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From:	Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject:	Epidemic
Date:	Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:10:43 +0200

Message no. 1 (First, sorry for the reply to the bioware post.. I hadn't read through
all the posts, so I didn't see there was 10000 replies to it allready)

Okay, today many consider disease, either bacteriological or viral, the
greatest threat for the future. How is this in 2050? After all, bacteria
and viruses go through improvement processes as well, and might well become
resistant to antibac or similar. Is there (in)frequent outbreaks of deadly
epidemics? What has happened to contain these?

Should the runners expect to be quarantined when arriving from certain places?
(Anywhere where an epidemic might be underway unnoticed due to poor health
supervision). Would they have to pay for quarantine accomodations themselves?
(Yes, unless they have travel insurance, I'd guess.. no pay? Okay, you'll
be sent back.).

I'd assume that despite the advances in medical technology there's diseases
it cannot cope with, or, more probably, the cures takes so long to implement
(2-4 years of testing to make sure it's no ill effects.. (To avoid getting sued
rather than concern, of course)) that serious epidemics get a few years of
free reign.

How much of a problem would this be in 2050? GM's, keep in mind that this is,
today, considered the most probable world - killer within the next few decades.
In large parts of africa, approximately a third to a fifth of the population
is infected by HIV. Last year, 90% of deaths was related to HIV. And they
won't be able to afford the hideously expensive medicines that could cure it.
With this large a percentage of the population infected, further spread is
inevitable. How will that look in ten years? HIV is a 'nice' disease,
comparatively - it takes as much as 10+ years to kill, giving the scientists
time to find a cure. (Which they have, incidentally).

I am sorry if you find it in bad taste to comment about one of the world's
largest coming health disasters in a gaming list. There is no disrespect for
the millions going to die intended. I try to run campaigns realistically, and
this is one of the aspects of the world that would have to be considered.

From:	"Logan Graves <Fenris>" <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:10:24 -0400

Message no. 2 In our last episode, Rune Fostervoll wrote:
>
> Okay, today many consider disease, either bacteriological or viral,
> the greatest threat for the future. How is this in 2050? After all,
> bacteria and viruses go through improvement processes as well, and
> might well become resistant to antibac or similar.

Actually, this is happening right now, thanks to our
overly-eager-to-prescribe-wonder-drugs doctors. *Many* strains of
micro-organisms now-a-days are immune to our current antibiotics!! This
is especially true in Europe. Scary, neh?

> Is there (in)frequent outbreaks of deadly epidemics?

2010 - First VITAS outbreak kills 25% of world's population.
2022 - Another VITAS outbreak kills 10% of remaining population.
Then there're the ongoing strains of HMHVV, the pre-Awakening,
mutating blood-borne disease responsible for turning humans into
vampires, elves into Banshee(?), sasquatch into Bandersnatch, trolls
into Dzoo-Noo-Qua, and possibly orks into Windego. (Hmm? I wonder what
happens to Dwarves? Maybe we should catch one & find out. ;-P )
And whatever it is that re-goblinizes (meta-)humans into Ghouls.
Meta-viruses are scary too.

> What has happened to contain these?

Good question. Gurth??

> Should the runners expect to be quarantined when arriving from certain
> places? (Anywhere where an epidemic might be underway unnoticed due to
> poor health supervision)

Immunizing against known bio-agents *before* the run never hurts. Its
all part of legwork & intel-gathering.

> I'd assume that despite the advances in medical technology there's
> diseases it cannot cope with, or, more probably, the cures takes so
> long to implement (2-4 years of testing to make sure it's no ill
> effects.. (To avoid getting sued rather than concern, of course)) that
> serious epidemics get a few years of free reign.

So, it's really a question of "Which is progressing faster, medical
science of the nasty germs?" I'm betting on the germs. ;(

--Fenris, who's shots _are_ up to date ;0
_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
[OT STUFF below:]

> How much of a problem would this be in 2050? GM's, keep in mind that
> this is, today, considered the most probable world - killer within the
> next few decades. In large parts of africa, approximately a third to a
> fifth of the population is infected by HIV. Last year, 90% of deaths
> was related to HIV. And they won't be able to afford the hideously
> expensive medicines that could cure it. With this large a percentage
> of the population infected, further spread is inevitable. How will
> that look in ten years? HIV is a 'nice' disease, comparatively - it
> takes as much as 10+ years to kill, giving the scientists time to find
> a cure. (Which they have, incidentally).

Bad example. (Without wishing to starting a flame-war, about "How
insensative Fenris is"), HIV is 99% preventable, since it's transmission
is behavior-related. Perhaps not realistic in Africa, but "abstenance"
prevents HIV.
At least we know what causes it & how it's spread. During the Black
Palgue, they had no idea. So, I agree that it is a 'nice' disease.

--F

From:	Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Sun, 12 Oct 1997 12:14:24 -0400

Message no. 3 > Okay, today many consider disease, either bacteriological or viral, the
> greatest threat for the future. How is this in 2050? After all, bacteria
> and viruses go through improvement processes as well, and might well become
> resistant to antibac or similar. Is there (in)frequent outbreaks of deadly
> epidemics? What has happened to contain these?
>
> Should the runners expect to be quarantined when arriving from certain places?
> (Anywhere where an epidemic might be underway unnoticed due to poor health
> supervision). Would they have to pay for quarantine accomodations themselves?
> (Yes, unless they have travel insurance, I'd guess.. no pay? Okay, you'll
> be sent back.).
>
> I'd assume that despite the advances in medical technology there's diseases
> it cannot cope with, or, more probably, the cures takes so long to implement
> (2-4 years of testing to make sure it's no ill effects.. (To avoid getting sued
> rather than concern, of course)) that serious epidemics get a few years of
> free reign.
>
First, the SR world already went through one round of the VITAS epidemic
which killed a large protion of the world's population. A disease like
this would also have an effect on the other viruses and bacteria out
there, as VITAS kils large numbers of people, these other organisms must
adapt, perhaps becoming less lethal as there are now fewer hosts for them
to inhabit. Nonetheless, there are still various nasties floating around,
and there is always the threat of major outbreaks. (Read 'Threats', I
think it has something about diseases.)
Secondly, medical testing has improved quite a bit, and magical healing
could also take care of most viruses. (I wonder if a micro-organism could
develop some sort of magical resistance?) As corporations are
extra-territorial, they do not need to worry about being sued (at least
this is how SR presents it). Therefore, the time needed to develop
treatments would be considerable reduced.

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:08:31 +0100

Message no. 4 And verily, did Logan Graves hastily scribble thusly...
|
|In our last episode, Rune Fostervoll wrote:
|>
|> Okay, today many consider disease, either bacteriological or viral,
|> the greatest threat for the future. How is this in 2050? After all,
|> bacteria and viruses go through improvement processes as well, and
|> might well become resistant to antibac or similar.
|
|Actually, this is happening right now, thanks to our
|overly-eager-to-prescribe-wonder-drugs doctors. *Many* strains of
|micro-organisms now-a-days are immune to our current antibiotics!! This
|is especially true in Europe. Scary, neh?

Not after watching Horizon on BBC2 last week....
(In Georgia, (the ex-ussr one), they descovered and developed cures for
resistant bacteria... Bacteriophages. Viruses that live off specific strains
of bacteria.

Brilliantly efficient way of doing it, because not only does the virus kill
the bugs, it also multiplies inside them BEFORE killing them, releasing more
to kill even more bugs...

And as they're bacteria specific (so specific that a Salmonella phage won't
even touch an e-coli phage), they're harmless to humans...
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

From:	Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:49:30 +0000

Message no. 5 Spike optimistically scribbled:
*CHOP*
> Bacteriophages. Viruses that live off specific strains
> of bacteria.
>
> Brilliantly efficient way of doing it, because not only does the virus kill
> the bugs, it also multiplies inside them BEFORE killing them, releasing more
> to kill even more bugs...
>
> And as they're bacteria specific (so specific that a Salmonella phage won't
> even touch an e-coli phage), they're harmless to humans...

Good. That's one more bullet in the gun. But the war of the bugs
won't be won that easily, I am afraid. Bacteria go through evolution
on total overdrive. They evolve more rapidly than any other life form
on this world. And then, viruses are far worse anyway. Few scientists
believe they will remove the threat completely anytime soon. Today,
there is a struggle to find new ways to kill the bugs because the old
ways become increasingly ineffective. (SOTA, there, too) And SR is a
dark future... saying, 'nah, they cured disease, no problem' would go
against the grain, IMHO. Rather, I'd say there's awakened bacteria
with unbelievable virulence...). Saying mages can cure it.. well,
sure, they can cure you or me. But 10 million?.).

BTW, if a bacteriphage mutates into a deadly virus (say, vitas)
because it was designed not to be fought by the human immune system..
and they are still trying to supress that little fact? Wouldn't that
be fun (and grounds for a run or two..?)
--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost

From:	Timothy Little <t_little@**********.UTAS.EDU.AU>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:38:12 +1100

Message no. 6 At 09:10 AM 10/12/97 -0400, Fenris wrote:

>In our last episode, Rune Fostervoll wrote:
>>
>> Okay, today many consider disease, either bacteriological or viral,
>> the greatest threat for the future. How is this in 2050? After all,
>> bacteria and viruses go through improvement processes as well, and
>> might well become resistant to antibac or similar.
>
>So, it's really a question of "Which is progressing faster, medical
>science of the nasty germs?" I'm betting on the germs. ;(

I'll bet on the science, once they figure out the parameters of resistance
mutation and counter them. Not an easy problem, but do-able.
Antibiotics are still fairly erratic so far, but they still work OK.
Medical coordination and development will increase in effectiveness, even if
any given antibiotics won't.

I expect that once a given threshold of technology is reached, new
antibiotics could be tailored much faster than bacteria can hope to evolve.

[future clinic] "Scanning ... identifying harmful bacteria ...
performing genetic analysis ... analysing coat proteins ... preparing
antibiotic ... done. Prepared mixture 5D608 to be administered at 6 hour
intervals."
Not completely automated (you don't want it to accidentally misidentify
nerve cells as 'harmful bacteria'), but with access to a world-wide database
of known bacteria and their parameters, and to the patient's medical files.

Of course, in the Shadowrun world I'm betting on the magic. :-)

(But what about awakened sentient bacteria? Has anyone else read "Speaker
for the Dead" and "Xenocide"?)

--
Little One

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:34:26 +0100

Message no. 7 |Good. That's one more bullet in the gun. But the war of the bugs
|won't be won that easily, I am afraid. Bacteria go through evolution
|on total overdrive. They evolve more rapidly than any other life form
|on this world.

Fromm what Horizon said, the viruses mutate as well, to keep up with their
food....

:)

|BTW, if a bacteriphage mutates into a deadly virus (say, vitas)
|because it was designed not to be fought by the human immune system..
|and they are still trying to supress that little fact? Wouldn't that
|be fun (and grounds for a run or two..?)

Yup... Much fun...

<EGMG>
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:33:20 +0100

Message no. 8 Spike said on 20:08/12 Oct 97...

> Not after watching Horizon on BBC2 last week....

So that was the programme... I only saw a little bit of it, but it was
pretty interesting.

> (In Georgia, (the ex-ussr one), they descovered and developed cures for
> resistant bacteria... Bacteriophages. Viruses that live off specific strains
> of bacteria.

Only problem is that, as usual in the former USSR), they don't have enough
money to keep all the phages they've discovered so far.

I also thought their method of finding new ones was nice and simple: they
hold a bottle in the institute's sewage and analyze its contents... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Artificial people? You mean ... actors?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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From:	Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:20:58 EDT

Message no. 9 On Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:38:12 +1100 Timothy Little
>(But what about awakened sentient bacteria? Has anyone else read
"Speaker
>for the Dead" and "Xenocide"?)

Yup.
Hmm.. interesting.... even more so if you don't make it a process
exclusive to a single species.

~Tim

From:	Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Tue, 14 Oct 1997 04:46:42 -0500

Message no. 10 At 12-Okt-97 wrote Logan Graves <Fenris>:

>(Hmm? I wonder what
>happens to Dwarves? Maybe we should catch one & find out. ;-P )

Goblins

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Evil Overlord advice #17:

When I employ people as advisors, I will occasionally listen to
their advice.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------

From:	"Logan Graves <Fenris>" <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:44:14 -0400

Message no. 11 In our last episode, Barbie wrote:
>
> In reply to *my* 12-Okt-97 post:
> >[... HMHVV, the pre-Awakening, mutating blood-borne disease
> > responsible for turning humans into Vampires, elves into Banshee(?),
> > sasquatch into Bandersnatch, trolls into Dzoo-Noo-Qua, and possibly
> > orks into Windego...]
> >
> >(Hmm? I wonder what happens to Dwarves?
> >Maybe we should catch one & find out. ;-P )

> Goblins

Seriously?? Did I miss something somewhere OR did you make that up?
(Actually, I was thinking that their increased resistance to pathogens
could perhaps render them immune to HMHVV.)

--Fenris
_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
A: "You know, it's times like this when I'm trapped
in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse,
and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space,
that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother
told me when I was young."
F: "Why, what did she tell you?"
A: "I don't know. I didn't listen."
--from (nearly the final) conversation between Arthur & Ford

From:	Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:33:55 -0500

Message no. 12 At 13-Okt-97 wrote Logan Graves <Fenris>:

>Seriously?? Did I miss something somewhere OR did you make that up?
>(Actually, I was thinking that their increased resistance to pathogens
>could perhaps render them immune to HMHVV.)

Its in one of the Paranormal books, don`t have them handy so no pages yet
sorry. They get infected by a mutated strain of the virus, not the original
one IIRC.

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Evil Overlord advice #17:

When I employ people as advisors, I will occasionally listen to
their advice.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Tue, 14 Oct 1997 01:11:33 PDT

Message no. 13 GOBLINS (HMHVV INFECTED DWARVES)
>>Seriously?? Did I miss something somewhere OR did you make that up?
>>(Actually, I was thinking that their increased resistance to pathogens
could perhaps render them immune to HMHVV.)
>
>
>Its in one of the Paranormal books, don`t have them handy so no pages
yet
>sorry. They get infected by a mutated strain of the virus, not the
original
>one IIRC.
>
>--
>
>Barbie

Additionally, Goblins do not have the infection power, so how does that
"mutated strain" spread? It could just be a carrier Vampire carelessin
his feeding, But it is strongly hinted that the infection is deliberate,
like that of a vamperic pawn, and is biengcaried out systematically in
some parts of Europe byr "other" vampires.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
01
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
Ordo Maximus, of course. Or possibally Nosferatue cabals- are they part
of the Ordo? Anybody else know more about whats up with Europes
sopposedly swelling infected population?
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>Evil Overlord advice #17:
>
>When I employ people as advisors, I will occasionally listen to
>their advice.
>
>http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
>FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
>Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From:	Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:12:00 GMT

Message no. 14 Timothy Little writes

> At 09:10 AM 10/12/97 -0400, Fenris wrote:
>
> >So, it's really a question of "Which is progressing faster, medical
> >science of the nasty germs?" I'm betting on the germs. ;(
>
Which is why the 'phage' approach as dicussed in Horizon here last
week is so good because nature drives the viruses as well so we can
use the same advantage, 'natural selection' right back.

> I'll bet on the science, once they figure out the parameters of resistance
> mutation and counter them. Not an easy problem, but do-able.
> Antibiotics are still fairly erratic so far, but they still work OK.
> Medical coordination and development will increase in effectiveness, even if
> any given antibiotics won't.
They noted in the programme that we have not found a truely new type
of antibiotic for some 30 years now, only varients and that eariler
this year the inevitable happened they found a virus resistant to
everything we have, get infected with this and you are history,
modern medicine will not save you. This is nasty which is why
something needs done yesterday.

> I expect that once a given threshold of technology is reached, new
> antibiotics could be tailored much faster than bacteria can hope to evolve.
>
The problem is we need to find the means of attack, which is the
problem, sure once its found whipping up a solutions not so bad, but
we cannot find more weaknesses vulnerable to this 'class' of attack.

> Of course, in the Shadowrun world I'm betting on the magic. :-)
>
For small numbers of people / the rich yes, there are curing spells
in SR2 that do the job.

> (But what about awakened sentient bacteria? Has anyone else read "Speaker
> for the Dead" and "Xenocide"?)
>
awakened, use a bigger spell. :)

Sentient, oh come on..... showing 'intelligent behaviour in groups'
of 'ant style' behaviour maybe but they are simply to primitive for
sentience as we know it, the line is probably pretty grey over the
level of complexity required for sentience to be possible but a line
must surely exist.

Mark

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:34:12 +0100

Message no. 15 |> Goblins
|
|Seriously?? Did I miss something somewhere OR did you make that up?
|(Actually, I was thinking that their increased resistance to pathogens
|could perhaps render them immune to HMHVV.)

I believe strain I HMHVV kills dwarves, but strain II turns them into
Goblins.
(PAoE... I think)
| --from (nearly the final) conversation between Arthur & Ford
|

So, getting picked up by the Heart of Gold was just the Afterlife then was
it?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

From:	Rick St Jean <Platinum@*****.CA>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:50:55 -0400

Message no. 16 Logan Graves wrote:
>
> In our last episode, Barbie wrote:
> >
> > In reply to *my* 12-Okt-97 post:
> > >[... HMHVV, the pre-Awakening, mutating blood-borne disease
> > > responsible for turning humans into Vampires, elves into Banshee(?),
> > > sasquatch into Bandersnatch, trolls into Dzoo-Noo-Qua, and possibly
> > > orks into Windego...]
> > >
> > >(Hmm? I wonder what happens to Dwarves?
> > >Maybe we should catch one & find out. ;-P )
>
> > Goblins
>
> Seriously?? Did I miss something somewhere OR did you make that up?
> (Actually, I was thinking that their increased resistance to pathogens
> could perhaps render them immune to HMHVV.)

I got a cool idea for a vampire slayer now.

Physad ---- Weapon focus ----- edge: natural immunity to HMHVV
---- magic resistence ot whatever it called.

-- resist the essence draining power of vampires, weapon focus to kill
them and immunity for extra protection.

another question---- will a Physad who lost all his magic still be able
to use his/her weapon focus???

From:	Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:46:40 PDT

Message no. 17 >I got a cool idea for a vampire slayer now.
>
>Physad ---- Weapon focus ----- edge: natural immunity to HMHVV
> ---- magic resistence ot whatever it called.
>
Lacking my "Companion" I can onlyguess, but I think natural
immunity won'tprotect against "awakened desease" like HMHVV, loup garou
infection, or ghoul infection, and other "pestilence" powers. If they
do, COOL- I'd take the ghoul one and live with them- what a neat
character background...
Magic resistance, unfortunately, is no help vs critter powers. And
you NEED some help to face that fear power at double digit essences.
I'd suggest a rituallysustained increase will+4, cast by a friendly mage
before your hunt as a "blessing". Or take the spellcastingedge, some
sorcery skill, and do it yourself.
A neat adept power would be "iron will"- resistance to emotion
effecting things that target willpower. It would not be unreasonable
foradeptsto beallowed to use "increase attibutes" or "attribute boost"
on willpower, IMHO.

>-- resist the essence draining power of vampires, weapon focus to kill
>them and immunity for extra protection.
>
>another question---- will a Physad who lost all his magic still be able
>to use his/her weapon focus???
>
Not AFAIK. You need a magic rating to gain the bonus of a weapon
focus, and you must be magically active to use ANY kind of focus

Mongoose / Technological progress is like an ax in the hands of a
psycotic - Einstien

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From:	Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Wed, 15 Oct 1997 01:34:29 -0500

Message no. 18 At 14-Okt-97 wrote Rick St Jean:

>another question---- will a Physad who lost all his magic still be able
>to use his/her weapon focus???

No, he`s mondane at this point.

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Evil Overlord advice #17:

When I employ people as advisors, I will occasionally listen to
their advice.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Rick St Jean <Platinum@*****.CA>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:21:21 -0400

Message no. 19 Barbie wrote:
>
> At 14-Okt-97 wrote Rick St Jean:
>
> >another question---- will a Physad who lost all his magic still be able
> >to use his/her weapon focus???
>
> No, he`s mondane at this point.
>
> --
but it's already bonded. Would it be just an active foci able to be
grounded through?

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:33:21 +0100

From:	Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:20:05 -0500

Message no. 21 At 15-Okt-97 wrote Rick St Jean:

>Barbie wrote:
>>
>> At 14-Okt-97 wrote Rick St Jean:
>>
>> >another question---- will a Physad who lost all his magic still be able
>> >to use his/her weapon focus???
>>
>> No, he`s mondane at this point.
>>
>> --
>but it's already bonded. Would it be just an active foci able to be
>grounded through?

The way I see it, on this point the bondage broke and he is no longer
able to use them.

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Evil Overlord advice #17:

When I employ people as advisors, I will occasionally listen to
their advice.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:51:00 GMT

Message no. 22 on 14.10.97 Platinum@*****.CA wrote:

P> I got a cool idea for a vampire slayer now.
P>
P> Physad ---- Weapon focus ----- edge: natural immunity to HMHVV
P> ---- magic resistence ot whatever it called.
P>
P> -- resist the essence draining power of vampires, weapon focus to kill
P> them and immunity for extra protection.

Ouch.

P> another question---- will a Physad who lost all his magic still be able
P> to use his/her weapon focus???

Nope. IIRC being magically active was defined as "having one or more magic
points" so with magic 0....

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------

From:	Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:17:00 GMT

Message no. 23 on 15.10.97 barbie@**********.COM wrote:

b> >another question---- will a Physad who lost all his magic still be able
b> >to use his/her weapon focus???
b>
b> No, he`s mondane at this point.

Not exactly. S/He *can* initiate and become magically active again. Though
all those geasa will be a PITA....

(and I think the aura's still different...)

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------

From:	Ray & Tamara <macey@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject:	Re: Epidemic
Date:	Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:06:42 +1000

Message no. 24 > b> >another question---- will a Physad who lost all his magic still be able
> b> >to use his/her weapon focus???
> b>
> b> No, he`s mondane at this point.
>
> Not exactly. S/He *can* initiate and become magically active again. Though
> all those geasa will be a PITA....
>
> (and I think the aura's still different...)

Wrong. If you lose your magic, you become mundane. Not a sort of magical
mundane, just a plain old boring non-magical mundane. Plain vanilla mundanes
cannot initiate, so neither can Adepts or mages that have lost all of their
magic.

NightRain.

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