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Message no. 1
From: Mike Sapp <cynner29@******.NET>
Subject: Elves was Re: Intelligence vs. Perception (was Re:Combat Pool)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:13:28 -0400
Hi, my name's Mike and I hate Elves.
<*Hi, Mike*>
It all started with TSR, and the Blade Singer kit.

I really hate elves, that's not a joke. Whether it's Tolkien's Fairies,
can't stop singing to fight variety or TSR BattleGods and Mages
extrodinaire. I actually see Shadowrun as having the most balanced of all
RPG elves. Although the automatic charisma bonus regardless of personality
could have been handled differently, it's not really that bad.

Since the last "I hate Elves" thread, I've worked out my problems with the
shadowrun variety.

Humans are the majority, everything centers around the humans. All
metahumans but elves are considered uglier than humans on the average. This
is a social disadvantage for those races and with the exception of the
dwarves, the other races react and behave accordingly, generally seen as a
tendency towards violence.

Where the disadvantage for elves manifests it isn't visible. It's a
deficiency of the spirit. They lack one aspect of humanity (in the general
sense of the word). They aren't as imaginative as humans, they can't grasp
passion, or some other spiritual (for lack of a better word) short coming.
I don't allow this to be twisted into an advantage, elves can't ever be
emotionally void unless they are psychotic. They are however emotionally
cool, never able to truely enjoy music, art or deep love. This irks the
hell out of them and as most do when a lacking is found, they deny it into
a plus. Underneath it still irritates them to no end, but above board they
act like it's the way things should be and most elves believe it.


Tobias Berghoff wrote:
>You just don't know some of the players I do. What would you think about a
>girl, that's (sorry) fat, ugly and diskliked by most people in RL, who
>always plays tall, slim (196cm, 40kg, god dammit!) elfs that are loved by
>everybody (except the other players)? Thought so.


And as for the fat,ugly, unliked female player in your group, she's not
doing a single thing that you aren't already. She taking on the persona of
someone she isn't but sees as being interesting. If she is playing the same
character over and over then there is a problem and someone needs to help
her develop a new personality. Otherwise suck it up or kick her out, but
don't talk behind her back on a list she doesn't have access to and can't
defend herself on.

Cynner -
Message no. 2
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Elves was Re: Intelligence vs. Perception (was Re:Combat Pool)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:36:06 -0600
Mike Sapp wrote:
|
| Hi, my name's Mike and I hate Elves.

Wow. I didn't think it was possible to be a racist towards an imaginary
race <boggle>. That must take a lot of work ;)

Me, I don't like the way elves are portrayed in the Shadowrun. And, I'm
not to keen on players that play sterotypical elves.

Telling players that elf=Spock is going way to far, IMO. A simple,
"Play an elf that has depth and a meaty character, and not some daisy
picking fair." would be a much better approach, again IMO.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 3
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Elves was Re: Intelligence vs. Perception (was Re:Combat Pool)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:43:12 +0200
>Me, I don't like the way elves are portrayed in the Shadowrun. And, I'm
>not to keen on players that play sterotypical elves.
>
>Telling players that elf=Spock is going way to far, IMO. A simple,
>"Play an elf that has depth and a meaty character, and not some daisy
>picking fair." would be a much better approach, again IMO.

Heh... one of my players recently wanted to play a totally stereotypical
Tolkienish elf. Not because he's an elfophile, but for comic relief.
He would be totally disgusting; a cross between Dame Edna and
Hrung the barbarian. I kinda liked the idea...
Message no. 4
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Elves was Re: Intelligence vs. Perception (was Re:Combat Pool)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:17:00 GMT
on 22.09.97 cynner29@******.NET wrote:

c> Tobias Berghoff wrote:
c> >You just don't know some of the players I do. What would you think about a
c> >girl, that's (sorry) fat, ugly and diskliked by most people in RL, who
c> >always plays tall, slim (196cm, 40kg, god dammit!) elfs that are loved by
c> >everybody (except the other players)? Thought so.
c>
c>
c> And as for the fat,ugly, unliked female player in your group, she's not
c> doing a single thing that you aren't already. She taking on the persona of
c> someone she isn't but sees as being interesting.

Oh, well, I never write chars, because I want to be like them. Sure, I
think they're interesting, but that's it (O.K., sometimes I even like
them). The difference is that I don't see myself as that char and don't
really identify with him/her. I guess, taking roleplaying to personaly is
something that can happen pretty fast...

c> If she is playing the same
c> character over and over then there is a problem and someone needs to help
c> her develop a new personality. Otherwise suck it up or kick her out, but
c> don't talk behind her back on a list she doesn't have access to and can't
c> defend herself on.

Geeee...I was just giving an example. I've been talking to her about this
for quite some time and I guess she knows what I think about that by now.
(And the day I wrote the above statement, I was *really* pissed of,
because of something she did, so please forgive me. I'll try not to be
emotional anymore (Yeah, that's sarcasm)) About talking behind others
backs: Don't tell me you never do.

P.S.: Don't take it personaly, Cynner.



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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Message no. 5
From: Mike Sapp <cynner29@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Elves was Re: Intelligence vs. Perception (was Re:Combat Pool)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 02:18:48 -0400
<snip emotional drivel written by me>
>Geeee...I was just giving an example. I've been talking to her about this
>for quite some time and I guess she knows what I think about that by now.
>(And the day I wrote the above statement, I was *really* pissed of,
>because of something she did, so please forgive me. I'll try not to be
>emotional anymore (Yeah, that's sarcasm)) About talking behind others
>backs: Don't tell me you never do.
>
>P.S.: Don't take it personaly, Cynner.
>
Sorry, I just lost a couple good friends to this recently and it looks like
it set up waves that might break up my best friend's marriage.

The other GM just brought too much emotional baggage into the game, tried
to force his munchkin/ superpowergamer/ dice nudging fiance into a well
established group of roleplayers, we'd roll dice one night in six. I could
go on about the amazing merits of secretarial skills, why force 7 spirits
shouldn't be a PC in a group of 20 Karma PCs, and why titaninum<sp>
stilleto heels aren't generally worn on runs but I really don't think this
is the forum.
One more question though, could anyone really learn Athletic/gymnastics-5/7
in 3 inch heels? Why? (ok, two questions)

I don't take it personally, it just brings up some memories that really
piss me off. Sorry, if I took it out on you.

One more thing, I don't want to give the impression that the game or
fanatic players had anything to do with this. The game was just what bought
us together. It was even worse when we weren't gaming, nearly burning down
Yaggen, a Japanese campground, comes to mind.


Cynner -
Message no. 6
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Elves was Re: Intelligence vs. Perception (was Re:Combat Pool)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:56:00 GMT
on 24.09.97 cynner29@******.NET wrote:

c> >P.S.: Don't take it personaly, Cynner.
c> >
c> Sorry, I just lost a couple good friends to this recently and it looks like
c> it set up waves that might break up my best friend's marriage.

Oh. Didn't know that.

c> The other GM just brought too much emotional baggage into the game, tried
c> to force his munchkin/ superpowergamer/ dice nudging fiance into a well
c> established group of roleplayers,

Looks like a rather extreme version of my problem (make that ex-problem.
we split the group). The girl I mentioned it the GMs girlfriend.

c> One more question though, could anyone really learn Athletic/gymnastics-5/7
c> in 3 inch heels? Why? (ok, two questions)

Of course. It might take 25 years of constant training, but hey....

c> I don't take it personally, it just brings up some memories that really
c> piss me off. Sorry, if I took it out on you.

No problem. I just couldn't understand, why you reacted that way.

c> One more thing, I don't want to give the impression that the game or
c> fanatic players had anything to do with this. The game was just what bought
c> us together. It was even worse when we weren't gaming, nearly burning down
c> Yaggen, a Japanese campground, comes to mind.

I know what you're talking about. If you ever get to Germany and some tall
guy with two axes runs after your car, tell him I said 'Hi!'.

P.S. I hope your friend get's his marriage back together.

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
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