. She realises she is going to lose and maybe die and
so relaxes. The black elf sees her relax and thinks because of that teh
fight will be a little harder.

At least that was what my player said :)

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
Shadowrun Web Site under construction at
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 9
From: Andy Butcher <Fiend@*********.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Elven Martial Arts
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 11:05:12 +0100
Carnage wrote:
> The elven martial arts style known as carromeleg (defined on the
>Sperethiel Glossary Key, page 67 of the TT sourcebook) is not explained
>as to what types techniques used for attacks and defence. I have an
>elven physad who took carromeleg as a concentration his unarmed combat
>and he is wondering if it's anything like other more common forms of
>martial arts such as karate, kung-fu or judo... Does anyone have any
>suggestions, comments, OR even descriptions of this little known SR elven
>martial art?

Okay, here's what it says in the thrid ShadowRun novel, Find Your Own Truth.
If this violates copywrite and such, I'm awfully sorry ;) Urdli (the
Australian Elf) wants to unhook Dodger from his life support. Theresa
O'Connor is afraid that doing so will throw him into a coma:

"I will take the risk."
"Damn it! It's not your risk to take!"
"Makkanagee morkhan, I will do it myself." As Urdli took the first
step into the room, O'Connor came from behind the couch to place herself
between him and the decker. By the defensive stance she took, he saw how apt
was the name he had called her, for her Shatatain stance showed her well
below his own competence in the art of Carromeleg. "Laverty does not oppose
me. By standing in my way, you break your bond as milessaratish, staining
his honour while gaining none for yourself. You will fall."
"I'm not milessaratish, so leave the professor out of it. This is
between you and me. I won't let you touch Dodger."
Her defiance was annoying. "By denying the bond to Laverty, you
remove constraint from me. Out of consideration to him I might have only
incapacitated you, but now you have offended me with your opposition. You
cannot stop me. You can buy only the slightest delay with your life."
He took his stance, and he saw in her eyes the realization that
shewas indeed facing a superior. Surprisingly her rigidity slackened into a
more natural defensive posture. That would make her a more difficult
conquest, but though delayed, the outcome would be the same. He slid forward
a pace and studied her non-reaction. More difficult indeed. The appreciation
of imminent death had brought her to zathien. Her unresolved stillness of
spirit offered danger and unpredictable responses. He centered himself,
seeking his own grasp of zathien from which to answer her. In the face of
her resolution, the completeness eluded him. He slid forward another pace,
determined to overmatch her transcendental state with his skill.
The clash never began.
"What's going on?"
Urdli slid back from engagement range before turning to face the
newly arrived Estios. O'Connor relaxed, too, but her breathing was rapid,
speeded by the adrenaline coursing in her system. The interuption had
disrupted her zathien. She would be no serious hinderance to Urdli now.

There you have it. Sounds very Zen, doesn't it? I think the earlier
reference by someone to Tai Chi wasn't far off...

Andy Butcher | "Whether you think you will succeed
PC Gamer Magazine | or not, you are right."
Fiend@*********.co.uk | Henry Ford

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