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Message no. 1
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 07:43:02 -0500
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 6:58 AM

> Not really... More someone who reads too many popular books and watches
> too many popular movies, and then wants things like that in the game as
> well. A few examples: a weapon that shoots about 6 darts with monowire
> strung between them (he has a monowire obsession...); something that
> shoots a monowire to each side to set up a quick trap (much of like one
of
> Batman's toys, but with monowire); a staff with a taser, unfolding
blades,
> a gas sprayer, and the aforementioned dart-net-gun in it; etc.

> The problem is that I try to aim for a bit of realism in the game, and
> that I don't _like_ toys like this -- I keep thinking to myself "Why
> doesn't het just buy a Predator like everyon else and be done with all
> this bullshit?" :)

I always tell my players upfront that I play a gritty game and that while a
smidgen of epic is okay, epic characters/backgrounds/weapons/scenarios are
a big no-no. Why? Well, you give one good example above...the whole
batman-esque equipment thing is annoying. People don't usually grab just
how difficult it is to work with monowire. Like last night, a player
stated that his security system on his van would include monowire strung
across the door. I asked him if he *liked* taking about half an hour
getting into his vehicle every time. Why? Well, without cutting it (and
thus having to get rid of the snipped wire because it's no longer long
enough to stretch the gap of the doorframe), it would realistically take
quite a bit of time to unsecure it all without losing your fingers, etc.

A little logic and reason goes a long way when GMing. I have learned that
players will respect your decisions more when you can explain to them the
reality behind the situation accurately. Then there are the munchkins, but
they're never happy, so it doesn't really matter. ;)

> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116

Justin :)
Message no. 2
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:13:11 EST
I am warning everyone now, Someone's Epic is Another Persons' Nightlife...

In a message dated 98-01-26 07:44:36 EST, vanyel@*******.NET writes:

> I always tell my players upfront that I play a gritty game and that while a
> smidgen of epic is okay, epic characters/backgrounds/weapons/scenarios are
> a big no-no. Why? Well, you give one good example above...the whole
> batman-esque equipment thing is annoying. People don't usually grab just
> how difficult it is to work with monowire. Like last night, a player
> stated that his security system on his van would include monowire strung
> across the door. I asked him if he *liked* taking about half an hour
> getting into his vehicle every time. Why? Well, without cutting it (and
> thus having to get rid of the snipped wire because it's no longer long
> enough to stretch the gap of the doorframe), it would realistically take
> quite a bit of time to unsecure it all without losing your fingers, etc.

Yes, but this runs both ways guys. Sure, it's nice to have "stock SR" or
"low
powered SR", but what Justin here has so dubbed "epic" isn't...

It would take no longer than normal to get into the car btw. How's this for a
response to the guy with the "Monowire Attachment to Vehicle Security".

Said individual has a car, within it's door frame are 2-3 small pairs of
magneto-clips, one on the door, one on the frame. If the security on the car
says "this is a friend", they stay off, and the pairs remain unmoved (both
pieces to each pair on the frame for example). If the security says "bad
guy", then the clips go on, and when the door opens, one half of each pair is
now attached to the door. (this doesn't need magnets btw, I was just looking
at a quick analogy) As the door opens, the monowire "fence" is being
stretched from little retractable rollers in the frame across the access...

Yep, this'll work and with no fragging difficulty either...

> A little logic and reason goes a long way when GMing. I have learned that
> players will respect your decisions more when you can explain to them the
> reality behind the situation accurately. Then there are the munchkins, but
> they're never happy, so it doesn't really matter. ;)

And then there are those that want something different...they can be made
happy, but it takes compromise on the part of the GM.

> > Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
> Justin :)

-Keith
Message no. 3
From: Kristling Ravenwing <kristling@*******.CROSSWINDS.NET>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:02:38 -0500
> I am warning everyone now, Someone's Epic is Another Persons'
Nightlife...
>
> In a message dated 98-01-26 07:44:36 EST, vanyel@*******.NET writes:
>
> Yes, but this runs both ways guys. Sure, it's nice to have "stock SR" or
"low
> powered SR", but what Justin here has so dubbed "epic" isn't...
>
> It would take no longer than normal to get into the car btw. How's this
for a
> response to the guy with the "Monowire Attachment to Vehicle Security".
>
> Said individual has a car, within it's door frame are 2-3 small pairs of
> magneto-clips, one on the door, one on the frame. If the security on the
car
> says "this is a friend", they stay off, and the pairs remain unmoved
(both
> pieces to each pair on the frame for example). If the security says "bad
> guy", then the clips go on, and when the door opens, one half of each
pair is
> now attached to the door. (this doesn't need magnets btw, I was just
looking
> at a quick analogy) As the door opens, the monowire "fence" is being
> stretched from little retractable rollers in the frame across the
access...
>
> Yep, this'll work and with no fragging difficulty either...
i'd wonder how the hang you'd keep the wires from cutting the rollers...
And, Keith, how the hang do you get it to strech taunt?
>
> And then there are those that want something different...they can be made
> happy, but it takes compromise on the part of the GM.
Yes, but if the difference conflicts with ground rules the GM made at the
begining, and everyone agreed to, there'd better be a good reason for the
comprimise.
> > > Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html -
UIN5044116
> > Justin :)
>
> -Keith
>>>>>["Oh, look, piddies!"
Reach me at kristling@*******.crosswinds.net
ICQ UIN: 6642462
www.crosswind.com/toronto/~kristling/ should soon hold my webpage.]<<<<<
--Kristling (the Weird) Ravenwing, Aka Daniel Sauve (say "SO-
vey"!), Josha Dube, Ken masters, D, Samson Primal, Josha the Strange,
Dexter, Ricochet..... </>
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:14:24 +0100
Justin Pinnow said on 7:43/26 Jan 98...

> I always tell my players upfront that I play a gritty game and that while a
> smidgen of epic is okay, epic characters/backgrounds/weapons/scenarios are
> a big no-no. Why? Well, you give one good example above...the whole
> batman-esque equipment thing is annoying.

It is, yes, but the problem is that it's all _possible_ with a little
work. For example, the dart-monowire-net gun -- all it does is shoot six
darts that have a bit of wire strung between them. Likewise the Batman
toy I mentioned.

My attempts to not give him these things revolve around them having to be
custom-made, and so they'll cost a lot of money, and they won't be as
reliable as he thinks they are. For example, a staff with lots of gadgets
in it -- I have this feeling it will break if he hits it hard against
something...

That's not just evil GMing, BTW, it's because often something that
consists of lots of different sections tends to be a bit wobbly unless you
_really_ know what you're doing when you make it.

> People don't usually grab just how difficult it is to work with
> monowire. Like last night, a player stated that his security system on
> his van would include monowire strung across the door. I asked him if
> he *liked* taking about half an hour getting into his vehicle every
> time. Why? Well, without cutting it (and thus having to get rid of the
> snipped wire because it's no longer long enough to stretch the gap of
> the doorframe), it would realistically take quite a bit of time to
> unsecure it all without losing your fingers, etc.

Like Keith said, there's an easy soluton here as well. In my game, I can
usually restrain myself from suggesting which improvements I can think of,
on the basis that if the player can't, the character won't either.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
People who live in glass houses ...
... should turn out the lights before they undress.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 5
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:57:26 -0500
At 09:13 AM 1/26/98 EST, you wrote:

>Yes, but this runs both ways guys. Sure, it's nice to have "stock SR" or
"low
>powered SR", but what Justin here has so dubbed "epic" isn't...
>
>It would take no longer than normal to get into the car btw. How's this
for a
>response to the guy with the "Monowire Attachment to Vehicle Security".

One reason for ruling that this isn't so easy as it may sound: Does anyone
want lots of monowire security systems in their SR world? They become
really not-fun stuff quickly. They're like gas attacks, not easy to defend
against, and can very easily kill characters or NPCs.

>And then there are those that want something different...they can be made
>happy, but it takes compromise on the part of the GM.

The GM gets to make decisions about what is or is not plausible in the
game. That is the GM's job, in fact, and one of the more fun things about
running, as opposed to playing, you get to put your own view of things to
work. I had a player try for the "super hero" effect in a campaign I ran,
and it only worked out because he 1) wasn't as much of a do-gooder in
tactics as he let on, and 2) his do-gooder antics got him into deep drek
that the other players got a good laugh out of... Most SR I've played in,
players get laughed at a bit when they suggest superhero gadgets, if only
because they clash with the genre. Also, I don't want to have to subject
the PCs to traps laid with monofilament, getting their limbs unzipped and
the like, but if the PCs _regularly_ use this stuff, I'd feel obligated to.
Monowire cuts in all directions, after all. :)

losthalo
Message no. 6
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:05:49 -0500
On Mon, Jan 26, 1998 at 03:57:26PM -0500, losthalo wrote:
> At 09:13 AM 1/26/98 EST, you wrote:
>
> >Yes, but this runs both ways guys. Sure, it's nice to have "stock SR"
or
> "low
> >powered SR", but what Justin here has so dubbed "epic" isn't...
> >
> >It would take no longer than normal to get into the car btw. How's this
> for a
> >response to the guy with the "Monowire Attachment to Vehicle Security".
>
> One reason for ruling that this isn't so easy as it may sound: Does anyone
> want lots of monowire security systems in their SR world? They become
> really not-fun stuff quickly. They're like gas attacks, not easy to defend
> against, and can very easily kill characters or NPCs.
>
> >And then there are those that want something different...they can be made
> >happy, but it takes compromise on the part of the GM.
>
> The GM gets to make decisions about what is or is not plausible in the
> game. That is the GM's job, in fact, and one of the more fun things about
> running, as opposed to playing, you get to put your own view of things to
> work. I had a player try for the "super hero" effect in a campaign I ran,
> and it only worked out because he 1) wasn't as much of a do-gooder in
> tactics as he let on, and 2) his do-gooder antics got him into deep drek
> that the other players got a good laugh out of... Most SR I've played in,
> players get laughed at a bit when they suggest superhero gadgets, if only
> because they clash with the genre. Also, I don't want to have to subject
> the PCs to traps laid with monofilament, getting their limbs unzipped and
> the like, but if the PCs _regularly_ use this stuff, I'd feel obligated to.
> Monowire cuts in all directions, after all. :)
>
This goes back to the rule. If the players can use it, so can the NPC's.
It solves monowire, panther assault cannons, etc fairly quick, and seems
to apply to most RPG games. :)


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people are alive, only because its illegal to kill them.
Message no. 7
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:53:26 -0700
Lehlan Decker wrote:
/
/ This goes back to the rule. If the players can use it, so can the NPC's.
/ It solves monowire, panther assault cannons, etc fairly quick, and seems
/ to apply to most RPG games. :)

True, true. Hopefully the players catch on before the escelation
gets out of hand and everyone gets down to roleplaying.

Also, be wary of the rule: If the GM builds it, the players will use
it.

:)

-David
--
"Courage is grace under pressure."
- Earnest Hemingway
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 8
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:57:24 -0500
On Mon, Jan 26, 1998 at 02:53:26PM -0700, David Buehrer wrote:
> Lehlan Decker wrote:
> /
> / This goes back to the rule. If the players can use it, so can the NPC's.
> / It solves monowire, panther assault cannons, etc fairly quick, and seems
> / to apply to most RPG games. :)
>
> True, true. Hopefully the players catch on before the escelation
> gets out of hand and everyone gets down to roleplaying.
>
> Also, be wary of the rule: If the GM builds it, the players will use
> it.
>
Isn't that the truth. I once had players, who went out of their
way to cripple and not kill bad guys, so they could have their
toys. :) I eventually cured them of that, but it took time and
a different gaming system. Too bad there aren't the equivalent of
"rust monsters" in SR. Hmm...although I guess most hardware is made
of non-ferrous compounds. STill.....perhaps a metal eating monster.
I'll think on it. <EGMG> I'm off to try and stay awake in class. Later
all.


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people are alive, only because its illegal to kill them.
Message no. 9
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:03:32 -0700
Lehlan Decker wrote:
/
/ On Mon, Jan 26, 1998 at 02:53:26PM -0700, David Buehrer wrote:
/ >
/ > Also, be wary of the rule: If the GM builds it, the players will use
/ > it.
/ >
/ Isn't that the truth. I once had players, who went out of their
/ way to cripple and not kill bad guys, so they could have their
/ toys. :) I eventually cured them of that, but it took time and
/ a different gaming system. Too bad there aren't the equivalent of
/ "rust monsters" in SR. Hmm...although I guess most hardware is made
/ of non-ferrous compounds. STill.....perhaps a metal eating monster.
/ I'll think on it. <EGMG> I'm off to try and stay awake in class. Later
/ all.

Remember the Brain Mole from AD$D? Make the same critter that
feeds/drains neuroelectrical energy from it's victims. It's easier
for the mole to feed of of cyber-enhanced characters because the ware
"bleeds" neuroenergy. The more ware, the easier for the mole (this
would be a form of essence drain).

Have fun.

-David
--
"Courage is grace under pressure."
- Earnest Hemingway
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 10
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:12:32 -0500
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 2:14 PM

> Justin Pinnow said on 7:43/26 Jan 98...

> > I always tell my players upfront that I play a gritty game and that
while a
> > smidgen of epic is okay, epic characters/backgrounds/weapons/scenarios
are
> > a big no-no. Why? Well, you give one good example above...the whole
> > batman-esque equipment thing is annoying.

> It is, yes, but the problem is that it's all _possible_ with a little
> work. For example, the dart-monowire-net gun -- all it does is shoot six
> darts that have a bit of wire strung between them. Likewise the Batman
> toy I mentioned.

To a point, I agree with you. The example about how to rig monowire on a
car door as a security precaution is entirely possible. However, what
would the reprocussions be? Since the player didn't have any suggestions
to the contrary, the only method available to him would be to string it
across the door. This would cause him to take lots of time getting in his
vehicle. If the player would have come up with a better method of doing
this, I would have considered the possiblity - but he didn't. That's the
point. I'm not going to create your toys for you - that's your job. ;)

And then there are the social consequences of said actions. What does it
say about your personality when you have monowire *on your car*?! I mean,
the word "paranoid" comes to mind really fast. Not to mention the obvious
tip off to any car thief that this piece of metal and/or its contents is
probably worth a fortune. And what would the player say if his jury-rigged
security system were to malfunction once? Oops, I guess.

But, see, things like batman toys are the wrong genre for a more "mundane"
or "gritty" campaign, IMO. They're too fantastic. Just like really
powerful foci and high-grade Initiates. Sure, it's fun to watch, but it
gets really old after awhile and forces me as the GM to run a more epic
campaign....which I don't want to do.

So, if a character has a cool idea for a new weapon, that's great - but how
functional is it? How will he make it? Does he have a lab and the
resources to design and build weapons? If so, why the heck is he a
shadowrunner anyway? He can make a lot more money doing work that's a lot
less lethal.

If the aforementioned character monowiring his vehicle would have had an
Electronics Build/Repair skill (with a concentration in Security Systems),
I might have considered his desire for such a security measure more
seriously, but he didn't. Thus, he wasn't roleplaying, he was creating
toys that only fit the player, not the character.

> My attempts to not give him these things revolve around them having to be
> custom-made, and so they'll cost a lot of money, and they won't be as
> reliable as he thinks they are. For example, a staff with lots of gadgets
> in it -- I have this feeling it will break if he hits it hard against
> something...

> That's not just evil GMing, BTW, it's because often something that
> consists of lots of different sections tends to be a bit wobbly unless
you
> _really_ know what you're doing when you make it.

True. I agree with you here as well.

> > People don't usually grab just how difficult it is to work with
> > monowire. Like last night, a player stated that his security system on
> > his van would include monowire strung across the door. I asked him if
> > he *liked* taking about half an hour getting into his vehicle every
> > time. Why? Well, without cutting it (and thus having to get rid of
the
> > snipped wire because it's no longer long enough to stretch the gap of
> > the doorframe), it would realistically take quite a bit of time to
> > unsecure it all without losing your fingers, etc.

> Like Keith said, there's an easy soluton here as well. In my game, I can
> usually restrain myself from suggesting which improvements I can think
of,
> on the basis that if the player can't, the character won't either.

That's half of it. The other half is that I don't want a game ridden with
neat-o gadgets, etc. And once you see one player with one, they all start
getting them, etc. It just gets out of hand after that. It's just plain
easier to stick with more mundane items, IMO. Unless you want to play
Champions, of course. ;)

> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116

Justin :)
Message no. 11
From: Kevin R Mohondro <mohkev@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:17:43 -0800
> From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
> Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 3:12 PM
>

[SNIP]

> And then there are the social consequences of said actions. What does
it
> say about your personality when you have monowire *on your car*?! I
mean,
> the word "paranoid" comes to mind really fast. Not to mention the
obvious
> tip off to any car thief that this piece of metal and/or its contents is
> probably worth a fortune. And what would the player say if his
jury-rigged
> security system were to malfunction once? Oops, I guess.

I told one of my players, the rigger as a matter of fact, that he was just
being paranoid about something. His response was "You're not paranoid if
they _ARE_ out to get you!"

> Justin :)

--
-Moe
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin R Mohondro mohkev@******.com
Software Engineer
SalePoint/Retail Interact (619) 552-2026
Message no. 12
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:09:00 EST
In a message dated 98-01-26 13:03:11 EST, kristling@*******.CROSSWINDS.NET
writes:

> > Yep, this'll work and with no fragging difficulty either...
> i'd wonder how the hang you'd keep the wires from cutting the rollers...

Answer #1, simple...Monowire does crap against anything "hardened", so the
roller feeds are simply stainless steel or something similar...

> And, Keith, how the hang do you get it to strech taunt?

Answer #2, simple again...reflex tension mounts...similar mechanism to what a
"Safety Belt" in most cars use now (but the name is different). Whenever a
"quick jerky action" occurs, the rollers lock into place (roll speed set to a
specific threshold I'd suppose). And the rewind release is part of the door
handle...

> > And then there are those that want something different...they can be made
> > happy, but it takes compromise on the part of the GM.
> Yes, but if the difference conflicts with ground rules the GM made at the
> begining, and everyone agreed to, there'd better be a good reason for the
> comprimise.

You are correct of course, but what I wasn't trying to call anyone a "poor
GM", I was merely stating an answer. And btw, my players did this a long time
ago. Got me miffed as hell until someone brought in his Marlin Fishing Gear
and gave an example. It frightened the hell out of us what he could do in 10
minutes with inadequate gear. Give a mechanic the tools and a couple of
hours, OUCH!!!

-K
Message no. 13
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:18:09 EST
Back to the GM's POV for this one...

In a message dated 98-01-26 17:24:24 EST, decker@****.FSU.EDU writes:

> Isn't that the truth. I once had players, who went out of their
> way to cripple and not kill bad guys, so they could have their
> toys. :) I eventually cured them of that, but it took time and
> a different gaming system. Too bad there aren't the equivalent of
> "rust monsters" in SR. Hmm...although I guess most hardware is made
> of non-ferrous compounds. STill.....perhaps a metal eating monster.
> I'll think on it. <EGMG> I'm off to try and stay awake in class. Later
> all.
>
I understand this one. A player rather recently went to great extents to
obtain a BIG NASTY GUN (using a Vortex Gun idea) from a Discovery Magazine
Mike had (just used PAC stats with different descriptions in truth). Player
completely PO'd several other players and myself in wasting something like 10
points of karma...

They ran away, (I allow Slipstream/Metaplanar travel, so they ran far away),
in fact they ran all the way back to a "safe house" in a single step. The
player got the gun to go with him, and quickly discovered the failsafe
recognition system and the thing blew up in his hand (imagine a PAC shell at
range 0). Yep, I had loads of fun being vindictive for once (chuckle),
destroyed his suit of HV Milspec, got him slag even more karma to stay
alive...and he still didn't get his toy AND he destroyed Falcon's house (that
was a story in and unto itself when the "Player of Falcon" caught up to him
(ewg).

-K
Message no. 14
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:28:12 EST
In a message dated 98-01-26 19:18:28 EST, mohkev@******.COM writes:

> I told one of my players, the rigger as a matter of fact, that he was just
> being paranoid about something. His response was "You're not paranoid if
> they _ARE_ out to get you!"
>
> > Justin :)
>
> --
> -Moe
>
Very good point... ;)
-K
Message no. 15
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:39:34 +1000
Ereskanti writes:
>> I told one of my players, the rigger as a matter of fact, that he was
just
>> being paranoid about something. His response was "You're not paranoid if
>> they _ARE_ out to get you!"
>
>Very good point... ;)


Very OLD point... if they were out to get you, they'd sabotage that
jury-rigged monowire security system so that it backfires.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons.
Message no. 16
From: Kristling Ravenwing <kristling@*******.CROSSWINDS.NET>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:58:38 -0500
> > And, Keith, how the hang do you get it to strech taunt?
>
> Answer #2, simple again...reflex tension mounts...similar mechanism to
what a
> "Safety Belt" in most cars use now (but the name is different). Whenever
a
> "quick jerky action" occurs, the rollers lock into place (roll speed set
to a
> specific threshold I'd suppose). And the rewind release is part of the
door
> handle...
Now I think it's kosher. :0)
>
> > > And then there are those that want something different...they can be
made
> > > happy, but it takes compromise on the part of the GM.
> > Yes, but if the difference conflicts with ground rules the GM made at
the
> > begining, and everyone agreed to, there'd better be a good reason for
the
> > comprimise.
>
> You are correct of course, but what I wasn't trying to call anyone a
"poor
> GM", I was merely stating an answer. And btw, my players did this a long
time
> ago. Got me miffed as hell until someone brought in his Marlin Fishing
Gear
> and gave an example. It frightened the hell out of us what he could do
in 10
> minutes with inadequate gear. Give a mechanic the tools and a couple of
> hours, OUCH!!!
good, valid point.
I'm sorry if I gave the impression you was saying anyone was a bad GM.
>>>>>["OUCH! MY PANCERAS!"
-Dexter, dwarf decker, after being shot in the arm.
Reach me at kristling@*******.crosswinds.net
ICQ UIN: 6642462
www.crosswind.com/toronto/~kristling/ will be up by Friday.]<<<<<
--Kristling (the Weird) Ravenwing, Aka Daniel Sauve (say "SO-
vey"!), Josha Dube, Ken masters, D, Samson Primal, Josha the Strange,
Dexter, Ricochet..... </>
Message no. 17
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:00:59 +0100
Justin Pinnow said on 18:12/26 Jan 98...

> And then there are the social consequences of said actions. What does it
> say about your personality when you have monowire *on your car*?! I mean,
> the word "paranoid" comes to mind really fast. Not to mention the obvious
> tip off to any car thief that this piece of metal and/or its contents is
> probably worth a fortune.

And that's exactly why someone will try and succeed to break into the
warehouse my players recently bought and outfitted with all kinds of
security gadgets... Hell, if I'll have to let the Ancients do an assault
like the attack in the opening story of Elven Fire, I'll do it, as long as
_someone_ will succeed in getting in and out of there :)

> But, see, things like batman toys are the wrong genre for a more "mundane"
> or "gritty" campaign, IMO. They're too fantastic.

My idea too.

> So, if a character has a cool idea for a new weapon, that's great - but how
> functional is it? How will he make it? Does he have a lab and the
> resources to design and build weapons? If so, why the heck is he a
> shadowrunner anyway? He can make a lot more money doing work that's a lot
> less lethal.

This character contacts his fixer to see if he knows someone who can build
it for him. He draws up some basic plans and wants an armorer to build the
thing. He'll probably scream bloody murder if the thing malfunctions, but
hey, I don't like too-fantastic toys in the SR games I GM.

Unfortunately, that same player is GMing next Friday. He's clever enough
to see that I wouldn't stand for him giving his own characters all the
toys he wants while he GMs, though. (I hope :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
People who live in glass houses ...
... should turn out the lights before they undress.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 18
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:58:03 -0700
Gurth wrote:
/
/ Justin Pinnow said on 18:12/26 Jan 98...
/
/ > So, if a character has a cool idea for a new weapon, that's great - but how
/ > functional is it? How will he make it? Does he have a lab and the
/ > resources to design and build weapons? If so, why the heck is he a
/ > shadowrunner anyway? He can make a lot more money doing work that's a lot
/ > less lethal.
/
/ This character contacts his fixer to see if he knows someone who can build
/ it for him. He draws up some basic plans and wants an armorer to build the
/ thing. He'll probably scream bloody murder if the thing malfunctions, but
/ hey, I don't like too-fantastic toys in the SR games I GM.
/
/ Unfortunately, that same player is GMing next Friday. He's clever enough
/ to see that I wouldn't stand for him giving his own characters all the
/ toys he wants while he GMs, though. (I hope :)

Make it a fun roleplaying experience based on how the US Pentagon
purchases weapons.

The PC takes the idea to an armorer his fixer hooked him up with.
The armorer says, "No problem. It'll cost you 20,000 and I can have
it for you in two months."

After a couple weeks the armorer calls and says he ran into a snag.
He's still on schedule but he needs to buy a gadget to get the job
done. Cough up another 5,000.

Next week the armorer calls and says he's got an engineering problem
he can't crack and he needs to bring in a friend. It's going to cost
another 10 Gs. The engineer calls and says he needs this gadget.
Price: 500,000. But, Ares has one sitting in a nearby lab (time for
an adventure).

A couple weeks later the armorer and engineer call to say that they
need to contract a research lab with a wind tunnel to nail down this
problem that they are oh so close to fixing. A local university will
lease a lab on a 6 month contract for 50,000.

The armorer calls and says they finally fixed the problem. However,
a graduate student walked in and has a great idea that will improve
the orginal idea by 300%. They'll need a paltry 10,000 to see if it
works.

They call back after a couple weeks and say the idea is sound and
that they can start work on it as soon as they get access to a
mainframe to run some equations. Leasing time on the mainframe is
going to cost 5,000.

After crunching the numbers they call back to say no problem.
However, they need to use an alloy to get it to work. The PC is
going to have to purchase the alloy at 100,000.

And so on... <EGMG>

-David
--
"Courage is grace under pressure."
- Earnest Hemingway
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 19
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:06:41 -0500
On Mon, Jan 26, 1998 at 03:03:32PM -0700, David Buehrer wrote:
> Lehlan Decker wrote:
> /
> / On Mon, Jan 26, 1998 at 02:53:26PM -0700, David Buehrer wrote:
> / >
> / > Also, be wary of the rule: If the GM builds it, the players will use
> / > it.
> / >
> / Isn't that the truth. I once had players, who went out of their
> / way to cripple and not kill bad guys, so they could have their
> / toys. :) I eventually cured them of that, but it took time and
> / a different gaming system. Too bad there aren't the equivalent of
> / "rust monsters" in SR. Hmm...although I guess most hardware is made
> / of non-ferrous compounds. STill.....perhaps a metal eating monster.
> / I'll think on it. <EGMG> I'm off to try and stay awake in class. Later
> / all.
>
> Remember the Brain Mole from AD$D? Make the same critter that
> feeds/drains neuroelectrical energy from it's victims. It's easier
> for the mole to feed of of cyber-enhanced characters because the ware
> "bleeds" neuroenergy. The more ware, the easier for the mole (this
> would be a form of essence drain).
>
Ouch now that is evil. (Suprised Tinner hasn't thought of it yet. :))
I like it. :) Hmm...sometimes of either essence drain, or decrease
in quickness sounds good. Wonder what type of habitat it would like.
Similiar to devil rats I'm guessing. Hmm...perhaps a mutated devil
rat would be the easiest way to adapt it. :)


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people are alive, only because its illegal to kill them.
Message no. 20
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:10:51 +0000
On 26 Jan 98 at 9:13, Ereskanti wrote:


> > A little logic and reason goes a long way when GMing. I have learned that
> > players will respect your decisions more when you can explain to them the
> > reality behind the situation accurately. Then there are the munchkins, but
> > they're never happy, so it doesn't really matter. ;)
>
> And then there are those that want something different...they can be made
> happy, but it takes compromise on the part of the GM.

Sure, but the prob Justin has is not the little tech-toys we al like (like
telescopic staffs and really fast cars (Though *I* would never want them!
;)), but stuff like the hand-made weapon that has a -4 on recoil (thanks
to the built in ImpGasVent 4), 12D-damage, SA/BF/FA and rifle-ranges. With
a concealability of 8 (This is actually an exaggerated version of a gun I
was once asked to allow...) Oh yeah, and it was suppressed.
Or like the guy who wanted a monowhip at chargen without even paying the
SOTA-edge. Or the all-time-favourite "Can we make it
indestructible?"-question. Me, I usually take stuff that's already there
and modify it a bit. Most of the time it's weaker than it was (You know,
Charons MP-5TSD was once an Ingram 20t. Now damage is 6M and the clip's
smaller, but I got the style I wanted.)
And for epic backgrounds: Try starting a low-powered campaign (read: a wee
bit above gang-level) and someone comes up with the son of the commander of
the IRA...just another slightly exaggerated example (the real ones are even
worse, believe me!)

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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Message no. 21
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:39:17 EST
In a message dated 98-01-27 12:09:31 EST, t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE
writes:

> Sure, but the prob Justin has is not the little tech-toys we al like (like
> telescopic staffs and really fast cars (Though *I* would never want them!
> ;)),

Oh no, never....

> but stuff like the hand-made weapon that has a -4 on recoil (thanks
> to the built in ImpGasVent 4), 12D-damage, SA/BF/FA and rifle-ranges. With
> a concealability of 8 (This is actually an exaggerated version of a gun I
> was once asked to allow...) Oh yeah, and it was suppressed.

Okay, even I admit that there are moments where some things just don't fit in.
Your example above is one of them. You want -real- fun, you have to find the
balance of the compromise I mentioned previously. I -allow- "Epic" weapons, I
won't deny it. (Charon is going to come face to face with some, assuming
everyone makes it that far of course). But I do it with regards to the story
and the enjoyment factors. I have had only a few complaints in the last 7
years. Please note, I said a few...the ones I have had are LOUD...

> Or like the guy who wanted a monowhip at chargen without even paying the
> SOTA-edge. Or the all-time-favourite "Can we make it
> indestructible?"-question. Me, I usually take stuff that's already there
> and modify it a bit. Most of the time it's weaker than it was (You know,
> Charons MP-5TSD was once an Ingram 20t. Now damage is 6M and the clip's
> smaller, but I got the style I wanted.)

A monowhip at chargen isn't bad, IF there is something else that can allow for
the balance to be retained. What really sucks is when someone wants the
monowhip to "electrically charged" or "flame aurad" or something
similar...

> And for epic backgrounds: Try starting a low-powered campaign (read: a wee
> bit above gang-level) and someone comes up with the son of the commander of
> the IRA...just another slightly exaggerated example (the real ones are even
> worse, believe me!)

OH I do know, I have someone that keeps claiming his uncle is CIA and former
FBI and he just -knows- what those people have access too...therefore his
characters can too...(sigh)

> Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

Friendly?!?!?!? He's afraid of ... well, I won't say .. I promised ;)
-K
Message no. 22
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:29:10 +0100
David Buehrer said on 6:58/27 Jan 98...

> / This character contacts his fixer to see if he knows someone who can build
> / it for him. He draws up some basic plans and wants an armorer to build the
> / thing. He'll probably scream bloody murder if the thing malfunctions, but
> / hey, I don't like too-fantastic toys in the SR games I GM.
>
> Make it a fun roleplaying experience based on how the US Pentagon
> purchases weapons.

[snip evil idea :)]

I like this, it has everything a GM needs (why didn't I think of it?) --
unavailability because the weapon isn't finished, rising costs because
things don't work, and a player who'll hopefully get frustrated enough not
to want another fancy gadget unless he _really_ needs it...

Next time I GM, I'll do something like this. Not quite as elaborate, but
the armorer will definitely work longer than planned and need more
money...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
People who live in glass houses ...
... should turn out the lights before they undress.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Message no. 23
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:42:47 +0000
On 27 Jan 98 at 20:39, Ereskanti wrote:

> In a message dated 98-01-27 12:09:31 EST, t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE
> writes:
>
> > Sure, but the prob Justin has is not the little tech-toys we al like (like
> > telescopic staffs and really fast cars (Though *I* would never want them!
> > ;)),
>
> Oh no, never....

It's good we agree. Just the same with you not caring about magic...:)
(well ot *that* bad)

> > but stuff like the hand-made weapon that has a -4 on recoil (thanks
> > to the built in ImpGasVent 4), 12D-damage, SA/BF/FA and rifle-ranges. With
> > a concealability of 8 (This is actually an exaggerated version of a gun I
> > was once asked to allow...) Oh yeah, and it was suppressed.
>
> Okay, even I admit that there are moments where some things just don't fit in.
> Your example above is one of them. You want -real- fun, you have to find the
> balance of the compromise I mentioned previously. I -allow- "Epic"
weapons, I
> won't deny it. (Charon is going to come face to face with some, assuming
> everyone makes it that far of course).

I'm locking forward to it (But if I have to fight Lex Luther, I'll
personally eat you alive (if Mike leaves anything of you))

> But I do it with regards to the story
> and the enjoyment factors. I have had only a few complaints in the last 7
> years. Please note, I said a few...the ones I have had are LOUD...

Maybe you just have nice players regarding this point.

> > Or like the guy who wanted a monowhip at chargen without even paying the
> > SOTA-edge. Or the all-time-favourite "Can we make it
> > indestructible?"-question. Me, I usually take stuff that's already there
> > and modify it a bit. Most of the time it's weaker than it was (You know,
> > Charons MP-5TSD was once an Ingram 20t. Now damage is 6M and the clip's
> > smaller, but I got the style I wanted.)
>
> A monowhip at chargen isn't bad, IF there is something else that can allow for
> the balance to be retained. What really sucks is when someone wants the
> monowhip to "electrically charged" or "flame aurad" or something
similar...

Oh well, he just wanted it at skill 8...and flaws to balance it...not that
I remember any remarkable.

> > And for epic backgrounds: Try starting a low-powered campaign (read: a wee
> > bit above gang-level) and someone comes up with the son of the commander of
> > the IRA...just another slightly exaggerated example (the real ones are even
> > worse, believe me!)
>
> OH I do know, I have someone that keeps claiming his uncle is CIA and former
> FBI and he just -knows- what those people have access too...therefore his
> characters can too...(sigh)


I have two chainsaws here. I could borrow you one....
>
> > Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.
>
> Friendly?!?!?!? He's afraid of ... well, I won't say .. I promised ;)

Well Binder did...
Anyway, don't tell. He's reading my mail from time to time :)



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
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Message no. 24
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:05:38 GMT
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:57:24 -0500, Lehlan Decker wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 26, 1998 at 02:53:26PM -0700, David Buehrer wrote:
> > Lehlan Decker wrote:
> > /
> > / This goes back to the rule. If the players can use it, so can the NPC's.
> > / It solves monowire, panther assault cannons, etc fairly quick, and seems
> > / to apply to most RPG games. :)
> >
> > True, true. Hopefully the players catch on before the escelation
> > gets out of hand and everyone gets down to roleplaying.
> >
> > Also, be wary of the rule: If the GM builds it, the players will use
> > it.
> >
> Isn't that the truth. I once had players, who went out of their
> way to cripple and not kill bad guys, so they could have their
> toys. :) I eventually cured them of that, but it took time and
> a different gaming system. Too bad there aren't the equivalent of
> "rust monsters" in SR. Hmm...although I guess most hardware is made
> of non-ferrous compounds. STill.....perhaps a metal eating monster.
> I'll think on it. <EGMG> I'm off to try and stay awake in class. Later
> all.

You could always use an extremely specific version of Larry Niven's
Superconductor virus from the Ringworld series. Lord help us if it ever
mutated enough to affect all superconductor material, though...



James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";
ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

Mono au mono, the "Professor"
would kick MacGyver's ass.
Message no. 25
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:36:47 -0500
On Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 07:05:38AM +0000, James Lindsay wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:57:24 -0500, Lehlan Decker wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Jan 26, 1998 at 02:53:26PM -0700, David Buehrer wrote:
<SNIP>
> > Isn't that the truth. I once had players, who went out of their
> > way to cripple and not kill bad guys, so they could have their
> > toys. :) I eventually cured them of that, but it took time and
> > a different gaming system. Too bad there aren't the equivalent of
> > "rust monsters" in SR. Hmm...although I guess most hardware is made
> > of non-ferrous compounds. STill.....perhaps a metal eating monster.
> > I'll think on it. <EGMG> I'm off to try and stay awake in class. Later
> > all.
>
> You could always use an extremely specific version of Larry Niven's
> Superconductor virus from the Ringworld series. Lord help us if it ever
> mutated enough to affect all superconductor material, though...
>
>
Ouch! Hmm..its an evil thought however. But would be kinda odd to work
into the SR framework. I'm thinking, to make it a new critter power,
and design a critter around it. That's an interesting thought
I haven't seen on the list (at least I don't think so). It would
also go along with Predator & Prey (is it out yet?).
Has anyone developed any new twists on paranormals critters, or new
ones? Later.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people are alive, only because its illegal to kill them.
Message no. 26
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:46:43 -0600
On 01/30/98 10:36:47 you wrote:
>
>On Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 07:05:38AM +0000, James Lindsay wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:57:24 -0500, Lehlan Decker wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, Jan 26, 1998 at 02:53:26PM -0700, David Buehrer wrote:
><SNIP>
>> > Isn't that the truth. I once had players, who went out of their
>> > way to cripple and not kill bad guys, so they could have their
>> > toys. :) I eventually cured them of that, but it took time and
>> > a different gaming system. Too bad there aren't the equivalent of
>> > "rust monsters" in SR. Hmm...although I guess most hardware is
made
>> > of non-ferrous compounds. STill.....perhaps a metal eating monster.
>> > I'll think on it. <EGMG> I'm off to try and stay awake in class. Later
>> > all.
>>
>> You could always use an extremely specific version of Larry Niven's
>> Superconductor virus from the Ringworld series. Lord help us if it ever
>> mutated enough to affect all superconductor material, though...
>>
>>
>Ouch! Hmm..its an evil thought however. But would be kinda odd to work
>into the SR framework. I'm thinking, to make it a new critter power,
>and design a critter around it. That's an interesting thought
>I haven't seen on the list (at least I don't think so). It would
>also go along with Predator & Prey (is it out yet?).
>Has anyone developed any new twists on paranormals critters, or new
>ones? Later.
>
Care to elaborate on this one a bit for those of us not familiar with the source?

Argent

Rabiola@**.netcom.com
Argent - Elven Fixer Extrodinaire
It was hot, the night we burned Chrome...
Message no. 27
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:08:48 GMT
On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:46:43 -0600, Tony Rabiola wrote:

> On 01/30/98 10:36:47 you wrote:
> >
> >On Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 07:05:38AM +0000, James Lindsay wrote:
> >>
> >> You could always use an extremely specific version of Larry Niven's
> >> Superconductor virus from the Ringworld series. Lord help us if it ever
> >> mutated enough to affect all superconductor material, though...
> >>
> >Ouch! Hmm..its an evil thought however. But would be kinda odd to work
> >into the SR framework. I'm thinking, to make it a new critter power,
> >and design a critter around it. That's an interesting thought
> >I haven't seen on the list (at least I don't think so). It would
> >also go along with Predator & Prey (is it out yet?).
> >Has anyone developed any new twists on paranormals critters, or new
> >ones? Later.
> >
> Care to elaborate on this one a bit for those of us not familiar with the source?

Larry Niven's "Ringworld" series is one of the all-time classic SF books.
It was based on a universe he called "Known Space", inhabited by Humans,
Kzin, and Puppeteers (among others). It spawned two sequels: "Ringworld
Engineers" and "Protector".

The Puppeteers find the star system in which Ringworld exists (a 1 million
wide band orbiting the central star at a radius of earth's distance to its
own sun, more or less) and finance a human expedition to search for a
substance that would grant the effects of a "Fountain of Youth".

One of the highest technology civilizations ever to exist on Ringworld were
the "City Builders". They built huge starships that ventured out into
space and brought back things from all across the galaxy. One of them was
an organism that consumed superconductor material. Theories speculate that
the organism was released aboard a returning ship (traveling at a sizable
fraction of the speed of light), which couldn't decelerate in time to match
velocities with Ringworld. A 1,000 mile high, open-topped mountain punched
"up" from the surface of Ringworld was the result.

Besides the unimaginable side effects that this caused (eg: shifting an
absolutely *massive* ocean of water about 1 million miles spinward), this
introduced what local Ringworld historians referred to as the "Great
Superconductor Plague". At the time, the more advanced races on Ringworld
were considerably more advanced than our own, relying on the wonders of
superconductors quite extensively (computerized traffic control, floating
cities, etc.). Systems began to fail all over Ringworld, leaving citizens
stranded in *extremely* remote areas, causing the floating cities to crash
to the ground, etc. Basically, anything at the silicon transistor state
and up was "consumed" by the organism, effectively tossing back a
civilization that relied *so* much on technology that they did not know how
to survive without it.

It got worse, however, since the original builders of Ringworld (the
"Protectors") also relied on semiconductors to keep Ringworld functioning.
That's when all of the vital equipment designed to act as a "life support
system" for the huge artificial world began to fail as well. With no
Protectors left to save them, the world slowly began to "die". It wasn't
just the "City Builders" that were wiped out, it was literally
"trillions"
of inhabitants.

There are all sorts of speculation as to where the Superconductor Plague
*really* originated from, but that would spoil things too much :)



James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";
ICQ: 7521644 (Sharkey)

Mono au mono, the "Professor"
would kick MacGyver's ass.
Message no. 28
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:10:06 -0500
On Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 11:46:43AM -0600, Tony Rabiola wrote:

> ><SNIP>
<DOUBLE SNIP>
> >>
> >Ouch! Hmm..its an evil thought however. But would be kinda odd to work
> >into the SR framework. I'm thinking, to make it a new critter power,
> >and design a critter around it. That's an interesting thought
> >I haven't seen on the list (at least I don't think so). It would
> >also go along with Predator & Prey (is it out yet?).
> >Has anyone developed any new twists on paranormals critters, or new
> >ones? Later.
> >
> Care to elaborate on this one a bit for those of us not familiar with the source?
>
Elaborate on which part? Predator and Prey is a new "source book"
dealing with critters that is due out this month.
I was curious if anyone had designed any other critters besides the
ones from the Paranormal books. I haven't, although I have had
several mutant variants based on the CFS sourcebook, mutated rules.
(Good for dealing with toxic critters).
Later.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people are alive, only because its illegal to kill them.
Message no. 29
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Epic Weapons (was Re: Cyberware <-> tissue connecton)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:45:07 EST
In a message dated 98-01-30 15:10:03 EST, decker@****.FSU.EDU writes:

> Elaborate on which part? Predator and Prey is a new "source book"
> dealing with critters that is due out this month.
> I was curious if anyone had designed any other critters besides the
> ones from the Paranormal books. I haven't, although I have had
> several mutant variants based on the CFS sourcebook, mutated rules.
> (Good for dealing with toxic critters).
> Later.
>
Why of course we have...Coatl's for Aztlan, as well as Chameleo Cats and the
occasionally modified Wraith now and again...uh...I keep thinking we had more,
an Indiran Elephant a while back....True Rocs (capable of picking up smaller
elephants) ....gosh, several others and right now I am just running down...

-K

Further Reading

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Thwap!