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Message no. 1
From: Michael Orion Jackson <orion@****.CC.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: FASA & errors ;^)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:02:32 -0500
FASA has a long history of errors in their works. I don't let it
bother me, because I still think their books are pretty good. But still,
sometimes I think that if they do have editors, they are "differently
abled" in the sight category and no one bothers to read to them... Not
only do they suffer from outright typos and formatting errors (tables in
particular seem to be beyond their grasp sometimes; cf. the repair table
in 1st ed. Mechwarrior), but occasionally whole books just seem like they
were written on the fly and just aren't complete in some way (to continue
the Mechwarrior example, 2nd edition just seemed like it was missing
important and fairly basic things (like a treatment of body armor re:
what it's numerical rating was and how much it cost in various forms
IIRC)). Maybe it's the desire to fit everything into the Magical 120 Page
Limit (I swear it seems as though there is an unwritten rule on the wall
somewhere at FASA HQ that Every Sourcebook Must Be 120 Pages And Cost 18
Dollars(US).). Oh well, I still think they are, on the whole, one of the
best companies out there in terms of consistently good product. SR is of
course excellent on the whole, and I still harbor an affection from the
Renegade Legion line, as well as Battletech, even though it has been a
while since I've played BT...


*****************Michael Orion Jackson******************
***********TAMS Class of 96/UT Class of 2000************
*********************Random Quote:**********************
*The spider's native name is "ass-biter-surprise,"sir..*
********************************************************
Message no. 2
From: Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA & errors ;^)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:05:20 -0400
> FASA has a long history of errors in their works. I don't let it
>bother me, because I still think their books are pretty good. But still,
>sometimes I think that if they do have editors, they are "differently
>abled" in the sight category and no one bothers to read to them... Not
>only do they suffer from outright typos and formatting errors (tables in
>particular seem to be beyond their grasp sometimes; cf. the repair table
>in 1st ed. Mechwarrior), but occasionally whole books just seem like they
>were written on the fly and just aren't complete in some way (to continue
>the Mechwarrior example, 2nd edition just seemed like it was missing
>important and fairly basic things (like a treatment of body armor re:
>what it's numerical rating was and how much it cost in various forms
>IIRC)). Maybe it's the desire to fit everything into the Magical 120 Page
>Limit (I swear it seems as though there is an unwritten rule on the wall
>somewhere at FASA HQ that Every Sourcebook Must Be 120 Pages And Cost 18
>Dollars(US).). Oh well, I still think they are, on the whole, one of the
>best companies out there in terms of consistently good product. SR is of
>course excellent on the whole, and I still harbor an affection from the
>Renegade Legion line, as well as Battletech, even though it has been a
>while since I've played BT...
>

Boy you touched on a raw nerve here. I used to be a big fan of
Battletech (it's what got me into Shadowrun) but Mechwarrior 2 ended it
for me. It was without exception the WORST role playing system ever made.
Mechwarrior 1 had it's problems and most of them centered around the game
being too oriented towards Mechwarriors and especially Military ones (as
opposed to Mercs and The Glamour boys on Solaris) with virtually no info
on how to play other types of characters and very little gear not
oriented towards fighting in a Mech or the Infantry. What the game needed
to focus on was Non Mech jock types, I mean lets face it how many
"adventures" are soldiers going to get into outside of battle. So they
publish Mechwarrior 2 and what do they do basically focus even more on
military types and change the character creation and advancement system.
The character advancement system was actually pretty good, too bad it
wasn't necessary because it was possable to create a character from the
start who was an expert in 2 areas or master in one unless you started
without a mech then you got double that. All this with Battletech's poor
editing which makes Shadowrun look perfect, I mean we're talking about a
line where it took something like 7 editions to get the addition mistakes
worked out of the 3025 technical manual. The result, I don't play
Mechwarrior anymore and only play Battletech once a year or so, I
certainly don't buy anything for that line anymore. I used to buy
everything so they have probably lost out on about 1 to 2 thousand in
sales from just me (not to mention the other players I played with that
don't anymore for the same reason) over the last 5 years. Shadowrun has
it's editing problems and it's not the typo's that bother me (although a
spell checker works wonders to correct this problem) it's the errors in
consistancy but they can't hold a candle to Battletech's of which my
favorite is that using their own game mechanics and published histories
and force levels the Clans would have lasted about 6 to 9 months against
the Inner Sphere before they were totally overrun. It isn't even
necessary to give the Inner Sphere advanced Tech just a little brains
plus the judicous use of infantry (which the clans don't use) and
Artillery (ditto) and the Clan armies would have been crushed. The point?
well as bad as Shadowrun editing is it could always be worse and at least
the line developer listens to our suggestions.

Steve
Message no. 3
From: Mike Elkins <Mike_Elkins@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA & errors ;^)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:01:23 -0400
Well, FASA could use a little improvement in the proofreading department,
but they are much more proffesional about quality then some other
companies. I haven't bought anything from Iron Crown Enterprises in years
(so maybe they've improved) because the editing quality was stuck at the
Fanzine level (apologies to Fanzine editors in my current audience). Truly
abysmal. I think standards have been improving in the gaming industry, and
I think FASA is above average, but clearly there is little excuse for "see
page xxx"s and examples with bad elementary school math.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 4
From: Shaun Gilroy <shaung@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA & errors ;^)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:33:53 -0400
At 11:01 AM 10/14/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, FASA could use a little improvement in the proofreading department,
>but they are much more proffesional about quality then some other
>companies. I haven't bought anything from Iron Crown Enterprises in years
>(so maybe they've improved) because the editing quality was stuck at the
>Fanzine level (apologies to Fanzine editors in my current audience). Truly
>abysmal. I think standards have been improving in the gaming industry, and
>I think FASA is above average, but clearly there is little excuse for "see
>page xxx"s and examples with bad elementary school math.

Really I only consider it to be a problem with their novels. I've seen
glaring typos and verb tenses within the novels that I've read (and I've
only read about 8 of them). The gaming/sourcebook materials don't seem to
face those same problems as often. As a matter of fact, I see SR3 as
pretty-much one of the most smoothly edited game-books that I own (I can
only think of two places where there's a "See pg. XX" out of the hundreds
of cross-references made --Anybody remember Werewolf 1st Ed? gaak!).

It just seems to me that FASAs novels get less editorial attention. I'm
aware that tight deadlines will wreak havoc ony one's grammar, but many of
the problems in the novels appear to be just plain editorial sloppiness.

>Double-Domed Mike

(>)noysh the spoonë bard
-> jack of all trades, master of none. <-
Message no. 5
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA & errors ;^)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:17:25 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 11:01 AM 10/14/98 -0400, Mike wrote:
>I think FASA is above average, but clearly there is little excuse for
"see
>page xxx"s and examples with bad elementary school math.

I've seen p. XX references, and there's even one sourcebook that has a
p. X reference (Bonus Points if you can name which one), but I've
never seen a p. XXX reference. :)
That must be the page with the rules for hard-core players.

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-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 6
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: FASA & errors ;^)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:24:52 -0600
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Paul Gettle wrote:
/
/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
/
/ At 11:01 AM 10/14/98 -0400, Mike wrote:
/ >I think FASA is above average, but clearly there is little excuse for
/ "see
/ >page xxx"s and examples with bad elementary school math.
/
/ I've seen p. XX references, and there's even one sourcebook that has a
/ p. X reference (Bonus Points if you can name which one), but I've
/ never seen a p. XXX reference. :)
/ That must be the page with the rules for hard-core players.

Ooooo. Bad, bad pun. Move a little to your left.. now hold still for
just a sec..


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:)

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm

Further Reading

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.