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Message no. 1
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: EMP?
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:38:26 -0600
Does the Street Samurai Catalog have any rules regarding Electromagnetic
Pulses? Me and my friend were think about working some out, but I wanted
to see if Shadowrun already had some, and if somebody could, give a brief
description of them.
Thanks
-Court


/* Court Schuett

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Son I am able," she said "though you scare me."
"Watch," said I
"beloved," I said "watch me scare you though." said she,
"able am I, Son."
-They Might Be Giants
*******************************************************************************/
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:09:32 +0100
Court Schuett said on 16:38/12 Nov 96...

> Does the Street Samurai Catalog have any rules regarding Electromagnetic
> Pulses? Me and my friend were think about working some out, but I wanted
> to see if Shadowrun already had some, and if somebody could, give a brief
> description of them.

It doesn't, and I believe there are none anywhere in (official) SR
rulebooks.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
superficial urgency
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 3
From: BulletShower <nmatausc@****.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:11:04 +1000
Hi y'all!

> Court Schuett wrote:
> Does the Street Samurai Catalog have any rules regarding Electromagnetic
> Pulses? Me and my friend were think about working some out, but I wanted
> to see if Shadowrun already had some, and if somebody could, give a brief
> description of them.


Nope, no official SR rules exist. If you're interested, take a look
into Cyberpunk 2020, it has some pretty good rules for EMP.

:)
Bullet
______________________________________________________________________
"Gott wuerfelt nicht" (A. Einstein)
For More information on diceless roleplaying and own Shadowrun stuff,
jack into http://www.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~nmatausc
Message no. 4
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 06:42:58 -0700
Gurth wrote:
|
|Court Schuett said on 16:38/12 Nov 96...
|
|> Does the Street Samurai Catalog have any rules regarding Electromagnetic
|> Pulses? Me and my friend were think about working some out, but I wanted
|> to see if Shadowrun already had some, and if somebody could, give a brief
|> description of them.
|
|It doesn't, and I believe there are none anywhere in (official) SR
|rulebooks.

The only SR rule that comes close is under the description
for the critter power Electrical Projection (in PAE). You
might want to start with that to come up with your own
house rule on EMP.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 5
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 17:43:58 +0000
In message <Pine.BSI.3.91.961112163700.7656B-100000@*****.ivcc.edu>,
Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU> writes
>Does the Street Samurai Catalog have any rules regarding Electromagnetic
>Pulses? Me and my friend were think about working some out, but I wanted
>to see if Shadowrun already had some, and if somebody could, give a brief
>description of them.

EMP is generally a bad move, for various reasons.

I assume you're thinking of things like a "EMP Grenade"? It won't affect
many 2050s systems, since optical computing is so much more prevalent.
Nor will it be greatly effective against cyberware, which enjoys a
measure of shielding from its immersion in a conductive saline bath
(hint, its owner).

What it will do is fry a lot of civilian systems... imagine the effect
of power-spiking GridLink, for instance. Not to mention all those
domestic appliances getting power surges (optical or not, they still
need mains electricity). Maybe useful for terrorists, but the corpcops
shooting at you won't be affected overmuch.

--
"There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy."
Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 6
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:09:29 -0500
I was wondered about directed microwave beams, particarily masers
(microwave lasers) as a replacement for EMP's. Fry the flesh as well as
nasty effects of the 'ware. Might be able to bypass most armors as well.

>
> EMP is generally a bad move, for various reasons.
>
> I assume you're thinking of things like a "EMP Grenade"? It won't affect
> many 2050s systems, since optical computing is so much more prevalent.
> Nor will it be greatly effective against cyberware, which enjoys a
> measure of shielding from its immersion in a conductive saline bath
> (hint, its owner).
>
> What it will do is fry a lot of civilian systems... imagine the effect
> of power-spiking GridLink, for instance. Not to mention all those
> domestic appliances getting power surges (optical or not, they still
> need mains electricity). Maybe useful for terrorists, but the corpcops
> shooting at you won't be affected overmuch.
>
> --
> "There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
> praiseworthy."
> Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
>
> Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
>
Message no. 7
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 11:28:34 -0700
Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:
|
|I was wondered about directed microwave beams, particarily masers
|(microwave lasers) as a replacement for EMP's. Fry the flesh as well as
|nasty effects of the 'ware. Might be able to bypass most armors as well.

A Panther Assault Cannon with Armor Piercing rounds would
do the job just as well. I.e., simple and cheap usually
wins out over exotic and expensive (and for the GM it's a
whole lot easier).

On the other hand, if you've got a psychotic/genius major
villain NPC that just *has* to fry his victims with
microwaves... pick a power level, a damage level, and any
additional effects that sound believable (interior and
exterior burns (extra healing time), bypasses armor,
cyberware must check for damage (see SSC), etc) and go for
it.

Be warned though - if you make it, your players might get it.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 8
From: Sight Unseen <toabo@****.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:04:22 -0500
>measure of shielding from its immersion in a conductive saline bath
>(hint, its owner).
That's an interesting way of describing a samurai. "You're nothing
but a conductive saline bath for chrome." <g>




Enigma
Message no. 9
From: Timothy P Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 16:01:22 -0800
>
> >measure of shielding from its immersion in a conductive saline bath
> >(hint, its owner).
> That's an interesting way of describing a samurai. "You're nothing
> but a conductive saline bath for chrome." <g>
>
>
>
>
> Enigma

Works for me....

-Zim
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:33:13 +0100
Midn Daniel O Fredrikson said on 13:09/13 Nov 96...

> I was wondered about directed microwave beams, particarily masers
> (microwave lasers) as a replacement for EMP's. Fry the flesh as well as
> nasty effects of the 'ware. Might be able to bypass most armors as well.

I just remembered that 3G3 says something about masers... page 40, in the
particle beams chapter (right under the paragraph that claims particle
beam rules have the highest likely error, because of lack of working
examples today).
In short: masers (in 3G3 rules) are designed like lasers, but damage
reduction over range is larger than for most lasers (Damage RC = 1).
Things that block radio waves will block masers, while things with
asymmetric molecules will take damage (that includes people). Most
non-metallic armors are transparent, but wearing aluminum foil makes you
immune to its effects. Maser damage counts as burns for healing and other
special effects.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
superficial urgency
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
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Message no. 11
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:12:40 +0000
In message <Pine.GSO.3.95.961113130659.17256C-100000@******>, Midn
Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL> writes
>I was wondered about directed microwave beams, particarily masers
>(microwave lasers) as a replacement for EMP's. Fry the flesh as well as
>nasty effects of the 'ware. Might be able to bypass most armors as well.

Sounds very nasty. Can you cope with your players getting hold of it? :)

--
"There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy."
Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 12
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:46:06 -0500
> In message <Pine.GSO.3.95.961113130659.17256C-100000@******>, Midn
> Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL> writes
> >I was wondered about directed microwave beams, particarily masers
> >(microwave lasers) as a replacement for EMP's. Fry the flesh as well as
> >nasty effects of the 'ware. Might be able to bypass most armors as well.
>
> Sounds very nasty. Can you cope with your players getting hold of it? :)
>
Sure, cause I already got a defence for it. Have phased array microware
emittors that produce a half-wavelength delayed waveform, cancelling out
the energy. Also possible are superconducting meshes, since type II
superconductors would refuse to allow the penitration of the magnetic
componete of the microwave. And there is always the old standby, a "force
field" generation that just 'happens' to burn out if the players get their
hands on it. I'm not sure what the microwaves would do to metal (anyone
know??) but since most armors are going to be ceramic/compositites, it
would be unlikely that they could block microwave.
Message no. 13
From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:49:48 -0800
At 20:46 11/14/96 -0500, Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:
>> In message <Pine.GSO.3.95.961113130659.17256C-100000@******>, Midn
>> Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL> writes
>> >I was wondered about directed microwave beams, particarily masers
>> >(microwave lasers) as a replacement for EMP's. Fry the flesh as well as
>> >nasty effects of the 'ware. Might be able to bypass most armors as well.

>> Sounds very nasty. Can you cope with your players getting hold of it? :)

>Sure, cause I already got a defence for it. Have phased array microware
>emittors that produce a half-wavelength delayed waveform, cancelling out
>the energy.

That implies some good detectors as well; that kind of defense would be
extremely expensive.

> Also possible are superconducting meshes, since type II
>superconductors would refuse to allow the penitration of the magnetic
>componete of the microwave.

Do you want to hand out room-temperature superconductors to your players?

> And there is always the old standby, a "force
>field" generation that just 'happens' to burn out if the players get their
>hands on it.

I'm not sure I quite get the " "force field" generation " bit, but
having
things 'happen' to burn out when the players get their hands on them tends
to get the players somewhat cheesed off. (And the ones with Electronics 5
and a Task Pool of 3 are going to be annoyed if the thing is impossible to
repair.)

> I'm not sure what the microwaves would do to metal (anyone
>know??) but since most armors are going to be ceramic/compositites, it
>would be unlikely that they could block microwave.

Microwaves tend to make metal throw off sparks; metal will block microwaves
very easily. In general, the frequency you're using matters. Most armors
will be basically transparent to microwaves, but if people think they'll be
up against them, they can just put layers of aluminum foil in the armor and
that will take care of the problem just fine. (Want to bet that's a feature
on military and security armor?)
--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%%
%%% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." - me %%%
Message no. 14
From: Brian W Allison <ballison@*******.WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:16:20 -0500
> Microwaves tend to make metal throw off sparks; metal will block microwaves
> very easily. In general, the frequency you're using matters. Most armors
> will be basically transparent to microwaves, but if people think they'll be
> up against them, they can just put layers of aluminum foil in the armor and
> that will take care of the problem just fine. (Want to bet that's a feature
> on military and security armor?)


What???

Ok.

- Metal absorbing microwave energy heats up fast enough to blacken and
crips if foil (knowledge gained the hard way in a microwave oven), and to
explode if its a solid. Also depends on how much energy - higher levels
(such as EMP) will make for more... interesting... results.
- If you collect this energy inside of someone's armor, they're goign to
get cooked as the energy is trapped near them.


I'll bet you good money that nobody in their right mind will put a
potential fire hazard inside their combat armor.






Brian W. Allison

Computer Scientist Vocalist Would-be Poet Bicycler Scuba Diver
Hacker(0xca) Nerd(79) GenX(21) #include <witticism.h>
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~ballison

--- Unsolicited Commercial E-Mail is not welcome at this account ---
--- and will result in a US$500 fee per US Code Title 47 Sec 227. ---
Message no. 15
From: Sight Unseen <toabo@****.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 06:27:07 -0500
At 08:46 PM 11/14/96 -0500, you wrote:
>> In message <Pine.GSO.3.95.961113130659.17256C-100000@******>, Midn
>> Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL> writes
>> >I was wondered about directed microwave beams, particarily masers
>> >(microwave lasers) as a replacement for EMP's. Fry the flesh as well as
>> >nasty effects of the 'ware. Might be able to bypass most armors as well.
>>
>> Sounds very nasty. Can you cope with your players getting hold of it? :)
>>
>Sure, cause I already got a defence for it. Have phased array microware
>emittors that produce a half-wavelength delayed waveform, cancelling out
>the energy. Also possible are superconducting meshes, since type II
>superconductors would refuse to allow the penitration of the magnetic
>componete of the microwave. And there is always the old standby, a "force
>field" generation that just 'happens' to burn out if the players get their
>hands on it. I'm not sure what the microwaves would do to metal (anyone
>know??) but since most armors are going to be ceramic/compositites, it
>would be unlikely that they could block microwave.
>
Geez, whatever happened to just shooting the bad guy?



Enigma
Message no. 16
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 07:46:24 -0500
> At 08:46 PM 11/14/96 -0500, you wrote:
> >> In message <Pine.GSO.3.95.961113130659.17256C-100000@******>, Midn
> >> Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL> writes
> >> >I was wondered about directed microwave beams, particarily masers
> >> >(microwave lasers) as a replacement for EMP's. Fry the flesh as well as
> >> >nasty effects of the 'ware. Might be able to bypass most armors as
well.
> >>
> >> Sounds very nasty. Can you cope with your players getting hold of it? :)
> >>
> >Sure, cause I already got a defence for it. Have phased array microware
> >emittors that produce a half-wavelength delayed waveform, cancelling out
> >the energy. Also possible are superconducting meshes, since type II
> >superconductors would refuse to allow the penitration of the magnetic
> >componete of the microwave. And there is always the old standby, a "force
> >field" generation that just 'happens' to burn out if the players get their
> >hands on it. I'm not sure what the microwaves would do to metal (anyone
> >know??) but since most armors are going to be ceramic/compositites, it
> >would be unlikely that they could block microwave.
> >
> Geez, whatever happened to just shooting the bad guy?
>
Man, you are way behind the power curve. Just shooting people the bad guy
went out with first edition. Now you have to shoot people with the most
expensive, complicated manner possible.
Message no. 17
From: Timothy P Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:51:25 -0800
> > Microwaves tend to make metal throw off sparks; metal will block microwaves
> > very easily. In general, the frequency you're using matters. Most armors
> > will be basically transparent to microwaves, but if people think they'll be
> > up against them, they can just put layers of aluminum foil in the armor and
> > that will take care of the problem just fine. (Want to bet that's a feature
> > on military and security armor?)
>
>
> What???
>
> Ok.
>
> - Metal absorbing microwave energy heats up fast enough to blacken and
> crips if foil (knowledge gained the hard way in a microwave oven), and to
> explode if its a solid. Also depends on how much energy - higher levels
> (such as EMP) will make for more... interesting... results.
> - If you collect this energy inside of someone's armor, they're goign to
> get cooked as the energy is trapped near them.
>
> I'll bet you good money that nobody in their right mind will put a
> potential fire hazard inside their combat armor.
>
> Brian W. Allison
>

True, true, all true...but how many runners or other target type characters use
metalic weapons? How'd you like to have your SMG (or worse your Panther Cannon
or Missle launcher) suddenly become hot enough to cook the ammo right in your
very own hand?

How many Sams, Deckers, or riggers have enough metalic parts incorporated into
their, much more heat sensitive, bodies to make for a nice Bar-B-Q? What about
your everyday Titanium/Aluminum laced Sammy?

Food for thought.

-Tim
Message no. 18
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:54:59 -0700
Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:
|
|> Geez, whatever happened to just shooting the bad guy?
|>
|Man, you are way behind the power curve. Just shooting people the bad guy
|went out with first edition. Now you have to shoot people with the most
|expensive, complicated manner possible.

So, what do you do if the PCs don't use anything bigger
than an Ares Predator? Do you just blow them away? Or do
you take the time to write creative and entertaining
adventures that don't involve massive amounts of lead?

My players know that I can beat them at that game, so they
don't play that way. They use pistols and tasers, and only
if they can't talk their way out of a situation. YMMV.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 19
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:29:57 -0500
> Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:
> |
> |> Geez, whatever happened to just shooting the bad guy?
> |>
> |Man, you are way behind the power curve. Just shooting people the bad guy
> |went out with first edition. Now you have to shoot people with the most
> |expensive, complicated manner possible.
>
> So, what do you do if the PCs don't use anything bigger
> than an Ares Predator? Do you just blow them away? Or do
> you take the time to write creative and entertaining
> adventures that don't involve massive amounts of lead?
>
> My players know that I can beat them at that game, so they
> don't play that way. They use pistols and tasers, and only
> if they can't talk their way out of a situation. YMMV.
>
I wish I was in your shoes. Most of my played still think that wired
reflexes and a panther can solve all problems. They will learn though.
Message no. 20
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:18:09 -0700
Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:
|
|> My players know that I can beat them at that game, so they
|> don't play that way. They use pistols and tasers, and only
|> if they can't talk their way out of a situation. YMMV.
|
|I wish I was in your shoes. Most of my played still think that wired
|reflexes and a panther can solve all problems. They will learn though.

<chuckle> My favorite tactic for this type of player is to
let him make his killer character, and then run a
non-combat adventure (murder mysteries are the best). The
only option I give him is to roleplay. And if he sits back
and doesn't do anything then I make sure to have NPCs come
up to him and talk his ear off :)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 21
From: The Crucible <crucible@******.MUR.CSU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 12:42:59 +1100
> Geez, whatever happened to just shooting the bad guy?
>
> Enigma

Whaddya mean we -are- the bad guys ;)

Crucible

"Its all a matter of perception" - Forgot ;)
/----------------------------------------------------------------\
|email: |
| crucible@******.mur.csu.edu.au (Use this one first)|
| crucible@******.net |
| 94043950@********.mur.csu.edu.au (Student account) |
|homepage: http://itclub.mur.csu.edu.au/~crucible/ |
\----------------------------------------------------------------/
Message no. 22
From: Brian W Allison <ballison@*******.WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 15:05:30 -0500
On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, The Crucible wrote:

> > Geez, whatever happened to just shooting the bad guy?
> > Enigma
>
> Whaddya mean we -are- the bad guys ;)

No, the Corps are the bad guys. We're just the *illegal* ones.

"When law and right diverge, the people suffer."

"Shoot the f**kers." - Mel Gibson, Lethal Weapon II
(ok, and a lot of other people/places/etc)



Brian W. Allison

Computer Scientist Vocalist Would-be Poet Bicycler Scuba Diver
Hacker(0xca) Nerd(79) GenX(21) #include <witticism.h>
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~ballison

--- Unsolicited Commercial E-Mail is not welcome at this account ---
--- and will result in a US$500 fee per US Code Title 47 Sec 227. ---
Message no. 23
From: Sight Unseen <toabo@****.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:15:44 -0500
>> Geez, whatever happened to just shooting the bad guy?
>>
>Man, you are way behind the power curve. Just shooting people the bad guy
>went out with first edition. Now you have to shoot people with the most
>expensive, complicated manner possible.
>
Why? Dead by bullet or dead by microwave, what's the difference?
<smirk>






Enigma
Message no. 24
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 18:39:26 -0500
> Why? Dead by bullet or dead by microwave, what's the difference?
><smirk>
>

Style. My boy Style.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

If you have to ask then it's probably classified.
Which means that I have to follow protocol.
But if you ask nicely I might forget that you asked.
Then again maybe not.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 25
From: Timothy P Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:52:29 -0800
>
> > Why? Dead by bullet or dead by microwave, what's the difference?
> ><smirk>
> >
>
> Style. My boy Style.
>
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

A paraphrase of a qoute from some add about CP2020 [with modifications as
needed]:

"You don't play [Shadowrun] just to shoot people...You play to shoot people with
your Smart-linked [silenced, recoil-compensated, Ingram Super-Mach 100] and
shoot them first with [Move-By-Wire IV]."

~Tim
Message no. 26
From: John Pederson <Canthros@***.COM>
Subject: Re: EMP?
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 16:32:10 -0500
In a message dated 96-11-17 18:42:47 EST, you write:

>> Why? Dead by bullet or dead by microwave, what's the difference?
>><smirk>
>>
>
>Style. My boy Style.

Style is over-rated. After all, if style takes too long, it'll get you
killed. I'll take Efficiency over style any day of the week. Besides, it's
not every idiot that walks around killing with "style"...use the same, unique
method too many times and you get tagged real quick:)

Canthros-the-shapeshifter-mage

John Pederson "God is dead"
canthros@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to 1900)
lobo1@****.com "Nietzsche is dead"
http://members.gnn.com/lenoj/johns.htm -God (everlasting to everlasting)

"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Message no. 27
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: EMP
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:04:48 -0800
Wow, lots of mail has accumulated. I'm just now reading it, so forgive the
tardiness of my responses, but perhaps this can clear up some things:

The definition of EMP is: The electromagnetic radiation from a nuclear
explosion caused by Compton-recoil electrons and photoelectons from photons
scattered in the materials of the nuclear device or in a surrounding
medium. the resulting electric and magnetic fields may couple with
electrical/electronic systems to produce damaging current and voltage
surges.

We can also accomplish these effects through non-nuclear means. In fact,
there are three main routes of research: flux compression generators,
explosive and propellant driven MHD (magnetohydrodynamic) generators, and
HPM (high power microwave sources) such as the virtual cathode oscillator
or Vircator.

FCGs are mature and amenable to packaging in a bomb. A hypothetical EMP
bomb based on the Mark 84 chassis using a Vircator and 2 stage FCG would
have an effect zone of 400-500 meters diameter with several hundred meter
standoff. Field strengths in the footprint would be several kilovolts per
meter. In fact, with the proper materials, such as several kg of Semtex,
basic electrical materials, and lathes to fabricate coils and parts, a
"home made" EMP bomb could be constructed.

Assessing effectiveness is problematic. There are generally two coupling
modes in the literature: Front Door coupling, which occurs when power from
the EMP weapon transfers into an antennae such as on a radar or
communications site. Since the antennae is designed to efficiently transmit
power, this efficiency translates to the weapon. Over large areas such as
power lines and transformers, this effect is devasting. If anyone's read
Tom Clancy or heard of FOBS (Fractional Orbit Bombardment System), that's
one of its functions -- a sneak attack on radio communications and
electrical power grids on the continental U.S.

Back door coupling is basically self inductance, when the electromagnetic
field produces (induces) currents on fixed electrical wiring or cabling.
The primary damage is via standing waves or high voltage transient spikes.

Given the field densities above, note that modern silicon bipolar
transistors breakdown voltage is 15-65 V, while GaAs is 10V. Generic CMOS
is from 7-15 Volts, and CPUs are 3.3 - 5V. As you can see, even with very
low coupling efficiencies damaging voltage and power transients can be
generated.

Vulnerability to EMP is being reduced through the use of GaAs, SiAs, and
InP substrates for chips. Smaller electronic devices typically have several
failure modes, such as Single Event Upsets, Single Event Latchup, and
Displacement damage. An installation could be completely secured with a
faraday cage, internal power supply, and fiber optic communications.
External power supply would provide a breach via the power lines.

Most computers will probably be optical. Current laser diodes have a power
source supplying something like 100 milliamps at 2.7 volts. The
photoelectric junction would be vulnerable to secondary coupling, but this
shortcoming would definitely be addressed.

In regards to the "Turn everything off" and "Broken Arrow", this
relates to
the Single Even Latchup failure, wherein a high operating current is
induced in the device (transistor, CPU, etc.). The only way to clear this
is to cycle the power.

In regards to electrical systems, damage can still accrue due to front door
coupling and power transfer (thermal damage) into the wiring and
surrounding area. Remember that the vulnerability occurs as a result of
self inductance in a conductor of appreciable "current loop" size. Note
that in Vietnam the U.S. Army was able to track and target vehicles based
upon their ignition systems.

As far as the effect on cyberware, it really depends upon the technologies
used. No one has really discussed power supplies. If it is a thermocouple
or otherwise biologically based, vulnerability is likely to be minimal.
However, cyberlimbs and their ilk will require significant power that
cannot be supplied in this manner. Certainly, as I've used EMP weapons in
my game, there would exist milspec cyberlimbs with built in faraday cages
around important components.

In general, an EMP weapon (somehow I don't see it as a spell -- the closest
would be an adaptation of elemental Lightning) would be probably not be
useful to the generic shadowrunner, although military applications could
probably be imagined. This would be a known security exploit, so anyone
with decent security would be protected from it. The military, on the other
hand, would have the luxury of being able to mount a multi-pronged assault
to use such devices effectively.



--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
Message no. 28
From: Ken Peters tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: EMP
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 20:48:10 -0700
From: NeoJudas <neojudas@******************.com>

EMP
>> I'm not sure where you are getting the "negligable" effects from since
its
>> totally incorrect. Here are some links:
>> http://www.house.gov/smbiz/hearings/106th/1999/990601/soper.htm
>
>Dated also as the reports are based upon research not inclusive to SatLOS
>technologies.


It's dated? How so? Where are you getting your EMP info so I can crossheck?

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/security/has280010.000/has280010_0.HTM
"As you know, the detonation of a nuclear weapon between 50 and several
hundred kilometers above the Earth's surface will produce an electromagnetic
pulse that can, under certain conditions, damage electronic equipment. We
don't know exactly how much damage can be done to commercial equipment. The
phenomenon is well-known, but the variances in electronic equipment design,
commercial design, and the systems that they are incorporated in, do not
provide us with sufficient information to allow us to accurately predict how
widespread the damage or disruption will be."

>Actually, two of my players in the past have already tried to pass this one
>on me with regards to stuff, but additional research with regards to the
>Earth EM Field have also noted that unless the explosions are in VERY low
>LEO orbit, there isn't nearly as bad a disturbance.


That does not seem to be the attitude taken either by the military or the
government.

>I wasn't talking "Hollywood" H/EMP either mind you. I was supposing that
>transistor tech, or related technologies involving EM field manipulation
>will be necessary for *most* forms of transmittor/receivor technologies.
In
>this case again, with the inclusion of SatLOS technologies, questions are
>raised as to how effective this will all be.


What is this SatLOS you refer to? An EMP mitigation technology or Satellite
Line of Site?

>Actually, the newer GPS are not effected by that kind of activity, but god
>only knows why (actually, I'm sure the people who came up with it do as
>well, but I'm not them either ;-). And again, communications
>constellations have advanced in their abilities to compensate for that
>activity. Anything more than 1000 kilometers from the point of explosive
>release is not likely to be effected.


GPS sats would be disrupted, I don't see how they can get around the massive
electromagnetic shitstorm a nuke would put up. Maybe not for long but
perhaps for long enough to do some evil deed.

EMP: The electromagnetic radiation from a nuclear explosion caused by
Compton-recoil electrons and photoelectrons from photons scattered in the
materials of the nuclear device or in a surrounding medium. The resulting
electric and magnetic fields may couple with electrical/electronic systems
to produce damaging current and voltage surges. May also be caused by
non-nuclear means.

>Again, another indication that the reports aren't entirely up to date.


Again, are you sure about that? I don't remember seeing anything when I was
heavily reading up on this that said it was an negligable threat. Of course
a lot of stuff I read was related to RF "EMP" weapons so fnord.

Kenneth
Message no. 29
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: EMP
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 02:18:57 -0500
From: "Ken Peters" <tzeentch666@*********.net>
Subject: EMP


> It's dated? How so? Where are you getting your EMP info so I can
crossheck?

Most of mine has come from either issues of Popular Science/Mechanics of the
last two years or from reading through the websites of organizations such as
Sony, Winstar (I couldn't believe how much stuff is there to read through),
Motorola, NASA and JPL (among a host of others).

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/security/has280010.000/has280010_0.HTM
> "As you know, the detonation of a nuclear weapon between 50 and several
> hundred kilometers above the Earth's surface will produce an
electromagnetic
> pulse that can, under certain conditions, damage electronic equipment. We
> don't know exactly how much damage can be done to commercial equipment.
The
> phenomenon is well-known, but the variances in electronic equipment
design,
> commercial design, and the systems that they are incorporated in, do not
> provide us with sufficient information to allow us to accurately predict
how
> widespread the damage or disruption will be."

Read that paragraph really nicely again and you'll have a had time ignoring
all the supposition and speculation that is placed. Especially under the
element/terminology of "commercial". THAT right there is where the straying
of events and determination is occuring.

Remember, in SR times, "COMMERCIAL" is also read as "MEGACORPORATE"
Hell,
even in our own times, the corporations such as 3M and .... oh damn it,
can't find any of these notes from my YOTC trace/digging, have developed
mechanisms/technology that have an EMP recovery rate that is measurable in
the microseconds currently.

> >Actually, two of my players in the past have already tried to pass this
one
> >on me with regards to stuff, but additional research with regards to the
> >Earth EM Field have also noted that unless the explosions are in VERY low
> >LEO orbit, there isn't nearly as bad a disturbance.
>
> That does not seem to be the attitude taken either by the military or the
> government.

I am being very careful to skirt those issues. The biggest reason is
because currently the military (in so far as the US is concerned at least)
is no longer releasing documentation with regards to the utilization of
space-borne nuclear armamentation. This includes the effects of nuclear
side-effects (such as H/EMP).

> >I wasn't talking "Hollywood" H/EMP either mind you. I was supposing
that
> >transistor tech, or related technologies involving EM field manipulation
> >will be necessary for *most* forms of transmittor/receivor technologies.
> In
> >this case again, with the inclusion of SatLOS technologies, questions are
> >raised as to how effective this will all be.
>
> What is this SatLOS you refer to? An EMP mitigation technology or
Satellite
> Line of Site?

The latter, with regards to lightwave broadcasting techniques that are now
being implemented that penetrate all current forms of cloud cover known on
earth.

> >Actually, the newer GPS are not effected by that kind of activity, but
god
> >only knows why (actually, I'm sure the people who came up with it do as
> >well, but I'm not them either ;-). And again, communications
> >constellations have advanced in their abilities to compensate for that
> >activity. Anything more than 1000 kilometers from the point of explosive
> >release is not likely to be effected.
>
> GPS sats would be disrupted, I don't see how they can get around the
massive
> electromagnetic shitstorm a nuke would put up. Maybe not for long but
> perhaps for long enough to do some evil deed.

I suppose in an age of micro/nano/picosecond recovery rates, yeah there is
*SOME* interuption I'd grant. But the backups, constellation rerouters
(using familiar terms to us both ;-), and related "alternatives" basically
cause service interuptions of any kind to be almost neglible in all but the
most back-water/unsupported areas of technology.

> EMP: The electromagnetic radiation from a nuclear explosion caused by
> Compton-recoil electrons and photoelectrons from photons scattered in the
> materials of the nuclear device or in a surrounding medium. The resulting
> electric and magnetic fields may couple with electrical/electronic systems
> to produce damaging current and voltage surges. May also be caused by
> non-nuclear means.

Yes, I understand the mechanics quite well ... right up to how to even
utilize that "static" for beneficial uses.

> >Again, another indication that the reports aren't entirely up to date.
>
> Again, are you sure about that? I don't remember seeing anything when I
was
> heavily reading up on this that said it was an negligable threat. Of
course
> a lot of stuff I read was related to RF "EMP" weapons so fnord.

RF??? You lost me right there for some reason. I know I should *know* that
term ... (would bang head on cube, but might wake up the sleeping people
;-)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry
Hoosier Hacker House (http://www.hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Winstar Tech Support and Provisioning (www.winstar.com)
Message no. 30
From: Ken Peters tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: EMP
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 00:43:03 -0700
From: NeoJudas <neojudas@******************.com>
>Most of mine has come from either issues of Popular Science/Mechanics of
the
>last two years or from reading through the websites of organizations such
as
>Sony, Winstar (I couldn't believe how much stuff is there to read through),
>Motorola, NASA and JPL (among a host of others).


And how is PopSci and manufacturer sites any more accurate then the few
sites I listed??

>Read that paragraph really nicely again and you'll have a had time ignoring
>all the supposition and speculation that is placed. Especially under the
>element/terminology of "commercial". THAT right there is where the
straying
>of events and determination is occuring.


Uh, they are vague because noones detonated an nuke to test everything out.

>Remember, in SR times, "COMMERCIAL" is also read as
"MEGACORPORATE" Hell,
>even in our own times, the corporations such as 3M and .... oh damn it,
>can't find any of these notes from my YOTC trace/digging, have developed
>mechanisms/technology that have an EMP recovery rate that is measurable in
>the microseconds currently.


Huh? I think you're confusing EMP with something else like normal power
surges.

>I am being very careful to skirt those issues. The biggest reason is
>because currently the military (in so far as the US is concerned at least)
>is no longer releasing documentation with regards to the utilization of
>space-borne nuclear armamentation. This includes the effects of nuclear
>side-effects (such as H/EMP).


Well the US is signatory to several treaties regarding the weaponization of
space. Hence we can't go around setting off exoatmpsheric nukes "to see what
happens". We know perfectly well what could happen just from simulations and
common sense.

>The latter, with regards to lightwave broadcasting techniques that are now
>being implemented that penetrate all current forms of cloud cover known on
>earth.


You mean microwaves?

>I suppose in an age of micro/nano/picosecond recovery rates, yeah there is
>*SOME* interuption I'd grant. But the backups, constellation rerouters
>(using familiar terms to us both ;-), and related "alternatives" basically
>cause service interuptions of any kind to be almost neglible in all but the
>most back-water/unsupported areas of technology.


Well the EMP would fry any sats in the local area, not just knock them out,
fry them into uselessness. GPS and the like would likely not be overly
affected since they are in MEO and GEO orbits (a LONG ways away from LEO
detonations).

Of course if you're ground station reciever is fried from the pulse its not
going to do you much good.

>Yes, I understand the mechanics quite well ... right up to how to even
>utilize that "static" for beneficial uses.


As in "siphon it off for power"? I don't think thats extremely useful
because of the "static".

>RF??? You lost me right there for some reason. I know I should *know*
that
>term ... (would bang head on cube, but might wake up the sleeping people
>;-)


Radiofrequency weapons. That 20/20 special on EMP guns covered these
(BADLY!). They are not weaponized yet no matter what the Russians claim.
Fnord.

Don;t you read my site man!
http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/fedemp1cop/Science/electromag.htm


Ken
Message no. 31
From: paul collins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject: EMP
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 20:18:32 +1000
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Peters <tzeentch666@*********.net>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2000 1:48 PM
Subject: EMP


> From: NeoJudas <neojudas@******************.com>
>
> EMP
> >> I'm not sure where you are getting the "negligable" effects from
since
> its
> >> totally incorrect. Here are some links:
> >> http://www.house.gov/smbiz/hearings/106th/1999/990601/soper.htm
> >
> >Dated also as the reports are based upon research not inclusive to SatLOS
> >technologies.
>
>
> It's dated? How so? Where are you getting your EMP info so I can
crossheck?
>
>
http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/security/has280010.000/has280010_0.HTM
> "As you know, the detonation of a nuclear weapon between 50 and several
> hundred kilometers above the Earth's surface will produce an
electromagnetic
> pulse that can, under certain conditions, damage electronic equipment. We
> don't know exactly how much damage can be done to commercial equipment.
The
> phenomenon is well-known, but the variances in electronic equipment
design,
> commercial design, and the systems that they are incorporated in, do not
> provide us with sufficient information to allow us to accurately predict
how
> widespread the damage or disruption will be."
>
> >Actually, two of my players in the past have already tried to pass this
one
> >on me with regards to stuff, but additional research with regards to the
> >Earth EM Field have also noted that unless the explosions are in VERY low
> >LEO orbit, there isn't nearly as bad a disturbance.
>
>
> That does not seem to be the attitude taken either by the military or the
> government.
>
> >I wasn't talking "Hollywood" H/EMP either mind you. I was supposing
that
> >transistor tech, or related technologies involving EM field manipulation
> >will be necessary for *most* forms of transmittor/receivor technologies.
> In
> >this case again, with the inclusion of SatLOS technologies, questions are
> >raised as to how effective this will all be.
>
>
> What is this SatLOS you refer to? An EMP mitigation technology or
Satellite
> Line of Site?
>
> >Actually, the newer GPS are not effected by that kind of activity, but
god
> >only knows why (actually, I'm sure the people who came up with it do as
> >well, but I'm not them either ;-). And again, communications
> >constellations have advanced in their abilities to compensate for that
> >activity. Anything more than 1000 kilometers from the point of explosive
> >release is not likely to be effected.
>
>
> GPS sats would be disrupted, I don't see how they can get around the
massive
> electromagnetic shitstorm a nuke would put up. Maybe not for long but
> perhaps for long enough to do some evil deed.
>
> EMP: The electromagnetic radiation from a nuclear explosion caused by
> Compton-recoil electrons and photoelectrons from photons scattered in the
> materials of the nuclear device or in a surrounding medium. The resulting
> electric and magnetic fields may couple with electrical/electronic systems
> to produce damaging current and voltage surges. May also be caused by
> non-nuclear means.
>
> >Again, another indication that the reports aren't entirely up to date.
>
>
> Again, are you sure about that? I don't remember seeing anything when I
was
> heavily reading up on this that said it was an negligable threat. Of
course
> a lot of stuff I read was related to RF "EMP" weapons so fnord.
>
> Kenneth


Well, I've read that a lot of the governments are downplaying the threat
from EMP weapons, coz they realise how vulnerable they are to them. It's
failry easy to make one that will fit in the back of a van, and will do
severe damage to a few city blocks. (Well, to the electronics anyway). Get
it up to a couple of hundred feet, and bye bye city. Anything electronic
may be damaged, unless it's shielding is in damn near perfect order. These
things will sneak through the smallest crack in a case and play havoc.

Annachie




"Fate protects fools, little children and ships named Enterprise" -- Cmdr.
Riker (Contagion)
Message no. 32
From: Jonathan thegreatkraken@**********.net
Subject: EMP
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 14:42:52 +0100
Hi

> Well, I've read that a lot of the governments are downplaying the
threat
> from EMP weapons, coz they realise how vulnerable they are to them.
It's
> failry easy to make one that will fit in the back of a van,

According to a recent New Scientist article (1st July 2000) an EMP
bomb could be made to fit in a briefcase, using explosive flux
compression to create a very powerful burst. One about 200 metres up
could wipe out all electronics within 500m

Some useful sites for E-bomb info

http://www.infowar.com/mil_c4i/mil_c4i8.html-ssi - This one has
pictures

http://www.dallas.net/~pevler/jec.htm - Joint Economic Committee
Hearing Radio Frequency Weapons and Proliferation: Potential Impact on
the Economy

http://www.nawcwpns.navy.mil/~pacrange/news/RFWeap.htm - Some info
on EMP

Jonathan
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Only two things are infinite, the universe
and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the
former."
- Albert Einstein
--------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail me at thegreatkraken@**********.net
Message no. 33
From: Ken Peters tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: EMP
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 13:11:23 -0700
From: paul collins <paulcollins@*******.com>
>Well, I've read that a lot of the governments are downplaying the threat
>from EMP weapons, coz they realise how vulnerable they are to them. It's
>failry easy to make one that will fit in the back of a van, and will do
>severe damage to a few city blocks. (Well, to the electronics anyway).
Get
>it up to a couple of hundred feet, and bye bye city. Anything electronic
>may be damaged, unless it's shielding is in damn near perfect order. These
>things will sneak through the smallest crack in a case and play havoc.


Well they somewhat downplay the threat because noone really knows what would
happen or how its secondary effects would play out.

As for EMP weapons in the back of a van I assume you are referring to the
ever-popular RF weapons. It's NOT something you can go to Radio Shack and
whip up in your spare time. I'd suggest watching the 20/20 episode where
that guy brought the "EMP Gun" and watch it with a critical eye and tell me
its immensely unimpressive. Can black out cities? Please.

As for EMP shielding/hardening.. well its all well and good but noones sure
how well it will work (if at all). Best bet is to have everything encased in
a Farraday Cage or use only vacuum tubes. Failing that, standard EMP
mitigation techniques would be effective against an RF attack (but who knows
how much).

Theres quite a lot of general info on RF weapons on the net but if you'll
look at it closely you'll see a LOT of it is either obvious BS (RF weapons
used as mind control beams) or blown way out of reality (RF weapons can be
built at Radio Shack and shut the nation down).

http://www.soci.niu.edu/~crypt/other/chupax.htm

Ken
Message no. 34
From: Curtis Askren vykar@*****.com
Subject: EMP
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 18:44:48 -0700 (PDT)
Annachie wrote:
>Well, I've read that a lot of the governments are
>downplaying the
>threat
>from EMP weapons, coz they realise how vulnerable
they >are to them.
>It's
>failry easy to make one that will fit in the back of
>van, and will do
>severe damage to a few city blocks.

And i respond thusly:

I read an article last year about a few well known
hackers that went into the data security business. One
of the things they talked about was rigging a van to
do that.
*basics of what i read follow, i'll dig up the article
if i can. this is not a quote*
You take the van, buy a cheap emitter and a few car
batteries to power the thing, park it across the
street of target building. The monkey flips the
switch, and all the hard drives without massive
protection from said device are wiped. Along with the
gonads of the person standing immediately
next/back/front of the emitter. and i think that was
the only drawback of said device (due to emitted
radiation i believe)
If that makes sense, then huzzah!


====Dr.Vyk,
UV scientist and 100th member of the Order

__________________________________________________
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Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere!
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Message no. 35
From: paulcollins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject: EMP
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:03:19 +1000
>===== Original Message From Curtis Askren <vykar@*****.com> ====> Annachie
wrote:
>>Well, I've read that a lot of the governments are
>>downplaying the
>>threat
>>from EMP weapons, coz they realise how vulnerable
>they >are to them.
>>It's
>>failry easy to make one that will fit in the back of
>>van, and will do
>>severe damage to a few city blocks.
>
>And i respond thusly:
>
> I read an article last year about a few well known
>hackers that went into the data security business. One
>of the things they talked about was rigging a van to
>do that.
>*basics of what i read follow, i'll dig up the article
>if i can. this is not a quote*
> You take the van, buy a cheap emitter and a few car
>batteries to power the thing, park it across the
>street of target building. The monkey flips the
>switch, and all the hard drives without massive
>protection from said device are wiped. Along with the
>gonads of the person standing immediately
>next/back/front of the emitter. and i think that was
>the only drawback of said device (due to emitted
>radiation i believe)
>If that makes sense, then huzzah!
>

Well, it does make sense, but it doesn't sound like there is enough oomph
there. You'd need a fair amount of power available. I think it can be done
using gear that is being scrapped today.

<<Thinks and plots>>
Lets see. Take one of those OB vans that you see about, the type that has a
SRT on a pole. (A BRT would be too obvious I think).
Aquire some of the 70's technology radio gear that the telco's are throwing
out. (Some of it is being sold to scrappies, other stuff to 3rd world
countries, etc). Coupla dozen heavy duty car batteries. (The OB van would
already have adequate power I reckon, but hey). The only hard part I can
think of is getting the pulse effect properly. Although at close range with a
powerful focused beam, it might not be needed.
Not sure how much damage this will do to something though

The Gonad thing depends on the frequency that get's emitted. (For mobile
phone frequencies, your gonads, and your eyeballs, are just about the right
size for acting as an antena. Thus they absorb these freq's easily)

<<TLA's explained>>
OB: Outside Broadcast
SRT: Small round thing. Highly technical term for a small microwave dish
BRT: Big round thing. See above, but bigger :o)


Annachie
Message no. 36
From: DemonPenta@***.com DemonPenta@***.com
Subject: EMP
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 23:14:03 EDT
In a message dated 7/9/00 11:07:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
paulcollins@*******.com writes:

> The Gonad thing depends on the frequency that get's emitted. (For mobile
> phone frequencies, your gonads, and your eyeballs, are just about the
right
> size for acting as an antena. Thus they absorb these freq's easily)
>

<whimper> Oh, beautiful. My mom uses cellphones like nuts, so...EEEEEEEK!

John
Message no. 37
From: Ken Peters tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: EMP
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 19:31:04 -0700
From: Curtis Askren <vykar@*****.com>
> I read an article last year about a few well known
>hackers that went into the data security business. One
>of the things they talked about was rigging a van to
>do that.

Hmm, well frankly I tend to take anything said by members of the underground
with a bucket of salt. ;)~

>*basics of what i read follow, i'll dig up the article
>if i can. this is not a quote*
> You take the van, buy a cheap emitter and a few car
>batteries to power the thing, park it across the
>street of target building. The monkey flips the
>switch, and all the hard drives without massive
>protection from said device are wiped. Along with the
>gonads of the person standing immediately
>next/back/front of the emitter. and i think that was
>the only drawback of said device (due to emitted
>radiation i believe)
>If that makes sense, then huzzah!


This sounds like a variation of other stories. Urban legend in the making.

Ken
Message no. 38
From: kawaii trunks@********.org
Subject: EMP
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:37:23 -0400
From: "Ken Peters" <tzeentch666@*********.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2000 10:31 PM


> From: Curtis Askren <vykar@*****.com>
> > I read an article last year about a few well known
> >hackers that went into the data security business. One
> >of the things they talked about was rigging a van to
> >do that.
>
> Hmm, well frankly I tend to take anything said by members of the
underground
> with a bucket of salt. ;)~
>
> >*basics of what i read follow, i'll dig up the article
> >if i can. this is not a quote*
> > You take the van, buy a cheap emitter and a few car
> >batteries to power the thing, park it across the
> >street of target building. The monkey flips the
> >switch, and all the hard drives without massive
> >protection from said device are wiped. Along with the
> >gonads of the person standing immediately
> >next/back/front of the emitter. and i think that was
> >the only drawback of said device (due to emitted
> >radiation i believe)
> >If that makes sense, then huzzah!
>
>
> This sounds like a variation of other stories. Urban legend in the making.
>
> Ken
>
>

Hrm. I was under the impression that for an EMP of significant size to
affect something at that distance, it would require a blast on the scale of
a nuclear device... But then, I'm no EMP expert, so. =P

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 39
From: Ashley Griffiths dagdamor@***********.co.uk
Subject: EMP
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 05:13:24 +0100
> From: Curtis Askren <vykar@*****.com>
> > I read an article last year about a few well known
> >hackers that went into the data security business. One
> >of the things they talked about was rigging a van to
> >do that.
>
> Hmm, well frankly I tend to take anything said by members of the
underground
> with a bucket of salt. ;)~
>
> >*basics of what i read follow, i'll dig up the article
> >if i can. this is not a quote*
> > You take the van, buy a cheap emitter and a few car
> >batteries to power the thing, park it across the
> >street of target building. The monkey flips the
> >switch, and all the hard drives without massive
> >protection from said device are wiped. Along with the
> >gonads of the person standing immediately
> >next/back/front of the emitter. and i think that was
> >the only drawback of said device (due to emitted
> >radiation i believe)
> >If that makes sense, then huzzah!
>
>
> This sounds like a variation of other stories. Urban legend in the making.
>
> Ken


EMP's are used today by the SAS. Standard SAS EMP is a slightly larger than
normal briefcase carrying two large batteries adn a very poweful capacitor.
The case itself is used as the emitter. It has a very limited range (about
10 metres) and so is useless unless you can get it into the room of the
place you wish to use it Or the target is incredibly sensitive to EM
disturbances e.g Digital Phone Exchanges.

Oh and yes it does screw with your manhood. But it is usually fitted with a
time delay to allow people to get out of the way before it releases its
pulse.

Dagda Mor

What was once proved is now only imagined.
Message no. 40
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: EMP
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:16:26 -0500
From: Ashley Griffiths <dagdamor@***********.co.uk>

:EMP's are used today by the SAS. Standard SAS EMP is a slightly larger
than
:normal briefcase carrying two large batteries adn a very poweful capacitor.
:The case itself is used as the emitter. It has a very limited range (about
:10 metres) and so is useless unless you can get it into the room of the
:place you wish to use it Or the target is incredibly sensitive to EM
:disturbances e.g Digital Phone Exchanges.
:
:Oh and yes it does screw with your manhood. But it is usually fitted with
a
:time delay to allow people to get out of the way before it releases its
:pulse.
:
:Dagda Mor

Are you sure that is true EMP (elctro-magnetic pulse), and not HERF
(high energy radio frequency)? EMP would not, to my knowledge, require
large batteries- the capacitor would be charged and discharged only once.
Indeed, the batteries would pretty much be dead weight, and would be best
put in a seperate unit that is disconnected before use. HERF is quite
similar, but much easier to engeneer, and involves multiple (smaller) charge
/ discharge cycles, often timed to intefere with clock cycles or radio
frequencies.

Mongoose


_______________________________________________
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Message no. 41
From: Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: EMP
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:29:47 -0700
From: "Ashley Griffiths" <dagdamor@***********.co.uk>
> EMP's are used today by the SAS. Standard SAS EMP is a slightly larger
than
> normal briefcase carrying two large batteries adn a very poweful
capacitor.
> The case itself is used as the emitter. It has a very limited range
(about
> 10 metres) and so is useless unless you can get it into the room of the
> place you wish to use it Or the target is incredibly sensitive to EM
> disturbances e.g Digital Phone Exchanges.

Is there any information on this weapon? I'm assuming its some sort of RF
weapon by the description you gave.

It's name and appearance in Janes would be nice if available, or at least
some reference that can be checked beyond the "well a friend I know said.."

> Oh and yes it does screw with your manhood. But it is usually fitted with
a
> time delay to allow people to get out of the way before it releases its
> pulse.

Well I would hope so.

Ken
---------------------------
There's a war out there, old friend, a world war. And it's not about who's
got the most bullets, it's about who controls the information. What we see
and hear, how we work, what we think, it's all about the information!
Cosmo, 'Sneakers'
Message no. 42
From: Ashley Griffiths dagdamor@***********.co.uk
Subject: EMP
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 10:05:20 +0100
> Are you sure that is true EMP (elctro-magnetic pulse), and not HERF
> (high energy radio frequency)? EMP would not, to my knowledge, require
> large batteries- the capacitor would be charged and discharged only once.
> Indeed, the batteries would pretty much be dead weight, and would be best
> put in a seperate unit that is disconnected before use. HERF is quite
> similar, but much easier to engeneer, and involves multiple (smaller)
charge
> / discharge cycles, often timed to intefere with clock cycles or radio
> frequencies.


NO its definitely a EMP it does pulse just the once. In fact I have a bit
more info. It isn't used alot except in desperate situations as they have
found out that dielectric breakdwn often occurs regaurdless of the working
voltage of the capacitor at the very high voltages that they use. I didn't
think it sounded right but hey I slept through all my lectures on
electronics.

Dagda Mor

What was once proved is now only imagined
Message no. 43
From: shadowrn@*********.com (John)
Subject: EMP
Date: Sat Nov 17 23:35:01 2001
I just had a thought, are there any rules regarding EMP in any of the books?
I don't recall running across them.

Should modern electronics be shielded from it and if so, wouldn't a more
powerful EMP/Microwave weapon have been (or is being) designed ? After
all, there is a vicious cycle of weapon versus armor and their ever
increasing capabilities.

Thanks for any suggestions
John
Message no. 44
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject: EMP
Date: Sun Nov 18 08:05:01 2001
John wrote:

> Should modern electronics be shielded from it and if so, wouldn't a more
> powerful EMP/Microwave weapon have been (or is being) designed ? After
> all, there is a vicious cycle of weapon versus armor and their ever
> increasing capabilities.

By 2060, at least in the SR timeline, there has been a major shift to
optical computing and signaling. While this doesn't completely
eliminate the need for electronics, it does reduce the susceptability of
major systems to EMP. If it's military/security equipment, I would
believe that the electronics are shielded.

Yes there could be a more powerful weapon capable of disrupting optical
signals, but it would most likely do this through destruction of the
medium. I don't know if microwaves would be good enough for that, and I
don't know what would be used.



--
Iridios
--
From:The Top 100 Things I'd Do
If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord
(http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html)

If my trusted lieutenant tells me my Legions of Terror are
losing a battle, I will believe him. After all, he's my trusted
lieutenant.

Used Without Permission
Message no. 45
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: EMP
Date: Sun Nov 18 12:55:01 2001
Iridios wrote:

> If it's military/security equipment, I would believe that the electronics are
shielded.

IRRC wasn't it mentioned in a couple of SB's years ago something about certain systems,
ususally military, that were Tempest shielded ie. they were kept disconnected from the
matrix and shielded against EMP attack? Or maybe it was from the novels?

Either way, you don't usually shield against something that wont hurt normal systems, so
you can surmise that there's still an arms race going on.
Message no. 46
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Oliver McDonald)
Subject: EMP
Date: Sun Nov 18 14:50:01 2001
On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 23:38:05 -0500, John wrote:

>I just had a thought, are there any rules regarding EMP in any of the books?
>I don't recall running across them.
>
>Should modern electronics be shielded from it and if so, wouldn't a more
>powerful EMP/Microwave weapon have been (or is being) designed ? After
>all, there is a vicious cycle of weapon versus armor and their ever
>increasing capabilities.


Well, actually, there is a mention that since most of the circuits are now optical, they
are mostly shielded vs. EMP.

But on a more prosaic note, in current days most fighter aircraft are EMP hardened to
withstand the EMP of a close
multi-megaton nuclear explosion. There is no way on earth that you are going to be able
to generate and EMP pulse stronger
than that. Ever. Unless you want to set off a 100+ megaton blast, and that WILL get you
noticed.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://www.spydernet.com/oliver/
-----------------------------------------------------------
Space. The Final Frontier. Let's not close it down.
Brought to you via CyberSpace, the recursive frontier.

"that is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may
die."
-H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu."


And remember that snowmen fall from Heaven unassembled.
Message no. 47
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject: EMP
Date: Sun Nov 18 15:00:01 2001
flakjacket@***********.com wrote:
>
> Iridios wrote:
>
> > If it's military/security equipment, I would believe that the electronics are
shielded.
>
> IRRC wasn't it mentioned in a couple of SB's years ago something about certain
systems, ususally military, >that were Tempest shielded ie. they were kept disconnected
from the matrix and shielded against EMP attack?

Tempest shielding is to mask reduce outgoing stray signals, to keep
outsiders from listening in or HARM weapons from locking on. Tempest
shielding, IIRC, does not keep out EMP pulses, but might work to reduce
their strength.

>
> Either way, you don't usually shield against something that wont hurt normal systems,
so you can surmise >that there's still an arms race going on.

Of course, but the emphasis on EMP should be considerably less.


--
Iridios
--
From:The Top 100 Things I'd Do
If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord
(http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html)

If an attractive young couple enters my realm, I will carefully
monitor their activities. If I find they are happy and
affectionate, I will ignore them. However if circumstance have
forced them together against their will and they spend all their
time bickering and criticizing each other except during the
intermittent occasions when they are saving each others' lives
at which point there are hints of sexual tension, I will
immediately order their execution.

Used Without Permission
Message no. 48
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jonathan Choy)
Subject: EMP
Date: Mon Nov 19 11:40:01 2001
On Sunday 18 November 2001 12:54 pm, you wrote:
> Iridios wrote:
> > If it's military/security equipment, I would believe that the electronics
> > are shielded.
>
> IRRC wasn't it mentioned in a couple of SB's years ago something about
> certain systems, ususally military, that were Tempest shielded ie. they
> were kept disconnected from the matrix and shielded against EMP attack? Or
> maybe it was from the novels?
>
> Either way, you don't usually shield against something that wont hurt
> normal systems, so you can surmise that there's still an arms race going
> on.

TEMPEST is not a shielding from EMP.

Good page detailing FOIA requested information released by the NSA on TEMPEST
and NONSTOP, both standards for data security in the sense of not having the
data be interceptible from a end-user terminal or radio receiver - details at
http://www.eskimo.com/~joelm/tempest.html and its links. Cryptome.org has
some good information as well, linked through from the site at Eskimo.

Jon
Message no. 49
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: EMP
Date: Wed Nov 21 12:40:01 2001
In article <4105441.1006106044323.JavaMail.root@***.0.0.1>,
flakjacket@***********.com writes
>Iridios wrote:
>> If it's military/security equipment, I would believe that the
>>electronics are shielded.
>
>IRRC wasn't it mentioned in a couple of SB's years ago something about
>certain systems, ususally military, that were Tempest shielded ie. they
>were kept disconnected from the matrix and shielded against EMP attack?
>Or maybe it was from the novels?

Military kit definitely is shielded against EMP, whose effects tend to
be overstated. (A bigger problem is actually TREE - Transient Radiation
Effects on Electronics. Fast neutrons do horrible things to
semiconductors.)


--
Paul J. Adam

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