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From:	Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject:	Etiquette in SR3 (was Re: Implied Rules)
Date:	Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:16:17 -0400

Message no. 1 At 03:43 AM 9/18/98 +1000, you wrote:
>>All of which is why "Each form of Etiquette is really a separate skill"
is
>>such a popular house rule. I've used it all through SR2, and I'm using it
>>unchanged in SR3. I've seen it on other people's rules as well.
<SNIPPED>
> Definitely. A skill simply titled Etiquette is way too broad - why not
>just give the character's skills like Combat, Physical, Technical, and so
>on and not bother with realism at all. =)

Actually, it's not that unrealistic and it does make a certain sort of
sense, if you are willing to drop previous (read: SR1 and SR2) conceptions
about the skill.

Much of what the SR1&2 Etiquette skill represented was knowledge about that
field or area of interest. Corporate Etiquette in a big way was a skill to
know about what was going on in the Corporate world, not so much which
forks to use in a Corporate dinner.

This aspect of the skill, which I always thought was the primary aspect of
the skill, has been replaced by the whole Knowledge Skill thing. Which to
me makes more sense now.

Etiquette is now simply a skill of knowing how to mind your P's and Q's.
Certain areas of specialization, such as Corporate or Street, will give you
an extra area of knowledge and practice within that arena, but much of
general Etiquette is fairly common and not tied to any specific
sub-culture. Sure, Street Etiquette won't tell you how which fork to use
in a ritzy restuarant, but it might tell you to sit back and watch for a
moment and see what the other diners are doing; no etiquette at all would
mean you'd just dive right in, consquences be damned.

So if you realize what the old Etiquette skill was and what the new
Etiquette skill now is, it actually makes sense. I'll be using the SR3
rules for the skill.

For the record, when I was playtesting SR3 and we heard about this, I
wasn't happy either. Complained even. Didn't make sense to me then
either. But I think I've finally figured out what the intended change was
all about and now I understand that this may be a very good change.

Erik J.

http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World

From:	Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: Etiquette in SR3 (was Re: Implied Rules)
Date:	Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:02:18 -0400

Message no. 2 Erik Jameson wrote:
>
> Etiquette is now simply a skill of knowing how to mind your P's and Q's.
> [ . . . ]
> So if you realize what the old Etiquette skill was and what the new
> Etiquette skill now is, it actually makes sense. I'll be using the SR3
> rules for the skill.

I like your explanation, and it makes a lot of sense the way you say it,
but I'm not 100% sure that's what the SR3 tweakers had in mind. Other
parts of the rulebook still refer to Etiquette specializations the old
way. For instance: If Etiquette is now *nothing* but how to leave a good
impression, why is a Street Etiquette test still required to find a
fence? Also, when rolling for item Availability under the gear rules,
it's now the buyer's Street Etiquette, not the fixer's Acquisition, that's
rolled to see whether the item turns up.

By your rationale, these tests should all be covered under "Street
Knowledge: (Area)" or whatever the character chooses to call it. But
they're not; they're still Etiquette. But again, I *do* like your
explanation, and think that even if it's a house rule rather than canon,
it's still superior to the way things look in the book.

Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net

From:	David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject:	Re: Etiquette in SR3 (was Re: Implied Rules)
Date:	Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:45:26 -0400

Message no. 3 On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Steve Eley wrote:

->Erik Jameson wrote:
->>
->> Etiquette is now simply a skill of knowing how to mind your P's and Q's.
->> [ . . . ]
->> So if you realize what the old Etiquette skill was and what the new
->> Etiquette skill now is, it actually makes sense. I'll be using the SR3
->> rules for the skill.
->
->
->I like your explanation, and it makes a lot of sense the way you say it,
->but I'm not 100% sure that's what the SR3 tweakers had in mind. Other
->parts of the rulebook still refer to Etiquette specializations the old
->way. For instance: If Etiquette is now *nothing* but how to leave a good
->impression, why is a Street Etiquette test still required to find a
->fence? Also, when rolling for item Availability under the gear rules,
->it's now the buyer's Street Etiquette, not the fixer's Acquisition, that's
->rolled to see whether the item turns up.

Because you have to ask the right questions, not seem too eager,
and basically act as if you don't really want it, while at the same time
acting as if you expect to get it. Being a former street-gang member (if
my co-workers ever found out, it'd explain a lot of things) I can vouch
that my time on the streets has helped me in the corp environment I am in
now. I know to watch my back, ask the right questions, listen between the
lines, and lie when necessary, all of which I learned on the street.
The scene may have changed, but the rules are the same, big fish
eat little fish who are stupid enough to venture out in the open.

->By your rationale, these tests should all be covered under "Street
->Knowledge: (Area)" or whatever the character chooses to call it. But
->they're not; they're still Etiquette. But again, I *do* like your
->explanation, and think that even if it's a house rule rather than canon,
->it's still superior to the way things look in the book.

Street Knowledge: (area) would probably be a complimentary skill.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?

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