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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: F-117A Stealth Fighter (Was Re: SR-71 Replacement)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 22:05:21 -0500
On Sun, 18 Jul 1993, Richard Pieri wrote:

> Bingo! Let's put it this way: from everything I've heard about the "Aurora"
> it has a ceiling of over 100,000 feet, can supercruise without afterbuners
> at Mach 3.5+, and has a top speed of over Mach 5. The F-117A has a top
> speed of around Mach 1.5, with a ceiling of around 60,000 feet.

I think your facts are a little incorrect. The F-117 _is NOT_ capable of
supersonic flight. Creating a sonic boom is absolutely counter to the
role of a stealth fighter.

I remember when the YF-22 and YF-23 were going through their paces, it was
such a big deal that these two fighters were capable of level supersonic
flight WITHOUT the use of afterburners. (unfortunately, the chose the
YF-22 in a political decision, even though the YF-23 had a larger payload,
greater range, comparable maneuveability, and looked much kooler. Of
course, the Prototype YF-22 crashed 3 months into Air Force testing *grin*).

{[> Robert A. Hayden ____ hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu <]}
{[> \ /__ hayden@****.cs.mankato.msus.edu <]}
{[> \/ / aq650@****.INS.CWRU.Edu <]}
{[> #include <std_disclaimer.h> \/ <]}
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n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)

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Random Thought:

"...the American dream, in recent years the object of much
denigration even within our own borders, turns out to have been
the world's dream, as well."
-- Louis Rukeyser, on events in Eastern Europe
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Message no. 2
From: Richard Pieri <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: F-117A Stealth Fighter (Was Re: SR-71 Replacement)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1993 23:19:33 EDT
>>>>> "Robert" == Robert A Hayden
<hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu> writes:

> Bingo! Let's put it this way: from everything I've heard about the "Aurora"
> it has a ceiling of over 100,000 feet, can supercruise without afterbuners
> at Mach 3.5+, and has a top speed of over Mach 5. The F-117A has a top
> speed of around Mach 1.5, with a ceiling of around 60,000 feet.

Robert> I think your facts are a little incorrect. The F-117 _is NOT_
Robert> capable of supersonic flight. Creating a sonic boom is absolutely
Robert> counter to the role of a stealth fighter.

It is *capable* of at least Mach 1.2. All of the modern turbofan/turbojet
a/c the USAF flies are capable of supersonic speeds, the notable exception
being the A-10 (which they're dropping--big mistake). Doesn't mean that it
*cruises* at that speed. More like runs away real fast :-).

Robert> I remember when the YF-22 and YF-23 were going through their paces,
Robert> it was such a big deal that these two fighters were capable of
Robert> level supersonic flight WITHOUT the use of afterburners.
Robert> (unfortunately, the chose the YF-22 in a political decision, even
Robert> though the YF-23 had a larger payload, greater range, comparable
Robert> maneuveability, and looked much kooler. Of course, the Prototype
Robert> YF-22 crashed 3 months into Air Force testing *grin*).

The F-22 does have a few good points. It *is* smaller, which means a
smaller visual and radar signature--it has a smaller radar signature anyway
(ie, better stealth characteristics). It also comes with a more reliable
engine, and has a slightly more rugged avionics suite. You do have to
remember the role the a/c is being purchased for (yes, political
decisions). In a cold-war era, the YF-23 would have been better as a combat
a/c; in a "kinder and gentler world," the F-22 makes a better interdiction
a/c than the YF-23 would.

It's kind of the opposite to the YF-16 beating out the YF-20. The YF-20 is
overall a superior a/c, as a lightweight interceptor. The USAF really
wanted a medium weight air superiority fighter, and they got one.
Eventually :-) (if you don't know about the smiley, read up on the 140+
F-16A crashes--and how the USAF says it's the safest fighter in the world).

Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat
PGP Public Key Block available upon request Ask about rat-pgp.el v1.6
||||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |||||
The best steel goes through the fire/And you seem to burn
The dead man's always a liar/Look out, there's another one learning.
--Dio, Hide in the Rainbow
Message no. 3
From: "Dark Thought Publications." <JEK5313@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: F-117A Stealth Fighter (Was Re: SR-71 Replacement)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 01:15:31 -0500
]I remember when the YF-22 and YF-23 were going through their paces, it was
]such a big deal that these two fighters were capable of level supersonic
]flight WITHOUT the use of afterburners. (unfortunately, the chose the
]YF-22 in a political decision, even though the YF-23 had a larger payload,
]greater range, comparable maneuveability, and looked much kooler. Of
]course, the Prototype YF-22 crashed 3 months into Air Force testing *grin*).


Yah. Hey, watch it wit de cracks, mon. Me pseudo-grandada was inta dat
project before'n he retired. Got a scale demo model to prove it.


--Flare <NULLSIG COURTESY OF DOOM>

Dark Thought Publications & Doom Technologies, Inc.
>>> Working on solutions best left in the dark.

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