Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jane VR)
Subject: Engulf power & willpower attacks
Date: Thu Dec 6 17:45:01 2001
Hi all,

Can someone please help me out with the Engulf power that elementals can use
because I don't quite follow it. The rules say: "The engulf attack is a
melee attack. The spirit uses its Quickness to hit the target (instead of
Reaction). Targets must counterattack successfully to avoid engulfment. If
the victim is engulfed the effects vary. Every time it is the victim's
action, he or she can try to escape. Make an opposed test using the victim's
Strength and the spirit's Force. If the victim wins, freedom! On each of the
spirit's actions, the victim must resist appropriate damage."

My questions in what way is the engulf attack like a melee attack?
specifically
Can the spirit use Combat Pool for the initial attempt to engulf?

Can the target counterattack successfully if they don't have a melee weapon
capable of harming the spirit?
If they did counterattack successfully, would they cause damage if they had
a weapon capable of harming the spirit?

And another question
Can an engulfed vicitm perform any other actions other than trying to break
free (e.g. pull the trigger of a pistol they are holding, cast a spell, or
astrally project).

On attacking spirits with Willpower the rules say: "The character uses
Willpower to make a melee attack against the spirit (Combat pool dice may
not be used). The character can wield a weapon, although mundane weapons do
not affect the base damage (the weapon is only a symbol of the fighter's
will, it has no actual affect in this type of combat). However, the weapon's
Reach bonus does apply. If the character succeeds, he does (Charisma)M Stun
damage. The Spirit may use only its Force to reduce the damage; the spirit
may not use Combat pool and armour does not protect against such attacks"

Again, in what way is this a melee attack? Can the spirit counterattack in
any way? Do the melee modifiers (e.g. friends in melee) apply?

Can anyone help?

Thanks,
Jane

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Burning Avatar)
Subject: Engulf power & willpower attacks
Date: Fri Dec 7 04:25:00 2001
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On 06-Dec-01 Jane VR wrote:
<snip>
> My questions in what way is the engulf attack like a melee attack?
> specifically
> Can the spirit use Combat Pool for the initial attempt to engulf?

As spirits have one and this is an attack I would say yes.

> Can the target counterattack successfully if they don't have a melee
> weapon
> capable of harming the spirit?
> If they did counterattack successfully, would they cause damage if
> they had
> a weapon capable of harming the spirit?

Two times yes IMO. If the weapon can't harm the spirit, the
counterattack is good enough that the defender isn't engulfed.

> And another question
> Can an engulfed vicitm perform any other actions other than trying
> to break
> free (e.g. pull the trigger of a pistol they are holding, cast a
> spell, or
> astrally project).

I don't know. Propably I won't allow any other actions than trying to
break because of the human survival instinct or so.

<snip the other description>

> Again, in what way is this a melee attack? Can the spirit
> counterattack in
> any way? Do the melee modifiers (e.g. friends in melee) apply?

Again a two times yes IMO

> Can anyone help?

Perhaps I could ;?)

> Thanks,
> Jane

- - Burning Avatar

- ----------------------------------
Ona galad a naur i lumbulo

BA's data haven
http://home.t-online.de/home/tobias.d/srmain.htm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.1e-SuSE (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Weitere Infos: siehe http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8EIqdZGcehYJc4AcRAiXLAJ9VrOC1E9XSiBIyynogI5he7aNtggCfT9PP
nhO+no3ASCAA0vgGHH6ncpQÚpY
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Engulf power & willpower attacks
Date: Fri Dec 7 13:55:00 2001
On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Jane VR wrote:

> My questions in what way is the engulf attack like a melee attack?
> specifically
> Can the spirit use Combat Pool for the initial attempt to engulf?

my interpretation is that to resolve it, you use the melee rules, as
opposed to having another set of rules to worry about, and by stating that
it uses the melee combat rules, it means other melee combat mods etc also
apply..

>
> Can the target counterattack successfully if they don't have a melee weapon
> capable of harming the spirit?
> If they did counterattack successfully, would they cause damage if they had
> a weapon capable of harming the spirit?
>

my thoughts would be yes, they could cause damage with a magical weapon,
but not with a mundane one..

> And another question
> Can an engulfed vicitm perform any other actions other than trying to break
> free (e.g. pull the trigger of a pistol they are holding, cast a spell, or
> astrally project).

I'd say yes to this, theres tons of dramatic potential there, and after
all, they dont *have* to fight back or resist...:-)

>
> On attacking spirits with Willpower the rules say: "The character uses
> Willpower to make a melee attack against the spirit (Combat pool dice may
> not be used). The character can wield a weapon, although mundane weapons do
> not affect the base damage (the weapon is only a symbol of the fighter's
> will, it has no actual affect in this type of combat). However, the weapon's
> Reach bonus does apply. If the character succeeds, he does (Charisma)M Stun
> damage. The Spirit may use only its Force to reduce the damage; the spirit
> may not use Combat pool and armour does not protect against such attacks"
>
> Again, in what way is this a melee attack? Can the spirit counterattack in
> any way? Do the melee modifiers (e.g. friends in melee) apply?
>

this is basically a rule to apply damage (you're not so much hitting them
with your weapon as using your weapon as an extentsion of your intent, or
willpower, so normal combat mods, apart from damage, which is calculated
as above..

IMHO, anyway, YMMV....

--
john@*****.net
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."
federal general Sedgwick at battle of Spottslvainia, 1864
SRGC SR1+ SR3++ !SR2 h b++ B--- UB IE+ RN+ !W ma+++ gm M-- P-
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jane VR)
Subject: Engulf power & willpower attacks
Date: Fri Dec 7 19:30:01 2001
> > My questions in what way is the engulf attack like a melee attack?
> > specifically
> > Can the spirit use Combat Pool for the initial attempt to engulf?
>
>my interpretation is that to resolve it, you use the melee rules, as
>opposed to having another set of rules to worry about, and by stating that
>it uses the melee combat rules, it means other melee combat mods etc also
>apply..
>

ok, cool.

>this is basically a rule to apply damage (you're not so much hitting them
>with your weapon as using your weapon as an extentsion of your intent, or
>willpower, so normal combat mods, apart from damage, which is calculated
>as above..

so does the spirit counterattack with its combat skill? It seems weird that
it can counter a mental attack with a physical skill. OTOH, if it doesn't
then it has no way to defend itself, which seems a bit rough...

jane


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Engulf power & willpower attacks
Date: Mon Dec 10 06:25:05 2001
Jconstable@*****.com writes:

> my thoughts would be yes, they could cause damage with a magical weapon,
> but not with a mundane one..

Well, they could affect the spirit with mundane weapons if they were
good/lucky enough. The same as per the normal rules, I would think.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GE d- s++:-- a25 C++ US++>+++ P+ L+>++ E- W+ N++ o@ K- w+(--) O-@ M--
V- PS+ PE- Y+ PGP-@>++ t+ 5 X+>+++ R++ !tv(--) b+ DI+++@ D G+
e++>++++$ h- r++>+++ y->+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Engulf power & willpower attacks
Date: Mon Dec 10 06:30:05 2001
Jane VR writes:

> so does the spirit counterattack with its combat skill? It seems weird that
> it can counter a mental attack with a physical skill. OTOH, if it doesn't
> then it has no way to defend itself, which seems a bit rough...

It's described as a melee attack, so I'd imagine that the spirit would be
able to counterattack as normal. The attacker is still attacking in melee
combat (for example, they are still trying to stab the spirit with their
knife), they are just doing "emotional" damage rather than physical damage
to the spirit. It's not as if they're massaging their temples and launching
a psi bolt at the spirit with their mind or anything ;-).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GE d- s++:-- a25 C++ US++>+++ P+ L+>++ E- W+ N++ o@ K- w+(--) O-@ M--
V- PS+ PE- Y+ PGP-@>++ t+ 5 X+>+++ R++ !tv(--) b+ DI+++@ D G+
e++>++++$ h- r++>+++ y->+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jane VR)
Subject: Engulf power & willpower attacks
Date: Tue Dec 11 00:40:01 2001
>From: Damion Milliken <dam01@***.edu.au>

>
>It's described as a melee attack, so I'd imagine that the spirit would be
>able to counterattack as normal. The attacker is still attacking in melee
>combat (for example, they are still trying to stab the spirit with their
>knife), they are just doing "emotional" damage rather than physical damage
>to the spirit. It's not as if they're massaging their temples and launching
>a psi bolt at the spirit with their mind or anything ;-).

Ok, I get it now. It sounds like an almost unconscious attack on the
person's part, like they may not even be aware they are doing it. Thanks for
the explanantion.

jane


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Engulf power & willpower attacks, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!