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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: krusch@*******.fho-emden.de (Ingmar Krusch)
Subject: Re: Re: ESSENCE by gruth
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 21:55:34 +0624 (GMT-1:00)
Gruth wrote:

> I'll say this out loud: CYBERPSYCHOSIS DOES NOT EXIST IN SHADOWRUN AND
> IT IS DOUBTFUL WHETHER IT WOULD EXIST IN REAL LIFE OR NOT. Just to make
> sure everybody hears it...
>
> Sorry, this isn't a flame just someone who's tired of hearing that
> question from 50% of everyone who's a new subscriber to this list...

Sorry me, guru Gruth, but is it just me or does SRII (german ed) says on
page 246 (tanslated by me into english):

Cyberweare
<snip>
Should essence drop below zero, the will to live fades and the character
dies soon after. Even with zero essence it's a tricky situation which leads
into despair and melancholie. People with low essece walk on the
edge of madness.

even more dramatically, it is described in Cybertechnologie (don't have the
book handy right now), but it the general idea is that the soul wants to
escape the body once below zero essece, and the character hears voices
(through IMS) when he is lost in details etc.
To me, this sounds like cyberpsychnosis.

This all describes the situation near/below zero, but ....

Ok,Ok. If this discussion went of some time ago like the grounding
drama, I keep my mouth close tight :)

Salve

Ingmar

--


*******************************************************************************

If you did it and you're still alive,
you've probably done it right !

-J. K. W., freelancer

*******************************************************************************
Message no. 2
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.ntu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Re: ESSENCE by gruth
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 08:33:27 +0930 (CST)
Ingmar Krusch wrote:
> Cyberweare
> <snip>
> Should essence drop below zero, the will to live fades and the character
> dies soon after. Even with zero essence it's a tricky situation which leads
> into despair and melancholie. People with low essece walk on the
> edge of madness.

But people with 0.000000001 essence are fine and dandy. :)

> even more dramatically, it is described in Cybertechnologie (don't have the
> book handy right now), but it the general idea is that the soul wants to
> escape the body once below zero essece, and the character hears voices
> (through IMS) when he is lost in details etc.
> To me, this sounds like cyberpsychnosis.

No, no, no... the idea of zero essence is that the connection between the
body and the aura is weakened to the point of non-existance. This describes
DEATH, not cyberpsychosis. The general abstraction from the world is a
result of the spells and the traumatic situation, not the fact that they
have negative essence.

Cyberpsychosis is NOT part of the Shadowrun world.

> Ok,Ok. If this discussion went of some time ago like the grounding
> drama, I keep my mouth close tight :)

*shrug* This crops up at least once every three months.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 3
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Re: ESSENCE by gruth
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 11:52:12 +0100
Ingmar Krusch said on 31 Oct 95...

> Should essence drop below zero, the will to live fades and the character
> dies soon after. Even with zero essence it's a tricky situation which leads
> into despair and melancholie. People with low essece walk on the
> edge of madness.

Yes, it does say that but you can make of that what you will. It's just
one paragraph in the entire book, nowhere does it go to the extent of
CP2020, which has a lot about "cyberpsychosis" starting on page 73 and
going on until page 75, including such topics as "The Psycho Squad" and
"Therapy."

> even more dramatically, it is described in Cybertechnologie (don't have the
> book handy right now), but it the general idea is that the soul wants to
> escape the body once below zero essece, and the character hears voices
> (through IMS) when he is lost in details etc.
> To me, this sounds like cyberpsychnosis.

The way it works in Cybertech, the way I see it, is that you are dead but
you just don't know it yet. That's different than going insane through
cyberware implantation and "humanity loss." The IMS is used to keep your
memories going so you still believe you're alive when, in fact, you're
almost as dead as a doornail...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Vrolijk lachend naar de kloten gaan
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 4
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu>
Subject: Re: ESSENCE by gruth
Date: 01 Nov 1995 10:12:40 -0500
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>>>>> "IK" == Ingmar Krusch <krusch@*******.fho-emden.de>
writes:

IK> Should essence drop below zero, the will to live fades and the
IK> character dies soon after. Even with zero essence it's a tricky
IK> situation which leads into despair and melancholie. People with low
IK> essece walk on the edge of madness.

Point: this is not a psychosis of any sort. It is a direct effect of the
sympathetic nature of magic and the spirit. When your essence reaches 0
your soul (which Shadowrun does state exists) really wants out of your
body; it's ready to die, and because of that so is your physical body.
Ever had the flu, a really nasty case of it? It's that kind of feeling,
compounded several times over.

You might want to check the definition of what psychoses are before you
continue on with this thread.

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--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Message no. 5
From: krusch@*******.fho-emden.de (Ingmar Krusch)
Subject: Re: ESSENCE by gruth
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 15:48:47 +0624 (GMT-1:00)
Rat wrote :
<snip>
> You might want to check the definition of what psychoses are before you
> continue on with this thread.

I hope this isn't a flame :) ????????

Salve

Ingmar
--
*******************************************************************************

If you did it and you're still alive,
you've probably done it right !

-J. K. W., freelancer

*******************************************************************************
Message no. 6
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu>
Subject: Re: ESSENCE by gruth
Date: 02 Nov 1995 11:04:07 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "IK" == Ingmar Krusch <krusch@*******.fho-emden.de>
writes:

>> You might want to check the definition of what psychoses are before
>> you continue on with this thread.
IK> I hope this isn't a flame :) ????????

No, it isn't. It's just a point. There are a lot of people who throw
around medical terms without really knowing what they mean. Contrary to
CP/2020's hype, psychotic behaviour is usually not violent, though it
occasionaly may be. Nor do any of the things that CP/2020 or R.Tal or
any of the other games with "cyberpsychosis" mechanics say induce
violently psychotic behaviour actually actually cause such behaviour.

What I'm saying is that if you're going to argue in support of something
you should know what it is that you're supporting. Most of the people
who argue in support of cyberpsychosis have no idea what they're talking
about.

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--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Message no. 7
From: krusch@*******.fho-emden.de (Ingmar Krusch)
Subject: Re: ESSENCE by gruth
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 16:48:01 +0624 (GMT-1:00)
Rat wrote :
<snip>
> What I'm saying is that if you're going to argue in support of something
> you should know what it is that you're supporting. Most of the people
> who argue in support of cyberpsychosis have no idea what they're talking
> about.

A wiseguy, OH NO :)))
(sorry;)

Salve

Ingmar

Ps. I thought this topic was over 3 month ago ... Stop posting *grin* :)

--
*******************************************************************************

If you did it and you're still alive,
you've probably done it right !

-J. K. W., freelancer

*******************************************************************************

Further Reading

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