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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: The Reverend <MDB0213@*****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 01:18:05 -0500
]SHADOWRN:
] It would be posted probably bi-weekly.

How about this instead: is there any way to have the Listserver mail a copy of
the FAQ whenever someone joins? This way, I don't have to see the *&^% thing
every couple of weeks, and it insures that newbies know what's going on to
begin with.

And remember kids: send to MDB0213@******.TAMU.EDU, NOT HERE!!! Despite what
some people (ahem) may think, my quota is not endless. On UNIX, however, it's
close enough (hint: I have more LEFT on my EUNUCHS account than I originally
did on the VAX!!!). So please mail that other address, as opposed to just
replying to it.

Thanks, Rev
---
The Reverend "They called me the Reverend when I entered the church unstained"
Fear the Information Revolution...for it has reached the hands of the strange.
PGP 2.2 Public Key Block available upon request
Message no. 2
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 01:25:42 -0500
On Wed, 13 Oct 1993, The Reverend wrote:

> ]SHADOWRN:
> ] It would be posted probably bi-weekly.
>
> How about this instead: is there any way to have the Listserver mail a copy of
> the FAQ whenever someone joins? This way, I don't have to see the *&^% thing
> every couple of weeks, and it insures that newbies know what's going on to
> begin with.

Yes and no.

In theory, that intro file you get when you subscribe can be changed to
the FAQ. But this is something that the HEARN lords would ahve to do,
and it involves taking and resetting a whole bunch of files from the
default fill-in-the-blank one you get, to a special 'for one list ownly'
file and is essentially a major headache.

Instead, it is better to periodically post the file to the list and let
everyone deal with having to find the delete key. At least easier on me
and the HEARN lords. And with a good filter program (available on most
unix systems running elm), you could sort by subject and have it dump
that posting (sounds like something to put in the FAQ :)

{[> Robert A. Hayden ____ <[} Question Authority
{[> \ /__ <]} -=-=-
{[> aq650@****.INS.CWRU.Edu \/ / <]} Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key
{[> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu \/ <]} Finger for Geek Code Info
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Message no. 3
From: David M Girardot <dmg@**********.IO.COM>
Subject: FAQ
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 17:14:02 -0600
... in reference to the "Cost Quest." msg and the various responses; this
ought to be in the FAQ if it isn't there already. In case anybody cares;
I had most recently been using the "cheaper" method ... but I had been
limiting the Shadowtech stuff in other ways. Forced a limit of Body Index
plus Essence Costs <= 6.0 (No, I didn't make Bioware cost Essence).

Does anyone have any Shadowrun character sheets in ASCII or Word-Processor
(preferably in WP 5.1) format? I've seen the PS sheets, but that's not quite
what I want.

--David

--<dmg@**.com>---<dmg5@******.edu>---<Illuminati Online!>--
----<Easton,Pa>---<Ed Tech: Lehigh University>---<Fnord>---
---------------------[ David M. Girardot ]-----------------
Message no. 4
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 17:44:09 -0600
On Tue, 11 Jan 1994, David M Girardot wrote:

> ... in reference to the "Cost Quest." msg and the various responses; this
> ought to be in the FAQ if it isn't there already. In case anybody cares;
> I had most recently been using the "cheaper" method ... but I had been
> limiting the Shadowtech stuff in other ways. Forced a limit of Body Index
> plus Essence Costs <= 6.0 (No, I didn't make Bioware cost Essence).

Dave, please read the FAQ again. It says that the FAQ pertains
specifically to the list, not to the game itself, espicially since the
game is a list of guidelines. There is a ShadowRun FAQ available
periodically on rec.games.frp.cyber.



____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> To flame me, log on to ICBMnet and
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W
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Message no. 5
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 17:58:06 -0600
>... in reference to the "Cost Quest." msg and the various responses; this
>ought to be in the FAQ if it isn't there already.

Why? IMHO the FAQ is for this list, and while the list covers Shadowrun the
purpose of the FAQ is *not* to cover all the errata and quirks of Shadowrun.
With 50-100K of errata so far, that would be impractical anyway.

A better option would be to mention an FTP sites (which the FAQ already does)
where such information is available.


J Roberson
Message no. 6
From: Fro <fro@***.ab.ca>
Subject: FAQ
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 16:16:39 -0600
I sent this out once, and never recieved it, so if you did, very sorry.

Helllooooo???? I have only 5 replies for the 'Most annoying and
stupid things/questions you can do on this list' FAQ (working title only ;)
I did a Majordomo list command, there are tons of people on the
list!!! i can't write an FAQ with 5 peoples votes!. But, heres what has
gotton votes sofar:
Test, is the list working? 1 vote
Bioware/body index/magic rating 2 votes
Grounding through quickening 3 votes
Manipulation spells through astral space 1 vote
Grounding through a spell 2 votes
Good times virus 2 votes
Anyone on FASA on the list? 1 vote
Shouldn't there be cyberpsychosis? 1 vote
Do explosive rounds really expload? 1 vote
Can you do this (rule mongers) 1 vote
Can i take Shadowtalk as fact? 1 vote

so far there are 11 topics..I want more input, because 5 people is not a
good portion of the list. Also, some suggestions are better in the other
parts of the FAQ, such as I do believe Faux Pas said something about turning
off RCPT's, but i don't remember his *exact* wording. ;)

Adam Jury
Message no. 7
From: Matti Aistrich <aistrich@********.hkkk.fi>
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 08:51:54 +0300 (EET DST)
On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, Fro wrote:

> Helllooooo???? I have only 5 replies for the 'Most annoying and
> stupid things/questions you can do on this list' FAQ (working title only ;)

Remember these should also include some answers & discussion, so
newcomers will know why they shouldn't ask these things.

Also, I'd like to see "How stimpatches really work", as no-one was able
to come up with any definitive reasoning to their stance on it (one-shot
or applicable to damage occuring later on as well).

---------------------------------------------
: Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich :
: only just : :
: good enough! : aistrich@********.hkkk.fi :
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Message no. 8
From: Tom Pendergrast <pendergr@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 00:07:51 -0700 (PDT)
> Also, I'd like to see "How stimpatches really work", as no-one was able
> to come up with any definitive reasoning to their stance on it (one-shot
> or applicable to damage occuring later on as well).

((AFAIK, they only remove damage that you have already taken.))
---Tom---
Message no. 9
From: Matti Aistrich <aistrich@********.hkkk.fi>
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 11:22:17 +0300 (EET DST)
On Fri, 26 Apr 1996, Tom Pendergrast wrote:

> > Also, I'd like to see "How stimpatches really work", as no-one was
able
> > to come up with any definitive reasoning to their stance on it (one-shot
> > or applicable to damage occuring later on as well).
>
> ((AFAIK, they only remove damage that you have already taken.))
> ---Tom---

The whole idea here was to avoid having this conversation again...

---------------------------------------------
: Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich :
: only just : :
: good enough! : aistrich@********.hkkk.fi :
---------------------------------------------
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Message no. 10
From: "Damion Milliken" <dam01@***.edu.au>
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 22:57:21 +1000 (EST)
Fro writes:

> Helllooooo???? I have only 5 replies for the 'Most annoying and
> stupid things/questions you can do on this list' FAQ (working title only ;)

Just a note on these things: I hope you're going to include a decent amount
of material on the issue in your FAQ. Quotes from the most recent (and/or
the best) debate on the issue at hand would be quite appropriate.
Otherwise, I feel that all you'll achieve is that every newbie who reads the
list of "things forbidden to speak of" will wonder why on earth <insert
issue here> bugs people so damn much, and will promptly ask about
it...sparking off a whole new debate on the subject again. Not to mention
that by simply sending this FAQ to each new user, they'll have a ready store
of questions and things to post about right at the onset...and those things
will be things that we'll tear our hair out about hearing yet again.

Also, I feel that such a FAQ should not be a "guide to what not to speak
of", but rather a set of guidelines to help people who are interested in
that topic, and who may wish to discuss it, so that they don't simply rehash
old arguments or make points in favour/against that are silly/worthless or
can easily be countered. I feel that the topics that are going to be
included, although annoying issues that many of us have already seen and
heard before, still have a lot left to be discussed. And a new persons
insight into the topic may be just what is needed. Further, it may well be
that the new person would like, or needs, information on that topic
themselves (say, to counter a munckinous players ideas). Thus I feel that
the topics shouldn't be so much banned, and relegated to a FAQ, as a little
more moderated.

> Test, is the list working? 1 vote

This should go into the main FAQ if you ask me. Something along the lines
of:

Test Messages: Test messages waste everyones time, bandwidth, and of those
of us who pay for our 'net access, money. If you wish to
know if you are receiving messages from the list, simply
wait a few hours. The list has a very high turnover
(upwards of 30 messages a day, somtimes over 100), so it
should become blantatly obvious as to whether you are
getting the lists messages or not after a few hours. If you
wish to test _your_ capabilities to post to the list, then
just wait until you have something constructive to say, and
find out then. Everyone will be saved much hassle, and
people may even appreciate it and like you a little more.

> Bioware/body index/magic rating 2 votes
> Grounding through quickening 3 votes
> Manipulation spells through astral space 1 vote
> Grounding through a spell 2 votes
> Shouldn't there be cyberpsychosis? 1 vote

You'll need an awful lot of material to adequately cover these ones.

> Good times virus 2 votes

This should also go into the main FAQ.

> Anyone on FASA on the list? 1 vote

As should this, something like:

Official FASA reps: At this time, there are NO official reps from FASA
on the list. (If you _are_ an official FASA person,
then please tell us, we'd love to know.) There are,
however, several people who've written offical (and
unofficial) modules, sourcebooks and novels on the
list. There are also many listmembers who are in
fairly regular contact with official FASA reps. For
further information, see the FASA email addresses
below.

> Do explosive rounds really expload? 1 vote

While this is not exactly a question that is completely on topic, I still
feel it is entirely valid. RL ammunitions and their effects are fair game
for discussion if you ask me. Although pointers to online data (such as the
various SR ammo compilations and rules floating around on peoples WWW sites)
might save quite a bit of repitition of questions.

> Can you do this (rule mongers) 1 vote

What is wrong with a question like this at all? I take it that the
objection is to rule mongering, powergaming and munchkinism? Well, I'd like
to point out that the SR rules are far from simple, and far from neatly
organised and indexed. Unless you have a completely photographic memory,
you can't hope to remember all the rules fully. Also, often the questions
about "is this possible" come from people who are seeking to overrule or
avoid a players nefarious and munchkinous scheme that is not actually
possible. Or they stem from ingenious player ideas and schemes that are
simply not covered well in the rules. I think rules discussions are half of
what this list is about, and by no means should be excluded.

> Can i take Shadowtalk as fact? 1 vote

I really think that the answer to this lies in the introduction to nearly
all SR books that contain shadowtalk, and goes something like:

As usual, the various comments posted by members of the shadow
community are there for the GM to do with as he pleases. They may be
true, they may be false, they may be outright lies and fabrications.

Take a look in your SR books, it's in there somewhere, and it basically says
something akin to that.

> so far there are 11 topics..I want more input, because 5 people is not a
> good portion of the list.

OK, my take on this FAQ is that it should be a compilation of very
frequently asked SR related questions (at least on this list). It shouldn't
neccesarily be a list of things people hate to read. But it should give
enough material and information so that someone who may have been going to
ask a question about a particularly hot topic that often sparks off huge
debates might read this and find their answer without generating a 3 week
600 message discussion on the topic that just rehashes old arguments.

I'd suggest that either the people submitting the ideas, or the compiler
himself would need to go through the past logs and find appropriate
information to include so that a decent, balanced argument can be included
on topics that are polar. This might seem like a lot of work, but I don't
think the FAQ will be worth crap if it isn't decently put together.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au

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Message no. 11
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:58:06 -0600 (MDT)
Damion Milliken wrote:
|
|Fro writes:
|
|[snip] request for more participation concerning the FAQ.
|
|> Good times virus 2 votes
|
|This should also go into the main FAQ.

And other related items like the Cookie Recipe.

Other than that I agree with what Damion said.

Also, you might do a basic FAQ and post it to the list. Then wait for the
criticism to role in and that should provide you with more than enough
information to fill it out.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 12
From: "Sedah Drol" <CCRODRIG@****.indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 01:17:44 EST
> Good times virus 2 votes
I think we should tell them that the good times virus actually does
exist. Afterall it was designed to scare newbies. And when people
ask what it does we should send them a reply (personally) and tell
them that it does mean nasty stuff, make it up as you go on. It
would be neat to see the chaos that rises from it. Just a thought.

----Sedah Drol
This is a test.....
For the next several lines there will be a test signature.
If this were an actual .sig it would be proceeded with:
a Geek Code script
a Home Page
a quote
and any other information I wish to disclose.
Repeat this was only a test....
Message no. 13
From: seb@***.ripco.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 01:31:21 -0500 (CDT)
>
> > Good times virus 2 votes
> I think we should tell them that the good times virus actually does
> exist. Afterall it was designed to scare newbies. And when people
> ask what it does we should send them a reply (personally) and tell
> them that it does mean nasty stuff, make it up as you go on. It
> would be neat to see the chaos that rises from it. Just a thought.

Fine, AS LONG AS IT IS NOY DONE ON THIS LIST- i hate seeing computer shit on
this list- there is lots of other places to go for that, it is net ubiquitous.
>
> ----Sedah Drol
> This is a test.....
> For the next several lines there will be a test signature.
> If this were an actual .sig it would be proceeded with:
> a Geek Code script
> a Home Page
> a quote
> and any other information I wish to disclose.
> Repeat this was only a test....
>


--
--Seb
Message no. 14
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 12:08:05 +0100 (BST)
|
|> Good times virus 2 votes
|I think we should tell them that the good times virus actually does
|exist. Afterall it was designed to scare newbies. And when people
|ask what it does we should send them a reply (personally) and tell
|them that it does mean nasty stuff, make it up as you go on. It
|would be neat to see the chaos that rises from it. Just a thought.

Why, you evil, nasty little man, you!

I *LIKE IT!!!!

Brilliant idea......
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crack in |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant boulder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal subjects in:-|to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/FA>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can still say FUCK! Americans can't|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 15
From: Matti Aistrich <aistrich@********.hkkk.fi>
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 14:57:00 +0300 (EET DST)
On Fri, 26 Apr 1996, Damion Milliken wrote:

> > Helllooooo???? I have only 5 replies for the 'Most annoying and
> > stupid things/questions you can do on this list' FAQ (working title only ;)
>
> Just a note on these things: I hope you're going to include a decent amount
> of material on the issue in your FAQ. Quotes from the most recent (and/or
> the best) debate on the issue at hand would be quite appropriate.
>
> Also, I feel that such a FAQ should not be a "guide to what not to speak
> of", but rather a set of guidelines to help people who are interested in
> that topic, and who may wish to discuss it, so that they don't simply rehash
> old arguments or make points in favour/against that are silly/worthless or
> can easily be countered. I feel that the topics that are going to be
> included, although annoying issues that many of us have already seen and
> heard before, still have a lot left to be discussed. And a new persons
> insight into the topic may be just what is needed. Further, it may well be
>
> OK, my take on this FAQ is that it should be a compilation of very
> frequently asked SR related questions (at least on this list). It shouldn't
> neccesarily be a list of things people hate to read. But it should give


While I agree with what you've said above, my view of the things that
would be included in this FAQ seems to be somewhat different from yours
and Fro's. I think it will be too much work to start including things
based on the criterium that they have been already extensively discussed
-- and it would be counter-productive as well, as you point out above.

The point IMHO is to put in things where no resolution has been achieved
and it can be reasonably expected that no resolution can be achieved.
Where there is no other option than to wait for a comment from FASA (much
as in the case of grounding through quickened spells). So the FAQ would
have the valid points on both sides of the argument, leaving the reader
(=new subscriber) to make the decision on how to play it in his/her game,
so the whole list would not be forced to go through it all again. If the
new subscriber has something truly important to add, he/she can go ahead,
but has been duly warned.

AND the FAQ would also function as a list of questions we'd appreciate
FASA answering once they get the time.

---------------------------------------------
: Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich :
: only just : :
: good enough! : aistrich@********.hkkk.fi :
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Message no. 16
From: fro@***.ab.ca (Richard Jury)
Subject: FAQ
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 15:55:57 -0600
**********This line here so my first tab doesn't bugger it up***********

Ah, there we go, a lovely tabbed paragraph :) Anyways, going back
and reading some of the last few days mail, I'm struck by two things:
1: This list is very busy!!
2: People want the FAQ rewritten. Thats my job..sooooo...I'm doing
it right now. Anything you want added/deleted/changed, please email me and
I'll work on it. Send it right to me <fro@***.ab.ca> and please put FAQ
somewhere in the subject line.

Fro
Message no. 17
From: Walker of Shadows <OABBrother@***.COM>
Subject: FAQ
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:29:47 -0400
Hey, Does anyone out there have the FAQ handy that they can put in their
mailer? I would really appriciate a copy of it...I need to leave the list.
Thanks!
Message no. 18
From: Fredrik Lindblom <fredrik.lindblom@******.KALMAR.SE>
Subject: FAQ?
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 14:07:24 +0100
Hoi!

Been away from this list for... uhm... what can it be? Two years or so,
now? (So long ago! I even used a _handle_ back then! Yes, I'm getting
old...) Re-subscribed last friday, 'coz I got a new job that allows for a
lot of mail-reading during work hours (ehm, what are YOU doing on this
list, boss? :-)... I noticed that the FAQ is not on J.D. Falks homepage
(though there is a link to it) anymore, so where is it? Don't want to walk
in and bring up a lot of things that produce the answer "FAQ you!" or maybe
provokes people to do things with wet towels...

Feels good to be back.

Later,

FL
Message no. 19
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: FAQ?
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 13:34:18 -0800
> Been away from this list for... uhm... what can it be? Two years or so,
> now? (So long ago! I even used a _handle_ back then! Yes, I'm getting
> old...) Re-subscribed last friday, 'coz I got a new job that allows for a
> lot of mail-reading during work hours (ehm, what are YOU doing on this
> list, boss? :-)... I noticed that the FAQ is not on J.D. Falks homepage
> (though there is a link to it) anymore, so where is it? Don't want to walk
> in and bring up a lot of things that produce the answer "FAQ you!" or maybe
> provokes people to do things with wet towels...

Your boss is on the list?

*grin*

The FAQ is located at the link in my .sig. There's been a few changes since
you were last on the list. ;)

--

Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"I'd rather have a face people fear." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
FAQ Flunky of the SRcard and ShadowRN Mailing Lists
http://coastnet.com/~dvixen/shadowrn/srnfaq1.html <= Get it. Memorize!
Required Reading => http://coastnet.com/~dvixen/srtcg/tcgfaq1.html
Message no. 20
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: FAQ?
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 14:27:04 +0000
And verily, did Fredrik Lindblom hastily scribble thusly...
|in and bring up a lot of things that produce the answer "FAQ you!" or maybe
|provokes people to do things with wet towels...

We've moved on from wet towels...
Now we use wet carp....

JD Falk hasn't been subscribed now for about a year...
Neither has Rob Hayden... (More like 1.5 years for him)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about FAQ, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!