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Message no. 1
From: JRCrandall@***.com JRCrandall@***.com
Subject: Essence Question
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 15:22:46 EDT
Please excuse me if this has been covered here before, but I live in middle
left nowhere and just now got M&M.

The latest canon explanation for essence loss is based on the concept that
the interfaces for cyberware are what actually causes essence loss. Simple
add ins, (pins in the canon example) do not cause losses, because they do not
interface.

Given that concept, the question then is this. Why does bone lacing cost
essence, since its essentially full body pin implantation? (Not to mention
fixed spurs, body compartments, etc. that just sit there and interface with
nothing.)

Any help / rationalization would be appreciated.

- Jim
===============The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human
mind to correlate all its contents.
- H.P. Lovecraft
Message no. 2
From: Kenneth Vinson kennethv@****.wisc.edu
Subject: Essence Question
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 19:37:32 +0000
JRCrandall@***.com wrote:
>
> Please excuse me if this has been covered here before, but I live in middle
> left nowhere and just now got M&M.
>
> The latest canon explanation for essence loss is based on the concept that
> the interfaces for cyberware are what actually causes essence loss. Simple
> add ins, (pins in the canon example) do not cause losses, because they do not
> interface.
>
> Given that concept, the question then is this. Why does bone lacing cost
> essence, since its essentially full body pin implantation? (Not to mention
> fixed spurs, body compartments, etc. that just sit there and interface with
> nothing.)
>
> Any help / rationalization would be appreciated.
>
>


The quick and easy answer is that Titanium Bone Lacing is cool, useful,
and makes the character possessing it noticeably more powerful in the
game. Therefore there must be one or more drawbacks attached to it in
order to keep every character in the game from having it. The DLOH and
company did what they usually do and fudged their own stated position
for sake of game balance. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. In
fact, Shadowrun is riddled with examples of nonsensical prices, essence
costs, availabilities, etc., all in the name of game balance. Think of
the "Essence Cost" system as being driven by game balance and think of
the explanation as something that FASA tried to tack on afterwards. Not
a perfect fit, but not a bad one either.

Cheers,

Ken Vinson
Message no. 3
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Essence Question
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 20:11:18 GMT
>From: JRCrandall@***.com
>Please excuse me if this has been covered here before, but I live in middle
>left nowhere and just now got M&M.
<snip>

Personally, pre-MM I had no problem with the concept of essence loss, in MM,
Mr Mulvihill had a go at explaining it in biological terms which, IMHO, was
a bad idea; people feel emotions, drink dispencers (genrally) don't, if you
insist on being more metal than human then you should expect to loose some
humanity as a result.

Phil

That's it; get out of my castle!
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Message no. 4
From: C J Tipton arkades@****.com
Subject: Fw: Essence Question
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 14:54:17 -0500
From: JRCrandall@***.com
Subject: Essence Question

>Please excuse me if this has been covered here before, but I live in
middle
>left nowhere and just now got M&M.

>The latest canon explanation for essence loss is based on the concept
that
>the interfaces for cyberware are what actually causes essence loss.
Simple
>add ins, (pins in the canon example) do not cause losses, because they
do not
>interface.

>Given that concept, the question then is this. Why does bone lacing
cost
>essence, since its essentially full body pin implantation? (Not to
mention
>fixed spurs, body compartments, etc. that just sit there and interface
with
>nothing.)

>Any help / rationalization would be appreciated.

>- Jim

Actually it isn't the interface, as I understand it, but the
electromagnetic interference it causes(which IS the essence loss, BTW).
Anything that interferes with a bodys electromagnetic/Bio electric field,
including plastic and metal lattices
around ones bones will cause essence loss to some degree or another.
Logically, the titanium webbing placed in and
around your bones is going to do a great deal to change your
electromagnetic field, sort of on the order of shoving a lightning rod up
your ass. Too, if your pagan, this explanation would probably also make
more sense to you.

And then that game balance thing comes into it again. GURPS has
bonelacing being in the 50-60 point range, which for those who know the
system is ain't chickenfeed. That's a damn powerful mod.

COWBOY(has had enough psuedo-science for one day)
CJ
Arkades@****.com


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Message no. 5
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: Essence Question
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 16:42:54 -0400
Phil Smith wrote:

> Personally, pre-MM I had no problem with the concept of essence loss, in MM,
> Mr Mulvihill had a go at explaining it in biological terms which, IMHO, was
> a bad idea; people feel emotions, drink dispencers (genrally) don't, if you
> insist on being more metal than human then you should expect to loose some
> humanity as a result.

Eddy trying to make tea. Need I say more? Drink dispensers are people too!

John
Message no. 6
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Essence Question
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:34:07 +0200
According to JRCrandall@***.com, at 15:22 on 6 Jul 00, the word on the
street was...

> Given that concept, the question then is this. Why does bone lacing cost
> essence, since its essentially full body pin implantation? (Not to mention
> fixed spurs, body compartments, etc. that just sit there and interface with
> nothing.)

No idea... it just doesn't seem to make much sense to go to a lot of
trouble defining Essence loss in this way, as there are far too many gaps
in the explanation. I didn't like the idea when I first heard it (in fact
I wanted to ask -- this was at a GenCon seminar -- if that meant we'd get
cyberpsychosis next), and I still don't after having read M&M.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yes, I am broadcasting myself!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: Essence Question
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 07:14:38 -0500
:> The latest canon explanation for essence loss is based on the concept
that
:> the interfaces for cyberware are what actually causes essence loss.
Simple
:> add ins, (pins in the canon example) do not cause losses, because they do
not
:> interface.
:>
:> Given that concept, the question then is this. Why does bone lacing cost
:> essence, since its essentially full body pin implantation? (Not to
mention
:> fixed spurs, body compartments, etc. that just sit there and interface
with
:> nothing.)

I've read that bone cancer is absolutley the single worst pain there is-
doctors can barely even treat it without knocking the patient out cold.
Bone infections can also be brutally, life endingly painful. Given that,
splicing stuf into the bones (espeically all over, as in bone lacing, or
using nanites to do the work) might very well require nervous system
modification- to kill the pain!
I'd personally prefer if the essence loss explantion were still (like
the "astral template" theory) still given as a "character voice"
theory, and
the actual cause not listed in rules text. Having a theory that fits most
of the known facts, but might be wrong, leaves more room for GM's to add
thier own tricks, and (hopefully) less room for silly arguments by players
who want cyber that does not cost any essence.

Mongoose


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Message no. 8
From: JRCrandall@***.com JRCrandall@***.com
Subject: Essence Question
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 17:08:57 EDT
On Fri, 7 Jul 2000 at 11:34:07 Gurth wrote:

> > Given that concept, the question then is this. Why does bone lacing cost
> > essence, since its essentially full body pin implantation? (Not to
mention
> > fixed spurs, body compartments, etc. that just sit there and interface
with
> > nothing.)
>
> No idea... it just doesn't seem to make much sense to go to a lot of
> trouble defining Essence loss in this way, as there are far too many gaps
> in the explanation. I didn't like the idea when I first heard it (in fact
> I wanted to ask -- this was at a GenCon seminar -- if that meant we'd get
> cyberpsychosis next), and I still don't after having read M&M.

That's sort of what I was afraid of. There is no valid (in-game) reason for
it given the canon explanation. *sigh*

For the others that answered, I already understood the game balance reasons
for it, but thanks for the input. I particularly liked the concept of
linking it to the bioelectric field (Orgone, for the real oddballs out there
;-) ), but it doesn't match FASA's M&M canon position.

Another "because that's what the rules say" sort of answer. :-(

- Jim
===============The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human
mind to correlate all its contents.
- H.P. Lovecraft
Message no. 9
From: Ken Peters tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: Essence Question
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:31:47 -0700
From: JRCrandall@***.com <JRCrandall@***.com>
>That's sort of what I was afraid of. There is no valid (in-game) reason
for
>it given the canon explanation. *sigh*


That's the problem with giving "hard" canon answers to something that is
pure game balance to begin with. Its like trying to explain the SR combat
system with some "logical" notations, its not going to work.

>For the others that answered, I already understood the game balance reasons
>for it, but thanks for the input. I particularly liked the concept of
>linking it to the bioelectric field (Orgone, for the real oddballs out
there
>;-) ), but it doesn't match FASA's M&M canon position.


Hey, if SR admits that orgone energy actually exists that means all sorts of
nifty things are then possible. Break out that Warehouse 23 book baby!

Ken
Message no. 10
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: Essence Question
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 17:30:20 -0500
:That's sort of what I was afraid of. There is no valid (in-game) reason
for
:it given the canon explanation. *sigh*

What about the reason I gave? Intense pain / constant use of strong
pain relieving measures isn't a neurological alteration?

Mongoose


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