Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	LGLUMKA@***
Subject:	errata
Date:	Thu, 24 Sep 92 14:17:00 EDT

Message no. 1 Hey guys
where can we get hold of the errata sheets
and would someone post them if they have them
Circuit Breaker

>>>>>>> Look at this geek, he doesn't know how to use the
cool
arrow things<<<<< <09-24-92 14:17:23> Upload

Yeah the phone company keeps on getting mad that I my time/date stamps
don't appear:) Circuit Breaker

From:	The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject:	Errata
Date:	Thu, 30 Sep 1993 18:19:41 -0500

Message no. 2 I'll check my errata at home, but the only comment that stands out in mind
rgarding spells that hurt and whether they can be sustained is:
No sustained combat spells.

But, wi 60K of errata, I'm bound to have forgotten a phrase or two.
BTW, if anyone's feeling really intrepid, it might be fun to forward this
errata to Da Boyz at FASA (are there any Gurlz there?).

J Roberson

From:	Joe McNulty <mcnultyj@****.JMB.COM>
Subject:	Errata
Date:	Tue, 26 Oct 1993 15:15:08 CDT

Message no. 3 I was wondering about the ShadowRun Errata sheets.

I picked up one off of teetot.acusd.edu, but it seems that people refer
to more than 1 set of errata sheets.

So, can either someone post them, mail 'em to me, or let me know of an FTP
site where I can pick 'em up.

Much appreciated!

Joe
(not to be confused with the common garden variety)

From:	The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject:	Errata
Date:	Wed, 27 Oct 1993 03:24:05 GMT

Message no. 4 here is ONE of my errata files. I'm short on time and figured you guys
would rather have this one rather than wait unknown eons until I can get the
rest saved as text and uploaded.

This one combines about 4 or 5 posts made over te summer. I went through and
re-arranged things by category on this one (one reason I put things off so
long--I want to organize hte others similarly).

I present you with: Errata (sounds kinda sexy, don't it? :)

J Roberson
**********
Questions And Answers with the Dark Lord

A round of Questions and Answers with your host: Doc X

Today our guest is the developmental director of FASA's role-playing game
Shadowrun. None other than Tom Dowd.

[CANNED APPLAUSE]

MATRIX

What is the load rating of Black IC?
1.5 x Rating.

Where are the graphics subroutines located in the Matrix?
He waited a second and said something to the effect that I knew too
much about computers for his own good. "It is fantasy." The Matrix is
not meant to be taken literaly and is not based on reality. It is
cinematic and should be taken as such.

If you can see a node in the Matrix why do you need the LTG#?
Well you don't really, if you want to get their public datanet, but if
you want that top secret R&D node you need the number. The node may run
off of the same icon but You need to walk through a different door which
you get through with (you guessed it) the LTG#.

Can frames perform system operations?
Not yet.
Tom said that they were working on a Grimoire style book on the Matrix.
"Kind
of like a Virtual Realities II?", I ask. "Yeah, sort of", he
replies. Only a few
deckers currently can make such a frame but when the knowledge gets out
(when
the book is released) then PC's will be able to do it. The main problem,
he said was mechanics. Making a system that would not make the decker obselete.

Will there be rules for Running Naked in the forthcoming VR II?
[GIVES A 'DON'T BE SILLY' KIND OF LOOK] I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF
RUNNING NAKED AND THERE WILL BE NO SUCH RULES IN ANY FUTURE
PRODUCTS

We've had quite a heated discussion on using two cyberdecks in series
to run the Matrix. Your thoughts?
[GIVES THE SAME LOOK AGAIN] NO. CYBERDECKS DON'T WORK THAT
WAY.

Program Enablers?
THEY DON'T EXIST

MAGIC

Can an Elemental Adept summon a watcher?
No.

If someone enters the Area of Effect for a sustained spell (i.e. Chaotic
World) do they become subject to the effects?
No unless the spell is a Physical Manipulation spell with a physical
effect. Mana spells have their circuit fixed when the spell is first cast.

Do physical adepts make a magic roll when they take a deadly wound?
Yes.
"That is the price they pay for having magic."

If spell locks may be turned off, does this allow them to go through
wards and barriers with no problem?
YES

When assensing, what exactly is the +2 target number applied to?
IT IS APPLIED TO ALL TARGET NUMBERS REGARDLESS......WAIT....I AM
CHANNELING THE SPIRIT OF PAUL HUME....[YOU ONLY GET THE +2 FOR
PHYSICAL ACTIONS. ANY ACTIONS WHICH ARE MYSTICAL IN NATURE,
SUCH AS SPELLCASTING AND ASTRALLY PERCIEVING DO NOT GET THE
PENALTY].....THERE YOU HAVE IT. HE WROTE THE GRIMOIRE. THAT IS THE
OFFICIAL RULING AND I HAVE TO AGREE THAT IT IS LOGICAL

THE WORLD

What is in space/near orbit? Do you plan to develop it?
THAT IS IN LONG TERM DEVELOPMENT

How widespread is cyber in the SR world?
IT IS LIMITED AND HIGHLY DEPENDENT ON ONE'S VOCATION

How is cyberware powered?
WHO CARES. IT WORKS. DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE DETAILS

COMBAT

5) If you succeccfully stun a mage with the taser from NAGRL, can the mage
still cast a spell?
NO

RIGGING

6) In vehicle combat, if you get 3 successes, can you attack 3 times and
move once Or attack once and move once?
NOT REALLY. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT TESTS AND THE DICE RESULTS
ARE APPLIED DIFFERENTLY TO GET THE INDIVIDUAL RESULTS. FOR A
FURTHER CLARIFICATION LOOK AT THE RULES CINCERNING VEHICLE
COMBAT IN SRII NEAR THE END OF THE SECTION

7) With a good rigger that has a massive control pool that gets 7
successes on his test, does he attack 7 times?
HE ATTACKS AS MANY TIMES AS HE HAS ACTIONS. WHEN, IN THE BOOKS
IT SAYS ATTACKS IT IS IMPLIED THAT IT MEANS ACTIONS

8) In the RBB, one of the accessories (the one with that replaces the
steering wheel with a trackball) increases your reaction. Does this work
for riggers also? Doce this also increase their Control Pool?
NO AND NO

9) In the RBB there a couple of accessories that increase the reaction of
the user of the vehicle. Does this add to their control pool?
IN REFERENCE TO THIS AND ANY OTHERE DISCREPENCIES BETWEEN THE
SRII AND RBB GO WITH THE RULES IN THE SRII. THEY ARE TWEAKED AND
ADJUSTED AND TAKE PRECEDENCE

Thank you for your time. Anything you'd like to add?

CORPORATE SECURITY HANDBOOK IN THREE WEEKS

And thank you the viewer for tuning in. Now back to your regularly
scheduled program.....

************************************************************* ***************
* Witty Remark * Dylan Northrup <norhtup@*****.cas.usf.edu> * This space *
* Here * (Yeah I know they spelled my name wrong) * for rent *
************************************************************* ***************
"No on can tell us we're wrong/searching our hearts for so long"
-- Pat Benatar 'Love is a Battlefield'
*************************************************************

Okay. As promised, I talked with Tom (Dowd, to those of you who don't know)
today. He was kinda in a hurry, so I didn't get to ask him everything. Here's
most of it, however...

Oz sourcebook: YES! It's currently being written. No details.

African sourcebook: yes, they are looking at one, but long term only (i.e.2-3
years)

Aztlan sourcebook: being worked on. Not till early '95, however. According to
Tom, it has enough to fill a whole book by itself, so a South/Central
/Latin America sourcebook will be done separately.

LA SOURCEBOOK! "I'm not dead!" according to Tom, they put it away for a while
so that it didn't look like it was cashing in on the riots. He said it will be
released, and that the new book will "dovetail" San Fran, parts of California,
and Los Angeles.

Shadowrun Game: he said the NES game has SOLD OUT! They are working on one for the Sega
Genesis, which WILL BE DIFFERENT! I.e. different storyline.
He sounded really excited about the games.

Shadowrun MOVIE! When I told him that you guys were working on a movie
"loosely based on Shadowrun", He (note the capitalization:) LAUGHED!
He told me that they held all the rights. He also said that a movie
was "being negotiated." He couldn't/wouldn't give me any ideas as to
time frame, just that it was in negotiation. Hmmm....

FORTHCOMING PRODUCTS: (this is in order as to when it's due out)
Sprawl Maps: a series of color maps for use with DMZ or miniatures
Corporate Sourcebook: a book on the economic theory of corporations.
it will have a listing of the top 8 corps,
a listing of the interests that all the different corps have
(i.e. how they can influence each other)
and "loose" rules for creating a corp.
Tir Nan Og: Irish sourcebook
Celtic Double-cross: module, set in ireland. Will come out at the
same time as Tir Nan Og.
Germany Sourcebook: December. He said that they had enough to say, so
it is its own entire sourcebook.
Then an adventure (no hints as to what it is)
Mercernary Guidebook: "not a hell of a lot of gear in this" book. I
think it may be more along the lines of how mercenaries act, their
lives, etc. Not cyberware and the like (but I wouldn't put it out of
the question)

In planning: (if not writing)
Lone Star sourcebook
Denver
Shaman Sourcebook
NPC book (book of NPCs to use)

Also, I told him that a couple of the list members followed his directions. He
thought that was pretty funny, and confirmed that he knew what he was talking
about. I said "they wound up at a base or academy". His reply "right, the
Air
Force academy". He thought it was great that you guys actually did it!

AND NOW FOR THE QUESTIONS:
Minotaur sent me a HUGE list, and I'm glad he did! (thanx! BTW: what's the 800
number you had? Send it to me privately, please)
Here's the questions we covered

MAGIC

Can a person who has a Quickening walk through any Ward without any
problems? <YES> <NO>
How about an active spell lock? <YES> <NO>

NO! The spells go into conflict. According to my GM, this changes a LOT of
things. I assume the spell lock question was the same as the quickening ques.
Either way, they fight.

Do you folks allow mages who have lost cyberware to install cyberware
upto that 'lost' point for 'free' or does it cost them another magic
point? <FREE> <COST MORE MAGIC>

I didn't ask, but check Shadowtech. You have a "hole" that you can put more
cyber into.

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the Availibility Rating
for Foci is a constant? Somehow I imagine that the availibility
for these magic devices should be dependent upon their rating.
Should it be changed? <YES> <NO>

"Sure! If you want to, feel free to modify it! Go for it!"
Do you folks believe you could design a sustained Combat Spell? <YES> <NO>

NO!

Could you develop a spell to basically negate the hypersense spells
under the Detection Catagory? <YES> <NO>

Yes, it IS possible. The category? "the same as the hypersense spell itself".

Does an illusion that is seen through disappear or can it still
be a visual impairment. <DISAPPEARS> <REMAINS>

He almost said "this ain't D&D". It remains, but is an obstruction.

If not can an illusion protect a person(s) from a combat spell?
(An illusion of a solid black wall that disables the 'line of sight'
requirement- even though the mage knows the image to be false, it
may still block their vision). <Y> <N>

"if the mage believes the image to be real, then he cannot target through it.
If, however, he knows that the image is false, then he can" nail the mage
through it. If he knows the "black wall" is false, the mage on the other side
is toast. (however, if you are casting a spell, cast a physical area-of-effect
spell, centered on the wall.--my personal opinion-Rev)

How do you folks resolve mages who have increased reactions spells
locked who subsequently de-activate them *after* initiative is rolled?

At this point he took in a deep breath, and sighed. He said that it's not
supposed to happen, but gave me a rough idea of how to do it. One of the
initiative dice should be a different color, to give you your unaugmented
initiative". He also noted that you could not move sooner than 10 combat
phases. I'm not quite sure what he meant. Future callers can ask him that.

CYBERWARE

Can 2 people with datajacks "link" to create a techno-telepathy? <Y>
<N>

No. The transmission rate is too fast. It IS possible with a deck, though
(hitcher jacks)

AI's free in the matrix? (do they exist, etc)

They don't, you can bet the corps are keeping them in tightly.

When are cyberpsychosis rules due?

He said that it will probably be a year or so, that he is writing the
sourcebook. (apparently more than just CP rules, but no details). He said
he'd have to write a novel about it before he wrote the sourcebook. He said
that if you have a negative essense, "life sucks". He also doesn't want to
turn it into Cyberpunk, where CP is an excuse. "I don't want it to be like
cyberpunk, where someone goes 'I'll shotgun the crowd. I can do it since I'm
cyberpsycho'". He wants to do it well, and he's still working out how to do
that.

Since Bonelacing affect Unarmed attacks, and Cyberspurs qualify as Unarmed,
would you then deduce that Bonelacing affects Spurs? <YES> <NO>

No. I asked "but wouldn't it let you hit harder?" Tom said that it absorbs
damage, so it won't.

GENERAL

How long (time) do you folks charge your player to raise a skill?

According to Tom, it doesn't matter. It only gets in the way. Don't worry
about it.

Are Were-beasts outlawed by man (ie the same way there is a bounty out
for vampires?) <YES> <NO>

No. They are much rarer.

Targeting people with a car:
You do it optically. A person doesn't give off nearly the heat, etc that a
vehicle does. He said the sig would easily be a 10-12. Also, he says that the
vehicle-mounted weapons DO have smartgun links (it's assumed, when they are put
into the vehicle), but that it doesn't give you any benefits (rats!).

That's it for now. Certain parts of this DO matter, so you may want to ask
your GM. Most notably, the wards and the spells. This conceivably could
change security. If anyone wants a clarification, I'll get one from my GM,
and post here. If anyone HERE knows, please post it. I don't want to have to
type anymore. BCNU,

Reverend

-----------------------------SHADOWRUN II ERRATA-----------------------------

This errata list is taken directly from the Summer 2054 issue of KA-GE.

"Hey, better this than a third edition..."
--The Folks at FASA

Here are the current known errata for Shadowrun, Second Edition, including
the hard and softcover printings. HC indicates errata to the hardcover
edition only, and SC refers to changes to the softcover edition only.

p. 32 AUTOMATIC SUCCESS AND FAILURE [HC]
Ignore the notation about the Rule of Six giving an automatic success.
That statement is wrong.
p. 32 THE RULE OF SIX [HC]
Add the rule of six does not apply to Initiative (see p. 79).
p. 50 THE COMBAT MAGE
The Combat Mage's Body should be 2 (3), and his Dice Pools should read:
Combat: 7 (9) and Magic 6 (8). Also his heal Moderate Wounds: 3 spell
should simply be Heal: 3.
p. 51 THE DECKER
The Decker's Reaction should read 5 (7)* and her initiative should read
5 (7) + 1D6 (2D6)*. The asterisk still refers to Matrix-only initiative.
Also, her Cyberdeck should have Response Increase 1.
p. 54 THE ELVEN DECKER
The Elven Decker's changes are the same as the Decker, p. 51
p. 56 THE FORMER WAGE MAGE
The Heal Severe Wounds: 3 spell under the Fighter profile should read
simply Heal: 3.
p. 57 THE GANG MEMBER
The Gang Member has a Projectile Weapons skill of 3.
p. 59 THE RIGGER
The Rigger's Essence should read 1.35.
p. 60 THE SHAMAN
The Shaman's Magic Attribute should read simply 6. The Shaman's
Reaction is listed as "Reaction Time." It should read "Reaction."
p. 62 THE STREET SAMURAI
The Street Samurai's Quickness should read 4 (5), his Strength 6 (7),
his Essence .1, his Combat Pool 7, and he should have only one level of
Muscle Replacement.
p. 68 THE SKILL WEB
In the third paragraph, delete the last sentence referring to including
the starting and ending circle count.
p. 69 THE SKILL WEB [HC/GM Screen]
Add a dot (o) between the Firearms, Gunnery, Projectile, and Throwing
skills and their respective (B/R) skills. Those four should resemble
Armed Combat, like so:

-----Skill Name--o--(B/R)

Also, shift the dot associated with Conjuring in toward the skill, so
that the web-section looks like this:

o-----Magical Theory-----
|
|--o--Conjuring
|
o-----Sorcery

p. 79 INITIATIVE TIES
In the first sentence, change the term "Combat Phase" to "Combat
Turn."
p. 80 DELAYING ACTIONS
In the second column, third Paragraph, the third sentence should finish
out "...the delay is broken and the Action does not occur.".
p. 89 RANGED COMBAT MODIFIERS TABLE [HC/GM Screen]
Change the "Recoil, Heavy Weapon" modifier to "+2 per cumulative round
fired that Combat Phase."
p. 89 RECOIL [HC]
In the first paragraph, replace the second half of the paragraph
starting with "Full-autofire..." with the following "Full-autofire
weapons
take a cumulative +1 modifier for each round fired that Combat Phase. That
is, a character choosing to fire a seven-round full-autofire burst
receives a +7 modifier. If that same character chooses instead to fire two
full-autofire bursts, he would have a +5 modifier for the first burst,
and a +10 modifier for the second burst."
The final paragraph (top of the second column) should read "Double the
uncompensated recoil modifier for medium and heavy machine guns (heavy
weapons and shotguns. If a medium machine gun is firing 10 rounds, and
has six points of recoil compensation, its final recoil modifier would be
+8 (10-6=4; 4 doubled is 8)."
p. 92 FULL-AUTO MODE [HC]
Replace the sentence beginning "Each round fire..." with the following:
Each round fired imposes a +1 recoil modifier for the entire group."
Also replace the last sentence on the page (it overruns to p. 93) with:
"The Power Rating of the weapon increases by 1 point for every round fired
in that full-auto burst."
p. 93 FULL-AUTO MODE [HC]
The example has some errors. Replace the fifth to seventh paragraphs
with the following: "The first punk gets a three-round burst, which
increases the Damage Code of the weapon to 10D. The three-round burst
qualifies for 3 points of recoil, which the weapon compensates for. Punk
1: Damage Code 10D, Target Number 3.
"Punk 2 gets a three-round burst too, with that same healthy Damage
Code of 10D. Now, however, six rounds have been fired so the total recoil
modifier is 6. The weapon compensates for 3, leaving 3 for a +3 modifier.
This is the second target this Combat Phase, which adds another +2
modifier. Punk 2: Damage Code 10D, Target Number 8.
"Punk 3 gets the four-round burst (lucky her) that has a Damage Code of
11D. The recoil modifier is now +7 (10-3). Being the third target also
means a +4 modifier added to the attack because of multiple targets. Punk
3: Damage Code 11D, Target Number 14.
p. 96 STRENGTH MINIMUM RATING [HC]
Change the final sentence of the section to read: "A crossbow's Minimum
Strength Rating is used to determine its range."
p. 98 GRENADE BLAST DIAGRAM [HC]
The "5S" notation in the right-hand diagram should read "4S," and
the
total blast consequently "20S."
p. 98 BARRIERS (GENERAL) [HC]
Add to the end of the page: "Always use the base Power Rating of the
round, unmodified for burst or full-auto fire, for comparison against the
Barrier Rating."
p. 102 FRIENDS IN THE MELEE [HC]
The "see page" reference for Multiple Opponents should read "this
page"
instead of p. 90.
p. 108 VEHICLES, WEAPONS, AND MAGIC [HC]
Third paragraph, change the second sentence to: "That is, if the base
Power of the weapon, unmodified by burst or full-auto fire, does not
exceed the rating of the vehicle armor, it will not penetrate."
Due to the printing error, the first line of the fourth paragraph in
the softback edition only should read "The Power and Damage Codes for
grenades and other explosives are affected...."
p. 130 SPELL TARGETING
The fifth sentence should end with "...Except by using enhanced vision
or astral perception, as appropriate."
p. 131 SPELL SUCCESS TEST [HC]
[HC] The final paragraph of the example should read: "Rolling the dice,
Jason gets a total of 10 dice (4+6) against a Target Number of 6 (5+1).
The results are 1, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6. Five of the dice score six,
so there are five successes."
P. 137 FOCUS BONDING TABLE
The second type of focus should be listed as a "Spell Category Focus."
p. 144 SPIRIT TABLE [HC]
[HC] Under Nature Spirits it should be the "Hearth" spirit, not
"Heath"
spirit. There are no candy spirits in Shadowrun.
p. 151 SPELL DIRECTORY
[HC] Change the "Type" of the spells Mana Bolt, Mana Missile, and
Manaball to "Mana," rather than "Physical" as listed.
[HC/SC] Under the Ram spell, delete the line "The target's Barrier
Rating is halved as indicated."
p. 153 MIND PROBE [HC]
Change the Drain Code to [(F+2) +2]D.
p. 155 TREAT [HC]
Change the first sentence of the third paragraph to "Successes from the
Spell Success Test can be used to actually heal boxes of damage, or reduce
the base time, as found on the following chart." Also [HC/SC], in the
second paragraph, change the first sentence to read "The Target Number for
these spells is 10 or 8, minus the target's Essence."
p. 158 SPARK [HC]
Change the Duration of the spell to "Instant."
p. 159 TABLE OF SPELLS [HC]
Change the Type of Mana Missile to "M", the Drain Code of Mind Probe to
[(F/2) +2]D, and the Duration of Spark to "Instant."
P. 168 PASSIVE ALERT [HC]
The second sentence should read "Add 50% to the ratings of all IC."
p. 168 THE OPPOSITION [HC]
Use the Decker Archetype instead of the Corporate Decker as noted,
unless the SRII Gamemaster Screen is owned, then use the Coporate Decker.
p. 202 LEGWORK
In the second column, second sentence, add the following at the end of
the sentence "(see published Shadowrun adventures.)."
p. 205 CORPORATE SECURITY GUARD [HC]
Give the Contact a Willpower of 2.
p. 207 THE FIXER [HC]
Add the skill "Equipment Acquisition: 4" skill.
p. 211 THE STREET COP [HC]
Give the Contact a Willpower of 3.
P. 228-229 Nature Spirits
Delete the word "Attack" from the descriptions of desert and field
spirits. Add the Guard power to desert, forest, and lake spirits. Also add
the Engulf power to lake, river, sea, and swamp spirits.
p. 262 CYBERDECK SYSTEMS ADDITIONS
Change the cost of Hitcher Jacks to "MPCP x 100=Y=," Response Increase
Level 1 to "(MPCP x MPCP) x 100=Y=," Level 2 to "(MPCP x MPCP) x
400=Y=,"
and Level 3 to "(MPCP x MPCP) x 900=Y=."
p. 265 RIGGER GEAR
Change the cost of Vehicle Control Gear to a flat 2,800=Y=.
p. 280 SOURCEBOOK UPDATES/STREET SAMURAI TABLE
Add the Riot Shield, Large to the table with "---" Concealability,
"2"
Ballistic, "---" Impact, "3" Weight, "10/14 days"
Availability, "3,200=Y="
Cost, and "2" Street Index.
p. 283 SOURCEBOOK UPDATES/MINIMUM SECURITY CODE
The last sentence should end with "...with a Security Rating of less
than Green-3."
p. 283 SOURCEBOOK UPDATES/RIGGER BLACK BOOK
In the entry for Vehicle Armor Ratings, add this sentence "Also, divide
the armor point costs by 3, and multiply the maximum allowed by 3."
Under Rigger Control Gear, change the sentence to read "Remote and
Vehicle Control Gear is required for Rigger operation." Also change the
Parts Cost for Rigger (Vehicle) Control Gear to 2,800=Y=.
In the second column, change the sentence to read "The Vehicle Control
Rig prices in SRII supersede those given in the Rigger Black Book where
it is called Rigger Control Gear."
p. 283 UPDATING ADVENTURES
The third sentence should refer to Threat Ratings, not Dodge Pools.
------------------------------GRIMOIRE II ERRATA------------------------------
"If everything was perfect,
it would be a boring world"
--The Folks at FASA
The following is the known errata for the Grimoire, Second Edition.

p. 92 WARDS
Replace the third paragraph of this section with the following:
"Warding requires the magician to make a Sorcery Test against the
desired Force Rating of the ward. The astral rating of the ward is equal
to that Force Rating and it remains active for a number of days equal to
the number of successes. The magician may choose not to use all his
successes, making it easier to resist Drain for setting wards."

MAGICAL SUPPLIES
Availability Cost
SI
Fetish Focus 3/6 hrs Rating x 3,000 1
Ally Conjuring Materials (Force)/36 hrs 1,000 per unit 1
Ward Casting Materials (Force)/36 hrs 1,000 per unit 1
Watcher Casting Materials (Force)/36 hrs 1,000 per unit 1
ENCHANTING MATERIALS COSTS
Material Raw Form Refined Form Radical Form
Herbals 50 100 200
Crystals 100 200 400
Semi-Precious Gems 200 400 800
Precious Gems 500 1,000 2,000
Iron 50 100 200
Copper 100 200 400
Silver 300 600 1,200
Gold 10,000 20,000 40,000
Mercury 600 1,200 2,400
Tin 30 60 120
Lead 30 60 120

!!Orichalcum: 88,000 per unit

SPELL FORMULAS
Drain Level Price Drain Level Price
!L 50 x Force !M 100 x Force
!S 500 x Force !D 1,000 x Force

--Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat
PGP Public Key Block available upon request Ask about rat-pgp.el
||||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |||||
Meddle not in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your
cyberdeck. --Jeff Wilder (wilder@****.mik.uky.edu)
**************************************************************************
Last night I spoke with the well known Dr. Doom, who informed me that he had
precipitated conversation and well articulated discourse with the Dark Lord
(i.e. spoke with him). He spoke at some length with Tom about Vision
Magnifiers and Smartguns.

!1) They are either ON or OFF. A mag-3 either is off, or provides you with the
full magnification.

!2) Yes, (yet again!), you CAN use Mags and Smartgun links, at least if both of
them are in the cybereye.

!3) HOWEVER... if the mag causes the range modifier to fall off the chart, then
you will take a +2!

Example: I have a Mag-3, and am aiming at something at
extreme range. Extreme=>Long=>Medium=>Short, no problems.

Example 2: I am now aiming at something at Medium Range. Medium=>Short=>off
chart, and I now take a +2.

!4) This CAN be gotten around, however... you can buy a Mag that will go in
between, at a cost of +50%.
-----Good hunting!-----Rev-----The Reverend
**************************************************************************
Okay Boys and Girls, 'Runners of all ages!!!!!! Here is the last in the
installments of "What I learned from Tom from some expensive long-distance
phone call" Q and A sessions. From now on I have a cheap and easy way to
get in touch with the Dark Lord on High (NO MORE LONG-DISTANCE!!!). I will
continue to accept submissions for the inevitable next installment
of "I have a question with your guest Tom Dowd".

So here are the questions and answers as asked by me and answered by Tom.
There will be an addendum because I was not able to ask all of the
questions that I had at the time.

MAGIC

> In GrimII there is two MANA spells with elemental effects: Manablast &
> Stunblast! Is this a major GrimII bug or do I miss something?

These spells are wrong. Reverse engineer them without the elemental
effects to get the drain for the new spells.

> For PhysAds, exactly how many sense improvements do you have to take to get,
> oh, Vision Magnification 3?

3 Levels.

> I believe the Transformation spells (Critter) Form,
> Shapechange & Transform should have a target number of Body(R), Body &
> Body(R), respectively. After all, they ARE physical spells. Besides, I think
> it seems more logical.

The Willpower roll shows the persons acceptance of the spell. Body rolls
are for damage to the body. Transformation spells do not damage the body,
but merely change it.

[Stuff about vision Magnifications having the same effects for all
weapons, ala staging the ranges down]

TECH

> Sorry doesnt make sense, unless you have to specify the weapon type you
> want to
> use the Magnification for.... afterall the ranges for a light pistol is
> considerable different than those of a sporting rifle, yet according to the
> text, they work fine for each... yet a level III somehow compensates for
> the different ranges of a weapon, BUT NOT for different ranges period...
The Vision Magnifications work the way they do and are defined that way
because it was the easiest and simplest way that they had thought of at
the time. It may not be realistic but if you want to make up house rules,
go ahead. If you want to deal with the complications, it's your game.

WORLD

> What will DOC WAGON do with one client, when this person
> is full of illegal cyberware(no permits), as Wired Ref. ,Smartlink,
> Cyberweapons.....
> Will they call the cops or not.
> And when they call the cops who will then use DOC WAGON service.

This sort of thing falls under the heading of Doctor/Patient privelage.
DW will not notify the authorities.

> What is the place of the Church in the modern world of 2054?

Very minor. They have areas that they control but their sphere of
influence is limited.

RULES

> How LONG can someone be surprised according to SR II ?

Until the next action.

> Q7. When firing weapons mounted on drones can you use the optical
> targeting option, and if so at what range (I would imagine a drone would
> have some sort of visual magnification system[s] )?

You may use optical targeting with drones.

> 1) Two weapons:
> What are the effects, additional attacks, do you get to roll
> two separate attacks, or is it one attack modified somehow. Etc.
> Details, Etc.

"Good question." There are no definite rules for using two weapons in
melee. This falls under the heading of, If You Want A House Rule Make One.
For two weapons in ranged combat, the following effects occur:
You get 2 seperate attacks. There is a TN of +2 for each attack. Recoil
modifiers for each attack apply to both. Any smartlink modifiers or laser
sight modifiers are not taken into account.

CYBERLIMBS

> Q1. Is the starting strength rating of a cyberlimb equal to (1)The
> character's current strength attribute, (2)The racial average of whatever
> race the character is or, (3)The human racial average of 3?

(1) The character's starting strength.

> Q2. Do trolls have to pay extra for cyberlimbs with a +1 reach?

No. Happy Birthday.

> Q3. If a character with a cyberlimb increases his strength attribute with
> karma does the cyberlimb's strength also increase, does it decrease when
> that strength decreasing drug from Shadowtech is used against the character?

If you pay the karma, you get the increase. The drug does decrease
yourstrength. The overriding reason for both answers is that you are not
only dealing with the limb but all of the supporting physiological
processes. When they are increased, you can get more leverage and hence
more strength. When they are decreased, you get less leverage and hence
less strength.

> Q4. Do you have to get a whole new cyberlimb if you want to increase it's
> strength or do you just get a street doc to modify the one you already have?

No, you spend the karma and it happens.

> Q5. Is it possible to get accessories like smartlink or gas vent systems for
> cyberguns?

Yes. They are normal guns. The only difference is they have more
electronics.

> Q6. Is it possible to use spells that change the physical dimensions of a
> being on beings with cyberwear?

You may shapechange beings with cyberware.

OTHER

> Q8. Someone has recently told me that FASA has sold some kind of rights for
> Shadowrun to Disney please verify or deny if you are in the position to do
> so. What the hell would Disney want to do with Shadowrun?

Well, the story goes like this. Tim Diseny has bought a significant
portion of FASA's sister company: Virtual Worlds Entertainment. They are
not FASA and he is not Disney Inc.

List of Fucked Splls and the women who love them

Manipulation Spells

> 1) All control manipulations in both Shadowrun II and Grimoire II have a
> target of Willpower [Resisted]. Is this a rule that was not written in the
> Grimoire or is this using the Mana Spells are resisted by Willpower rule?
(Unwritten rule) >>>(Mana Spell Rule)<<< (target number should
be 4/6)

> 2) Several manipulation spells in the Grimoire have a target number of
> Object Resistance Table (Spells are Animate, Lock, and Seal). Shouldn't the
> target number for these spells be 4?
>>>(They are Correct)<<< (Target number should be 4)

> 3) The bind spell has target of Quickness [Resisted]. Is that correct or
> should the target number be 4?
>>>(It is correct)<<< (Target number should be 4)

> 4) (Critter) Form, Shapechange and Transform all have a target of
> Willpower. As shouldn't the target be either 4 as manipulation spells, or
> Body as Physical Spells?
>>>(Willpower is correct)<<< (target is 4) (target is Body)

> 5) Under the manipulation spell creation rules it says that "the target
> of a manipulation spell that forces a change in shape, form, or behavior must
> resist the spell." Does this mean that the voluntary subjects of (Critter)
> Form and Shapechange have to resist the spell? If so what characteristic
> do they use to resist?
>>>(No)<<< (Yes) (Willpower) (Body)

"That line should read 'the unwilling target of a manipulation spell...'"

Combat Spells

> 1) Is FASA aware that the Manablast and Stunblast spells presented in the
> Grimoire are illegal? They both are mana spells with elemental effects.
Now they do. See the previous answer on this topic.

> 2) Why are the Manaball spell from SRII and the Mana Cloud spell in the
> Grimiore exactly the same?

They are meant to show that two spells can have the same game affects
but have different explanations in 'reality' They do the same thing but
they do it in different ways.

> 3) Shouldn't the Drain for Hellblast be [(F/2)+5]D not [(F/2)+6]D?

Yes, it should be [(F/2)+5]D.

Health Spells

> 1) Shouldn't the Decrease Reaction spells be one Drain Level higher than
> the other Decrease Reaction spells, just like the Increase Reaction spells?

Yes.

> 2) Why is there no Increase Reaction +4 spell, but there is a Decrease
> Reaction -4 spell and a Increase Cybered Reaction +4 spell.

Technically there should be

>Okay, the question I have is, with the two riot shields, they provide some
>balistic cover... thats just fine, but traditionally shields ahve been used for
>mainly melee purposes, and well, that feature has been removed all together.
>so I am looking for some advice/input on how to adjust the mechanics of Melee
>to account for shields... any ideas?

For the small shield, give it a 2 Impact rating. For the Large shield,
give it a 4 Impact rating.

> I have a problem with the killing hands skill. The rulebook says that spirit
> have invulnerabillity against normal weapons. That means they have an
> armour-class equal to twice their force. It is also mentioned that this
doesn't count
> against killing hands. Does that mean, they have NO armour against a
> physical adept using killing hands?!

Yes it does.

> Do PhysAds use Willpower or Sorcery skill instead of Unarmed Combat?

They use whichever is higher.

> Question for all you magic types out there: If a mage is projecting
> and another mage casts sleep or stun on his physical body, what happens?
> Does his astral form get sucked back to his body? what if the body has
> been moved since he went astral? The second question is about foci. If
> the astral part of the foci goes with the mage when projecting, can it be
> dropped or taken away?
Nothing happens. They mages physical body lays there in astral space
unconscious. As for the foci, no it cannot be stolen.

> 1. Are quickened/spelllocked spells active in astral space
> For example: Intelligence +4, Charisma +4, Willpower +4...
> ( Spells that could really beef up a projecting mage )

Yes they are active. Can you say "Yippe!"? I knew you could!

> 2. Are quickened/Spellocked spells active when shapechanged, and if so
> how is initiative resolved? (Several Critters have extra initiative dice)
> For example: shapechanging into a tiger and having increase
> reflexes +3d6 quickened.

Quickened spells affecting the Mental abilities are still in effect.
Physical spells are not. You figure iniative using the new ratings.

> 1.What skills (Active, Language, Knowledge, B/R) can the encephalon's
> task pool be used for?

Any knowledge or B/R skill.

> 2.Are gas vents and silencers mutually exclusive (Since gas vents can
> never be removed, can you ever use a gun with them and not make a lot of
> noise)?

Yes, they are. (That's what it means.)

> 3. Ask him whether or not you can ground through Quickenings, and get a
> damn good rationalization that works within the magic theory.

You can ground through ANY spell that has an effect on the real world, be
it mana or physical.

> 4. Tell him to ask Paul Hume about all this "how do Combat AoE spells
> ground though" stuff.

They ground through the hole in astral space created by the spell or
dual-natured being, or whatever. They then work on all the beings in the
area that the mage could see from his position in real space. If the
casting mage is projecting, you figure LOS from the place in real space
corresponding to the place in Astral where he is.

> 5. Ask him what the proper damage code for the Ares Viper Slivergun is
> supposed to be.

As listed. 9S. Ouch.

> 6. Ask him if it's okay that I change one of his rules now and again :)

Absoulutely not. There is a secret division of FASA that deals with this
problem exclusively. This division is where they originally got the idea
for Bioware. :)

> 7. Ask him what the ShadowTech Adrenal Pump is compatible with, in terms of
> magic and cyberware.

Everything. So get those Boosted Reflexes and that Increased Cyber +4
locked on you today and do your imitation of the Flash today!!

> 8. Ask him why Boosted Reflexes aren't bioware.

Beacuse the rules for Bioiware had not been developed at the time. For a
real explanation, because they chemical treatments used on your nerves are
so toxic that they destroy your essence.

That is the end of this install ment of "Tom Talks". Look for session #2
soon on a terminal near you.

Doc X
****************************************************************************
* Witty Remark * Dylan Northrup <norhtup@*****.cas.usf.edu> * This space *
* Here * (Yeah I know they spelled my name wrong) * for rent *
****************************************************************************
"You can feel it/Rhythm is a dancer" --Snap 'Rhythm is a Dancer'
****************************************************************************
Contacts

As we all know, CONTACTS can make or break a character sometimes, and
INFORMATION is power, just like magic...

Anyway, my question/observation is this...

I have been looking for "official" places to ask questions and stuff about
shadowrun, and this is what i've found so far...if anyone has any others
please let me know...

fasatom@***.com tom dowd
73020.752@**********.com paul hume (has written/contributed to many
SR sourcebooks...i saw that he
was replying to OODLES of
questions
from people on Compuserve, and a
lot of them about magic and
grounding...)
FASA.SUPPORT@**********.com
not sure about this one, just saw it in a compuserve forum, may not work

i cannot say if these addresses are correct or still current...as i said
above, paul hume was answering a lot of questions about the game...

| rcoster@*****.net Currently in Baltimore, MD |
| Richard C. Osterhout but hope to be home in |
| professional nerd Orlando, FL soon!!! |

From:	Stefan Hahn <HAHN@***.EDU>
Subject:	errata
Date:	Wed, 27 Oct 1993 12:00:45 -0700

Message no. 5 My 4 ha'penniies worth:
Samurai Honor Code: Are we talking Bushido, "the Way of the Warrior," here?
I gotta tellya, the samurai I've seen in SR have been money-grubbing
mercs who'll do anything to get the job done and make a dishonest buck,
including ripping off their Mr. Johnsons. Picture this:

*Scene of Bloodwing and Spectre (our cybered-to-the-gills combat monster)
having a standoff on a hospital roof, 1 a.m.*
Spectre: "Shall we do it the old-fashioned way, then? Mano-a-mano?"
Bloodwing: "Very well. Let's do it."
*both characters take off their Incredibly Heavy Weapons TM and draw katanas.*
Spectre: "We thought you were dead."
Bloodwing: (wry smile) "It seems you were mistaken."
Spectre: "Perhaps. But not for long."
*the two circle each other like great cats, waiting for an opening.*
Spectre: "Before I kill you, there's something you should know..."
Bloodwing: "Yes?"
Spectre: "You always were a moron."
*Whips out his concealed Ares Squirt and plasters Bloodwing with Hyper right in
the face, while two of my city spirits (I was hiding behind some air
conditioning machinery on the roof) latch onto him. He didn't last long.*

Gender Benders: Some of my friends hate it when guys play gals or vice-versa,
but I don't have a problem with it, IF YOU CAN DO IT CONVINCINGLY. I can't
stand the stereotypical Butch Bitch w/ Big Blaster. Booorrring. If, on the
other hand, you can get more in touch with your female side, (or male, if
you're not) There's no reason you can't play a convincing Member Of the
Opposite SEx (M.O.O.S.E.), Alien, Small Furry Creature From Alpha Centauri...
\\\You just have to learn to look at things from a new point of view\\\

Old Characters in New Campaigns: As long as they aren't munchkinous, a lot of
high-powered characters can fit in with the average campaign. I'd say, however,
that the old character should be within 25% of the accumulated karma of the
average party member. Dropping in your 50-Karma Monster with a group of 10-K
arma newbies is only going to make the other players hate your guts and plot to
kill you for your stuff.

****************************************************************/***\**********
HAHN@***.EDU***************************************************//***\\*********
***********************************************************(\*( |***| )*/)*****
**********************************************************( ^\ \***/ /^ )****
***********************************************************\ \*/ /*****
************************************************************(_ _/*\_ _)******
**************************************************************[ (*O*) ]********
***************************************************************\|***|/*********
****************************************************************\***/**********
WITH ORION'S SWORD THE HUNTER AROSE AND CONQUERED THE WORLD WITH FURY AND GRACE

From:	Fahnuir <FAHNUIR%PTEARN.BITNET@*******.CNUSC.FR>
Subject:	errata
Date:	Thu, 28 Oct 1993 08:43:52 PRT

Message no. 6 ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>My 4 ha'penniies worth:
>Samurai Honor Code: Are we talking Bushido, "the Way of the Warrior," here?
> I gotta tellya, the samurai I've seen in SR have been money-grubbing
>mercs who'll do anything to get the job done and make a dishonest buck,
>including ripping off their Mr. Johnsons. Picture this:

>*Scene of Bloodwing and Spectre (our cybered-to-the-gills combat monster)
>having a standoff on a hospital roof, 1 a.m.*
>Spectre: "Shall we do it the old-fashioned way, then? Mano-a-mano?"
>Bloodwing: "Very well. Let's do it."
>*both characters take off their Incredibly Heavy Weapons TM and draw katanas.*
>Spectre: "We thought you were dead."
>Bloodwing: (wry smile) "It seems you were mistaken."
>Spectre: "Perhaps. But not for long."
>*the two circle each other like great cats, waiting for an opening.*
>Spectre: "Before I kill you, there's something you should know..."
>Bloodwing: "Yes?"
>Spectre: "You always were a moron."
>*Whips out his concealed Ares Squirt and plasters Bloodwing with Hyper right i
>n the face, while two of my city spirits (I was hiding behind some air
>conditioning machinery on the roof) latch onto him. He didn't last long.*
>
>Gender Benders: Some of my friends hate it when guys play gals or vice-versa,
>but I don't have a problem with it, IF YOU CAN DO IT CONVINCINGLY. I can't
>stand the stereotypical Butch Bitch w/ Big Blaster. Booorrring. If, on the
>other hand, you can get more in touch with your female side, (or male, if
>you're not) There's no reason you can't play a convincing Member Of the
>Opposite SEx (M.O.O.S.E.), Alien, Small Furry Creature From Alpha Centauri...
>\\\You just have to learn to look at things from a new point of view\\\

I believe that no Shaman can have more than one spirit under his control at
the same time (See page 65 on The Grimoire 2nd Edition - Multiple Spirits in on
e domain.).

I'd like to ask one thing now. Does anyone has any idea of how Maria Mercuria
l music sounds like? Is it like Maddona's music?(Well, i hope not!) Is it some
thing like Nirvana?(I don't think Nirvana wouldn't sound that good in the voice
of a woman.) Is it like Pet Shop Boys?(Naaaa...) Is it like Guns n' Roses (G
od wouldn't be so unfair to 2053 people as HE was to us.). Is it like Billy Ido
ll's last album?(That album of Cyberpunk only has the name...) Is it like Metta
lica? Depeche Mode? The Cure? KLF? New Kids on the Block?(*gasp*) Napalm Death?
DRI? 2 Unlimited? Doors? Beattles? Paula Abdul? Enya? Digital Orgasm? Pearl Jam
? (Well... it certainly has to be te kind of music that the 'average Joe' likes
.)

What i asked for Mercurial serves as well for Something Brothers, The Elementa
ls and Concrete Dreams.

Send me a mail about this (even flames are wellcome)
Fahnuir

In your room, i feel you and i just can't get enough...
Judas

P.S.- I'm not joking! I'd really like to know how it sounds like!

From:	The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject:	Re: errata
Date:	Thu, 28 Oct 1993 14:05:09 GMT

Message no. 7 Stefan:
I think the music sounds however you want it to sound, given whatever
clues you can pick up, especially regarding names. Concrete Dreams, for
instance, is probably a version of Concrete Blonde. As for Meria. . .Her
nsame makes me think of Maria Carey. Is Meria married to A Sony Exec? :)

J Roberson

From:	The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject:	Errata
Date:	Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:26:23 +0000 (GMT)

Message no. 8 On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Mark Steedman wrote:

> > I just decided to take a look in my Grimthingy , and look what I noticed
> > on page 92: the line "Every 2 successes rolled give the ward 1 Rating
> > Point as an astral barrier." is crossed out, and so is the word
"also" in
> > the next sentence. This is from the errata for the Grimoire II, and that
> > way, you always get a ward of the desired Force but the time it will last
> > varies with how well you roll your Sorcery test...
> >
> Ah!!
> You wouldn't happen to have that errata in a fromat you could mail
> would you. I don't seen to have picked that one up in my web
> searching.
>
Gurth, if you could post it to the list I'm sure many would appreciate it.
Are there any other errata sheets out there that people could post?

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Life is a choice, Death....an obligation."-Me
Shadowrun WWW site at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun

From:	"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:23:54 +0100

Message no. 9 The Digital Mage said on 1 Feb 96...

> Gurth, if you could post it to the list I'm sure many would appreciate it.
> Are there any other errata sheets out there that people could post?

It looks like the Grimoire errata has been posted already, but apart from
that one, I've got errata for SR2 softback, SR2 hardback (*much* longer :(
), FoF, and Prime Runners. I think I downloaded most of them from Paolo's
page, but I could post them here if nobody is against it :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sometimes it feels like )@&*()@&%#68%3*(48@&%
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(----) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:01:52 -0700

Message no. 10 > No, they are still being written. In fact, its a great idea to post any
>problems you notice to the list, since I'm filtering them off to the author of
>said errata.

Sure. My group of players are good at finding broken rules.

Barriers: Is base power of weapons used, or is it intentionally not so anymore?
While they're at it, could they fix those rules?

Layering Armor: The last sentence about helmets "not counting as layered
armor, but counting for purposes of determining penalties" doesn't seem to
mean anything. So, if I have an Armor Jacket and a helmet and my Quickness
is 5 my penalties are?

What happened to Team Karma pools? Are those not in existance anymore?

Regarding the Flame Aura power: when they say "melee attack" do they mean,
any melee attack, or only unarmed? The example talks about unarmed, but I
don't trust examples. If so, why would someone hitting a fire elemental
with a sword take damage. Better yet, why would someone hitting with a
staff?

The Riot Shield thing could be nasty. It says, everyone gets a +2 penalty
to hit (attacker & defender) except that 2 or more points of reach will
negate it. So a troll with a sword or someone with a combat axe and shield
will be really nasty. What if both sides have shields? Are the penalties
negated for both, or neither?

The running rules need to be fixed. Here's a broken example (due to my
friend Jeff Barrett): Street Sam, Quickness 6, is accosted by 6 punks.
Street Samurai gets Init 27, Punks get 9.

Due to a streak of cowardice, he decides to run away. Okay, he can run 6 x
3 = 18 meters. Lets say he's got Athletics, rolls successes, and boosts his
Quickness to 9. So now he can run 9 x 3 = 27 meters.

On First Initiative Pass, Street Sam runs 9 meters (27 meters divided by 3
actions). On their turn, Punks run after him, 3 x 4 quickness = 12 meters
divided by 1 action = 12 meters, and catch the Street Sam.

Anyone else see a problem with faster characters being caught by slower,
less agile opponents?

Does the Power x 1.5 thing apply only to cyberspurs, or can it also be used
with two swords? Why or why not? Does anyone else forsee problems with
resisting 22M applied by a troll physad with two swords?

I'm sure we'll come up with more.

>Mongoose

--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu

From:	Autonomous Zone <azone@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:55:00 -0500

Message no. 11 > > No, they are still being written. In fact, its a great idea to post any
> >problems you notice to the list, since I'm filtering them off to the author of
> >said errata.

FYI, there will be an SR3 errata sheet posted to the FASA web page fairly
soon, probably within a week or two. I'll let you all know as soon as it
is.

> Barriers: Is base power of weapons used, or is it intentionally not so anymore?
> While they're at it, could they fix those rules?

Same as in SR2. We tried, and we couldn't come up with anything good.
Mike's looking for good ideas, if you have any.

> Layering Armor: The last sentence about helmets "not counting as layered
> armor, but counting for purposes of determining penalties" doesn't seem to
> mean anything. So, if I have an Armor Jacket and a helmet and my Quickness
> is 5 my penalties are?

Helmets and shields only count towards penalizing your Combat Pool, as it
describes in the paragraph above layering armor.

If you have Quickness 5, a jacket (5/3), and a helmet (+1/+2), your
ballistic and impact ratings only exceed your Quickness by 1 point, so you
have no Combat Pool penalties.

> What happened to Team Karma pools? Are those not in existance anymore?

Cut for space. Sorry.

> The running rules need to be fixed. Here's a broken example (due to my
> friend Jeff Barrett): Street Sam, Quickness 6, is accosted by 6 punks.
> Street Samurai gets Init 27, Punks get 9.

There was a goof in the Movement Rates. Basically, the way it's supposed
to work is that your character can choose to Walk or Run (or stay put)
each Turn. Your Movement Rate is then divided by the total number of
Initiative Passes there will be in the turn to determine how much your
character moves each Pass. (Yes, your character will move even during
passes in which they on't have an action.)

This will be covered in the Errata. As will much more. Keep it coming!

Rob Boyle
--

@*> AUTONOMOUS ZONE INFOSHOP | Anarchist-Community-Activist Resource Center
@*> street: 2012 W. Chicago Ave. | mail: 1573 N. Milwaukee #420 CHILL 60622
@*> phone: 773.252.6019 | http://www.neiu.edu/~aadams/azone.html <--NEW!
@*> azone@***.com or chill@****.ucsd.edu | Where the State Stops Life Begins!

From:	Alex Yang <gt0697b@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:31:57 -0700

Message no. 12 Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU> raised several interesting
points about SR3 mechanics, as of the first printing. I apologize if
this post seems to rehash anything anyone may have said since I
received last night's digest.

Note: I realize that my solutions require bookkeeping.

Barrier Fix: I would compare the base power of the attack against the
barrier rating. If the base power is lower than the barrier rating,
the attack bounces and damages nothing. Otherwise, the attack damages
the barrier as follows: multiply the barrier rating by 10 to determine
the number of "condition boxes" possessed by the barrier. Damage level
determines the number of condition boxes destroyed. The amount of
Power exceeding the barrier rating also destroys a number of condition
boxes. The number of additional successes against TN2 also destroys a
number of condition boxes. Bursts destroy boxes equal to damage level
multiplied by number of bullets.

Ex: Samurai shoots at a Nightsky's armored glass window with a burst
from his EX-powered Savalette Guardian. Barrier rating=8. Base
Power (9+2 from EX bullets). The samurai damages the window with 5
successes against TN2, and will shoot through to whatever's on the
other side. The window has 80 condition boxes. It takes 16 boxes of
damage, reducing effective Barrier Rating by 1 (Medium damage=3; Power
exceeding barrier=3; Additional successes=4; Two more bullets=6).

Armor Clarification: Samurai wears Armor Jacket (5/3) and Security
Helmet (+1/+2) with Quickness 5, for a total of 6/5. No penalties to
combat pool, +1 penalty to Quickness tests, -1 to Quickness when
running. He adds a large riot shield (+2/+3) for a total of 8/8.
Reduce combat pool by 2 (((8-5)/2, round down)+((8-5)/2, round down)),
+3 penalty to Quickness tests, -3 to Quickness when running. He adds
an Armor Vest w/Plates under his Armor Jacket, for a total of 10/9,
but suffers Quickness penalties as if wearing a total of 12/11. Thus,
combat pool is reduced by 3, +7 Quickness penalty, and he can no
longer move, according to the rules, but I'd let him waddle at
Quickness 1, assuming that he's strong enough to carry all this
without further penalties.

Team Karma Pools: Ugh. I won't speculate on how a character's fate can
be improved by linking it to the fates of others in his team, since it
can lean to long diatribes.

Flame aura: Like striking electricty with a metal sword, I imagine a
pulse of flame racing along whatever just contacted this being,
consuming some weapons but ultimately damaging the wielder. This seems
odd if you're striking with a 20' whip, but otherwise the GM will need
to rub two brain cells together and rule on a case by case basis.

Riot shields: Apply the penalty to both attacker and defender. Ex:
Troll w/combat axe and shield attacks samurai with spurs. Troll with
Reach 3 may choose to attack offensively, and thus aim for TN 3 (Base
4 - Reach 3 + Shield Penalty 2). The samurai would counterattack
against TN 6 (Base 4 + Shield Penalty 2). Or, the troll may choose to
attack defensively against TN 6 (Base 4 + Shield Penalty 2) and force
the samurai to counterattack against TN 9 (Base 4 + Reach 3 + Shield
Penalty 2).

Running: As you noticed, a huge gap exists. If you break the rules and
allow characters to move every action at running or walking rates, we
revert back to SR2 and start seeing cybered roadrunners zooming along
at 140 kph. If you disallow movement until your actual combat phase,
regardless of initiative pass, you end up with people who can shoot at
roadrunners but cannot chase them until the roadrunner has vanished
around the corner. Personally, I prefer option 1, as it allows
spectacular chase scenes. Then again, I would also allow characters to
run at every action within a combat turn.

Dual weapons: whether it's spurs, swords, Killing Hands taken twice,
or titanium-laced fists, I would allow the power boost if they also
accepted the +2 penalty for simultaneous second attacks. If additional
spurs have been implanted, I would count the number of limbs
simultaneously being brought into play, e.g. a knee spur into the
groin along with an arm spur into the throat, or two elbow spurs back
into the stomach. I suppose I would even allow Killing Elbows, or
Killing Feet. I gag at the thought of 22M troll swordmasters, but if
it's fair for the goose....

Later,
Alex
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From:	"Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:02:29 -0400

Message no. 13 Alex Yang wrote:
> Note: I realize that my solutions require bookkeeping.
>
Hoo boy. btw, your Reply-to is overriding the list.

> Barrier Fix: I would compare the base power of the attack against the
> barrier rating. If the base power is lower than the barrier rating,
> the attack bounces and damages nothing. Otherwise, the attack damages
> the barrier as follows: multiply the barrier rating by 10 to determine
> the number of "condition boxes" possessed by the barrier. Damage level
> determines the number of condition boxes destroyed. The amount of
> Power exceeding the barrier rating also destroys a number of condition
> boxes. The number of additional successes against TN2 also destroys a
> number of condition boxes. Bursts destroy boxes equal to damage level
> multiplied by number of bullets.
>
This is an awful lot of work. Really. The number of successes should
only have a minor effect, if any (you hit the window, it shatters).
There should probably be a way to reflect the type of barrier (hard or
soft), so you can shoot through gypsum board without really damaging
it, or shoot through a window and shatter it.

I guess the best way to do that would be to have Armour and Body-type
ratings. Glass would have a higher armour, lower body. Plywood would
have a lower armour and higher body. Gypsum would have no armour,
medium body.

How's this: Subtract the armour rating of the barrier from the base
power of the attack. If it's >0, apply any modifiers for multiple
rounds (so penetration isn't increased, but damage is). If the power
is less than the barrier's body rating, subtract one from the rating.
If the power is greater than or equal to the body rating, a hole is
made with a radius of 5cm, +10cm per damage level above light. (So,
burst fire ups the damage level and thus the size of hole)

(I'm going to base these numbers on the basis of a normal person trying
to punch their way through).
Material (B/A)
Glass 2/3
Armoured Glass 6/9
Gypsum 3/0
Plywood 4/3

Comments?

James Ojaste

From:	Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:35:38 -0700

Message no. 14 Just some more things I've run down:

Movement modifiers: On page 108, it says Walking characters apply +1 to all
Success Tests, and Running characters take +4. On p. 112 on the Ranged
Combat Modifiers Table, Running and Walking are specifically listed as
modifiers. On p. 123 for Melee Modifiers, it is not listed.

Do characters garner movement modifiers for Melee? Why? (In many cases, you
will be executing melee attacks while moving, such as doing Irimi Nage or
Double Roundhouse.)

On p. 188, characters can wield weapons while engaging Spirits in a contest
of wills. It says "(the weapon is only a symbol of the fighter's will, it
has no actual effect on the spirit in this type of combat). However, the
weapon's Reach bonus does apply".

Why? (Be sure and grab a broom if you need to fend off that Elemental!)

Since armor does not apply and the spirit gets no combat pool, it seems
like this is by far the most efficient means to damage a spirit.

Side issue: Why does Immunity to ... work differently from Hardened Armor?
(Immunity can bounce attacks equal to its rating, Hardened Armor bounces
attacks less than its rating.)

On p. 176 it discusses what happens to astral forms suffering Deadly stun
damage (they are disrupted). What happens to astral forms suffering Deadly
physical damage? Especially given that it is the prevalent damage type (you
must explicitly specify stun damage to do only stun damage).

If two opposing characters have Shields and +2 Reach each, what happens?

Is there a maximum fire rate for weapons? If so, why? If not, why do Sentry
Guns (p. 236) have one?

Just wait until my next Shadowrun game this evening: I'm sure more errata
will crop up.
--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu

From:	Autonomous Zone <azone@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:44:32 -0500

Message no. 15 > Side issue: Why does Immunity to ... work differently from Hardened Armor?
> (Immunity can bounce attacks equal to its rating, Hardened Armor bounces
> attacks less than its rating.)

They work the same. Hardened armor bounces anything that doesn't "exceed
the rating of the being's armor" which means an attack that's equal gets
bounced too.

Rob Boyle

--

@*> AUTONOMOUS ZONE INFOSHOP | Anarchist-Community-Activist Resource Center
@*> street: 2012 W. Chicago Ave. | mail: 1573 N. Milwaukee #420 CHILL 60622
@*> phone: 773.252.6019 | http://www.neiu.edu/~aadams/azone.html <--NEW!
@*> azone@***.com or chill@****.ucsd.edu | Where the State Stops Life Begins!

From:	Steve Menard <SMenard@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:12:33 -0400

Message no. 16 > -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Getchell [mailto:acgetchell@*******.EDU]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 8:36 PM
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Errata
>
>
> Just some more things I've run down:
>
> Movement modifiers: On page 108, it says Walking characters
> apply +1 to all
> Success Tests, and Running characters take +4. On p. 112 on
> the Ranged
> Combat Modifiers Table, Running and Walking are specifically listed as
> modifiers. On p. 123 for Melee Modifiers, it is not listed.
>
> Do characters garner movement modifiers for Melee? Why? (In
> many cases, you
> will be executing melee attacks while moving, such as doing
> Irimi Nage or
> Double Roundhouse.)
>
AFAIK movement modifiers do not apply to Melee Combat.

> On p. 188, characters can wield weapons while engaging
> Spirits in a contest
> of wills. It says "(the weapon is only a symbol of the
> fighter's will, it
> has no actual effect on the spirit in this type of combat).
> However, the
> weapon's Reach bonus does apply".
>
> Why? (Be sure and grab a broom if you need to fend off that
> Elemental!)
>
Anyone here with a specializations in Brooms? :)

> Since armor does not apply and the spirit gets no combat
> pool, it seems
> like this is by far the most efficient means to damage a spirit.
>
re-read it, Spirits DO get combat pool .. and Karmal pool and Astral
Combat Move ....

> Side issue: Why does Immunity to ... work differently from
> Hardened Armor?
> (Immunity can bounce attacks equal to its rating, Hardened
> Armor bounces
> attacks less than its rating.)
>

> On p. 176 it discusses what happens to astral forms suffering
> Deadly stun
> damage (they are disrupted). What happens to astral forms
> suffering Deadly
> physical damage? Especially given that it is the prevalent
> damage type (you
> must explicitly specify stun damage to do only stun damage).
>
If by astral form you means projecting characters ... they simple
die.

> If two opposing characters have Shields and +2 Reach each,
> what happens?
>

> Is there a maximum fire rate for weapons? If so, why? If not,
> why do Sentry
> Guns (p. 236) have one?
>

> Just wait until my next Shadowrun game this evening: I'm sure
> more errata
> will crop up.
> --Adam
>
> acgetchell@*******.edu
> "Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent."
> --Sun Tzu
>

From:	Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:46:07 -0700

Message no. 17 >> Since armor does not apply and the spirit gets no combat
>> pool, it seems
>> like this is by far the most efficient means to damage a spirit.
>>
> re-read it, Spirits DO get combat pool .. and Karmal pool and Astral
>Combat Move ....

P. 188, top right column, second paragraph:

"The character uses Willpower to make a melee attack against the spirit
(Combat Pool dice may not be used) ... the spirit may use only its Force to
reduce the damage; the spirit may not use Combat Pool and armor does not
proetect against such attacks."

Again, it is much more efficient for a mundane to use Will with Charisma M
damage, which at least has a chance of doing something.

>> Side issue: Why does Immunity to ... work differently from
>> Hardened Armor?
>> (Immunity can bounce attacks equal to its rating, Hardened
>> Armor bounces
>> attacks less than its rating.)

Er ... should have said, why does Immunity to ... and Hardened Armor work
differently than Barriers?

(Because the Barrier rules are broken?)

--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu

From:	Steve Menard <SMenard@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:49:51 -0400

Message no. 18 > -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Getchell [mailto:acgetchell@*******.EDU]
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 1998 1:46 PM
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Errata
>
>
> >> Since armor does not apply and the spirit gets no combat
> >> pool, it seems
> >> like this is by far the most efficient means to damage a spirit.
> >>
> > re-read it, Spirits DO get combat pool .. and Karmal
> pool and Astral
> >Combat Move ....
>
>
> P. 188, top right column, second paragraph:
>
> "The character uses Willpower to make a melee attack against
> the spirit
> (Combat Pool dice may not be used) ... the spirit may use
> only its Force to
> reduce the damage; the spirit may not use Combat Pool and
> armor does not
> proetect against such attacks."
>
OK. This then means that spirits may only use Combat Pool to resist
ranged attack, to which they are supposed to be virtually immune ....

> Again, it is much more efficient for a mundane to use Will
> with Charisma M
> damage, which at least has a chance of doing something.
>
Always was, although it used to be the weapon did damage as normal.
We alwys ruled it that technological effect were ignored, so a dikoted sword
did damage as normal and a wmonowhip was as efficient as a ball of twine!

> >> Side issue: Why does Immunity to ... work differently from
> >> Hardened Armor?
> >> (Immunity can bounce attacks equal to its rating, Hardened
> >> Armor bounces
> >> attacks less than its rating.)
>
> Er ... should have said, why does Immunity to ... and
> Hardened Armor work
> differently than Barriers?
>
> (Because the Barrier rules are broken?)
>
I think they are due to be revised on CC ...

> --Adam
>
> acgetchell@*******.edu
> "Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent."
> --Sun Tzu
>

From:	Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:30:35 EST

Message no. 19 > On p. 188, characters can wield weapons while engaging Spirits in a contest
> of wills. It says "(the weapon is only a symbol of the fighter's will, it
> has no actual effect on the spirit in this type of combat). However, the
> weapon's Reach bonus does apply".
>
> Why? (Be sure and grab a broom if you need to fend off that Elemental!)
>
> Since armor does not apply and the spirit gets no combat pool, it seems
> like this is by far the most efficient means to damage a spirit.

Yeah, except that you do (Charisma)M Stun damage, which leaves the
munchies (who needs Charisma?) hurting. Not covered is the speed of
recovery from Stun Damage....

-=SwiftOne=-
...unless I missed it

From:	Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:22:43 -0400

Message no. 20 Steve Menard wrote:
>
> OK. This then means that spirits may only use Combat Pool to resist
> ranged attack, to which they are supposed to be virtually immune ....

No; they can also use Combat Pool to resist melee attacks when the
attacker *doesn't* use Willpower. That "Use the Force, Luke" stuff
against spirits is optional in SR3, but a very good idea since it bypasses
the spirit's otherwise impressive defenses.

They're no longer "virtually immune" to ranged attacks now, either; they
just get nasty armor equal to twice their Force. Which means *powerful*
spirits are nigh invulnerable, but your standard Force 2 watcher spirit is
going down in one or two shots.

Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net

From:	Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:41:36 +0000

Message no. 21 Adam Getchell wrote:

> >> Since armor does not apply and the spirit gets no combat
> >> pool, it seems
> >> like this is by far the most efficient means to damage a spirit.
> >>
> > re-read it, Spirits DO get combat pool .. and Karmal pool and Astral
> >Combat Move ....
>
> P. 188, top right column, second paragraph:
>
> "The character uses Willpower to make a melee attack against the spirit
> (Combat Pool dice may not be used) ... the spirit may use only its Force to
> reduce the damage; the spirit may not use Combat Pool and armor does not
> proetect against such attacks."
>
> Again, it is much more efficient for a mundane to use Will with Charisma M
> damage, which at least has a chance of doing something.

It really will depend on your Willpower and Charisma attributes. A maxed out
troll is going to have a hell of a time with a force 4 earth elemental, let
alone anything higher. And that's maxed out.

> >> Side issue: Why does Immunity to ... work differently from
> >> Hardened Armor?
> >> (Immunity can bounce attacks equal to its rating, Hardened
> >> Armor bounces
> >> attacks less than its rating.)
>
> Er ... should have said, why does Immunity to ... and Hardened Armor work
> differently than Barriers?
>
> (Because the Barrier rules are broken?)

Probably. :)

Caric

From:	Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:16:55 -0700

Message no. 22 >It really will depend on your Willpower and Charisma attributes. A maxed out
>troll is going to have a hell of a time with a force 4 earth elemental, let
>alone anything higher. And that's maxed out.

9 Willpower and 6 Charisma? Not to mention the Karma Pool he'll have by
then, he should stand up against a Force 9 spirit with even odds (except
they won't be, when you add in Karma). Lower force spirits would be easy ...

But no, if you've got low Willpower and Charisma you've got a problem.
However, your chances (slim) are better than if you were to use a mundane
weapon (none).

>Caric

--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu

From:	David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:27:13 -0400

Message no. 23 On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Steve Eley wrote:

->Steve Menard wrote:
->
->They're no longer "virtually immune" to ranged attacks now, either; they
->just get nasty armor equal to twice their Force. Which means *powerful*
->spirits are nigh invulnerable, but your standard Force 2 watcher spirit is
->going down in one or two shots.

Are watcher spirits covered in BBB3/BABY or will they be in MiTS?
If they are in BBB3/BABY, are you implying that they are now able to take
physical form (which was not possible in the Grimoire, and I never read
Awakenings)?

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?

From:	Thomas Charron <thomascharron@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:35:37 PDT

Message no. 24 >From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
>Subject: Re: Errata
> Are watcher spirits covered in BBB3/BABY or will they be in
MiTS?
>If they are in BBB3/BABY, are you implying that they are now able to
take
>physical form (which was not possible in the Grimoire, and I never read
>Awakenings)?

Ok, guys, help the poor old newbie on the list.. Is there a list of
the common acronyms for books used here? What is BBB?

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From:	David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:48:55 -0400

Message no. 25 On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Thomas Charron wrote:

-> Ok, guys, help the poor old newbie on the list.. Is there a list of
->the common acronyms for books used here? What is BBB?

Ok, breif FAQ:
BBB3: Big Black Book 3rd Edition (Main Book)
MiTS: Magic in the Shadows (3rd edition Grimoire/Awakenings/etc.)
CC: Cannon Companion - tenative name (3rd Edition
Shadowtech/cybertech/etc.)
uhm.... I forget the others, someone pipe up, please.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?

From:	Thomas Charron <thomascharron@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:48:22 PDT

Message no. 26 >From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
>Subject: Re: Errata
> Ok, breif FAQ:
>BBB3: Big Black Book 3rd Edition (Main Book)
>MiTS: Magic in the Shadows (3rd edition Grimoire/Awakenings/etc.)
>CC: Cannon Companion - tenative name (3rd Edition
>Shadowtech/cybertech/etc.)
>uhm.... I forget the others, someone pipe up, please.

Ahh.. Sorry, I'd NEVER heard it refered to as BBB before.. ;-P So,
is there any dates on these variouse books? I'm going to have to
restock my shelves....

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From:	Kama <kama@*******.NET>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:56:25 -0400

Message no. 27 On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Thomas Charron wrote:

> >From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
> >Subject: Re: Errata
> > Ok, breif FAQ:
> >BBB3: Big Black Book 3rd Edition (Main Book)
> >MiTS: Magic in the Shadows (3rd edition Grimoire/Awakenings/etc.)
> >CC: Cannon Companion - tenative name (3rd Edition
> >Shadowtech/cybertech/etc.)
> >uhm.... I forget the others, someone pipe up, please.
>
> Ahh.. Sorry, I'd NEVER heard it refered to as BBB before.. ;-P So,
> is there any dates on these variouse books? I'm going to have to
> restock my shelves....
>
>

You are not really behind. BBB3 (the hardback version is known as a BABY)
has only been out a couple of weeks. MITS is scheduled for release in
January and CC after that. For a complete list, try refering to list post
from earlier today - I don't remember the subject header and have deleted
the messages, but some people have been debating what acronyms would be
clearest when refering to these books and that discussion contains a good
list of what has been published.

- Kama

From:	Steve Menard <SMenard@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:53:05 -0400

Message no. 28 > -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Charron [mailto:thomascharron@*******.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 1998 3:48 PM
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Errata
>
>
> >From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
> >Subject: Re: Errata
> > Ok, breif FAQ:
> >BBB3: Big Black Book 3rd Edition (Main Book)
> >MiTS: Magic in the Shadows (3rd edition Grimoire/Awakenings/etc.)
> >CC: Cannon Companion - tenative name (3rd Edition
> >Shadowtech/cybertech/etc.)
Sorry, but Cannon Companion is more like Street Sam Catalog and Fof.
The Shadow/Cybertech equivalent will man man and Machine (I think).

From:	Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:01:53 -0400

Message no. 29 David Foster wrote:
>
> Ok, breif FAQ:
> BBB3: Big Black Book 3rd Edition (Main Book)

The original BBB for the Second Edition (SRII) I could understand, and
BABY (Big All-Black Yearbook) for the collector's edition makes sense too,
but is there any reason to use a clever acronym for the standard Third
Edition rulebook that's longer than SR3?

Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net

From:	Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:01:02 -0500

Message no. 30 ----------
> From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>

> David Foster wrote:
> >
> > Ok, breif FAQ:
> > BBB3: Big Black Book 3rd Edition (Main Book)
>
> The original BBB for the Second Edition (SRII) I could understand, and
> BABY (Big All-Black Yearbook) for the collector's edition makes sense
too,
> but is there any reason to use a clever acronym for the standard Third
> Edition rulebook that's longer than SR3?

Tradition. That's it, tradition.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
"The Kelti said of themselves that they did not lie, but they sometimes
took a very long way around in getting to the truth, with frequent stops
at interesting spots along the way."
-Morgan Llywelyn "The Horse Goddess"

From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:18:32 -0600

Message no. 31 Thomas Charron wrote:
/
/ Ok, guys, help the poor old newbie on the list.. Is there a list of
/ the common acronyms for books used here? What is BBB?

You haven't read the FAQ yet have you :)

Follow the URL in my .sig. The answers to all of life's questions are
in the ShadowRN FAQ.

Have fun,
Play nice,
-David, your friendly neighborhood GridSec Assistant :)
--
dbuehrer@******.carl.org, ShadowRN GridSec: Nice Guy Division
The ShadowRN FAQ: http://coastnet.com/~dvixen/srnintro.html
Other GridSec members: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
Dvixen <dvixen@********.com>
Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.net>
List Administrator: Adam Jury <fro@***.ab.ca>

From:	Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:22:42 +0000

Message no. 32 Adam Getchell wrote:

> >It really will depend on your Willpower and Charisma attributes. A maxed out
> >troll is going to have a hell of a time with a force 4 earth elemental, let
> >alone anything higher. And that's maxed out.
>
> 9 Willpower and 6 Charisma? Not to mention the Karma Pool he'll have by
> then, he should stand up against a Force 9 spirit with even odds (except
> they won't be, when you add in Karma). Lower force spirits would be easy ...

If you are going to be going all out anyway you have much bigger problems then
that. A troll with a strength of 25 (which is entirely possible) could do just
as well with more dice to attack with if you want to just crunch numbers.

> But no, if you've got low Willpower and Charisma you've got a problem.
> However, your chances (slim) are better than if you were to use a mundane
> weapon (none).

In many cases you are probably correct, but there is going to be just as many
cases where the character has such a high combat skill and combat pool, they will
be better off using their normal skill. I'm not saying that many people aren't
going to be better off using willpower and charisma, but I just can't see it
being nearly as big a problem as you seem to think it will be.

Caric

From:	Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:41:40 -0700

Message no. 33 >In many cases you are probably correct, but there is going to be just as many
>cases where the character has such a high combat skill and combat pool,
>they will
>be better off using their normal skill. I'm not saying that many people
>aren't
>going to be better off using willpower and charisma, but I just can't see it
>being nearly as big a problem as you seem to think it will be.

It is a problem because two mundanes can effectively kill a spirit. If you
read the rules closely, you will note that they can benefit from Reach on
weapons. Therefore, two trolls with Reach of 3 can roll their willpower
dice with a Target number of ( -1 for friends) 3. Meanwhile, the spirit
counterattacks with its Force at a Target of (+1 for Friends, +3 for Reach)
8. The problem is more severe with more numbers.

Most of my players Wills hover around 5 or 6 (in fear of Spelltosser). The
point is not that they have low charisma (maybe 2 or 3), it is number of
successes. With a single net success, the spirit must generate 4 successes
to fully resist damage, and can only get them from Force, not Body.

>Caric

--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu

From:	Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:36:04 EST

Message no. 34 > Follow the URL in my .sig. The answers to all of life's questions are
> in the ShadowRN FAQ.

Hmm.
(Opens FAQ in Netscape)
(Does a CTRL-F, searches for "42")
(Netscape: Search String not Found!)

Sorry man, nice try.

-=SwiftOne=-
(sings)how many roads must a man....

From:	Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:45:31 EDT

Message no. 35 In a message dated 8/27/98 12:40:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US writes:

> BBB3: Big Black Book 3rd Edition (Main Book)
I still like BBB3.0 for BABY, BBB3.1 for the $25 version, BBB3.2 for the $30
version.
That way we know what errors or errata is included.

From:	Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:55:01 -0500

Message no. 36 >If you are going to be going all out anyway you have much bigger
>problems then that. A troll with a strength of 25 (which is
>entirely possible) could do just as well with more dice to attack
>with if you want to just crunch numbers.

This might sound hopelessly cynical, but it's been that kind of week for me,
so what the hell: How the blazes do you get *anything*, even a troll, with
a 25 Strength? Maybe I'm just missing something somewhere...wouldn't be the
first time, nor would it be the last.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:01:36 -0400

Message no. 37 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 04:01 PM 8/27/98 -0400, Steve wrote:
>> Ok, breif FAQ:
>> BBB3: Big Black Book 3rd Edition (Main Book)
>
>The original BBB for the Second Edition (SRII) I could understand,
and
>BABY (Big All-Black Yearbook) for the collector's edition makes sense
too,
>but is there any reason to use a clever acronym for the standard
Third
>Edition rulebook that's longer than SR3?

Because using the term SR3 to refer to the BBB3 is only precise at
least until the "intended primarily for third edition" sourcebooks
(not quoting anyone in here, just thought the phrase looked better in
quotes) come out, at which time SR3 more properly refers to the
colection of rules put forth in the Big Black Book (3rd ed.) and the
subsequent sourcebooks.

Of course, I'm as guilty as anyone of calling it SR3, at the moment.

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Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

From:	Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:48:03 -0500

Message no. 38 On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:35:38 -0700 Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
writes:
>Just some more things I've run down:
>
>Movement modifiers: On page 108, it says Walking characters apply +1 to
all
>Success Tests, and Running characters take +4. On p. 112 on the Ranged
>Combat Modifiers Table, Running and Walking are specifically listed as
>modifiers. On p. 123 for Melee Modifiers, it is not listed.
>
>Do characters garner movement modifiers for Melee? Why? (In many cases,
you
>will be executing melee attacks while moving, such as doing Irimi Nage
or
>Double Roundhouse.)

Walking (more running, actually) are factored into normal melee combat
sequences. Firing while running for the door is rather different than
Meleeing while running for the door. (The difference being that one of
the above can be realistically/practically done. [outside of Anime, that
is ;])

>On p. 188, characters can wield weapons while engaging Spirits in a
contest
>of wills. It says "(the weapon is only a symbol of the fighter's will,
it
>has no actual effect on the spirit in this type of combat). However, the
>weapon's Reach bonus does apply".
>
>Why? (Be sure and grab a broom if you need to fend off that Elemental!)

Perhaps the Will is symbolicly extended or somesuch. I agree, however,
that it shouldn't apply.

<SNIP>
>On p. 176 it discusses what happens to astral forms suffering Deadly
stun
>damage (they are disrupted). What happens to astral forms suffering
Deadly
>physical damage? Especially given that it is the prevalent damage type
(you
>must explicitly specify stun damage to do only stun damage).

I think the spirit is kind of ... disrupted. Either that or killed. I
would say killed.

<SNIP>
>Is there a maximum fire rate for weapons? If so, why? If not, why do
Sentry
>Guns (p. 236) have one?

I'd say 10 but I can't find anything to prove it. I was hoping they
included a mini-gun that would say "it fires 15 instead of the usual 10"
but the closest I could get was pg 307, vehicle weapons, water cannon
entry: "... the water cannon always fires in autofire mode (10 shots per
action) ..." This is not proof, however, it's pretty close.

>Just wait until my next Shadowrun game this evening: I'm sure more
errata
>will crop up.
>--Adam
<SNIP Sig>

have fun. :)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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From:	Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:55:47 -0700

Message no. 39 > From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>

> >If you are going to be going all out anyway you have much bigger
> >problems then that. A troll with a strength of 25 (which is
> >entirely possible) could do just as well with more dice to attack
> >with if you want to just crunch numbers.
>
> This might sound hopelessly cynical, but it's been that kind of week for
me,
> so what the hell: How the blazes do you get *anything*, even a troll,
with
> a 25 Strength? Maybe I'm just missing something somewhere...wouldn't be
the
> first time, nor would it be the last.

It would require some insane munchkinous activity, but if you have a
natural strength of 15 (1.5 x racial maximum) it's just some cyber and
bioware away...mostly muscle augmentation/replacement etc...

Caric

From:	Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:33:35 -0500

Message no. 40 >> This might sound hopelessly cynical, but it's been that kind of
>> week for me, so what the hell: How the blazes do you get *anything*,
>> even a troll, with a 25 Strength?
>
>It would require some insane munchkinous activity, but if you have a
>natural strength of 15 (1.5 x racial maximum) it's just some cyber and
>bioware away...mostly muscle augmentation/replacement etc...

You know, maybe that's why I don't see some of my characters, who always
seemed pretty tough to me, as all that great compared to some of the
descriptions of characters on this list. I've always read "maximum" to mean
"maximum." All the GMs I ever played with enforced that, and didn't allow
natural stats past racial maximums; it made sense to me, so this was an
attitude I adopted when I started running things. And I keep it up with my
NPCs. So maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

In any event: EEEEEEEEKKKKK!!! What a frightening thought all this is....
<g>

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:34:35 -0700

Message no. 41 > From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>

> >> This might sound hopelessly cynical, but it's been that kind of
> >> week for me, so what the hell: How the blazes do you get *anything*,
> >> even a troll, with a 25 Strength?
> >
> >It would require some insane munchkinous activity, but if you have a
> >natural strength of 15 (1.5 x racial maximum) it's just some cyber and
> >bioware away...mostly muscle augmentation/replacement etc...
>
> You know, maybe that's why I don't see some of my characters, who always
> seemed pretty tough to me, as all that great compared to some of the
> descriptions of characters on this list. I've always read "maximum" to
mean
> "maximum." All the GMs I ever played with enforced that, and didn't
allow
> natural stats past racial maximums; it made sense to me, so this was an
> attitude I adopted when I started running things. And I keep it up with
my
> NPCs. So maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

Glad to hear that. We have never had anything close to that in our
campaigns either, I was just using it to illustrate a point. We actually
introduced a house rule that whatever your starting attribute value was
considered your racial maximum, and the most you could ever raise it was to
1.5 times. Round up (aren't we nice guys?:) Anyway it worked out well,
and made it so the people who actually spent the priority to get good
attributes had an advantage in the long run instead of everyone's atts
eventually looking the same.

> In any event: EEEEEEEEKKKKK!!! What a frightening thought all this
is....
> <g>

Big rule to remember in our game is if the player starts to use it, the GM
will too. EEEEEEEKKKK is right, :)

caric

From:	K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Fri, 28 Aug 1998 01:41:25 EDT

Message no. 42 In a message dated 8/28/1998 12:07:03 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
caric@********.COM writes:

<snipped comment on the "troll with a 25 strength">

> > This might sound hopelessly cynical, but it's been that kind of week for
> me,
> > so what the hell: How the blazes do you get *anything*, even a troll,
> with
> > a 25 Strength? Maybe I'm just missing something somewhere...wouldn't be
> the
> > first time, nor would it be the last.
>
> It would require some insane munchkinous activity, but if you have a
> natural strength of 15 (1.5 x racial maximum) it's just some cyber and
> bioware away...mostly muscle augmentation/replacement etc...
>
I am going to hope it was merely a comment or joke of some kind. I can't
figure out how to get that high of an attribute. The most I can reach, with
hard work, is a 22 and that involves magic and cyber (remembering that
Replacement Muscles and Augmented Muscles are not cumulative). Let me think
here...

15
+2 for Adrenaline Pump
+4 for Muscle -something-
+1 for Superthyroid

+4 for Magic

Ah, okay, got it now. I guess it's not impossible, just nightmarish...

-K

From:	Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:36:23 -0500

Message no. 43 On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:55:01 -0500 Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET> writes:
>>If you are going to be going all out anyway you have much bigger
>>problems then that. A troll with a strength of 25 (which is
>>entirely possible) could do just as well with more dice to attack
>>with if you want to just crunch numbers.

>This might sound hopelessly cynical, but it's been that kind of week for
me,
>so what the hell: How the blazes do you get *anything*, even a troll,
with
>a 25 Strength? Maybe I'm just missing something somewhere...wouldn't be
the
>first time, nor would it be the last.
>
>---
>(>) Texas 2-Step
<SNIP Sig>

Well, an alpha grade troll cyberlimb could have up to 19 points of
strength enhancement yielding a 27 strength at an essence cost of 5.92
essence!

A troll with maxed out strength (10) could then tack on muscle
replacement or augmentation for a total strength of 14 (add in Super
Thyroid Gland, and an Adrenal Pump level 2 and the total is 17), or if
said troll was a physad, s/he could get 6 points of improved strength for
a total of 16 (if using the attribute boost ability, the troll can get up
to a 20 strength for 2.5 power points. If the GM allows any muscle aug,
super thyroid glands, adrenal pumps to be added AFTER the boost is
calculated [I wouldn't] the char could achieve a 24 strength [assuming
cultured muscle aug, leaving the char with enough magic to afford the
attrib boost.].).

That's all I can think of ...

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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From:	Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:57:19 -0500

Message no. 44 On Fri, 28 Aug 1998 01:41:25 EDT K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
writes:
>In a message dated 8/28/1998 12:07:03 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>caric@********.COM writes:

><snipped comment on the "troll with a 25 strength">

>> >This might sound hopelessly cynical, but it's been that kind of week
for
>> >me,
>> >so what the hell: How the blazes do you get *anything*, even a
troll, with
>> >a 25 Strength? Maybe I'm just missing something somewhere...wouldn't
be
>> >the
>> > first time, nor would it be the last.

>>It would require some insane munchkinous activity, but if you have a
>>natural strength of 15 (1.5 x racial maximum) it's just some cyber and
>>bioware away...mostly muscle augmentation/replacement etc...

>I am going to hope it was merely a comment or joke of some kind. I
can't
>figure out how to get that high of an attribute. The most I can reach,
with
>hard work, is a 22 and that involves magic and cyber (remembering that
>Replacement Muscles and Augmented Muscles are not cumulative). Let me
think
>here...
>
>15
>+2 for Adrenaline Pump
>+4 for Muscle -something-
>+1 for Superthyroid
>
>+4 for Magic
>
>Ah, okay, got it now. I guess it's not impossible, just
>nightmarish...
>
>-K

Wait, if a troll with strength 8 picks up a cyberarm with a strength of
27 (5.92 essence cost for one arm!), and a mage casts Increase Cybered
Strength +4 on said troll. 1) What is the mage's T#? 8? 27? 2) What is
the troll's new strength? 12/27 or 12/31?

*Looks at what he just typed and shuders at the thought of a troll with a
cyberarm with a strength of 31*

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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From:	David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:51:42 -0400

Message no. 45 On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Steve Menard wrote:

->> -----Original Message-----
->> >BBB3: Big Black Book 3rd Edition (Main Book)
->> >MiTS: Magic in the Shadows (3rd edition Grimoire/Awakenings/etc.)
->> >CC: Cannon Companion - tenative name (3rd Edition
->> >Shadowtech/cybertech/etc.)
-> Sorry, but Cannon Companion is more like Street Sam Catalog and Fof.
-> The Shadow/Cybertech equivalent will man man and Machine (I think).

I stand corrected. Thanks, musta been real tired yesterday
afternoon.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?

From:	David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:48:40 -0400

Message no. 46 On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Patrick Goodman wrote:

->>If you are going to be going all out anyway you have much bigger
->>problems then that. A troll with a strength of 25 (which is
->>entirely possible) could do just as well with more dice to attack
->>with if you want to just crunch numbers.
->
->This might sound hopelessly cynical, but it's been that kind of week for me,
->so what the hell: How the blazes do you get *anything*, even a troll, with
->a 25 Strength? Maybe I'm just missing something somewhere...wouldn't be the
->first time, nor would it be the last.

Just with what I can think of from feeble memory:
Troll (Str 10) *1.5 (racial max) 15
Cybernetic Muscle Replacement (6) 21
Adrenal Pump (2) 25

I may have something off but it's possible, if not recommended, to
have a strength that high.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?

From:	David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:18:23 -0400

Message no. 47 On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Alfredo B Alves wrote:
<snip more>
-><SNIP>
->>On p. 176 it discusses what happens to astral forms suffering Deadly
->stun
->>damage (they are disrupted). What happens to astral forms suffering
->Deadly
->>physical damage? Especially given that it is the prevalent damage type
->(you
->>must explicitly specify stun damage to do only stun damage).
->
->I think the spirit is kind of ... disrupted. Either that or killed. I
->would say killed.

Can't 'kill' a spirit like that since it's not 'alive' in the
first place. I'd say it banishes the spirit to their home metaplane for a
period not less than (Force) days. I THINK this is in the Grimoire (no
3rd edition, so 2nd edition still rules in my campaign).

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?

From:	Thomas Charron <thomascharron@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:03:58 PDT

Message no. 48 >From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
>Subject: Re: Errata
>> BBB3: Big Black Book 3rd Edition (Main Book)
>I still like BBB3.0 for BABY, BBB3.1 for the $25 version, BBB3.2 for
the $30
>version.
>That way we know what errors or errata is included.

What exactly is the difference between the 25$ and 30$ versions?
Locally I was only able to find the 30$ softcover.. (I asked, just for
giggles if they had a hardcover, and, well, the did giggle..)

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From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:22:03 -0600

Message no. 49 Michael vanHulst wrote:
/
/ In a message dated 8/27/98 12:40:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
/ fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US writes:
/
/ > BBB3: Big Black Book 3rd Edition (Main Book)
/ I still like BBB3.0 for BABY, BBB3.1 for the $25 version, BBB3.2 for the $30
/ version.
/ That way we know what errors or errata is included.

For some reason I'm reminded of the song with the line, "BBC1, BBC2,
BBC3..."

Any lyricists want to take that song on and convert it to the history
of the BBB?

:)

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm

From:	Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Errata
Date:	Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:23:25 -0400

Message no. 50 Alfredo B Alves wrote:
>
> Well, an alpha grade troll cyberlimb could have up to 19 points of
> strength enhancement yielding a 27 strength at an essence cost of 5.92
> essence!

In one limb? Well, okay, but other than making you the most feared
armwrestler in history, how much use is that?

TWINK: "I smash the door down with my Mighty Fist of Death!"

(*roll, roll*)

GM: "Great. Your MFD puts a very significant dent in that puny
hardened-steel door, and you think with a few more punches you'll probably
make it through. Unfortunately, you *didn't* break through, and that
kinetic energy has to go somewhere, i.e. your body. Roll 19M Stun, then
roll for Knockdown."

TWINK: "But... But... I CAN'T be knocked down! I'm a troll!"

GM: "Oh. Right. Guess you just fly backwards through the air, then.
Want to roll Aerodynamics?"

Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net

Message no. 51 >From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
>Subject: Re: Errata
>Glad to hear that. We have never had anything close to that in our
>campaigns either, I was just using it to illustrate a point. We
actually
>introduced a house rule that whatever your starting attribute value was
>considered your racial maximum, and the most you could ever raise it
was to
>1.5 times. Round up (aren't we nice guys?:) Anyway it worked out
well,
>and made it so the people who actually spent the priority to get good
>attributes had an advantage in the long run instead of everyone's atts
>eventually looking the same.

I was just thinking about this, and here's a GREAT TWIST to allow the
munchies their day, but then, well, get them thier due.. Now, let's say
you DO have a char with 25 STR.. Ok, great.. So, as he's running down
the alley, and ther's a big truck in his way, go ahead and LET him use
his 25 strength to pick it up and throw it.. Oh, and remind him when
he's in the hospital with 2 arms literally BROKEN off, and perhaps some
shattered limbs, that raw strength is limited by what the skeleton
underneath can support. I can wrap 20 million rubber bands around a
tooth pick, and they may be able to shoot the space shuttle to the moon
with their combined strength, but I'll be damned if the toothpick is
gonna support their raw strength.. ;-P

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Message no. 52 On Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:38:53 -0400 Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
writes:

>Troll Racial Maximum = 10
>Exceptional atributie edge from Companion +1
>X 1.5 from Sr3 = 16 (Costs 165 Karma)
>Muscle Augmentation/Replacement +4 = 20
>Superthryoid Gland +1 = 21
>Adrenal Pump 2 +2 = 23
>
>That's the max I can find, of course you could give him Dual Dikoated
>Cyberspurs for a 34S meele Attack with 1 point of reach. Now That's
Sick.

Please, can we stop now? I'm already going to have nightmares. But
wouldn't all this extra mass make it hard for him to move?

-Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
***********************************
"I could dead-lift a tank! If I can get off the floor..."

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Message no. 53 On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Matt T Ork wrote:

->On Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:38:53 -0400 Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
->writes:
->
->>Troll Racial Maximum = 10
->>Exceptional atributie edge from Companion +1
->>X 1.5 from Sr3 = 16 (Costs 165 Karma)
->>Muscle Augmentation/Replacement +4 = 20
->>Superthryoid Gland +1 = 21
->>Adrenal Pump 2 +2 = 23
->>
->>That's the max I can find, of course you could give him Dual Dikoated
->>Cyberspurs for a 34S meele Attack with 1 point of reach. Now That's
->Sick.
->
->Please, can we stop now? I'm already going to have nightmares. But
->wouldn't all this extra mass make it hard for him to move?

Doesn't the Muscle Augmentation/Replacement come with structural
improvements? And, as far as ACTUAL weight is concerned, the amount of
weight added would be negligible (how much can an adrenal pump weigh?).
Also, in the case of the pump, the strength effects are temporary. Funny
thing is, Quickness would also be raised by all this.... if the Troll has
a strength of 23... what could his quickness be?
Pleasant nightmares....

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?

Message no. 54 On Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:18:23 -0400 David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
writes:
>On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Alfredo B Alves wrote:
><snip more>
<SNIP>
> Can't 'kill' a spirit like that since it's not 'alive' in the
>first place. I'd say it banishes the spirit to their home metaplane for
a
>period not less than (Force) days. I THINK this is in the Grimoire (no
>3rd edition, so 2nd edition still rules in my campaign).
>
>Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
<SNIP Sig>

Whether a spirit is alive is up for debate. However interesting such a
discussion may be, it is probably better not to go there. :)

Let's reword what I originally said then. Stun damage disrupts the
spirit banishing it for 1 lunar cycle (28 days). Physical damage severes
the bond between the magician and the spirit.

Thus, the difference between stun and physical damage is that after
deadly stun damage, the magician still retains any remaining services
s/he had from the spirit (but has to wait almost a month to use them)
while with deadly physical damage, the magician looses the spirit.

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 55 ----------
> From: Matt T Ork <steelclaw@****.COM>
> >That's the max I can find, of course you could give him Dual Dikoated
> >Cyberspurs for a 34S meele Attack with 1 point of reach. Now That's
> Sick.
>
> Please, can we stop now? I'm already going to have nightmares. But
> wouldn't all this extra mass make it hard for him to move?

Its like watching a Rifts list, isn't it, Matt? I give them 20 posts
before they mention Undead Slayers...

Message no. 56 On Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:54:58 -0500 Nexx <nexx@********.NET> writes:
>----------
>> From: Matt T Ork <steelclaw@****.COM>
>> >That's the max I can find, of course you could give him Dual Dikoated
>> >Cyberspurs for a 34S meele Attack with 1 point of reach. Now That's
Sick.

Actually, wouldn't work because the troll would have different strength
ratings in each arm.

>> Please, can we stop now? I'm already going to have nightmares. But
>> wouldn't all this extra mass make it hard for him to move?

Call me sadistic for mentioning this but if you count Deltagrade
cyberarms and cybertorso and maximum result on the cyber implantation
roll (total of -60% Essence cost of cyberware.), then add in a pair of
Dikoted spurs, you'll have a troll with 68 strength in each arm (the
torso halves the essence cost for enhancements.) and an melee attack of
102S with +1 reach. Can you say muchkin? ... I thought you could ... :)

>Its like watching a Rifts list, isn't it, Matt? I give them 20 posts
>before they mention Undead Slayers...

Do you mean 20 posts from when YOU mentioned them? :P

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 57 >It would require some insane munchkinous activity, but if you have a
>natural strength of 15 (1.5 x racial maximum) it's just some cyber and
>bioware away...mostly muscle augmentation/replacement etc...

It would also require 195 karma points. "Wouldn't be prudent". Of
course, you did use the "M" word, which supposedly removes all need any form
of judgement or intelligence.

Physics potentially get an edge here. They can spend 20 karma, tops, to
raise any physical attribute. I'm not sure what OODNA was getting at in his
post (sorry, incomplete sentences and run-on paragraphs don't convey much
info), but Adepts get a GREAT deal with this power; as I read it, they can
raise a physical attribute to 1.5 times normal adjusted limits for .5 magic,
and past that for 1 magic.
The Human Adept archetype's powers don't seem to support this, but even if
you figure the "racial maximum" is the "adjusted racial limit" (which
p 245 of
SR3 clearly indicates it is NOT, to me), they still get a break on almost all
physical attribute purchases (20 karma to raise an attribute Vs new value x3).
Hell, for most troll adepts, it is cheaper to raise body or strength with this
power, REGARDLESS of rating! There is the "max power level = magic" thing,
but still...

Mongoose

Message no. 58 >Just some more things I've run down:

Funny, same topics came up I when I question Rob on errata. Maybe he
will comment (or won't have to now). [this was in my DRAFT folder for a
while; he did comment, but I went a bit further]

>
>Movement modifiers: On page 108, it says Walking characters apply +1 to all
>Success Tests, and Running characters take +4. On p. 112 on the Ranged
>Combat Modifiers Table, Running and Walking are specifically listed as
>modifiers. On p. 123 for Melee Modifiers, it is not listed.
>

Nor is it listed as applying to dodging (a success test, but maybe counted as
a
resistance test, and hence not effected) or magic use.

>Do characters garner movement modifiers for Melee? Why? (In many cases, you
>will be executing melee attacks while moving, such as doing Irimi Nage or
>Double Roundhouse.)

WE wouldn't apply it to melee (or to dodging or most athletics, like, um,
RUNNING) but would apply it to most magic use.

>On p. 188, characters can wield weapons while engaging Spirits in a contest
>of wills. It says "(the weapon is only a symbol of the fighter's will, it
>has no actual effect on the spirit in this type of combat). However, the
>weapon's Reach bonus does apply".
>
>Why? (Be sure and grab a broom if you need to fend off that Elemental!)

Ask Steve. It does make sense to me; its a contest of wills, sure, but
its purely physical (mundanes can do it, so it had BETTER be purely physical).
I think I can stare something down better if I'm holding a big stick... Kinda
like scaring of a wild animal; the stick won't always hurt it, but it makes
you look bigger. Think "intimidation" in place of "mystic combat".

>Since armor does not apply and the spirit gets no combat pool, it seems
>like this is by far the most efficient means to damage a spirit.

It still gets karma pool equal to conjuring successes, and can still use
noxious breath / flame aura / ITS reach. You also need a good willpower to
make it work, and a decent charisma to do damage. Of course, you DON'T need a
combat skill (but then' would you carry a weapon?) Yes, it is more effective;
otherwise, spirits would be nigh invulnerable to mundanes. It seems to me to
be a carry over from SR3.

>On p. 176 it discusses what happens to astral forms suffering Deadly stun
>damage (they are disrupted). What happens to astral forms suffering Deadly
>physical damage? Especially given that it is the prevalent damage type (you
>must explicitly specify stun damage to do only stun damage).

If you take deadly physical from ANY source, you need to make a magic loss
test. The rule says "stun" to penalize disruption without creating a double
whammy.

>If two opposing characters have Shields and +2 Reach each, what happens?

They both fight with a base TN of 4, as the shields are negated for both
and the reaches cancel.
Worse is somebody with a reach of 2, and a shield, against somebody with
no
reach; the guy either the shield gets reach superiority and no penalty, the
other gets the penalty for the shield. ICK.

I hadn't yet asked about the other topics; Rob??

Mongoose

Message no. 59 Nexx wrote:

> Its like watching a Rifts list, isn't it, Matt? I give them 20 posts
> before they mention Undead Slayers...

Characters who become free spirits trapped in their own bodies...

--Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>

"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm

Message no. 60 > Doesn't the Muscle Augmentation/Replacement come with structural
>improvements? And, as far as ACTUAL weight is concerned, the amount of
>weight added would be negligible (how much can an adrenal pump weigh?).
>Also, in the case of the pump, the strength effects are temporary. Funny
>thing is, Quickness would also be raised by all this.... if the Troll has
>a strength of 23... what could his quickness be?
> Pleasant nightmares....

Really high; the Bioware gives a +7. That's enough to cause potential
system biostress unless his natural quickness is 7. He is also getting a +7
or 8 to reaction, another biostress stat to worry about. So heed need LOTS of
high stats. Go with muscle replacement or juiced up cyberarms, and its a bit
easier.

Mongoose

Message no. 61 On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Jett wrote:

->Nexx wrote:
->
->> Its like watching a Rifts list, isn't it, Matt? I give them 20 posts
->> before they mention Undead Slayers...
->
->
->Characters who become free spirits trapped in their own bodies...
->
->--Jett

Ok, leave the Highlander Immortals out of it, Jett... although
your connections was a bit.... different. Didn't you say your 'spirit'
had built itself a new body that copied it's old one rather than inhabit
the old one?

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?

Message no. 62 > -----Original Message-----
> From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
> Behalf Of Steve Eley
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 1998 16:02
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Errata
>
>
> David Foster wrote:
> >
> > Ok, breif FAQ:
> > BBB3: Big Black Book 3rd Edition (Main Book)
>
> The original BBB for the Second Edition (SRII) I could understand, and
> BABY (Big All-Black Yearbook) for the collector's edition makes sense too,
> but is there any reason to use a clever acronym for the standard Third
> Edition rulebook that's longer than SR3?

I'm in favor of 3B myself

Ian Silvercat claims the above in the name of himself!
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security - Benjamin Franklin
That which does not exist has never been named - Mirumoto Nohito
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
Homepage : http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~jhurley1

Message no. 63 Can someone post or tell me where to get the SR3 Errata?

Geez, I remember being able to find the SR2 Errata on compuserve
with no problem.

-K-

Message no. 64 On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Adams, Kevin wrote:

> Can someone post or tell me where to get the SR3 Errata?
>
> Geez, I remember being able to find the SR2 Errata on compuserve
> with no problem.
>

I'm forwarding them to you privately.

- Kama

Message no. 65 >Can someone post or tell me where to get the SR3 Errata?
>
>Geez, I remember being able to find the SR2 Errata on compuserve
>with no problem.
>
>-K-

You can find it on my page under the Game Rules heading, all nicely done up
in HTML. =)

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )

Message no. 66 I just read the Errata for SR 3 provided by Arkham's Asylum and was a
bit confused on the Clothign and armor table. It said that the full
camo suit and the camo jacket were switched, but the stats given in
the Errata are different than what they are in Fields of Fire. Now I
know that FOF is an earlier thing, but most of the rules (even in
SR3) indicate that full suit anything (with the exceptions of
military/security grade armor) are usually smaller in protection
than say a lined coat. Is that changed?

Christopher M. Coulter

Message no. 67 At 11:03 PM 10/1/98 +0000, you wrote:
>I just read the Errata for SR 3 provided by Arkham's Asylum and was a
>bit confused on the Clothign and armor table. It said that the full
>camo suit and the camo jacket were switched, but the stats given in
>the Errata are different than what they are in Fields of Fire. Now I
>know that FOF is an earlier thing, but most of the rules (even in
>SR3) indicate that full suit anything (with the exceptions of
>military/security grade armor) are usually smaller in protection
>than say a lined coat. Is that changed?
>
>Christopher M. Coulter

No. The full suit listed in the Errata (and in the rulebook for that
matter) is unfortunate victim of dual-naming. The full suit listed is a
full body suit. Maybe that should be in the errata? =)

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )

Message no. 68 At 11:03 PM 10/1/98 +0000, you wrote:
>I just read the Errata for SR 3 provided by Arkham's Asylum and was a
>bit confused on the Clothign and armor table. It said that the full
>camo suit and the camo jacket were switched, but the stats given in
>the Errata are different than what they are in Fields of Fire. Now I
>know that FOF is an earlier thing, but most of the rules (even in
>SR3) indicate that full suit anything (with the exceptions of
>military/security grade armor) are usually smaller in protection
>than say a lined coat. Is that changed?
>
>Christopher M. Coulter

Damned mailing system. That previous message should have had another
couple of lines tacked onto the end of it... and should've read:

No. The full suit listed in the Errata (and in the rulebook for that
matter) is unfortunate victim of dual-naming. The full suit listed is a
full body suit. Maybe that should be in the errata? =)
As for the armour values, that's how they were given by Rob Boyle. They
seem weird I know, but if that's what they're supposed to be, well... what
can you do?

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )

Message no. 69 Can somebody please tell me where I can get the latest errata?
Actual url would be appreciated. Thanx

Message no. 70 >Can somebody please tell me where I can get the latest errata?
>Actual url would be appreciated. Thanx

Version 1.4 of the SR3 errata is on my site under the Game Rules heading.
I'm assuming it's the latest version since I haven't seen or heard
otherwise.

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )

Message no. 71 At 22:13 13.10.98 -0000, Ivan Cappiello wrote:
>Can somebody please tell me where I can get the latest errata?
>Actual url would be appreciated. Thanx

The errata are posted at
http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/mainpage.html
(Arkham´s Asylum)
and I think they are the latest version (1.4)

TillK ]B-]
#674 of 1000
------------------------------
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------------------------------

Message no. 72 I while ago they was much chat about the movment
rules. while looking over the new shadowrun home page
I come across this Errata about movemnt. I hope it
helps.

-----------
Page 108: Movement Rate
Add the word "maximum" before the words "Walking Rate"
and "Running Rate."

Replace the second paragraph with the following text.

Movement during a Combat Turn is divided evenly
between the turn's Initiative Passes. The maximum
distance a character can move is equal to the
character's maximum Movement Rate for the type of
movement being used in that turn divided by the total
number of Initiative Passes (rounding up) in that
Combat Turn. The result is the maximum number of
meters a character can move during each Initiative
Pass. If the character moves at all (even a single
meter), he is assumed to be moving at the rate he
declared and suffers the appropriate movement
modifiers to his actions. If the character does not
move, he must still reduce his maximum available
movement for the turn by the number of meters allowed
in each pass. Characters may continue to move during
passes in which they have no available actions, moving
their maximum distance for that pass after all other
characters have taken their actions.

Replace the example with the following text:

Twitch the elf samurai has a Quickness of 6. His
maximum Running Rate is 18 meters (6 x 3) and his
maximum Walking Rate is 6 meters. There are 3
Initiative Passes in the current Combat Turn, which
means that Twitch can run for 6 meters or walk for 2
meters during each Initiative Pass. Because Twitch is
standing still and firing his gun for the first pass,
the movement mode doesn't matter. But his target
decides to run, so on Twitch's Combat Phase of the
second Initiative Pass, he declares he will run. He
moves 6 meters for this pass, and if he continues to
run through the next pass he will run 6 more (for a
total of 12 for the entire Combat Turn). Because
Twitch did not move in the first pass, he "loses"
those 6 meters.

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Message no. 73 Hi list!

I have a the Third edition book printed by Fasa, where can i find a errata
for that book?

TIA
/Honken

Message no. 74 On 3-Apr-04, at 2:12 PM, Fredrik Holmqvist wrote:

> Hi list!
>
> I have a the Third edition book printed by Fasa, where can i find a
> errata for that book?

http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/resources/#errata

Best,
Adam

--
Adam Jury
http://www.shadowrunrpg.com

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