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Message no. 1
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 00:39:52 -0500
This may be a slightly dumb question, but does using a fetish, or making a
spell exclusive change the Spells Force in regard to drain. Example:
ManaBolt Force 5
Normally this would have a drain code of 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down].
Does having a expendable fetish, and making it exclusive (+4 points to
Drain) make the drain code
1.) 4(S)[Force 9 / 2 round down]
or
2.) 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down]
We've always been playing with number 2, but now that I'm re-reading the
magic section of the book, I want to say number 1. My players are going to
kill me if I'm wrong. :)
Thanks. :)
-Court

/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How can I sing like a girl
and not be stigmatized by the rest of the world?
Tell me how can I sing like a girl
And not be objectified as if I were a girl?

I want to raise my freak flag higher and higher
I want to raise my freak flag and never be alone
-They Might Be Giants

***************************************************************************/
Message no. 2
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 02:19:19 -0700
Court Schuett wrote:
>
> This may be a slightly dumb question, but does using a fetish, or making a
> spell exclusive change the Spells Force in regard to drain. Example:
> ManaBolt Force 5
> Normally this would have a drain code of 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down].
> Does having a expendable fetish, and making it exclusive (+4 points to
> Drain) make the drain code
> 1.) 4(S)[Force 9 / 2 round down]
> or
> 2.) 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down]

The drain required for a spell that uses fetishes and/or exclusivity is
determined from the non-altered force - that is, a Manaball-2 that
requires an expendable fetish has its drain figured from the starting
force (2), not the ending force (4).

Follow-up question, since I popped it off in agf.cyber: A mage is under
the influence of the Paralysis spell. He a) has a fetish in his hand;
b) has a fetish in his pocket; c) has a fetish lying on top of his
foot. Can he still use the fetish to cast a spell?

Now if I say, "Why or why not?" I'm gonna feel like I just passed out
midterms...


-Matt
Message no. 3
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:52:52 -0700
---Court Schuett wrote:
>
> This may be a slightly dumb question, but does using a fetish, or
making a
> spell exclusive change the Spells Force in regard to drain.

Wouldn't be much point or advantage to limitting the spell with fetish
or exclusivity if it kicked you in the ass by raising drain too, would
there? ;o)

My understanding has always been the practice allows you to cast at a
higher force, but keep the drain of the original spell.

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
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Message no. 4
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:38:10 -0500
>Wouldn't be much point or advantage to limitting the spell with fetish
>or exclusivity if it kicked you in the ass by raising drain too, would
>there? ;o)
>
>My understanding has always been the practice allows you to cast at a
>higher force, but keep the drain of the original spell.

That's what I always thought too, but, to quote page SR, page 129.."To make
the Drain Resistance Test, roll the spellcaster's Willpower dice, plus any
allocated Magic Pool dice, against a target number equal to the modified
Force of the spell." It's that last line that's the kicker. That makes
the only advantage to using a fetish or exclusive, the fact that you don't
take Physical Damage. That last line can be interepreted in two ways.
First) The "modified Force" is the Drain Code, (F/2)S for example, or
Second) the "modified Force" is the change that the fetich gives you.
I'll prolly rule for the first, just to give a fetish some advantage.
In the game I run, most spellslingers would rather take physical than stun
any day. Reason: you can heal physical. Is there a reason you can't make
a spell you "heal" stun damage? When I break out the tasers, and other fun
stun stuff, the mages dive for cover. These are same mages that'll grit
their teeth and take a SMG hit.
Oh well. :)

-=Court

/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stumbling, fucked-up and alone
stupid, you answer the phone
hello
I want to poison your mind
-Too Much Joy

***************************************************************************/
Message no. 5
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 00:53:14 -0700
---Court Schuett wrote:
>
> >Wouldn't be much point or advantage to limitting the spell with
fetish
> >or exclusivity if it kicked you in the ass by raising drain too,
would
> >there? ;o)
> >
> >My understanding has always been the practice allows you to cast at
a
> >higher force, but keep the drain of the original spell.
>
> That's what I always thought too, but, to quote page SR, page
129.."To make
> the Drain Resistance Test, roll the spellcaster's Willpower dice,
plus any
> allocated Magic Pool dice, against a target number equal to the
modified
> Force of the spell." It's that last line that's the kicker.
>
> -=Court

OK, I'm home from work now and can get at my books...

SRII reads as thus under Restricted Use Spells (page 133):

"An exclusive spell allows the spell to be cast as if its Force Rating
were two levels higher, for the purpose of determining the spell's
effects. Drain is calculated at the normal value, however."

Common sense would be that fetish-requiring versions follow suit.

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:52:09 +0100
Court Schuett said on 0:39/23 Apr 97...

> This may be a slightly dumb question, but does using a fetish, or making a
> spell exclusive change the Spells Force in regard to drain. Example:
> ManaBolt Force 5
> Normally this would have a drain code of 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down].
> Does having a expendable fetish, and making it exclusive (+4 points to
> Drain) make the drain code
> 1.) 4(S)[Force 9 / 2 round down]
> or
> 2.) 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down]
> We've always been playing with number 2, but now that I'm re-reading the
> magic section of the book, I want to say number 1. My players are going to
> kill me if I'm wrong. :)

It's number 2: the Drain is based on the base Force, without modifications
for fetishes or exclusivity. That's the whole point of fetishes etc., you
can cast spells at an _effective_ Force higher than normal, but still
resist Drain (and see if it's Physical or Stun) at the _base_ Force.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
walkman generation
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 7
From: Jose Vicente Mondejar Brell <jomonbre@***.UPV.ES>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:10:00 +0000
<snip about fetishes and exclusivity>
> 1.) 4(S)[Force 9 / 2 round down]
> or
> 2.) 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down]
> We've always been playing with number 2, but now that I'm re-reading the
> magic section of the book, I want to say number 1. My players are going to
> kill me if I'm wrong. :)
> Thanks. :)
> -Court

I don't have the books here with me, but IIRC the correct one is
number 2.
(Oh, and don't let your players kill you. Remind them the
fun of torturing their GM with his own mistakes on the future :)

--
Monde (God, I feel hyperactive today)
Message no. 8
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:27:16 -0500
Date: 23 Apr 97 Time: 0:39
Subject: Exclusivity and Fetishes

TO: Court Schuett

> Does having a expendable fetish, and making it exclusive (+4 points
> to Drain) make the drain code
> 1.) 4(S)[Force 9 / 2 round down]
> or
> 2.) 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down]

All the games I've played in have made it as per #2.

a chaoidh teabadaich,

Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch

Thought for the day:
A penny saved is ridiculous.
Message no. 9
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:29:08 -0500
Date: 23 Apr 97 Time: 1:38
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes

TO: Court Schuett

> fetish some advantage. In the game I run, most spellslingers would
> rather take physical than stun any day. Reason: you can heal
> physical. Is there a reason you can't make a spell you "heal" stun
> damage? When I break out the tasers, and other fun stun stuff, the
> mages dive for cover. These are same mages that'll grit their teeth
> and take a SMG hit. Oh well. :)

Yeah, but doesn't stun damage go away in a very short time, anyway?
Been a while, admittedly, but I'm sure I remember something about
that.

a chaoidh teabadaich,

Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch

It's better to be dead and cool, than alive and uncool.
-- Harley, from Harley Davidson & the Marlboro Man
Message no. 10
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:57:33 GMT
Matb writes

> Court Schuett wrote:
> >
> > This may be a slightly dumb question, but does using a fetish, or making a
> > spell exclusive change the Spells Force in regard to drain. Example:
> > ManaBolt Force 5
> > Normally this would have a drain code of 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down].
> > Does having a expendable fetish, and making it exclusive (+4 points to
> > Drain) make the drain code
> > 1.) 4(S)[Force 9 / 2 round down]
> > or
> > 2.) 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down]
>
> The drain required for a spell that uses fetishes and/or exclusivity is
> determined from the non-altered force - that is, a Manaball-2 that
> requires an expendable fetish has its drain figured from the starting
> force (2), not the ending force (4).
>
The latter. The main rulebook is not a good source on this but GR2
goes through the whole discussion in detail and does explain it in
the latter part of the book.


> Follow-up question, since I popped it off in agf.cyber: A mage is under
> the influence of the Paralysis spell. He a) has a fetish in his hand;
> b) has a fetish in his pocket; c) has a fetish lying on top of his
> foot. Can he still use the fetish to cast a spell?
>
I believe so, there is no bad on casting fetished spells while
projecting as long as the fetishes are on you. I would suggest
contact with the magicians aura to be the vital factor. IMHO.

Mark
Message no. 11
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:56:27 -0700
> This may be a slightly dumb question, but does using a fetish, or making
a
> spell exclusive change the Spells Force in regard to drain. Example:
> ManaBolt Force 5
> Normally this would have a drain code of 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down].
> Does having a expendable fetish, and making it exclusive (+4 points to
> Drain) make the drain code
> 1.) 4(S)[Force 9 / 2 round down]
> or
> 2.) 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down]
> We've always been playing with number 2, but now that I'm re-reading the
> magic section of the book, I want to say number 1. My players are going
to
> kill me if I'm wrong. :)
>
We use number two as well, but don't you round up when determining drain?
If not I am going to kill my GM ;)

-Caric

"One cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."
-Albert Einstein
Message no. 12
From: Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 23:51:43 GMT
Court Schuett enlightened us with these words of wisdom:
>This may be a slightly dumb question, but does using a fetish, or making a
>spell exclusive change the Spells Force in regard to drain. Example:

Okay, I've read the books on this one various times....and as I understand
it, the modifier effects ONLY the resistance test of the enemy and the Spell
Success Test.
So:

>ManaBolt Force 5

(i.e., you spent 5 karma.)

>Normally this would have a drain code of 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down].
>Does having a expendable fetish, and making it exclusive (+4 points to
>Drain) make the drain code

>1.) 4(S)[Force 9 / 2 round down]
(No)
> or
>2.) 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down]
Yes. And it you would roll the Success test as if it were Force 9, and the
enemy would resist at a target 9.

If it was number 1, then the only benefit of the modifiers would be the
learning cost, and then it wouldn't be worth it.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 13
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:28:57 EDT
On Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:29:08 -0500 Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
writes:
>Date: 23 Apr 97 Time: 1:38
>Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
>
>TO: Court Schuett
>
>> fetish some advantage. In the game I run, most spellslingers would
>> rather take physical than stun any day. Reason: you can heal
>> physical. Is there a reason you can't make a spell you "heal" stun
>> damage? When I break out the tasers, and other fun stun stuff, the
>> mages dive for cover. These are same mages that'll grit their teeth
>> and take a SMG hit. Oh well. :)
>
>Yeah, but doesn't stun damage go away in a very short time, anyway?
>Been a while, admittedly, but I'm sure I remember something about
>that.

Well, the good news about Stun damage is that you can sleep it off and it
can't cause you to lose Magic or cause permanent damage to your system.
The bad news is that it can't be magically (poof!) healed or treated, and
it rolls over onto physical...

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 14
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:28:57 EDT
On Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:27:16 -0500 Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
writes:
>Date: 23 Apr 97 Time: 0:39
>Subject: Exclusivity and Fetishes
>
>TO: Court Schuett
>
>> Does having a expendable fetish, and making it exclusive (+4 points
>> to Drain) make the drain code
>> 1.) 4(S)[Force 9 / 2 round down]
>> or
>> 2.) 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down]
>
>All the games I've played in have made it as per #2.

I've always assumed the fetish and exclusivity bonuses did not add to the
Drain of the spell, but I can't recall how it's worded in SR2 and don't
have that book...IOW, I always ran it as the Exclusivity and
fetish-related Force bonuses add to the Force resisting spell effects,
but not for resisting Drain (note: the bonuses do not actually increase
the force of the spell, it resists dispelling and attempts at astral
combat at its base Force rating, I believe)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 15
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:20:53 GMT
Caric writes

> > 2.) 2(S)[Force 5 / 2 round down]
> >
> We use number two as well, but don't you round up when determining drain?
> If not I am going to kill my GM ;)
>
Opinions vary but SR usually rounds down for everything, though the
odd exception has been found.
The real reason to say (whatever the rules might say on the subject)
that drain should round down is its puts a good case for force 5
spells over force 6 otherwise you have no change in drain TN for a
50% reduction in the success rate for resisting the spell between
force 5 and 6. Which means anyne taking a force 5 spell for something
resisted with 'drain rounds up' is silly. Which makes SR's already
troublesome TN advancement even worse.

Mark
Message no. 16
From: "Darrell L. Bowman" <bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:31:51 +0000
On 23 Apr 97 at 8:29, Shaun Sides wrote:

> Yeah, but doesn't stun damage go away in a very short time, anyway?
> Been a while, admittedly, but I'm sure I remember something about
> that.

One hour of sleep/rest per point of stun damage... I do
believe..

Excalibur
Darrell Bowman
bowmandl@*****.dhr.state.nc.us
Message no. 17
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Exclusivity and Fetishes
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:18:25 +1000
> > Yeah, but doesn't stun damage go away in a very short time, anyway?
> > Been a while, admittedly, but I'm sure I remember something about
> > that.
>
> One hour of sleep/rest per point of stun damage... I do
> believe..

You get a willpower test to reduce the base time, so it almost never works
out to be quite that long.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
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-----------------------------------------------------

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