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Message no. 1
From: Darth Vader <j07c@***.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Elves rule!!!
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 14:08:13 +0100
Ok I've had it, I am sick and tired of hearing how FASA
gives elves all the priviledges and the advantages
and how the other races are geting the shit end of the deal.
All I have to say is - its high time someone had the guts to do this.
Elves (in most rpgs) are treated like flower loving faggots that
are good for nothing but getting fragged from the rest of the world
(see humans). The way elves are treated in SR is one of the things
that attracted me to this wonderfull game, elves like Ehran,
Surehand, Liam O'Connor are elves that follow the true Tolkienian
tradition. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against dwarves
orks or trolls, I have actually played as many trolls as elves
(I currently play 2 trolls in PBMs Dave-Bryan :) I find them
interesting exactly because they have to face this bias against
them. And who said that they can't make good magicians, one
of my players plays a dwarven magician (7 willpower+incr.will.4)
with 11 willpower - now that is power.

PS. It was not my intension to insult anyone, I just needed to get this
out of my system. And my apologies about the reference to 'faggots'
its just the frustration I accumulated by playing elves showing itself.
--
Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong!
Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall.
That is the way of things ... the way of the Force.

GCS -d+@ -p+(---) c+++ l++ u+++ e+ m++(-) s+/ !n(---) h*(+) f+ !g w+ t+ r++ y?
Message no. 2
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves rule!!!
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 09:27:43 -0500
Elves typically get portrayed as short little people with pointy ears and wings.

Sorry, folks, this is bullshit.

I think that SR's race (if anyone is offended, I apologize for the use of the
term) system works -quite- well...IMHO, metahumans are a bit *too* expensive.
Message no. 3
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves rule!!!
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 11:38:03 -0500
> I think that SR's race (if anyone is offended, I apologize for the
> use of the term) system works -quite- well...IMHO, metahumans are a
> bit *too* expensive.

Admittedly, I find the system to MAKE one pretty silly. It just doesn't
make sense that an elf can't be as rich as everyone else (my solution: take
away the race priority, or else force allergies instead...mainly, if you can
justify it, it's probably OK.) Especially when, in the books, there are some
that are MEGA-rich...

Even though I play elves occasionally, I can still see why they're
HATED in SRII. They're TOO powerful. And everyone's jealous. People just
want to kill the elves.

They'll probably get knocked down a little if there's ever another
war...

-------------Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@********.uni.uiuc.edu-------------
"He's NOT a gibbering idiot - he's cured of gibbering, he's just an
idiot now." -- Jane, "Waiting for God"
Message no. 4
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves rule!!!
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 13:08:35 -0500
Too powerful? Heh. I'm glad to see the elves properly kicking ass again...

Go reread Tolkien's /Simarillion/. *THOSE* are powerful elves.
Message no. 5
From: Darth Vader <j07c@***.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Elves rule!!!
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 22:59:16 +0100
> Too powerful? Heh. I'm glad to see the elves properly kicking ass again...
> Go reread Tolkien's /Simarillion/. *THOSE* are powerful elves.

Thats exactly what I meant Feanors spirit lives on in the
elves of Tir Tairngire and Ti NaN og !!!
Its about times elves got to kick some butt .....

--
Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong!
Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall.
That is the way of things ... the way of the Force.

GCS -d+@ -p+(---) c+++ l++ u+++ e+ m++(-) s+/ !n(---) h*(+) f+ !g w+ t+ r++ y?
Message no. 6
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@********.UNI.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves rule!!!
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 16:58:58 -0500
> Too powerful? Heh. I'm glad to see the elves properly kicking ass
> again...

Yep, elves rule in Shadowrun.

At least right now.

I can almost see where the Humanis guys are coming from against elves
(alone...not anyone else), the elves are (at least in the Tir nations) VERY
bigoted, and not very impressive...

How long do you think it'll be before the Tirs have some major problems?

-------------Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@********.uni.uiuc.edu-------------
"He's NOT a gibbering idiot - he's cured of gibbering, he's just an
idiot now." -- Jane, "Waiting for God"
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <jweste%smtp@******.HZEELAND.NL>
Subject: Re: Elves rule!!! - Reply
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 13:31:02 +0200
> Elves typically get portrayed as short little people with pointy ears
> and wings.

That is by non-roleplayers: folks who think of Santa Claus and things
like that when they speak about elves. In RPG terms, you'd probably call
those creatures pixies, sprites, faeries, or whatever.

> I think that SR's race (if anyone is offended, I apologize for the use
> of the term) system works -quite- well...IMHO, metahumans are a bit
> *too* expensive.

The way the rules are, if you don't use the More Metahumans rule, I think
metahumans are a bit less powerful than human characters (when they start
out, at least).


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Gurth + "Ik kom u vrede en geluk brengen." +
+ (jweste%smtp@******.hzeeland.nl) + "MOOI! ZET MAAR IN DE GANG NEER!" +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Message no. 8
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves rule!!!
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 08:17:07 -0500
Hear hear!

But...elves should also be roleplayed right, or they do suck.
Message no. 9
From: Darth Vader <j07c@***.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Elves rule!!!
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 15:26:46 +0100
> But...elves should also be roleplayed right, or they do suck.

I agree, there is nothing worse that a player making
a jerk out of his elven character. Elves have a certain
dignity and some people just refuse (or simply can not)
accept-roleplay it. Oh well.....

--
Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong!
Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall.
That is the way of things ... the way of the Force.

GCS -d+@ -p+(---) c+++ l++ u+++ e+ m++(-) s+/ !n(---) h*(+) f+ !g w+ t+ r++ y?
Message no. 10
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves rule!!!
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 08:43:20 -0500
A sort of innate nobility, I guess. Too many people see "nobility" as
"haughty"
and then you get arrogant, fascist elves. Which suck.

Compare Tir Tangiere (sp) to The Last Homely House...
Message no. 11
From: Claudia Mohr <claudia@*****.PHYS.ND.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves rule!!!
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 10:17:34 EST
On Sunday June 5, someone wrote:
>>>All I have to say is - its high time someone had the guts to do this.
Elves (in most rpgs) are treated like flower loving faggots that
are good for nothing but getting fragged from the rest of the world
(see humans).
I have do agree and disagree at the same times. First I don't think elves in
other role playing systems can be reduced to flower loving faggots, they are
just more peace loving than other races. But if they have to fight they are
pretty good, better than anyone who just saw them would have believed.
And even in Shadowrun elves are nearer to nature than they are to technique.
But the way how they were treated in SR attracted me too.
But if you look at the rules - since they ar meta also in the beginning they
can not be as good as simple humans - the authors of bokks are not restricted
that way.
Stay in the shadows and stay alive
Nightdancer
Message no. 12
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Elves rule!!!
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 15:14:17 -0700
On Mon, 6 Jun 1994, Gian-Paolo Musumeci wrote:

> A sort of innate nobility, I guess. Too many people see "nobility" as
"haughty"
> and then you get arrogant, fascist elves. Which suck.

Hmmm, well I have a bit of trouble with this idea. My elven pack
(Sisters Sinister made up of Di'mons, Shamrock, and Fuersturm) were 1.
force expressed with magic. and 2. are sprawl bred. Frag, Fuersturm's
japanese! So where are they going to pick up those so-important
manners? I mean, Di'mons grew up eating outa garbage cans and Shamrock
spent 6 years as a playtoy/slave in San Francisco! Haughty? NO!
(Lethal, yes!)
They aren't well liked in the Tir (either of them) but they could all
care less.

My other elf was born, raised, and educated in Tir Tairngire, and all she
wants to do is forget it. She doesn't get haughty either, maybe it's the
3 years as a hooker in a stable before the Peaceforcers broke it up and a
mage-officer found out she was a potential mage? Or maybe it's her
running partners, who bath have criminal records going back to 1968?
Leonization was just in time for them. ;)

> Compare Tir Tangiere (sp) to The Last Homely House...
>
T i r T a i r n g i r e See, that isn't so bad <grin>.

Ivy

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