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Message no. 1
From: Ken Hart satyr9@********.com
Subject: Essence and magical groups
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:39:26 -0800
I've got an odd question that I'd like to toss out for feedback. In the SR reality, if an
existing member of a magical group were to get one piece of bioware, how might the other
members of the group react to this decision?

In the Virtual Seattle campaign (that's the continuing RPGA campaign that goes on at
conventions), I have a Shark shaman who has enough Karma saved up to go from Initiate
Grade 0 to Grade 1. He also has enough nuyen to get the Enhanced Articulation bioware. The
way I'm handling this guy is that he's very feisty and battle-oriented (but not psychotic
by any definition), so he might want the extra little boost from the bioware even if it
will knock his Essence down by 0.6. He would rationalize that it would make him a better
fighter, and isn't that what Shark expects of him?

On the flip side, any damage (no matter how small) to his Essence might not go over too
well with other members of his magical group, who might look upon any artifical
enhancement of a member as ridiculous, and that could have long-term drawbacks for the
shaman.

So, what do you think? I realize I'm talking in very general terms about what opinions
other magic users would have of bioware, but I'm curious as to how bioware is thought of
by the magic community at large in Shadowrun. Thanks!

Ken Hart
satyr9@********.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~evilweb/
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain, but why would anyone want to see
Snow White and the Seven Samurai?"


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Message no. 2
From: Kelson kelson13@***********.com
Subject: Essence and magical groups
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:50:29 -0800
Well, let me see. I don't know that Bioware would be treated any differently than
Cyberware. It degrades your Magic Attribute just as fast, even though it doesn't take
part of your soul with it.

You might want to set up the strictures of the group including their particular views of
Cyberware and Bioware. In general, Cyberware is pretty much shunned among magical types
because of the direct conflict it has with the magics they wield. Bioware has the same
conflict, so I would treat it the same.

Just my opinion. YMMV. :)

Justin


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Message no. 3
From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: Essence and magical groups
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 01:18:54 +1100
At 02:39 25/03/99 -0800, Ken Hart wrote:
>I've got an odd question that I'd like to toss out for feedback. In the SR
>reality, if an existing member of a magical group were to get one piece of
>bioware, how might the other members of the group react to this decision?

This really depends on the nature of the group and its members. Do you have all
this defined? What are the group's strictures. Is it shaman's only and, if so ,
what are their totems? Some magic groups may say "Cool. Now let us help you
choose a geas to avoid the Magic loss." Others may say "Heretic! Burn
him!". It
all depends on how you have defined the group and its members.

>So, what do you think? I realize I'm talking in very general terms about
>what opinions other magic users would have of bioware, but I'm curious as to
>how bioware is thought of by the magic community at large in Shadowrun.
Thanks!

If you use the house rule (that just about every man and his dog has) where
bioware only reduces Magic and not Essence, then bioware will certainly be
viewed more favorably than cyberware. By the vanilla rules (until MaM comes
out) bioware reduces essence for magicians and so is no better than cyberware.
However, though many shamans would have a problem with putting unnatural
modified flesh in there bodies, they may prefer it (if they have to make a
choice) to dead cyberware.

As to whether any individual magician would choose to have bioware in their
body - it's all part of roleplaying and the character's storyline. These body
modifications have both penalties and benefits. Just like any choice in real
life. It's up to the individual to weight the pros and cons - whether
rationally by a mage or intuitively by a shaman (or vice versa). In the end,
some will make the choice to proceed with the implantation. As Shadowrun is not
a class based RPG, there are no character-class choice strictures like "No
shaman will ever accept cyber/bioware in her body" or "All physads must be
Lawful". :-) Nevertheless,statistically speaking, in our game and I believe in
the Shadowrun world in general: only a minority of magicians choose
cyber/bioware mods; for magicians, bioware mods are more common than cyberware;
mods are more common with mages than with shamans.

Unless there is a group stricture against it, I think your shark shaman should
proceed with the bioware. After all, Shark doesn't sit around, indecisive,
trying to make a decision. He makes a choice, good or bad, and charges right
ahead and does it! There should be follow up consequences, rich with
roleplaying, especially with the geas he must take in order to maintain full
contact with Shark. Additionly, he'll have to deal with other magicians who'll
treat him with everything from contempt , to outrage, to admiration, to
uncertainty, to boredom, etc. Have fun.








Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
Message no. 4
From: Joshua Ring strago@***.com
Subject: Essence and magical groups
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:27:23 -0500
> -Snip stuff about magical groups-
>
> If you use the house rule (that just about every man and his dog has) where
> bioware only reduces Magic and not Essence, then bioware will certainly be
> viewed more favorably than cyberware. By the vanilla rules (until MaM comes
> out) bioware reduces essence for magicians and so is no better than cyberware.
> However, though many shamans would have a problem with putting unnatural
> modified flesh in there bodies, they may prefer it (if they have to make a
> choice) to dead cyberware.
>
> As to whether any individual magician would choose to have bioware in their
> body - it's all part of roleplaying and the character's storyline. These body
> modifications have both penalties and benefits. Just like any choice in real
> life. It's up to the individual to weight the pros and cons - whether
> rationally by a mage or intuitively by a shaman (or vice versa). In the end,
> some will make the choice to proceed with the implantation. As Shadowrun is not
> a class based RPG, there are no character-class choice strictures like "No
> shaman will ever accept cyber/bioware in her body" or "All physads must be
> Lawful". :-) Nevertheless,statistically speaking, in our game and I believe in
> the Shadowrun world in general: only a minority of magicians choose
> cyber/bioware mods; for magicians, bioware mods are more common than cyberware;
> mods are more common with mages than with shamans.

Plus, you could, if you really wanted to, pay for cloned bioware (4*cost). In
Shadowtech, it takes one-quarter the body cost off of. In my game, we say that
cloned bioware doesn't take any magic OR essence off of the magician, since you are
just implanting "your" own cells (ie. they contain your DNA and stuff, and thus
your magical energy).
As for how shamans would view it, they could view it the same way: you are just
putting "your" cells into yourself. It's a lot better than putting a MACHINE
*shudder* in yourself.
Message no. 5
From: Veskrashen veskrashen@*******.com
Subject: Essence and magical groups
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:24:05 -0600
Chris Maxfield wrote:
> what are their totems? Some magic groups may say "Cool. Now let us help you
> choose a geas to avoid the Magic loss." Others may say "Heretic! Burn
him!". It
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Huh? I didn't think that you chose it to keep from losing magic
points; I thought that geasa were there as a punishment or incentive
to not get cyberware, limiting your magic even more when you lose
Magic Points. If you can choose a geas to avoid Magic loss, then there
is nothing to stop a magician from loading up with cyberware as much
as a sammy, aside from the fact that they could only cast spells
against green-eyed elves at night while standing on their head.

Veskrashen.
Message no. 6
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Essence and magical groups
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:45:49 -0400
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Veskrashen."
If you can choose a geas to avoid Magic loss, then there
] is nothing to stop a magician from loading up with cyberware as much
] as a sammy, aside from the fact that they could only cast spells
] against green-eyed elves at night while standing on their head.
]
] Veskrashen.

While fly-fishing from the back of a Nissan Jackrabbit.
(That was only four geasa, bub; _I'd_ be spending the
whole college savings!)

-Murder of One
Message no. 7
From: Veskrashen veskrashen@*******.com
Subject: Essence and magical groups
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:31:08 -0600
Scott Wheelock wrote:
>
> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Veskrashen."
> If you can choose a geas to avoid Magic loss, then there
> ] is nothing to stop a magician from loading up with cyberware as much
> ] as a sammy, aside from the fact that they could only cast spells
> ] against green-eyed elves at night while standing on their head.
> ]
> ] Veskrashen.
>
> While fly-fishing from the back of a Nissan Jackrabbit.
> (That was only four geasa, bub; _I'd_ be spending the
> whole college savings!)
>
> -Murder of One

I thought it was one geas per two magic points lost, not one per each.
Am i that screwed up, or what?

Ves.
Message no. 8
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Essence and magical groups
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 05:36:38 -0400
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Veskrashen."
] I thought it was one geas per two magic points lost, not one per each.
] Am i that screwed up, or what?
]
] Ves.

Uhhhh....yeah! You're that screwed up! Really...
It wasn't just me talking out of my ass...

Actually, that's right it's one geas per two points
lost. I should know, I played a cyber-mage for a
long time...his geasa were 1) obvious gestures, and
2) loud, obnoxious swearing. Got rid of them
pretty damned quick, lemme tell you.

Sorry for posting without doing the research.
I'll be more careful next time.

-Murder of One
Message no. 9
From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: Essence and magical groups
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 01:22:09 +1100
At 04:24 26/03/99 -0600, Veskrashen wrote:
>Huh? I didn't think that you chose it to keep from losing magic
>points; I thought that geasa were there as a punishment or incentive
>to not get cyberware, limiting your magic even more when you lose
>Magic Points. If you can choose a geas to avoid Magic loss, then there

Oops. I really shouldn't reply to email after midnight. My mistake.






Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
Message no. 10
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Essence and magical groups
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:33:46 -0600
:I thought it was one geas per two magic points lost, not one per each.
:Am i that screwed up, or what?
:
:Ves.


Not yet, but MiTS should be BACK from the printers in a few weeks...

Mongoose
Message no. 11
From: Dave Post caelric@****.com
Subject: Essence and magical groups
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:35:56 -0800
At 02:33 PM 3/27/99 -0600, you wrote:
>
>:I thought it was one geas per two magic points lost, not one per each.
>:Am i that screwed up, or what?
>:
>:Ves.


Plus, if you read a couple quotes from the Companion, it looks like geasa
will be handled different. It looks more like you have a choice when
you're about to lose a point of magic. You can lose the point, or you can
take a geas. Notice I said OR. Read pg 14, the example of Jenny's
character. '<snip>.....though when she transforms into a ghoul, she'll
lose one of those Power Points unless she takes a geasa on it (see Magic in
the Shadows)' Further on, on pg 34, there is the following 'If the
gamemaster permits, Awakened character may counteract the Magic Rating loss
with geasa, as described in Magic in the Shadows'

Now, both of these are in reference to the magic loss due to becoming a
ghoul (ghoulizing? :) But, it does mean that geasa will be handled
different. How different, we won't know until MitS comes out. Hopefully
soon!

Dave

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