Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!)
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 02:08:57 -0500
The Skills listed in SR are incomplete (IMO) and the "Special Skills"
that are developed tend to be better suited towards concentrations of
general skills rather than general skills themselves so I wanna make more
complete listing (If someone already did this, can someone point me in
the proper direction?) with as many skills as possible grouped into
logical general skill categories. I'll start it off and hopefully other
listmembers will add to listing (Don't quote the whole list, I'll compile
it seperately) and then perhaps some kind soul will print it (online or
in a publication).

Format is (For Categories see pg 75 BBBv2):
General Skill (category)
Concetration 1 (specializations)
Concetration 2 (specializations)
.
.
.
Concetration n (specializations)

General Skills
Acting (Social?)
Mimery (Specific Action?)
Mimicry (Specific Sound?)
Per Style/Method of Acting (?)
Cooking (?)
Per Preperation Method (?)
Leather work (Technical? B/R?)
Per Material (Per Type of Item) or
Per Type of Item (Per Material)
Math (Knowledge)
Advanced Math (?) [Calculus, and advanced concepts]
Basic Math (?) [covers basics upto geometry/algebra]
Mathematical Theory (?) [The REALLY advanced stuff]
Mechanisms? (technical? B/R?)
Build traps
Disarm Traps
Pick Locks
Set Traps
Meditaion (?)
Per technique? (?)
Per purpose? (?)
Metal work (Technical? B/R?)
Per Material (Per Type of Item) or
Per Type of Item (Per Material)
Poetry (Social or Knowledge)
Poetic Improvisation (Specific Style)
Formal Poetry? (Specific Style)
Riding (Vehicle?) [Must be developed seperately for each type of animal]
Specific Type of animal [Quarter Horse vrs Horse] (Specific Animal
[Bob, the Quarter Horse])
Rumormil (Social)
Identical to Etiquette
Stone work (Technical? B/R?)
Per Material (Per Type of Item) or
Per Type of Item (Per Material)
Survival (?)
Hunting (type of game) [includes fishing]
Foraging (type of food) [Veggies only :)]
Survival per Environ (per Aspect) [For Environs see Stealth]
Trickery (Active?)
Camouflage? (per Environ) [For Environs see Stealth]
Pick Pocket (?)
Sleight-of-Hand (Specific "Trick")
Visual Art
Per Medium (Per Style)
Wood work (Technical? B/R?)
Fletching (Specific Type of Fletching?)
Wood Carving (Per Type of Item)

Miscellaneous Skills (Format: Skill (Category) [Any notes])
Astronomy (Knowledge concentration of Physical Sciences)
Blind Fighting (Combat?)
Contortions (Physical concentration of Athletics?) [this represents
squeezing into tight places]
Detect Traps (?)
Detect Poison (?)
Hypnosis (?)
Lip Reading (Language developed per language?)
Mounted Combat (Combat?)
Seduction (Social? Social concentration of Negotiation?)
Sewing (?)
Sign Language (Language-as per language based upon?)
Theology (Knowledge concentration of Sociology)
Tight-Rope Walking (Physical concentration of Athletics?)
Tracking (?)
Ventriloquism (Social?)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum (IotE))

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 2
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!)
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:52:38 EDT
In a message dated 5/18/98 2:11:47 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> The Skills listed in SR are incomplete (IMO) and the "Special Skills"
> that are developed tend to be better suited towards concentrations of
> general skills rather than general skills themselves so I wanna make more
> complete listing (If someone already did this, can someone point me in
> the proper direction?) with as many skills as possible grouped into
> logical general skill categories. I'll start it off and hopefully other
> listmembers will add to listing (Don't quote the whole list, I'll compile
> it seperately) and then perhaps some kind soul will print it (online or
> in a publication).

Okay, I'll snip some parts outright then, and toss around what I agree,
disagree or advise with. Additional Skills, if any, I'll add in as well.

> General Skills
> Acting (Social?)

Closest "Category" I can come up with would "Artistic". Without
adding
another group, Social, based upon Acting as a "Social Interaction
Stimulation".

> Mimicry (Specific Sound?)
> Per Style/Method of Acting (?)

These two may need some detailing. Mimicry especially. And "Method Actors"
are -SO- annoying :)

> Cooking (?)
> Per Preperation Method (?)
> Leather work (Technical? B/R?)
> Per Material (Per Type of Item) or
> Per Type of Item (Per Material)

Actually, Leather Working is part of B/R Fashion, or B/R (Group) (aka, Vehicle
Type or Armor). IMO.

> Math (Knowledge)
> Advanced Math (?) [Calculus, and advanced concepts]
> Basic Math (?) [covers basics upto geometry/algebra]
> Mathematical Theory (?) [The REALLY advanced stuff]

As sad as it sounds, this is part of Physical Sciences. Please note, in our
games, we moved Physical Sciences into the Technical Skill group (SPU Math as
our reasoning).

> Mechanisms? (technical? B/R?)

Again, definitely something that is grouped strange. IMO, a B/R skill group.

> Meditaion (?)
> Per technique? (?)
> Per purpose? (?)

Ooo, this would be a nasty area actually. The "Per Purpose" that you are
placing in there is probably leaving itself open for a LOT of abuse.

> Metal work (Technical? B/R?)
> Per Material (Per Type of Item) or
> Per Type of Item (Per Material)

Actually, this is part of Metallurgy or B/R (Group Name) already. Metallurgy
of course falls under Physical Sciences. ;/ I like how you are trying to
expand this though so far....

> Poetry (Social or Knowledge)
> Poetic Improvisation (Specific Style)
> Formal Poetry? (Specific Style)

Knowledge Skill Group -OR- Language Skill (Non-Cultural). You could actually
have Poetry as a study within a given group of Languages also (Romance,
Nordic, Uto-Aztecan (DON'T ASK!!!)).

> Riding (Vehicle?) [Must be developed seperately for each type of animal]
> Specific Type of animal [Quarter Horse vrs Horse] (Specific Animal
> [Bob, the Quarter Horse])

Skill already exists somewhere, might be a left over from First Ed. It's
called "Equestrian". It concerns the riding of "Living Mounts" or
those of
similar designs (such as an Ally spirit in a Horse Statue). I think it
defaults to Quickness. I could also be simply misplacing this one. We don't
use it very often anymore.

> Rumormil (Social)
> Identical to Etiquette

Then why do we need it? It's even part of the same Skill Family...

> Stone work (Technical? B/R?)
> Per Material (Per Type of Item) or
> Per Type of Item (Per Material)

B/R Masonry.

> Survival (?)
> Hunting (type of game) [includes fishing]
> Foraging (type of food) [Veggies only :)]
> Survival per Environ (per Aspect) [For Environs see Stealth]

Definitely a skill group of it's own. If I -had- to put it with a particular
group, I would actually place it with Knowledge.

> Trickery (Active?)
> Camouflage? (per Environ) [For Environs see Stealth]
> Pick Pocket (?)
> Sleight-of-Hand (Specific "Trick")

Most of this is already covered under Stealth IIRC.

> Visual Art
> Per Medium (Per Style)

Artist Group.

> Wood work (Technical? B/R?)
> Fletching (Specific Type of Fletching?)
> Wood Carving (Per Type of Item)

Artistic or B/R Carpentry.

> Miscellaneous Skills (Format: Skill (Category) [Any notes])
> Astronomy (Knowledge concentration of Physical Sciences)

And that is where it would likely work best.

> Blind Fighting (Combat?)

Modifier Skill in our games, a lot like the Ambidexterity Skill.

> Contortions (Physical concentration of Athletics?) [this represents
> squeezing into tight places]

I keep thinking there is a group for this already.

> Detect Traps (?)
> Detect Poison (?)

Biotech, Medicine, or Chemistry. Medkits of Chemists Field Kits would also be
required. Detection Magic works nice also ;p

> Hypnosis (?)

Psychology Skill IIRC.

> Lip Reading (Language developed per language?)

Special Skill and likely to remain there IMO.

> Mounted Combat (Combat?)

Oooo, this is a neat one. It -might- be a concentration within Armed Combat
(as I just don't see people having punching fights on a consistent basis while
riding horses or elephants).

> Seduction (Social? Social concentration of Negotiation?)

I would make it either Negotiations Concentration or Psychology.

> Sewing (?)

B/R Fashion agian.

> Sign Language (Language-as per language based upon?)

Language Family Group.

> Theology (Knowledge concentration of Sociology)

And likely to remain there.

> Tight-Rope Walking (Physical concentration of Athletics?)

Yes.

> Tracking (?)

There is a "Sentry" skill that is presented to an NPC (the Corp Guard I think)
that has a skill that is almost as vague as "Tracking" would be IMO. I know
that "tailing" is part of Stealth.

> Ventriloquism (Social?)

Special Skill IMO.

sorry about the cuts and slashes I did here. I do agree that the list of
skills in the book need flushed out more, but from the POV of better
descriptions/definitions of the skill groups and their various skill
concentrations.

-K
Message no. 3
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!)
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:35:07 -0500
Alfredo B Alves wrote:
>
> The Skills listed in SR are incomplete (IMO) and the "Special Skills"
> that are developed tend to be better suited towards concentrations of
> general skills rather than general skills themselves so I wanna make more
> complete listing (If someone already did this, can someone point me in
> the proper direction?) with as many skills as possible grouped into
> logical general skill categories. I'll start it off and hopefully other
> listmembers will add to listing (Don't quote the whole list, I'll compile
> it seperately) and then perhaps some kind soul will print it (online or
> in a publication).

I agree with this to some extent but don't feel it is nessary get as
complex as you have gotten.
Specaial skill covers almost anything not covered under the mail skill
blocks and other things almost always fir into one of the existing
catagories.
<snip>

> Miscellaneous Skills (Format: Skill (Category) [Any notes])
> Astronomy (Knowledge concentration of Physical Sciences)
> Blind Fighting (Combat?)
> Contortions (Physical concentration of Athletics?) [this represents
> squeezing into tight places]
> Detect Traps (?)
> Detect Poison (?)
> Hypnosis (?)

IE these would all be considered to be special skills and are covered by
the existing rules.

<More snipped>

While the list you created is quite impressive IMO as a GM I way to much
paperwork work anyways and would not want to include something like that
into my game.
Message no. 4
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!)
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:05:08 -0500
On Mon, 18 May 1998 02:08:57 -0500 Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
writes:
>The Skills listed in SR are incomplete (IMO) and the "Special Skills"
>that are developed tend to be better suited towards concentrations of
>general skills rather than general skills themselves so I wanna make
>more complete listing (If someone already did this, can someone point
>me in the proper direction?)

Yes, I'm replying to my own message, I forgot a couple of skills :)

>General Skills
Law (Knowledge)
Type of Law [ie Criminal, Civil] (Type of cases)
Law-Enforcement (Jurisdiction) [Includes Police Procedures]
Business (Knowledge?)
Type/Scale of Business (?) [Covers the running of Businesses... Is
there a skill for this in Corporate Shadowfiles?]

>D.Ghost
>(aka Pixel, Tantrum (IotE))

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 5
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!)
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:53:43 -0500
On Mon, 18 May 1998 09:52:38 EDT Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 5/18/98 2:11:47 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dghost@****.COM writes:
>
>> The Skills listed in SR are incomplete (IMO) and the "Special Skills"
>> that are developed tend to be better suited towards concentrations of
>> general skills rather than general skills themselves so I wanna make
more
>> complete listing (If someone already did this, can someone point me
in
<SNIP As much as possible ;)>
>> General Skills
>> Acting (Social?)

>Closest "Category" I can come up with would "Artistic". Without
adding
>another group, Social, based upon Acting as a "Social Interaction
>Stimulation".

So the General skill would be Artistic with Acting, Visual Arts, Musical
Intruments, and a few others a concentrations?

>> Mimicry (Specific Sound?)
>> Per Style/Method of Acting (?)

>These two may need some detailing. Mimicry especially. And "Method
Actors"
>are -SO- annoying :)

If you mean descriptions, Mimery is pantomime ("A Mime is a terrible
thing to waste...") and Mimicry is the ability to mimic sounds or
approximate them as close as possible.

<SNIP As much as possible ;)>
>> Math (Knowledge)
>> Advanced Math (?) [Calculus, and advanced concepts]
>> Basic Math (?) [covers basics upto geometry/algebra]
>> Mathematical Theory (?) [The REALLY advanced stuff]

>As sad as it sounds, this is part of Physical Sciences. Please note, in
our
>games, we moved Physical Sciences into the Technical Skill group (SPU
Math as
>our reasoning).

Math is not specifically listed as a concetration of Physical Sciences...
However, it may be best for simplicity's sake to make it so... I do like
it better as a seperate skill, though. Also, it may be a good idea to
move Engineering from a concentration of Physical Sciences to its own
skill in the Technical Group.

<SNIP As much as possible ;)>
>> Meditaion (?)
>> Per technique? (?)
>> Per purpose? (?)

>Ooo, this would be a nasty area actually. The "Per Purpose" that you
are
>placing in there is probably leaving itself open for a LOT of abuse.

I don't see how ... You concentrate on Meditative Healing, Meditative
Focus (using meditation to focus thoughts), etc ... How can that be
abused? I don't see it, but if the potential is there, I want to make a
note of it :)

>> Metal work (Technical? B/R?)
>> Per Material (Per Type of Item) or
>> Per Type of Item (Per Material)

>Actually, this is part of Metallurgy or B/R (Group Name) already.
Metallurgy
>of course falls under Physical Sciences. ;/ I like how you are trying
to
>expand this though so far....

Thanks. :)

I don't know... so scientists are skilled at making jewelery, horseshoes,
etc ...? I may group the Metal, Wood, Stone, & Leather working skills
into a general Crafts skill...

<SNIP As much as possible ;)>
>> Riding (Vehicle?) [Must be developed seperately for each type of
animal]
>> Specific Type of animal [Quarter Horse vrs Horse] (Specific Animal
>> [Bob, the Quarter Horse])

>Skill already exists somewhere, might be a left over from First Ed.
It's
>called "Equestrian". It concerns the riding of "Living Mounts" or
those
of
>similar designs (such as an Ally spirit in a Horse Statue). I think it
>defaults to Quickness. I could also be simply misplacing this one. We
don't
>use it very often anymore.

Actually, one of the archetypes in the BBB (the Tribesman) has the
Horseback riding skill. Is that what you are thinking of?

>> Rumormil (Social)
>> Identical to Etiquette

>Then why do we need it? It's even part of the same Skill Family...

No... the concentrations are identical to Etiquette... this skill covers
knowing the dirt in whatever circles ...

<SNIP As much as possible ;)>
>> Survival (?)
>> Hunting (type of game) [includes fishing]
>> Foraging (type of food) [Veggies only :)]
>> Survival per Environ (per Aspect) [For Environs see Stealth]

>Definitely a skill group of it's own. If I -had- to put it with a
particular
>group, I would actually place it with Knowledge.

>> Trickery (Active?)
>> Camouflage? (per Environ) [For Environs see Stealth]
>> Pick Pocket (?)
>> Sleight-of-Hand (Specific "Trick")

>Most of this is already covered under Stealth IIRC.

If it is, its not stated in the BBB ... :)

<SNIP As much as possible ;)>
>> Blind Fighting (Combat?)

>Modifier Skill in our games, a lot like the Ambidexterity Skill.

yeah, that's how I was gonna handle it :)

>> Contortions (Physical concentration of Athletics?) [this represents
>> squeezing into tight places]

>I keep thinking there is a group for this already.

I think you are thinking of the Escape Artist Concentration of Athletics
(Awakenings) but IIRC, that only covers escaping bonds...

<SNIP As much as possible ;)>
>> Hypnosis (?)

>Psychology Skill IIRC.

Not listed as such but could work ... or Biotech?

<SNIP As much as possible ;)>
>> Mounted Combat (Combat?)

>Oooo, this is a neat one. It -might- be a concentration within Armed
Combat
>(as I just don't see people having punching fights on a consistent basis
while
>riding horses or elephants).

Well, what about using firearms from horseback? I was thinking of making
this a special skill where you use the lower of your Mounted Combat skill
or your combat skill for the attack roll ...

>> Seduction (Social? Social concentration of Negotiation?)
>
>I would make it either Negotiations Concentration or Psychology.
>
>> Sewing (?)

>B/R Fashion agian.

Is B/R Fasion a canon skill somewhere or a new skill you are suggesting?

<SNIP As much as possible ;)>
>> Tracking (?)

>There is a "Sentry" skill that is presented to an NPC (the Corp Guard I
think)
>that has a skill that is almost as vague as "Tracking" would be IMO. I
know
>that "tailing" is part of Stealth.

Actually, I just read that Tracking is included in Tracking ... go figure
:/

<SNIP As much as possible ;)>
>sorry about the cuts and slashes I did here. I do agree that the list
of
>skills in the book need flushed out more, but from the POV of better
>descriptions/definitions of the skill groups and their various skill
>concentrations.
>
>-K

Yupyup :) Well, I wanted to make a big list-o-skills because a lot of the
special skills should, IMO, be part of general skills (like locksmithing)
and to encourage picking skills other than the ones in BBB ... sometime
after all this I'll make a skill Web fer this too :)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 6
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!)
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:54:20 +1200
Quoth Alfredo B Alves (0705 19-5-98):

On Mon, 18 May 1998 02:08:57 -0500 Alfredo B Alves
<dghost@****.COM>
writes:
>The Skills listed in SR are incomplete (IMO) and the "Special
Skills"
>that are developed tend to be better suited towards
concentrations of
>general skills rather than general skills themselves so I wanna
make
>more complete listing (If someone already did this, can someone
point
>me in the proper direction?)

Yes, I'm replying to my own message, I forgot a couple of skills
:)

>General Skills
Law (Knowledge)
Type of Law [ie Criminal, Civil] (Type of cases)
Law-Enforcement (Jurisdiction) [Includes Police Procedures]

Close, but no cigar. Your approach makes sense, but (at least in my
campaign) 'Law Enforcement' is an Etiquette concentration, specialised
by organisation (eg Lone Star) or by jurisdiction (eg UCAS),. I'd make
Law itself another Etiquette concentration, separated from Law
Enforcement, and Corporate, by one dot and specialised by the type of
law (Criminal, Civil, Corporate). (Is the distinction between types of
cases really that major? The same skills are involved for each:
research, persuasiveness, the ability to spot and exploit weaknesses in
the opponent's arguments and testimony.)

Business (Knowledge?)
Type/Scale of Business (?) [Covers the running of
Businesses... Is
there a skill for this in Corporate Shadowfiles?]

Doesn't this fall under Etiquette (Corporate)?

All IMHO.

Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
Message no. 7
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!)
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:57:05 -0500
On Tue, 19 May 1998 08:54:20 +1200 Danyel N Woods
<9604801@********.AC.NZ> writes:
> Quoth Alfredo B Alves (0705 19-5-98):
>
>On Mon, 18 May 1998 02:08:57 -0500 Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
writes:
>>The Skills listed in SR are incomplete (IMO) and the "Special Skills"
>>that are developed tend to be better suited towards concentrations of
>>general skills rather than general skills themselves so I wanna make
>>more complete listing (If someone already did this, can someone point
>>me in the proper direction?)

>Yes, I'm replying to my own message, I forgot a couple of skills :)
>
>>General Skills
>Law (Knowledge)
> Type of Law [ie Criminal, Civil] (Type of cases)
> Law-Enforcement (Jurisdiction) [Includes Police Procedures]
>
>Close, but no cigar. Your approach makes sense, but (at least in my
>campaign) 'Law Enforcement' is an Etiquette concentration, specialised
>by organisation (eg Lone Star) or by jurisdiction (eg UCAS),. I'd make
>Law itself another Etiquette concentration, separated from Law
>Enforcement, and Corporate, by one dot and specialised by the type of
>law (Criminal, Civil, Corporate). (Is the distinction between types of
>cases really that major? The same skills are involved for each:
>research, persuasiveness, the ability to spot and exploit weaknesses in
>the opponent's arguments and testimony.)

The Concentration reflects not the skills involved but the focused area
of study. In other words someone with a concentration in criminal law is
skilled in arguing all kinds of law, but, is only familiar with criminal
cases and proceedings. (ie what type of evidence is admissable, what
kind of testimony is allowed)

>>Business (Knowledge?)
>> Type/Scale of Business (?) [Covers the running of Businesses... Is
there a >> skill for this in Corporate Shadowfiles?]
>
>Doesn't this fall under Etiquette (Corporate)?
>
>All IMHO.
>
> Danyel Woods
<SNIP Sig>

IMO, Etiquette represents the skilld to "Survive" in a corporate world...
Who to talk to, how to dress, etc... Whereas the Business skill would
cover the running of the Business itself.

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 8
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!)
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:50:35 EDT
In a message dated 5/18/98 2:20:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> Yes, I'm replying to my own message, I forgot a couple of skills :)

Then I'll reply to it as I did your other one this morning guy...

> >General Skills
> Law (Knowledge)
> Type of Law [ie Criminal, Civil] (Type of cases)
> Law-Enforcement (Jurisdiction) [Includes Police Procedures]

Ooo, here's a good one. Isn't there a "Police Procedures" special skill in
the hands of an NPC somewhere? Sprawl Sites??? I think I would place "Law"
as a Knowledge skill for certain. Sadly, it would probably fall under
"Sociology" within the current mechanics, and I -KNOW- that doesn't do it
justice (ick, a pun).

> Business (Knowledge?)
> Type/Scale of Business (?) [Covers the running of Businesses... Is
> there a skill for this in Corporate Shadowfiles?]

Nope, no skill currently within any of the books that I have found, or at
least quickly recall. I know we've had Etiquette (Corporate) cover a lot of
the stuff before. And then, as a spinoff of "Police Procedures", we've had
"Business Procedures", with concentrations in Corporate, Private and Short-
Term.

-K
Message no. 9
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!)
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:05:49 EDT
In a message dated 5/18/98 2:22:26 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> >Closest "Category" I can come up with would "Artistic".
Without adding
> >another group, Social, based upon Acting as a "Social Interaction
> >Stimulation".
>
> So the General skill would be Artistic with Acting, Visual Arts, Musical
> Intruments, and a few others a concentrations?

No, sorry for the confusion... "Artistic Skill Group" (like Physical,
Technical, B/R, etc.). However, "Music Skills" are mentioned in Shadowbeat.

> >> Mimicry (Specific Sound?)
> >> Per Style/Method of Acting (?)
<snip>
> If you mean descriptions, Mimery is pantomime ("A Mime is a terrible
> thing to waste...") and Mimicry is the ability to mimic sounds or
> approximate them as close as possible.

Well actually I meant describing certain limitations on the "Mundane Mimicry",
lest it get too carried away...

> Math is not specifically listed as a concetration of Physical Sciences...
> However, it may be best for simplicity's sake to make it so... I do like
> it better as a seperate skill, though. Also, it may be a good idea to
> move Engineering from a concentration of Physical Sciences to its own
> skill in the Technical Group.

I kept wishing they would have made each of the -MAJOR- skill areas into their
own General Skills (Engineering, Mathematics, Chemistry, Botanics, etc...).

> >> Per purpose? (?)
> >Ooo, this would be a nasty area actually. The "Per Purpose" that you
> are
> >placing in there is probably leaving itself open for a LOT of abuse.
> I don't see how ... You concentrate on Meditative Healing, Meditative
> Focus (using meditation to focus thoughts), etc ... How can that be
> abused? I don't see it, but if the potential is there, I want to make a
> note of it :)

From the POV of what does Meditation actually do in terms of Game Mechanics.
A LOT of people would see this as a way to get any mundane in "Enhanced
Centering-like" abilities.

> I don't know... so scientists are skilled at making jewelery, horseshoes,
> etc ...? I may group the Metal, Wood, Stone, & Leather working skills
> into a general Crafts skill...

Now -THAT- is a good idea.

> Actually, one of the archetypes in the BBB (the Tribesman) has the
> Horseback riding skill. Is that what you are thinking of?

It might be, yes.

> >Then why do we need it? It's even part of the same Skill Family...
> No... the concentrations are identical to Etiquette... this skill covers
> knowing the dirt in whatever circles ...

Ah, but in order to get into those circles you have to be -able to get in
those circles first-.

> >> Trickery (Active?)
> >> Camouflage? (per Environ) [For Environs see Stealth]
> >> Pick Pocket (?)
> >> Sleight-of-Hand (Specific "Trick")
> >Most of this is already covered under Stealth IIRC.
> If it is, its not stated in the BBB ... :)

Well, I know that Pick Pocket is, Camouflage might be a concentration that is
as yet undefined within the game. Sleight-of-Hand (aka. Prestidigitation)
would incur some strangeness if used with Stealth. Perhaps it's another of
those "Craft" skills you were considering. A Stand-Alone that is part of
"Stage Magic" or something similar.

> >> Contortions (Physical concentration of Athletics?) [this represents
> >> squeezing into tight places]
> >I keep thinking there is a group for this already.
> I think you are thinking of the Escape Artist Concentration of Athletics
> (Awakenings) but IIRC, that only covers escaping bonds...

I don't think so, at least that is not my take on the skill mentioned in
Awakenings. IMO, Escape Artist is one of those "Craft Skills", perhaps part
of "Stage Magic" (I think I am falling into a pattern here :) and it covers
more than just slipping out of bonds or hand-cuffs. In fact, Specializations
would be a particular type of bond or "trap".

> >> Hypnosis (?)
> >Psychology Skill IIRC.
> Not listed as such but could work ... or Biotech?

I am assuming you are referring to Chemical Additives to the Hypnosis?
Believe it or not, Psychologists (Not Psychiatrists) are allowed to use
chemical assistance in some manners under proper authorization for just such
usage.

> >> Mounted Combat (Combat?)
> Well, what about using firearms from horseback? I was thinking of making
> this a special skill where you use the lower of your Mounted Combat skill
> or your combat skill for the attack roll ...

What if it was a "Modifier Skill" then? Fighting from "Mounted
Position"
incurs a set of modifiers that would vary by the action of the mount, it's
position etcera? The skill would reduce the target modifiers in this case.

> >B/R Fashion agian.
> Is B/R Fasion a canon skill somewhere or a new skill you are suggesting?

A new skill sorry, it's a crazy habit I get into. When you have the number of
"House Rules to fix the Canon Rules" that we do, things get slipped by...

> Actually, I just read that Tracking is included in Tracking ... go figure
> :/

Laugh

> Yupyup :) Well, I wanted to make a big list-o-skills because a lot of the
> special skills should, IMO, be part of general skills (like locksmithing)
> and to encourage picking skills other than the ones in BBB ... sometime
> after all this I'll make a skill Web fer this too :)

I do NOT envy you this. I did remake part of the magical skill web area a
while ago. It was pretty scarey.

-K
Message no. 10
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!)
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:30:15 -0500
On Mon, 18 May 1998 19:05:49 EDT Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 5/18/98 2:22:26 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dghost@****.COM writes:
<SNIP as much as possible :)>
>> >> Mimicry (Specific Sound?)
>> >> Per Style/Method of Acting (?)
><snip>
>> If you mean descriptions, Mimery is pantomime ("A Mime is a terrible
>> thing to waste...") and Mimicry is the ability to mimic sounds or
>> approximate them as close as possible.

>Well actually I meant describing certain limitations on the "Mundane
Mimicry",
>lest it get too carried away...

Well, that would be a GM's call based on what kind of sounds the
character could realisticly reproduce.

>> Math is not specifically listed as a concetration of Physical
Sciences...
>> However, it may be best for simplicity's sake to make it so... I do
like
>> it better as a seperate skill, though. Also, it may be a good idea
to
>> move Engineering from a concentration of Physical Sciences to its own
>> skill in the Technical Group.

>I kept wishing they would have made each of the -MAJOR- skill areas into
their
>own General Skills (Engineering, Mathematics, Chemistry, Botanics,
etc...).

Yeah, That makes more sense to me too

>> >> Per purpose? (?)

>> >Ooo, this would be a nasty area actually. The "Per Purpose" that
you are
>> >placing in there is probably leaving itself open for a LOT of abuse.

>> I don't see how ... You concentrate on Meditative Healing, Meditative
>> Focus (using meditation to focus thoughts), etc ... How can that be
>> abused? I don't see it, but if the potential is there, I want to
make a
>> note of it :)

>>From the POV of what does Meditation actually do in terms of Game
Mechanics.
>A LOT of people would see this as a way to get any mundane in "Enhanced
>Centering-like" abilities.

Well, You COULD use Meditation for centering you could take Meditative
Focus as a Centering skill ... I don't see the problem :)

<SNIP as much as possible :)>
>> >> Hypnosis (?)

>> >Psychology Skill IIRC.

>> Not listed as such but could work ... or Biotech?

>I am assuming you are referring to Chemical Additives to the Hypnosis?
>Believe it or not, Psychologists (Not Psychiatrists) are allowed to use
>chemical assistance in some manners under proper authorization for just
such
>usage.

Actually I was referring to knowledge of neurological functions ... I
dunno ... :/

>> >> Mounted Combat (Combat?)
>> Well, what about using firearms from horseback? I was thinking of
making
>> this a special skill where you use the lower of your Mounted Combat
skill
>> or your combat skill for the attack roll ...

>What if it was a "Modifier Skill" then? Fighting from "Mounted
Position"
>incurs a set of modifiers that would vary by the action of the mount,
it's
>position etcera? The skill would reduce the target modifiers in this
case.

<SNIP as much as possible :)>
>> Actually, I just read that Tracking is included in Tracking ... go
figure
>> :/

>Laugh

Oops That was supposed to say: Actually, I just read that Tracking is
included in Stealth ... go figure :/

>> Yupyup :) Well, I wanted to make a big list-o-skills because a lot of
the
>> special skills should, IMO, be part of general skills (like
locksmithing)
>> and to encourage picking skills other than the ones in BBB ...
sometime
>> after all this I'll make a skill Web fer this too :)

>I do NOT envy you this. I did remake part of the magical skill web area
a
>while ago. It was pretty scarey.
>
>-K

Cool. Yeah, I'm hoping to get as much help as possible :) ... Thanks Btw
:)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 11
From: Grahamdrew <grahamdrew@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!)
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:50:38 -0400
> Isn't there a "Police Procedures" special skill in
> the hands of an NPC somewhere? Sprawl Sites???

I think it was the domain of one of the contacts in SRII. Beat Cop or
something

BTW, what is the BBB. SRII core rules...? I've heard it refered to a
lot.
--
DISCLAIMER: All grammatical and spelling errors are inserted
deliberately to test the software I am developing. In fact,
that is the only reason I am posting. Yeah, that's the ticket!
All my postings are just test data! Yeah!!
Message no. 12
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!)
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:56:43 EDT
In a message dated 5/18/98 8:35:44 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> Cool. Yeah, I'm hoping to get as much help as possible :) ... Thanks Btw
> :)
>
>
No prob, just remember something that Erik seems to continuously forget.
Simplistics and "Game Mechanics" that do not work for explaining "Real Life
Causality". Just as long as you watch those mole hills you create, and are
ready with the appropriate climbing gear should they get out of hand, you'll
be set and ready to enjoy!!!

-K
Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!)
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:36:46 +0100
Grahamdrew said on 21:50/18 May 98...

> > Isn't there a "Police Procedures" special skill in
> > the hands of an NPC somewhere? Sprawl Sites???
>
> I think it was the domain of one of the contacts in SRII. Beat Cop or
> something

Street Cop.

> BTW, what is the BBB. SRII core rules...? I've heard it refered to a
> lot.

Yes, it's the Big Black Book. When used to refer to SRI, it stands for the
Big Blue Book. AFAIK this is all in the FAQ (hint, hint).

BTW, while I'm happy for you that you switched addresses, could you remove
the reply-to field in your mailer? It's overriding that of the list.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Professional cynic, but my heart's not in it.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 14
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!)
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:02:58 -0400
At 09:56 PM 5/18/98 EDT, you wrote:

>No prob, just remember something that Erik seems to continuously forget.
>Simplistics and "Game Mechanics" that do not work for explaining "Real
Life
>Causality". Just as long as you watch those mole hills you create, and are
>ready with the appropriate climbing gear should they get out of hand, you'll
>be set and ready to enjoy!!!


Huh?

I don't get this. Several e-mails last night from Keith and Mike (Airwasp
I believe) popped up hammering me. And instead of getting mad, I'm confused.

I don't recall doing anything in particular to piss either of them off.

But to try to reply to your comment...SR Game Mechanics do not always work
or can be explained well using "Real Life." In those instances, we have to
try to explain things as they are in the "alternate dimension" that is SR.
SR has these wacky uni-directional datalines for example. They don't seem
to make much sense to some people that I would expect to know a thing or
two about that. Maybe they can't really exist, at least not in our world.
So what can we do? We can try to explain it in game terms, or the
alternate physics of the SR world. It's the best we can do as far as I'm
concerned.

Magic is another example. Whether or not you believe it exists in our own
real world, it surely doesn't work the same way here that it does in SR.

And as far as simplicity goes, I like that in a game. Especially as a GM;
SR is a relatively simple game as is, but there are still a lot of things
that I often forget. Life is complex; I want my leisure to be simple.
That's why I avoid games with complicated hit location charts and that sort
of thing. I want to play, not roll dice. If I want to roll dice I'll hit
Las Vegas and play craps. I simply don't like extraneous complexity.

But all in all, I'm confused.

Erik J.


"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Expanded Skill List (Yet *another* pet project :) (Long!), you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!