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Message no. 1
From: Erik S Jameson <esj@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 21:29:23 -0700
I don't know if this has been brought up, but it say in numerous places
that elves and dragons don't really get along. Even allowing for
individual preferences and prejudices, there does seem to be clear
animosity between the two races. Anybody have any idea why? Does it
have something to do with Earthdawn? Or what?

Erik, a.k.a. the Whistler
Message no. 2
From: "Thomas W. Craig" <Craigtw1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 00:00:19 -0500
I was going to shed some light on this matter on a plotline on TK, but I seem
to be getting flak from people about it. There was an occurance at the end
of the Fourth World known as the Domination War, fought between (guess who)
the Elves and the Dracos ( not all are straight Dragons) for control of the
world. But something happened to cause a truce. What it was no one knows
for certain.
Tom Craig
Message no. 3
From: "Brian E. Angliss" <ANGLISS@******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 01:17:30 -0500
As far as I know, there is no published info about why the two of them hate
each other, but as I don't have Earthdawn and have no intention of buying it,
I can't say.

Just a quick aside: Tom? The Domination War, as far as I know it, was my
creation last year. It is itself from ShadowTK. Now, if it's in ED, please
tell me. I'd appreciate knowing if my premise and logic on the reason for
thier hatred was accurate.

Brian
Message no. 4
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 00:26:40 -0600
On Sun, 20 Nov 1994, Thomas W. Craig wrote:

> I was going to shed some light on this matter on a plotline on TK, but I seem
> to be getting flak from people about it. There was an occurance at the end
> of the Fourth World known as the Domination War, fought between (guess who)
> the Elves and the Dracos ( not all are straight Dragons) for control of the
> world. But something happened to cause a truce. What it was no one knows
> for certain.

The dragons surrendered when they discovered that the elves had dragon
souls.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I do not necessarily speak for the
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> City of Mankato or anyone else
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GJ/CM d- H-- s-:++>s-:+ g+ p? au+ a- w++ v* C++(++++) UL++++$
P+>++ L++$ 3- E---- N+++ K+++ W M+ V-- -po+(---)>$ Y++ t+ 5+++
j R+++$ G- tv+ b+ D+ B--- e+>++(*) u** h* f r-->+++ !n y++**
Message no. 5
From: Doctor Doom <jch8169@*******.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 00:35:05 -0600
Von Dem Fearless Leader, who has been perusing the programme Babylon 5 to
extraordinary excess:

> On Sun, 20 Nov 1994, Thomas W. Craig wrote:
>
> > the Elves and the Dracos ( not all are straight Dragons) for control of the
> > world. But something happened to cause a truce. What it was no one knows
> > for certain.
>
> The dragons surrendered when they discovered that the elves had dragon
> souls.

"Oh Lord, bless this, Thy carp, that with it Thou mayest THWAP Thine
enemies into tiny bits, in Thy Mercy. . . ."

Carpe Cyprinum!

TTTTTTTTTT HH HH WW WW AA PPPPPPP || ||
TT HH HH WW WW AAAA PP PP || ||
TT HH HH WW WW AA AA PP PP || ||
TT HHHHHHHH WW WW WW AA AA PPPPPPP || ||
TT HH HH WW WW WW AAAAAAAA PP || ||
TT HH HH WWWWWWWW AA AA PP
TT HH HH WW WW AA AA PP .. ..

[ wet carp noise ]

"And thy foe, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."


Doctor Doom
Message no. 6
From: "D.O.A. SECURITY" <MKNABUSCH@****.ALBION.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 03:04:00 -0500
>The dragons surrendered when they discovered that the elves had dragon
>souls.

AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I don't believe it. I don't believe it! I have to believe it, its
on the screen. *grin* You actually had to make that reference to
Bab5. *sigh*
Wishing I had been in edit mode so I could thwap Hayden.

Michael
aka Harlequin
Message no. 7
From: wadycki andrew m <wadycki@***.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 03:22:40 -0600
On Sat, 19 Nov 1994, Erik S Jameson wrote:

> I don't know if this has been brought up, but it say in numerous places
> that elves and dragons don't really get along. Even allowing for
> individual preferences and prejudices, there does seem to be clear
> animosity between the two races. Anybody have any idea why? Does it
> have something to do with Earthdawn? Or what?
>
> Erik, a.k.a. the Whistler
>

I would think the problems between elves and dragons comes from them both
being very long lived races of a great deal of power. From Harlequin's
Back we know that certain elves are immortal, and dragons seem to be.
The amount of power they can gather is very great. The fact that the
elves have two nations (three if you include the one in Germany) and
there are great dragons with megacorporations and Trid shows, there can be a
lot of stepping on each other toes.

-Andrew
Message no. 8
From: Darth Vader <j07c@***.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 14:01:41 +0100
± I don't know if this has been brought up, but it say in numerous places
± that elves and dragons don't really get along. Even allowing for
± individual preferences and prejudices, there does seem to be clear
± animosity between the two races. Anybody have any idea why? Does it
± have something to do with Earthdawn? Or what?

Yes, I dont remember where I got this, but it is definitely from ED.
Lowfyrs brother Alamais(sp?) (died in Knight's Pawn) nuked the queen
of the elves about 10K years ago, thats the reason why you can find
a single dragon in Ireland :)
Tir Tairngire is not that tradition bound thats why they let Lowfyr
play prince...

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++VS++L>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N++ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b+++ D++ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 9
From: "Wow, Reality. That's a switch" <MHILLIARD@****.ALBION.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 10:47:31 -0500
>The dragons surrendered when they discovered that the elves had dragon
>souls.
Where have I heard THAT before? *grin*

=)
Phelan
Message no. 10
From: Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@***.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 11:29:10 -0600
> The dragons surrendered when they discovered that the elves had
> dragon souls.

Ah. And that's why Lofwyr's sitting in a Chrysalis (oops, WAS
sitting in a Chrysalis) and just grew hair.

--
Tim Skirvin (tskirvin@***.uiuc.edu)
Message no. 11
From: Thomas Hirt <kragan@***.UVIC.CA>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 10:46:51 PST
Andrew wrote,

>
> ...The fact that the elves have two nations (three if you include the one
> in Germany) ...
>

Elven nations:
Tir Tairngire
Tir na Nog
the place in Germany
Azania

At least that's according to Nosferatu for the last one.
BTW, what's the name of the nation in Germany, I can't quite remember it.

Another question for you. It's about ED crossover. In Snowdonia, GB, the
Queen(?) is supposed to be mining Orichalcum. Two possibilities come to mind.

1.) Large amounts of elemental Earth, Fire, Water, Air there, and someone
has either rediscovered the process of producing Orichalcum, (or still
remembers it.)

or more interesting,

2.) She has found a kaer from the fourth world, abandoned or still
occupied, and is "harvesting" the Orichalcum used in its manufacture.
Perhaps a horror was trapped in the kaer ...


Just my thoughts,
Blackest Night
AKA Tom Hirt.


"I do believe that we are up an unsanitary tributary with insufficient means
of locomotion." Kryton, Red Dwarf


Geek Code v1.01 GM d? -p+ c++ l u e+(*) m++(---) s+/+ !n h+ f? !g w+(-) t+(-)
r++ !y
Message no. 12
From: "Thomas W. Craig" <Craigtw1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 14:22:51 -0500
The place in Germany is known as the Duchy of Pomorya.
Later,
Tom Craig
Message no. 13
From: The GREAT Cornholio <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 16:00:48 -0700
On Sun, 20 Nov 1994, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Nov 1994, Thomas W. Craig wrote:
>
> > I was going to shed some light on this matter on a plotline on TK, but I seem
> > to be getting flak from people about it. There was an occurance at the end
> > of the Fourth World known as the Domination War, fought between (guess who)
> > the Elves and the Dracos ( not all are straight Dragons) for control of the
> > world. But something happened to cause a truce. What it was no one knows
> > for certain.
>
> The dragons surrendered when they discovered that the elves had dragon
> souls.
>
Yeah. After the elves killed the Dragon King, the dragons went on a
rampage. But then dragons discovered the elves secret. The elves and
dragons had a truce and built 5 cities, one of which mysteriously
disappeared and the other three were destroyed by strange cicumstances.
However the fifth city was a dream given form, 3 kms of stone in a
deserted land, all alone in the plains.

According to Erhan, then greatest elf was an elf called Sinclair. But
then he went to live with the dragons.

Mike
Message no. 14
From: ELFBOY <MBAKER@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 21:14:33 EST
I think it's sort of a traditional legend used by most writers of fiction
and games. Elves supposedly used Dragons the way humans use
horses. [don't be offended if your legend is different. I know there are
a lot of legends, this is just one that I like.] It's a long story, how
Dragons and Elves became somewhat 'equal'. I personally have
nothing agains't the Dragon race/races. "I would have both friends
and enemies among all races."
>>>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >>> >> >>
<< << << << <<
<< << << <<
>>>> >> >>>> >>>>>
>> >> >>
<< << << << <<
<< << <<
>>>>>> >>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>> <<
ELFBOY
"Eternal youth is yours, gift or curse, make of it
what you will."-Elfqueen
Message no. 15
From: "Thomas W. Craig" <Craigtw1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 23:06:36 -0500
Actually, the Dragons don't mind to be ridden as a steed; but do NOT make fun
of them. Many have short tempers.
Later,
Tom Craig
Message no. 16
From: "Thomas W. Craig" <Craigtw1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 23:43:53 -0500
Actually, I thought those of us on TK discussed this Spring of '93. Or we
discussed it over here. Heck, my memory is very spotty on things from last
year, except dealing with my personal life...which I'd rather forget.
Tom
Message no. 17
From: "Brian E. Angliss" <ANGLISS@******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 01:48:11 -0500
It(refering to the Domination War{s} idea) was discussed some, but I don't
remember where. I guess that, regardless of the origination of the
designation, it makes sense.

Two really long lived species, both vying for temporal power, sometime in the
last mana cycle come to butt heads and tear each other to shreads, destroying
most of thier armies(which just happen to be the less fotunate dwarves, orks,
troll, and humans) and many of each other in the process. Finally, certain
members on each side realize that they will take the world with them if they
continue fighting(kinda like Mutually Assured Destruction), and so they call
a truce. Without all parties agreeing, of course.

This would explain why some of the TT elves get along with Lofwyr(more or
less), and also why Ehran threatened to leave the Council of Princes. Who
knows? But it is pretty logical, without having anything really concrete to
base the ideas on.

This is what I used in my game, when the question came up(which was only once,
maybe twice).

Brian
Message no. 18
From: Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 11:59:12 -0800
On Sun, 20 Nov 1994, Thomas W. Craig wrote:

> I was going to shed some light on this matter on a plotline on TK, but I seem
> to be getting flak from people about it. There was an occurance at the end
> of the Fourth World known as the Domination War, fought between (guess who)

Actually, never read anything about a "Domination War" between
Elves and Dragons (though the Therans did wage a war against Dragons that
ended rather quickly).
The reason Elves and Dragons don't get along probably has
something to do with Alamaise slaying High Queen Failla, the Queen of the
Elven Court, for the "crimes of the Elven Court". Especially since her
successor, Dallia, was not as compassionate to the Shosharan elves or any
other race in general.
And of course, some elves began doubting the rightness of the
Elven Court at Wyrm Wood, both for Queen Dallia and because the universe
shouldn't have allowed Failla to die unless there really _were_ crimes.
Maybe had something to do with the enslavement of the Orks.

+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|Adam Getchell|acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu | ez000270@*******.ucdavis.edu |
| acgetchell |"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent"|
+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 19
From: Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 12:01:43 -0800
On Sun, 20 Nov 1994, Brian E. Angliss wrote:

> Just a quick aside: Tom? The Domination War, as far as I know it, was my
> creation last year. It is itself from ShadowTK. Now, if it's in ED, please
> tell me. I'd appreciate knowing if my premise and logic on the reason for

It's not. And, by the way, the "elder races" are Dragons,
Obsidimen, T'skrang and Windlings. NOT elves. All of the homo sapien
types are latecomers as Name-givers.

> Brian

+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|Adam Getchell|acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu | ez000270@*******.ucdavis.edu |
| acgetchell |"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent"|
+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 20
From: Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elves vs. Dragons
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 08:31:17 -0800
I mixed up the two Elven Queens, sorry. Queen Dallia was the
compassionate queen, slain by Alamaise. Queen Failla was the less
forgiving of the two ...

+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|Adam Getchell|acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu | ez000270@*******.ucdavis.edu |
| acgetchell |"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent"|
+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Elves vs. Dragons, you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!