Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject:	FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:21:04 -0600

Message no. 1 News from the Illuminati:

FASA Corporation, publishers of the Battletech miniatures game and the
Shadowrun RPG, this weekend purchased Ral Partha Miniatures, manufacturers
of historical, fantasy, and science-fiction metal figures, including
several licensed lines based on FASA games.

FASA Marketing Director Rett Kipp told us that consumer-side changes
will be minimal, promising "business as usual" for customers of both
companies. The FASA-licensed miniatures lines, such as the popular
Battletech figures, will continue normally. Lines licensed with other game
publishers (including the long-running Advanced Dungeons & Dragons lines)
will continue to be available, with new licenses negotiated as necessary.
Ral Partha will retain its company name.

Bob Watts, formerly of Heartbreaker Miniatures, has been appointed
manager at Ral Partha Miniatures. Heartbreaker produced the licensed
miniatures for FASA's Earthdawn RPG until January, when Ral Partha acquired
the license.

FASA is developing a new miniatures game to be released in the spring.

-Pyramid
----
-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
Supervisor, Database Preparation
The UnCover Company
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org

From:	Chris <chris_hayes@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:30:46 -0700

Message no. 2 Dave Buehrer
> News from the Illuminati:
>
> FASA Corporation, publishers of the Battletech miniatures game and the
> Shadowrun RPG, this weekend purchased Ral Partha Miniatures, manufacturers
> of historical, fantasy, and science-fiction metal figures, including
> several licensed lines based on FASA games.
>

[Snip other stuff]

I thought FASA was going through some hard times. That's why they got rid
of the Earthdawn line. But here they are buying other companies...Anyone
have the real story on FASA? How are they doing? How do they rank versus
other RPG companies? Just wondering...

Christopher Hayes
"Who put their hoo-hoo dilly in your cha-cha?" - Cartman

From:	"Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:55:13 -0400

Message no. 3 Chris wrote:
> > FASA Corporation, publishers of the Battletech miniatures game and the
> > Shadowrun RPG, this weekend purchased Ral Partha Miniatures,
> manufacturers
> > of historical, fantasy, and science-fiction metal figures, including
> > several licensed lines based on FASA games.
>
> I thought FASA was going through some hard times. That's why they
> got rid
> of the Earthdawn line. But here they are buying other companies...Anyone
>
I thought that they got rid of the ED line because *it* wasn't turning
a profit (or at least, enough of a profit).

> have the real story on FASA? How are they doing? How do they rank versus
> other RPG companies? Just wondering...
>
Well, DP9 is healthy, R. Talsorian is in questionable shape, TSR is
leaning heavily on WOTC (which is doing well). White Wolf recently
laid off a bunch of people, Avalon Hill just got bought out by Hasbro,
Steve Jackson has both hired and fired people in the last couple of
months. FASA's starting up two new game lines (Crimson Skies and their
miniatures game - presumably the reason they bought Ral Partha).

Overall, I'd say FASA isn't doing badly - they seem to be healthy enough
(and smart enough to buy a miniatures company right off the bat, instead
of waiting for several years like GW).

I just wish that they'd *appear* more active (like updating their web
page on a better than bi-monthly basis!). In that press release, I
found out for the first time that FASA isn't planning on releasing the
minis line until spring. Why can't they put that on their web page?
Why won't they update the Upcoming Releases? When are they releasing
Crimson Skies? They've improved their web page design, but it still
needs attention...

James Ojaste

From:	Rick J Federle <griffinhq@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:04:44 -0400

Message no. 4 On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:21:04 -0600 David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG> writes:
>News from the Illuminati:
>
>FASA Corporation, publishers of the Battletech miniatures game and
>the
>Shadowrun RPG, this weekend purchased Ral Partha Miniatures,
>manufacturers
>of historical, fantasy, and science-fiction metal figures, including
>several licensed lines based on FASA games.
>
I said this was true a week or two ago, when I found out from Partha.
(Does no one listen to me?)
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From:	Iridios <iridios@*********.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:11:09 -0400

Message no. 5 Chris wrote:
>
> Dave Buehrer
> > News from the Illuminati:
> >
> > FASA Corporation, publishers of the Battletech miniatures game and the
> > Shadowrun RPG, this weekend purchased Ral Partha Miniatures, manufacturers
> > of historical, fantasy, and science-fiction metal figures, including
> > several licensed lines based on FASA games.
> >
>
> [Snip other stuff]
>
> I thought FASA was going through some hard times. That's why they got rid
> of the Earthdawn line. But here they are buying other companies...Anyone
> have the real story on FASA?

It sounds like smart thinking to me. Yes they may have been going
through some hard times, so they dropped the products and services
that aren't living up to their potential and buy a company that not
only holds the miniatures liscences for their games (and are probably
profitable) but holds the liscences for other games (these lines are
probably just as profitable). By buying a known relatively stable
income source, they should be able to stave off further decay in their
economic situation.

--
Iridios
iridios@*********.com
ICQ UIN:6629224
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9489

-------Begin Geek Code Block------
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PE Y+ !PGP>++ t++@ 5+ X++@ R++@ tv
b+ DI++ !D G e+@>++++ h--- r+++ y+++
-------End Geek Code Block--------

From:	"Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:12:54 -0400

Message no. 6 Rick J Federle wrote:
> >News from the Illuminati:
> >
> >FASA Corporation, publishers of the Battletech miniatures game and
> >the
> >Shadowrun RPG, this weekend purchased Ral Partha Miniatures,
[snip]
> I said this was true a week or two ago, when I found out from
> Partha.
> (Does no one listen to me?)
>
I thought that you said that you'd heard a rumour? In any case, yes I
listened. First off, Pyramid mentioned that the deal was only concluded
last weekend (after your post), and it included information that FASA's
minis line is due out in the spring... :-)

James Ojaste

From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:15:44 -0600

Message no. 7 For the mere cost of a Thaum, Rick J Federle wrote:
/
/ On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:21:04 -0600 David Buehrer
/ <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG> writes:
/ >
/ >FASA Corporation, publishers of the Battletech miniatures game and
/ >the
/ >Shadowrun RPG, this weekend purchased Ral Partha Miniatures,
/ >manufacturers
/ >of historical, fantasy, and science-fiction metal figures, including
/ >several licensed lines based on FASA games.
/ >
/ I said this was true a week or two ago, when I found out from Partha.
/ (Does no one listen to me?)

I must've gotten burried in the bandwidth, cuz I missed it. There've
been times when I sent something to the list and didn't get a response,
and a few weeks later somebody duplicated me and the response was
high. It happens :)

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm

From:	Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:18:19 -0400

Message no. 8 At 10:30 AM 9/30/98 -0700, you wrote:

>> FASA Corporation, publishers of the Battletech miniatures game and the
>> Shadowrun RPG, this weekend purchased Ral Partha Miniatures, manufacturers
>> of historical, fantasy, and science-fiction metal figures, including
>> several licensed lines based on FASA games.
>
> I thought FASA was going through some hard times. That's why they got rid
>of the Earthdawn line. But here they are buying other companies...Anyone
>have the real story on FASA? How are they doing? How do they rank versus
>other RPG companies? Just wondering...

Part of the reason, I understand, that Earthdawn is being sold is because
it just wasn't making enough profit for them. Too much expenditure, too
little return on that expenditure.

But some companies, when in trouble, *do* try and buy other companies to
try and buoy themselves. And other companies, who aren't flush with cash,
will tighten the belt (and sometimes hard) in preparation for the purchase
of another company. A previous employer did something like this; lots of
people were "let go" (including myself it turns out) partially to make sure
they could afford the new company. The hope is that the company as a whole
will end up growing even bigger and better.

I figure the purchase of Ral Partha fits into several strategies. One,
miniatures seem to do well, and Ral Partha's been around forever and are
well respected (hence no name change). This funnels additional funding to
FASA.

FASA also seems to be doing all sorts of things to expand the last several
years, licensing Battletech for those toys and the cartoon, the whole
Virtual World thing, attempts at movies, and of course, FASA Interactive.
This purchase further fits into this apparent grand plan.

This also give FASA additional prestige and power within the industry.

In addition, remember that Carniverse is the upcoming miniatures game. Now
FASA has it's own pet company to make those minis. They now control that
channel.

So FASA was probably in a general belt-tightening mode anyway, if for no
other reason than as protection against what has happened to other gaming
companies in recent years. They probably further tightened the belt in
preparation for the purchase of Ral Partha. Even if it was purchased
purely via the funds from a bank loan, that's extra capitol that has to be
spent to pay it off, which means operating costs went up, which certainly
cuts into the bottom line and necessitates tightening that proverbial belt.

I'd say that at the top of the heap is Wizards of the Coast (i.e. TSR), the
folks from White Wolf and then FASA. None of them are likely to go under
anytime soon, but they do also all have their share of problems.

Erik J.

http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World

From:	Rick J Federle <griffinhq@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:27:33 -0400

Message no. 9 On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:12:54 -0400 "Ojaste,James [NCR]"
<James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA> writes:
>Rick J Federle wrote:
>> >News from the Illuminati:
>> >
>> >FASA Corporation, publishers of the Battletech miniatures game and
>> >the
>> >Shadowrun RPG, this weekend purchased Ral Partha Miniatures,
>[snip]
>> I said this was true a week or two ago, when I found out
>from
>> Partha.
>> (Does no one listen to me?)
>>
>I thought that you said that you'd heard a rumour? In any case, yes
>I
>listened. First off, Pyramid mentioned that the deal was only
>concluded
>last weekend (after your post), and it included information that
>FASA's
>minis line is due out in the spring... :-)
>
Okay, let me (try) to explain. A good friend of mine (who also games
SR with me) is one of the department heads down at Partha.(I live within
easy driving distance.) Several months ago he told me that Partha might
be bought out by FASA. Several weeks ago when I was down there, I
overhead a couple of people talking about the afforementioned deal.
About a week and a half ago I was told that FASA was buying Partha. And
the company formally changed hands last Friday.
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From:	"Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:39:25 -0400

Message no. 10 Erik Jameson wrote:
> I figure the purchase of Ral Partha fits into several strategies. One,
> miniatures seem to do well, and Ral Partha's been around forever and are
> well respected (hence no name change). This funnels additional funding to
> FASA.
[snip]
> In addition, remember that Carniverse is the upcoming miniatures game.
> Now
> FASA has it's own pet company to make those minis. They now control that
> channel.
>
Carniverse! Cool name! Why can't FASA even release tiny scraps of
information like this? IMO, that's FASA's biggest failing - I don't
have time to go traveling from convention to convention so I get all
my gaming news/info off the internet and FASA's internet presence
is just barely present.

Instead of just complaining, this is what I'd like:
1) regular updates (once a week would do, more would be better)
2) current release schedule - if a game delivery slips even one day,
I'd like to know about it
3) GET THE ERRATA ONLINE! We've only been waiting how many months?
4) useful stuff (online character sheets, NPCs, maps, mini-adventures,
stocks, newspaper headlines)
5) cool stuff (wallpaper, links, etc)

> I'd say that at the top of the heap is Wizards of the Coast (i.e. TSR),
> the
> folks from White Wolf and then FASA. None of them are likely to go under
> anytime soon, but they do also all have their share of problems.
>
I'd say about half of the gaming companies are OK, the other half are
in various degrees of struggle. But then the global market is in a
slump, so...

James Ojaste

From:	Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:23:26 -0400

Message no. 11 At 10:30 AM 9-30-98 -0700, you wrote:
>
> I thought FASA was going through some hard times. That's why they
got rid
>of the Earthdawn line. But here they are buying other companies...Anyone
>have the real story on FASA? How are they doing? How do they rank versus
>other RPG companies? Just wondering...
>
>Christopher Hayes

<rumor mode>
I've heard that FASA's Interactive division is (how to put this
delicately?) sucking wind, and the FASA bigwigs may face a tough choice in
the next year. Cut it loose, or watch it drag down the whole company.
(Legend has it that FASA Interactive is where SR developers go when they
evolve into a higher lifeform. :) ) ED got cut simply because it never was
a big seller, and FASA couldn't afford to support it anymore, despite the
loyalty of its following. I've also heard that the SRTCG isn't doing as
well as they could wish. Basically, it sounds like a case of too much
expansion too quickly, and an overreliance on the strength of the BT and SR
licenses.
</rumor mode>

Note that the above is all rumor, innuendo, and hearsay that I've picked up
from various sources. I do trust those sources (enough to hang my butt out
on the list), but not enough to state the above as even informed opinion.
You have been warned.

Starjammer | Una salus victus nullam sperare salutem.
starjammer@**********.com | "The one hope of the doomed is not to hope
Marietta, GA | for safety." --Virgil, The Aeneid

From:	"Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:55:50 -0400

Message no. 12 Starjammer wrote:
> <rumor mode>
> I've heard that FASA's Interactive division is (how to put this
> delicately?) sucking wind, and the FASA bigwigs may face a tough choice in
> the next year. Cut it loose, or watch it drag down the whole company.
>
They shouldn't have cut Activision out of MW3... On the other hand,
that action introduced me to Heavy Gear so I guess I shouldn't be
upset. :-)

> loyalty of its following. I've also heard that the SRTCG isn't doing as
> well as they could wish. Basically, it sounds like a case of too much
> expansion too quickly, and an overreliance on the strength of the BT and
> SR
> licenses.
> </rumor mode>
>
Well, CCGs depend on expansion(s). When you realize that the 2nd SRTCG
expansion was due to be released in June and it's going to be October
tomorrow... Releasing things on time (or *gasp* ahead of schedule!)
will tend to endear people to the company. Constantly slipping ship
dates only annoy people. Frequent and fast, that's how I like it. :-)

James Ojaste

From:	Shaun Gilroy <shaung@**********.NET>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:59:34 -0400

Message no. 13 At 02:39 PM 9/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Carniverse! Cool name! Why can't FASA even release tiny scraps of
>information like this? IMO, that's FASA's biggest failing - I don't
>have time to go traveling from convention to convention so I get all
>my gaming news/info off the internet and FASA's internet presence
>is just barely present.

<rant!>
This is an issue of marketing. Where's the hype? If I don't know
something is coming, I won't save my pennies for it. If I don't know
something has been released (finally) I won't go buy it (or order it
through my local hobby shop, like I normally have to).

If I hadn't actively watched FASA's comings and goings as well as watched
things like this list, I probably still wouldn't even know there was a SR3.

Normally, I'm usually having to keep close tabs on what's going on, or I
miss big things completely. So what about the gamers who don't subscribe
to e-lists? What about the players who can't visit fasa's website on a
regular basis?

They don't buy, that's what!
</rant!>

>Instead of just complaining, this is what I'd like:
>1) regular updates (once a week would do, more would be better)
>2) current release schedule - if a game delivery slips even one day,
>I'd like to know about it
>3) GET THE ERRATA ONLINE! We've only been waiting how many months?
>4) useful stuff (online character sheets, NPCs, maps, mini-adventures,
>stocks, newspaper headlines)
>5) cool stuff (wallpaper, links, etc)

<rant more!>
White-Wolf's web-site is pretty successful because it implements many of
these things. The site's not incredibly pretty, and as slow as, well, slow
things, but you have a reason to visit it regularly.

I visit FASA's site at least twice a week in hopes of seeing something new
or seeing if the release schedule has been revised. Usually, I'm wasting
my time.
</rant more!>

(>)noysh the spoonë bard
-> jack of all trades, master of none. <-

From:	Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:10:47 -0400

Message no. 14 I'd have to say that the company with the best presence on the web is Steve
Jackson Games. Hell, this whole thread started because of a story in Pyramid!

The keys to their success:

Every day a paragraph or 2 is put up with the latest news about them,
gaming in general, or other cools stuff.

They update other pages regularly.

Pyramid. Updated every friday with at leats 2 or 3 articles. Searchable
back issues.

Playtest files available online.

Recently put up a page with projects they would like submissions for. These
are projects that they want to publish, if they get a good proposal.

News about upcoming projects, updated regularly along with actual shipping
dates.

Online resources such as sheets, errata and freebies like GURPS Lite.

LInks to LOTS of other resources, such as the GURPS Ring.

If FASA could start to do 1 or 2 of these things, it wold greatly improve
their presence. And I can't see it taking up that much time, all of their
Pyramid stuff is submissions. I'm sure that a lot of people here would pay
10 pucks for a Shadowland account if they could provide the same amount of
stuuf that Pyramid does. They even said that with the subscriptions its at
least breaking even, maybe making a small profit. Good for a small web
based project like that.

Just my small bit o' change.

Sommers
Homepage comming soon!

From:	Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:52:07 -0400

Message no. 15 On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Chris wrote:

->Dave Buehrer
->> News from the Illuminati:
->>
->> FASA Corporation, publishers of the Battletech miniatures game and the
->> Shadowrun RPG, this weekend purchased Ral Partha Miniatures, manufacturers
->> of historical, fantasy, and science-fiction metal figures, including
->> several licensed lines based on FASA games.
->>
->
->[Snip other stuff]
->
-> I thought FASA was going through some hard times. That's why they got rid
->of the Earthdawn line. But here they are buying other companies...Anyone
->have the real story on FASA? How are they doing? How do they rank versus
->other RPG companies? Just wondering...

Actually, from the looks of things they're diversifying, which is
a standard defensive tactic. Rather than show weakness, they show
strength kind of mentality. In addition, many people collect figurines
who do not play RPGs, so it would help with overall profits should the RPG
side take a downturn.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?

From:	Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:02:12 -0400

Message no. 16 At 02:59 PM 9/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>At 02:39 PM 9/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>Carniverse! Cool name! Why can't FASA even release tiny scraps of
>>information like this?

I thought they had. It is a part of their website for a week or two now.

>This is an issue of marketing. Where's the hype?

It's too early to get the hype machine really rolling for Carniverse. This
is a game scheduled for spring remember.

>Normally, I'm usually having to keep close tabs on what's going on, or I
>miss big things completely. So what about the gamers who don't subscribe
>to e-lists? What about the players who can't visit fasa's website on a
>regular basis?
>
>They don't buy, that's what!

Incorrect. They *do* buy, albiet later than us freaks and fanatics. I can
remember, in the old days, simply checking in with my gaming store to see
if anything new had arrived and being pleasantly suprised when there was
something new.

>>Instead of just complaining, this is what I'd like:
>>1) regular updates (once a week would do, more would be better)

This would be nice.

>>2) current release schedule - if a game delivery slips even one day,
>>I'd like to know about it

Agreed to a point. A day, so what. Plus, it'll take longer for some
outlets to recieve their shipments.

>>3) GET THE ERRATA ONLINE! We've only been waiting how many months?

This I don't understand (why FASA's been dragging their feet that is).
Okay, they wanted to make sure the Rigger 2 stuff jived with SR3. And a
version of SR3 errata was posted here last week; why can't that be posted
to their website too?

>>4) useful stuff (online character sheets, NPCs, maps, mini-adventures,
>>stocks, newspaper headlines)

This, honestly, is something that *we* should do. No, seriously. There
isn't a Shadowrun magazine anymore. Let Mike M. have rigid approval and
editing say over the submissions and then *post* them to a special section
of the website. "Here's some stuff that's not official, but we like it and
it won't break your game."

>>5) cool stuff (wallpaper, links, etc)

This would be cool too.

Yes, FASA and especially it's website are in need of improvement. I
disagree with the vehemence being displayed, but hey, whatever.

Erik J.

http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World

From:	K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:09:11 EDT

Message no. 17 In a message dated 9/30/1998 12:21:12 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG writes:

>
> FASA is developing a new miniatures game to be released in the spring.
>
> -Pyramid

OH Yeah, Come on Crimson Skies!!!!!!!!!!!

-K

From:	Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:37:33 +0200

Message no. 18 And so it came to happen that Shaun Gilroy wrote:

----------

<mucho sniped>
> I visit FASA's site at least twice a week in hopes of seeing something
new
> or seeing if the release schedule has been revised. Usually, I'm wasting
> my time.
> </rant more!>

Funny, I was informed that I should look "next week" for new "stuff"
for
the 3rd. That was 12 days ago from now on, so far as I no nothing has
changed.
Wonder what they do around there. Probably Errata the Erratas <g>.

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.

From:	Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:10:42 +1000

Message no. 19 Fixer writes:
> Actually, from the looks of things they're diversifying, which is
> a standard defensive tactic. Rather than show weakness, they show
> strength kind of mentality. In addition, many people collect figurines
> who do not play RPGs, so it would help with overall profits should the RPG
> side take a downturn.

Yep... a moderately standard tactic for a company that is looking at a rocky
patch ahead, but isn't _too_ badly off yet, is to look at acquiring assets
which will help their bottom line. FASA is putting out the miniatures game
in the not-too-distant future, and they will need a miniature manufacture to
produce the figurines for them. One way to ensure this happens is to own the
company, especially a fairly big name like Ral Patha.

And letting divisions go is not a sign of a company in poor health.
Actually, letting a division that isn't making money for them go is usually
the sign of a company with (*shock*) sensible management. (And just because
someone else can make the division profitable doesn't mean that it was a bad
decision). You know a company is in serious trouble when divisions that make
money are let go.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com

From:	Tim Serpas <wretch@**.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:30:17 -0500

Message no. 20 On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
> Well, DP9 is healthy

Yet they axed Jovian Chronlicle, IIRC.

> R. Talsorian is in questionable shape

I remember reading (probably in the Daily Illuminator
http://www.sjgames.com/ill) the the head honcho
of R. Talsorian slowed things down intentionally
since quality was slipping due to the push for
monthly releases and also that it just wasn't fun
anymore. And that was what gaming was about to him.

Sounds good to me.

Wretch

From:	Sean Matheis <sean@****.NET>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:35:21 -0700

Message no. 21 On 30 Sep 98, at 18:30, Ryo-ohki observed Tim Serpas saying:

> On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
> > R. Talsorian is in questionable shape
>
> I remember reading (probably in the Daily Illuminator
> http://www.sjgames.com/ill) the the head honcho
> of R. Talsorian slowed things down intentionally
> since quality was slipping due to the push for
> monthly releases and also that it just wasn't fun
> anymore. And that was what gaming was about to him.

R.Tal is one person right now, Mike Pondsmith. From what I've
seen/heard, he was suffering major burnout, and decided to make
it a part-time venture until he was ready to continue.

The company I'd watch for in the near future to have some problems
is SJG. I've also heard WW just purged a bunch of ppl too.

-Sean

From:	Matt T Ork <steelclaw@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:30:11 -0400

Message no. 22 On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:10:47 -0400 Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
writes:
>I'd have to say that the company with the best presence on the web is
Steve
>Jackson Games. Hell, this whole thread started because of a story in
Pyramid!

If I may pitch in a couple of nuyen, I've got to say I'm very impressed
with Pinnacle Entertainment Group's (Deadlands, Hell on Earth, etc)
website. From what I can tell, it's updated regularly (more or less) and
has just a lot of cool stuff on it. They even put player-created stuff
on their web page! Wallpaper, character sheets, just the sort of thing
someone else mentioned FASA should do. They could take one or two hints
from Pinnacle, in my opinion.

-Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
***********************************
"Play Deadlands? Whut th' hell kinda question's zat, stranger? We don't
cotten t'those kinda question's in these here parts..."

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

From:	Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:06:25 EDT

Message no. 23 In a message dated 9/30/98 2:40:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
laughingman@*******.DE writes:

>
> Funny, I was informed that I should look "next week" for new
"stuff" for
> the 3rd. That was 12 days ago from now on, so far as I no nothing has
> changed.
> Wonder what they do around there. Probably Errata the Erratas <g>.
>
Right after Lou Prosperi was let go, we on AOL were told there would be an
official statement on the web-site the next week. Two weeks later, we asked
again and were told again that it would be up the following week. We have not
asked since, though.
I had heard (maybe on the list even) that part of ED's demise (or transfer
should it ever actually happen) was based on the distributors, they would only
carry a certain amount of stuff.

As for WW, they have cut a few people from Changeling, but apparently are
just going to go to a "cheaper" proccess to print the "less-popular"
games
they make. <shrug>

From:	Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:16:45 +1000

Message no. 24 On Shadowrun Discussion, Michael vanHulst[SMTP:Schizi@***.COM] wrote:
> As for WW, they have cut a few people from Changeling, but
apparently are
> just going to go to a "cheaper" proccess to print the
"less-popular"
games
> they make. <shrug>

Chances are this will be Lightning Press, who I have just heard are
looking at an 8.5"x11" format. They specialise in small print runs (like
25 copies at a time). This means a game publisher doesn't need to print
thousands of copies of a book to make it worth their while.
Also, because of the way LP works, the books don't go out of
print EVER. They keep an electronic version in a database and just
reprint it when the publisher orders it.

If we can only convince FASA to convert all of the old sourcebooks....

cheers
Geoff
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - TOWER Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165

"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"

From:	Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:29:04 EDT

Message no. 25 In a message dated 9/30/98 6:18:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU writes:

> Chances are this will be Lightning Press, who I have just heard are
> looking at an 8.5"x11" format. They specialise in small print runs (like
> 25 copies at a time). This means a game publisher doesn't need to print
> thousands of copies of a book to make it worth their while.
> Also, because of the way LP works, the books don't go out of
> print EVER. They keep an electronic version in a database and just
> reprint it when the publisher orders it.
>
> If we can only convince FASA to convert all of the old sourcebooks....
>
I do not remember any of the (few) details that were given, so I cannot judge.
But wouldn't that be a more expensive print-run (per-copy) anyway? Even if you
print less, you would still need to raise prices to make money.

From:	Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:38:59 +1000

Message no. 26 On Shadowrun Discussion, Michael vanHulst[SMTP:Schizi@***.COM] wrote:
> In a message dated 9/30/98 6:18:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU writes:
>
> > Chances are this will be Lightning Press, who I have just heard are
> > looking at an 8.5"x11" format. They specialise in small print runs
(like
> > 25 copies at a time). This means a game publisher doesn't need to
print
> > thousands of copies of a book to make it worth their while.
> > Also, because of the way LP works, the books don't go out
of
> > print EVER. They keep an electronic version in a database and just
> > reprint it when the publisher orders it.
> >
> > If we can only convince FASA to convert all of the old
sourcebooks....
> >
> I do not remember any of the (few) details that were given, so I
cannot judge.
> But wouldn't that be a more expensive print-run (per-copy) anyway?
Even if you
> print less, you would still need to raise prices to make money.

Umm, I'm really not sure about costings. I do know that Dynasty
Presentations used LP to reprint Dark Conspiracy recently and they
didn't change the prices they were going to charge (much - the Referee's
guide went from US$20 to $US25, but it IS a 6"x9" 462 page book).

From what I have heard, a LOT of game publishers are seriously looking
at LP because of economics. Apparently, just about all the game
publishers at Gencon where talking about LP and the possibilities. Even
Steve Jackson of SJG is looking at using LP once they provide an
8.5"x11" format.

In a recent chat session, Lester Smith, the author of DC explained a few
things about the RPG publishing industry. Unfortunately, I can't get to
the transcript to quote the relevant sections right now. I can post the
URL if people would like to read Lester's view on why LP makes sense to
the RPG industry.

cheers
Geoff

--
Geoff Skellams R&D - TOWER Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165

"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"

From:	Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:43:21 +1000

Message no. 27 Michael vanHulst writes:
> I do not remember any of the (few) details that were given, so I
> cannot judge.
> But wouldn't that be a more expensive print-run (per-copy)
> anyway? Even if you
> print less, you would still need to raise prices to make money.

The economies of scale in printing occur because you don't have to set up
print runs as often, allowing the printer to offer volume discounts.

Lightning Press, as I understand it, set up and control their print runs
totally electronically. The only overhead is in the intial set-up, which is
then stored, and this enables them to be very competitive at printing the
low-volume, high-frequency orders. This in turn is good for a publisher
after the inital rush of orders, as it allows them to still have stock (or,
at least, have low availability times) of older books, while not forcing
them to invest in huge quantites of warehouse space.

It's probably a bit more expensive to do it this way, but not incredibly so.
And as sales from older books aren't a high source of revenue currently,
bumping up the prices slightly if necessary would be acceptable. And the
sales model would probably be that the books would not be stocked by
retailers (after all, they've got limited warehouse space, too), but be
available by catalog order. Keeping 20 or 30 copies of a book in stock on
the off-chance of mail orders wouldn't be a huge investment, and would
probably generate a lot of repeat business for the company.

OTH, it might cut into that other great revenue source for publishing
companies... new editions. :) (That's why FASA decided to have a third
edition of SR, wasn't it? ;)

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com

From:	Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:44:27 -0600

Message no. 28 At 18:30 9/30/98 -0500, Tim Serpas wrote:

>> R. Talsorian is in questionable shape
>
>I remember reading (probably in the Daily Illuminator
>http://www.sjgames.com/ill) the the head honcho
>of R. Talsorian slowed things down intentionally
>since quality was slipping due to the push for
>monthly releases and also that it just wasn't fun
>anymore. And that was what gaming was about to him.

From what I've heard, it's alot worse than that. R. Talsorian is back to
being run out of Mike Pondsmiths house again, and they have few to no full
time employees anymore (I assume they just have the necessary people do
things such as layout/graphics design/etc on a contract basis), and I seem
to recall the main CP2020 rulebook being recently reprinted -- which is odd
because the new version of it was due sometime around now.

Almost everyone in the industry is hurting right now -- at least, the ones
that rely mostly on RPGs to stay afloat. FASA moving into other markets is
IMO an attempt to stay, well, diverse :)

<Insert usual gripe about FASAs web page being rarely updated>

-Adam J

From:	Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:13:58 -0700

Message no. 29 :Lightning Press, as I understand it, set up and control their print runs
:totally electronically. The only overhead is in the intial set-up, which
is
:then stored, and this enables them to be very competitive at printing the
:low-volume, high-frequency orders. This in turn is good for a publisher
:after the inital rush of orders, as it allows them to still have stock
(or,
:at least, have low availability times) of older books, while not forcing
:them to invest in huge quantites of warehouse space.

In effect, it allows small publishing comapnies to utilise "just in
time" production, which reduces money tied up in inventory. The benfit to
RPG comapanies of greater liquidity should be quite obvious to us all.
(Hint- they can pay somebody to put already written material on thier
webpage).

:OTH, it might cut into that other great revenue source for publishing
:companies... new editions. :) (That's why FASA decided to have a third
:edition of SR, wasn't it? ;)
:

On the contrary, since there would not be a huge commitment to keeping
and selling an inventory, new editions could be produced more often- the
only "old books" to worry about would be the ones on the game store
shelves.
Essentially, it allows a publisher of books to operate as if they were
a (non-internet) publisher of software, or like a magazine publisher
(magazines do re-prints sometimes to keep up back-issue stock); because
production is not locked to a "lot size", updates can be more frequent (if
the cost of such an updating is not to high). SR3 v1.02, anybody?
Would FASA do this? I dunno, and I'm not sure they are into
publishing tech enough to consider it. But the benefits are pretty clear.

Mongoose- again, operating from home-spun wisdom, not an MBA.

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:13:08 +0200

Message no. 30 According to Erik Jameson, at 16:02 on 30 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> >>4) useful stuff (online character sheets, NPCs, maps, mini-adventures,
> >>stocks, newspaper headlines)
>
> This, honestly, is something that *we* should do. No, seriously. There
> isn't a Shadowrun magazine anymore. Let Mike M. have rigid approval and
> editing say over the submissions and then *post* them to a special section
> of the website. "Here's some stuff that's not official, but we like it and
> it won't break your game."

Oh yeah, and when someone suggests an idea like this, it gets shot down
for being "too much like TSS"... :)

Honestly, I would love to do an SR magazine (hardcopy if possible,
softcopy if need be), but then one that has usable info, little fiction,
and above all looks good. In short, many of the things that Shadowland was
not (apologies to the editing staff of Shadowland, but not to the people
who submitted lame articles and the abundance of fiction).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Nobody's going to murder anyone here even if it means I have to
kill someone!" --Kane, detective/rigger
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:13:07 +0200

Message no. 31 According to Ojaste,James [NCR], at 14:39 on 30 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> Carniverse! Cool name! Why can't FASA even release tiny scraps of
> information like this? IMO, that's FASA's biggest failing - I don't
> have time to go traveling from convention to convention so I get all
> my gaming news/info off the internet and FASA's internet presence
> is just barely present.
>
> Instead of just complaining, this is what I'd like:
[snip list]

This looks like it's essentially the same thing I was talking about maybe
3 months ago, and IMO David Buehrer's reply still makes sense: to us, the
internet is something we deal with everyday. It takes a central or near-
central place in our daily lives -- for example, unless I have something
really important to do, I check my mail every morning right after eating
breakfast. To FASA's employees, however, the internet is something that
happens somewhere out on the edge of what they do. They use it when they
need it, but that's about it. That's why they don't update their web page
a lot, respond to our emails as fast as we'd like them, or bring out "cool
stuff" on the net.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Nobody's going to murder anyone here even if it means I have to
kill someone!" --Kane, detective/rigger
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 07:51:42 -0400

Message no. 32 On Thu, 1 Oct 1998, Robert Watkins wrote:

->Fixer writes:
->> Actually, from the looks of things they're diversifying, which is
->> a standard defensive tactic. Rather than show weakness, they show
->> strength kind of mentality. In addition, many people collect figurines
->> who do not play RPGs, so it would help with overall profits should the RPG
->> side take a downturn.
->
->Yep... a moderately standard tactic for a company that is looking at a rocky
->patch ahead, but isn't _too_ badly off yet, is to look at acquiring assets
->which will help their bottom line. FASA is putting out the miniatures game
->in the not-too-distant future, and they will need a miniature manufacture to
->produce the figurines for them. One way to ensure this happens is to own the
->company, especially a fairly big name like Ral Patha.

I didn't know about the miniatures game. Read about it later but
it simply makes the move make more sense.

->And letting divisions go is not a sign of a company in poor health.

I didn't say it was. Sometimes it's just plain sense.

->Actually, letting a division that isn't making money for them go is usually
->the sign of a company with (*shock*) sensible management. (And just because
->someone else can make the division profitable doesn't mean that it was a bad
->decision). You know a company is in serious trouble when divisions that make
->money are let go.

Agreement. We're starting OT, though, I think this thread had
become as informative as it's going to get.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?

From:	Iridios <iridios@*********.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:31:53 -0400

Message no. 33 Gurth wrote:

> This looks like it's essentially the same thing I was talking about maybe
> 3 months ago, and IMO David Buehrer's reply still makes sense: to us, the
> internet is something we deal with everyday. It takes a central or near-
> central place in our daily lives -- for example, unless I have something
> really important to do, I check my mail every morning right after eating
> breakfast. To FASA's employees, however, the internet is something that
> happens somewhere out on the edge of what they do. They use it when they
> need it, but that's about it. That's why they don't update their web page
> a lot, respond to our emails as fast as we'd like them, or bring out "cool
> stuff" on the net.

And that should be why they actively look for someone like us to work
their website even if it is only on a part-time or freelance basis.
If they find someone who is a FASAnatic and fairly competent at
webdesign, their web presence would mostly likely surge from
practically nothing to among the best of the RPG publishers on the
net. This is of course only one beings opinion.

And if I have to choose between a FASA on the internet or FASA books,
I'll take the books. :)

--
Iridios
iridios@*********.com
ICQ UIN:6629224
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9489

-------Begin Geek Code Block------
GS d-(++) s+: a- C++ U?@>++ P L E?
W++ N o-- K- w(---) O? M-- V? PS+@
PE Y+ !PGP>++ t++@ 5+ X++@ R++@ tv
b+ DI++ !D G e+@>++++ h--- r+++ y+++
-------End Geek Code Block--------

From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 07:33:22 -0600

Message no. 34 For the mere cost of a Thaum, Iridios wrote:
/
/ Gurth wrote:
/
/ > This looks like it's essentially the same thing I was talking about maybe
/ > 3 months ago, and IMO David Buehrer's reply still makes sense: to us, the
/ > internet is something we deal with everyday. It takes a central or near-
/ > central place in our daily lives -- for example, unless I have something
/ > really important to do, I check my mail every morning right after eating
/ > breakfast. To FASA's employees, however, the internet is something that
/ > happens somewhere out on the edge of what they do. They use it when they
/ > need it, but that's about it. That's why they don't update their web page
/ > a lot, respond to our emails as fast as we'd like them, or bring out "cool
/ > stuff" on the net.
/
/ And that should be why they actively look for someone like us to work
/ their website even if it is only on a part-time or freelance basis.

Except, you gotta be at least something of a computer freak/geek to
think about hiring one. It appears that no one in the Shadowrun
department with the power to hire a web page designer fits the bill.
Not that there's anything wrong with that :)

I don't think things will change until that happens, or Mike converts.
...BTW, did anyone incubate Mike at Gencon?

/ If they find someone who is a FASAnatic and fairly competent at
/ webdesign, their web presence would mostly likely surge from
/ practically nothing to among the best of the RPG publishers on the
/ net. This is of course only one beings opinion.

As soon as I get my web page design certificate I'll start pestering them
to hire me :) Course, that'll be in about a year...

/ And if I have to choose between a FASA on the internet or FASA books,
/ I'll take the books. :)

Definitely.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm

From:	"M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:48:16 EDT

Message no. 35 In a message dated 10/1/98 9:33:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG writes:

> It appears that no one in the Shadowrun
> department with the power to hire a web page designer fits the bill.
> Not that there's anything wrong with that :)

I had thought that FASA had hired a HTML Designer to update their page and
they were just waiting on all the new stuff to be ready to be put on the page.

Has anyone else heard this?

-Bandit

From:	"M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:54:31 EDT

Message no. 36 In a message dated 9/30/98 9:09:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Schizi@***.COM
writes:

> As for WW, they have cut a few people from Changeling, but apparently are
> just going to go to a "cheaper" proccess to print the
"less-popular" games
> they make. <shrug>

WW is actually looking at hiring a full time make up artist to go to cons and
give thir LARP main characters and more vampirish look. If they have the money
to pay some one full time to do that, I wonder what the cut backs were for.

I can only speculate that they are dropping or cutting back one of their
games.

-Bandit

From:	Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:04:47 -0600

Message no. 37 At 09:48 10/1/98 -0400, M. Sean Martinez wrote:

>I had thought that FASA had hired a HTML Designer to update their page and
>they were just waiting on all the new stuff to be ready to be put on the
page.
>
>Has anyone else heard this?

FASA, AFAIK, has hired a local web design company to do their page, the
same company that does FASA Interactives page.

No clue if the slowdown is with FASA getting the documents to them, or them
getting the documents online, or even if that's the process they're using..

-Adam

From:	"Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:48:24 -0400

Message no. 38 Erik Jameson wrote:
> >>Carniverse! Cool name! Why can't FASA even release tiny scraps of
> >>information like this?
> I thought they had. It is a part of their website for a week or two now.
>
They've got "FASA's New Miniatures Game" plastered in several places,
but I've never seen the name before.

> >This is an issue of marketing. Where's the hype?
> It's too early to get the hype machine really rolling for Carniverse.
> This
> is a game scheduled for spring remember.
>
So? In the world of computer games, stuff is hyped that's still in
the planning stages! 2-3 years down the line (say, Quake?). I'm
perfectly willing to see some hype for a product due in 6 months. As
of now, here is what I know about the game: it's a miniatures game
named Carniverse and it uses d10s (I think I read that somewhere).

James Ojaste

From:	Kama <kama@*******.NET>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:54:25 -0400

Message no. 39 On Thu, 1 Oct 1998, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:

> Erik Jameson wrote:
> > >>Carniverse! Cool name! Why can't FASA even release tiny scraps of
> > >>information like this?
> > I thought they had. It is a part of their website for a week or two now.
> >
> They've got "FASA's New Miniatures Game" plastered in several places,
> but I've never seen the name before.
>
> > >This is an issue of marketing. Where's the hype?
> > It's too early to get the hype machine really rolling for Carniverse.
> > This
> > is a game scheduled for spring remember.
> >
> So? In the world of computer games, stuff is hyped that's still in
> the planning stages! 2-3 years down the line (say, Quake?). I'm
> perfectly willing to see some hype for a product due in 6 months. As
> of now, here is what I know about the game: it's a miniatures game
> named Carniverse and it uses d10s (I think I read that somewhere).
>

I believe that we also know that the minatures themselves are a little
larger than average and "really cool". I believe there was a previous
discussion on the list about how much FASA would have to charge for such
minatures and if they would be affordable for the average gamer.

- Kama

From:	"M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:22:17 EDT

Message no. 40 In a message dated 9/30/98 7:42:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
steelclaw@****.COM writes:

> If I may pitch in a couple of nuyen, I've got to say I'm very impressed
> with Pinnacle Entertainment Group's (Deadlands, Hell on Earth, etc)
> website.

They are also a great group to freelance for according to what I ahve been
told.

-Bandit

From:	"M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:26:36 EDT

Message no. 41 In a message dated 9/30/98 9:18:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU writes:

> Chances are this will be Lightning Press, who I have just heard are
> looking at an 8.5"x11" format. They specialise in small print runs (like
> 25 copies at a time). This means a game publisher doesn't need to print
> thousands of copies of a book to make it worth their while.

There is also the Mac Ocutech system, which can handle any sized print run (in
full color) and there is no change in cost. Everything is digital.

Take a look at the B5 RPG, I believe that was done with Ocutech. Downside is
that you have to use the magazine paper.

-Bandit

From:	"M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:29:55 EDT

Message no. 42 In a message dated 9/30/98 9:41:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU writes:

> In a recent chat session, Lester Smith, the author of DC explained a few
> things about the RPG publishing industry. Unfortunately, I can't get to
> the transcript to quote the relevant sections right now. I can post the
> URL if people would like to read Lester's view on why LP makes sense to
> the RPG industry.

I would be intreasted in seeing it.

-Bandit

From:	"M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:35:16 EDT

Message no. 43 In a message dated 10/1/98 12:00:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
adamj@*********.HTML.COM writes:

> From what I've heard, it's alot worse than that. R. Talsorian is back to
> being run out of Mike Pondsmiths house again, and they have few to no full
> time employees anymore

Yep that sounds about what I have heard, and I have the feeling that we will
be seeing a lot of that in the industry next year. Times are just bad all
over.

-Bandit

From:	Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:35:20 -0500

Message no. 44 From: M. Sean Martinez <ElBandit@***.COM>
Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 11:30 AM

>> In a recent chat session, Lester Smith, the author of DC explained a
>> few things about the RPG publishing industry. ... I can post the
>> URL if people would like to read Lester's view on why LP makes sense
>> to the RPG industry.
>
>I would be intreasted in seeing it.

As would I.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	"M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:53:07 EDT

Message no. 45 In a message dated 9/30/98 2:21:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

> I'd say that at the top of the heap is Wizards of the Coast (i.e. TSR), the
> folks from White Wolf and then FASA. None of them are likely to go under
> anytime soon, but they do also all have their share of problems.

That is not necesarrily true since WOTC is not doing as well as they should
be. The purchase of TSR was a good move since it provided them with a tax
shelter for the next 5 years (or is it 7?). However, the purchase of TSR also
sucked a lot of their working capitol up and magic is not selling like it used
to be.

If WOTC can continue to stay in buisness for the next two years (which they
should, unless they do something really rsiky and stupid) they will be around
for a long time. However this is the group that did pay $75 for customized
lightbulbs for their office and did think it was okay to buy out retailer's
shop locations when they would not sell the store to them.

Every company has its problems and time will tell who will be around after
2000.

-Bandit

From:	Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:54:45 -0400

Message no. 46 At 01:13 PM 10/1/98 +0200, you wrote:

>> This, honestly, is something that *we* should do. No, seriously. There
>> isn't a Shadowrun magazine anymore. Let Mike M. have rigid approval and
>> editing say over the submissions and then *post* them to a special section
>> of the website. "Here's some stuff that's not official, but we like it and
>> it won't break your game."
>
>Oh yeah, and when someone suggests an idea like this, it gets shot down
>for being "too much like TSS"... :)

Who cares? The FASA version wouldn't, strictly speaking, be a magazine
(upload new articles as they get final approval, instead of gathering
enough for an issue). And TSS would be able to be a lot freer and looser
with what gets published, whereas the FASA site would only be able to
publish what Mike M. decides fits with his general vision of SR.

And the initial launch version could consist of those Shadowland articles
that meet Mike M.'s approval. How many articles were published? A few
dozen or something? Cut that down to about 6 and you should end up with
some good articles to kick off that part of the site.

>Honestly, I would love to do an SR magazine (hardcopy if possible,
>softcopy if need be), but then one that has usable info, little fiction,
>and above all looks good.

Hardcover magazine? Never heard of that before. I don't see a big problem
with a story an issue, that's fine. Plenty of magazines include some sort
of fiction with the mix. But I do agree, it has to look *good.*
Regardless of print or electronic, the layout, the fonts and the artwork
have got to be solid.

>In short, many of the things that Shadowland was
>not (apologies to the editing staff of Shadowland, but not to the people
>who submitted lame articles and the abundance of fiction).

Hey, *I* submitted articles, as did Steve K...but there were some pretty
damn lame articles that were submitted, I'll give you that. And the
fiction was, in general, not really worth the time spent reading it...

Erik J.

http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World

From:	"M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:54:13 EDT

Message no. 47 In a message dated 9/30/98 1:31:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
chris_hayes@*******.COM writes:

> I thought FASA was going through some hard times. That's why they
got
> rid
> of the Earthdawn line. But here they are buying other companies...Anyone
> have the real story on FASA? How are they doing? How do they rank versus
> other RPG companies? Just wondering...

According to Comic Retailer Monthly, FASA products account for 3.10% of the
RPG market, .069% of the card games, 7% of Minitaure Gmes Starter Sets, and
27% of Minitaure game rules supplements.

I have no idea how they could afford to purchase Ral Partha since FASA unless
FASA interactive is doing really well for them. Supposedly Mech Commander sold
250,000 copies so that might be solution.

-Bandit

From:	"M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:57:59 EDT

Message no. 48 In a message dated 9/30/98 9:48:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
robert.watkins@******.COM writes:

> Lightning Press, as I understand it, set up and control their print runs
> totally electronically. The only overhead is in the intial set-up, which is
> then stored, and this enables them to be very competitive at printing the
> low-volume, high-frequency orders.

Distributors have been know to only order 6 copies of a game book for all
thier distribution branches. (That is 6 total, not 6 each) So I can understand
why this is very attractive to companies.

When I was over at Web Games they had 20 BOXES of they game books in the
garage. Each box held like 20-30 copies of a book. Course they did print runs
of 2,000 each.

A game book only needs to sell 1,000 copies to be considered a hit. Small
industry huh?

-Bandit

From:	"Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:06:15 -0400

Message no. 49 Erik Jameson wrote:
> >Honestly, I would love to do an SR magazine (hardcopy if possible,
> >softcopy if need be), but then one that has usable info, little fiction,
> >and above all looks good.
>
> Hardcover magazine? Never heard of that before. I don't see a big
> problem
>
Hard*copy*, not hard*cover*. I'd prefer softcopy, myself (paper's
much more of a pain to get from A to B, and you can always convert
softcopy to hardcopy if you want to).

> with a story an issue, that's fine. Plenty of magazines include some sort
> of fiction with the mix. But I do agree, it has to look *good.*
> Regardless of print or electronic, the layout, the fonts and the artwork
> have got to be solid.
>
I think that Pyramid does a pretty good job - they don't have the
most sophisticated HTML, but it does the job and they *do* have nice
art interspersed.

James Ojaste

From:	"M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: FASA News
Date:	Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:06:12 EDT

Message no. 50 Greetings!

Shadowland was far too expensive for the content, though I balme it on the
materials used. The paper was a heavier wight than the source books and the
cover was heavy card stock.

Now while it may last through whatever torture a gamer may put it through, the
overall quality of articles were not worth the money.

I think the last issue was the best as far as editing and presentation went.

Does anyone know what the actual laws are on creating a fanzine? Is it illegal
to do so?

-Bandit

Message no. 51 >
> Does anyone know what the actual laws are on creating a
> fanzine? Is it illegal
> to do so?
>

First let me state that I have no legal knowledge of the subject.

As far as creating a Fanzine, there are a lot of them out there for all
kinds of things. I don't think FASA would stop you from doing anything that
would promote their product, unless you did something that violated
copyright. I'm sure you could write to FASA marketing and ask them. They'd
probably even let you use some of the Shadowrun graphics on it as long as
you gave proper credit.

I think a Fanzine would be a great idea, you'd just have to make sure you
have enough content (depending on how often you release an issue).

-K-

Message no. 52 >In a message dated 9/30/98 1:31:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>chris_hayes@*******.COM writes:
>
>> I thought FASA was going through some hard times. That's why they
>got
>> rid
>> of the Earthdawn line. But here they are buying other companies...Anyone
>> have the real story on FASA? How are they doing? How do they rank versus
>> other RPG companies? Just wondering...
>
>According to Comic Retailer Monthly, FASA products account for 3.10% of the
>RPG market, .069% of the card games, 7% of Minitaure Gmes Starter Sets, and
>27% of Minitaure game rules supplements.
>
>I have no idea how they could afford to purchase Ral Partha since FASA unless
>FASA interactive is doing really well for them. Supposedly Mech Commander
>sold
>250,000 copies so that might be solution.
>
>-Bandit
>
How is this information presented? Does it give the information for all
companies in the respective fields or was it focused only on a few, and
where can I generally find a copy of this. Also does it give any info on
exactly how large in terms of money and volume these markets are? I would
be interested in seeing the breakdown.

Steve

Message no. 53 According to David Buehrer, at 7:33 on 1 Oct 98, the word on the street
was...

> I don't think things will change until that happens, or Mike converts.
> ...BTW, did anyone incubate Mike at Gencon?

Dvixen wanted us to take a picture of Mike being incubated, but I figured
he was too busy so I decided not to bother him with bOb (who went to
GenCon with me. Right, Keith? :)

I did get Jon and Steve, though, as well as the majority of the
ShadowRNners I ran into.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Nobody's going to murder anyone here even if it means I have to
kill someone!" --Kane, detective/rigger
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

Message no. 54 According to Erik Jameson, at 12:54 on 1 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> >Honestly, I would love to do an SR magazine (hardcopy if possible,
> >softcopy if need be), but then one that has usable info, little fiction,
> >and above all looks good.
>
> Hardcover magazine? Never heard of that before.

Hard_copy_, Erik. As in printed on actual paper and sent to whoever wants
it through snailmail. Whereas with softcopy I meant existing only as an
electronic document to be printed out by the person who chooses to
download it.

> I don't see a big problem with a story an issue, that's fine. Plenty of
> magazines include some sort of fiction with the mix.

I don't have a problem with fiction, I have a problem with too much
fiction. And 50% fiction is too much, IMnsHO.

> But I do agree, it has to look *good.* Regardless of print or
> electronic, the layout, the fonts and the artwork have got to be solid.

I've been striving for that for years. (I hope that when I get round to
uploading my new 3.63 MB PDF character sheet for SR, you'll agree it looks
good). I just want to apply it to something outside of the internet.

> >In short, many of the things that Shadowland was
> >not (apologies to the editing staff of Shadowland, but not to the people
> >who submitted lame articles and the abundance of fiction).
>
> Hey, *I* submitted articles, as did Steve K...but there were some pretty
> damn lame articles that were submitted, I'll give you that. And the
> fiction was, in general, not really worth the time spent reading it...

Erik, read again: I'm not knocking off _all_ the articles. It's the
articles and fiction that I found lame that I was talking about. Reading
an issue would be like this, half the time: "Oh wow, an article with
really big guns. Oh, a short story. Hey, another short story. A preview
for a FASA book I already own..."

(And yes, I know I submitted an article about guns, and it got printed.
However, I tried to give people options for existing guns, rather than
introduce a bunch of 11M heavy pistols to the game.)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Nobody's going to murder anyone here even if it means I have to
kill someone!" --Kane, detective/rigger
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

Message no. 55 David Buehrer wrote:

> For the mere cost of a Thaum, Iridios wrote:
> /
> / Gurth wrote:
> /
> / > This looks like it's essentially the same thing I was talking about maybe
> / > 3 months ago, and IMO David Buehrer's reply still makes sense: to us, the
> / > internet is something we deal with everyday. It takes a central or near-
> / > central place in our daily lives -- for example, unless I have something
> / > really important to do, I check my mail every morning right after eating
> / > breakfast. To FASA's employees, however, the internet is something that
> / > happens somewhere out on the edge of what they do. They use it when they
> / > need it, but that's about it. That's why they don't update their web page
> / > a lot, respond to our emails as fast as we'd like them, or bring out
"cool
> / > stuff" on the net.
> /
> / And that should be why they actively look for someone like us to work
> / their website even if it is only on a part-time or freelance basis.
>
> Except, you gotta be at least something of a computer freak/geek to
> think about hiring one. It appears that no one in the Shadowrun
> department with the power to hire a web page designer fits the bill.
> Not that there's anything wrong with that :)
>
> I don't think things will change until that happens, or Mike converts.
> ...BTW, did anyone incubate Mike at Gencon?
>
> / If they find someone who is a FASAnatic and fairly competent at
> / webdesign, their web presence would mostly likely surge from
> / practically nothing to among the best of the RPG publishers on the
> / net. This is of course only one beings opinion.
>
> As soon as I get my web page design certificate I'll start pestering them
> to hire me :) Course, that'll be in about a year...
>
> / And if I have to choose between a FASA on the internet or FASA books,
> / I'll take the books. :)
>
> Definitely.
>
> -David

Why don't we work on collaberating in web design now? I know frontpage and how to
use it to set up tables and blah blah blah... I can see what looks good and cool
and whatnot. But as far as creativity with the art and whatnot I am lacking.
Why don't we slap together a web page mockup for SR. Show it to the FASA folks
and let them run with it if they want to. Sides mr gonna get his licence. That
would look damn fine on your resume. :)

Grimlakin

Message no. 56 Gurth wrote:

> > I don't think things will change until that happens, or Mike converts.
> > ...BTW, did anyone incubate Mike at Gencon?
>
> Dvixen wanted us to take a picture of Mike being incubated, but I figured
> he was too busy so I decided not to bother him with bOb (who went to
> GenCon with me. Right, Keith? :)
>
> I did get Jon and Steve, though, as well as the majority of the
> ShadowRNners I ran into.

Luckily I was able to avoid your insipid incubation. You should have seen
it, I was surrounded but was able to escape.

Caric

Message no. 57 At 08:39 PM 10/1/98 +0200, you wrote:

>Hard_copy_, Erik. As in printed on actual paper and sent to whoever wants
>it through snailmail. Whereas with softcopy I meant existing only as an
>electronic document to be printed out by the person who chooses to
>download it.

I've not heard the term "softcopy" to have that definition. Okay,
whatever. Something new every day, eh?

>> But I do agree, it has to look *good.* Regardless of print or
>> electronic, the layout, the fonts and the artwork have got to be solid.
>
>I've been striving for that for years. (I hope that when I get round to
>uploading my new 3.63 MB PDF character sheet for SR, you'll agree it looks
>good). I just want to apply it to something outside of the internet.

Good layout is very, very hard to do.

>Erik, read again: I'm not knocking off _all_ the articles. It's the
>articles and fiction that I found lame that I was talking about. Reading
>an issue would be like this, half the time: "Oh wow, an article with
>really big guns. Oh, a short story. Hey, another short story. A preview
>for a FASA book I already own..."

Okay, I didn't catch you being specific. But you are pretty much right
though.

>(And yes, I know I submitted an article about guns, and it got printed.

That must mean that it sucked... ;-)

Gonna have to go over my collection and look for that article. Which issue
did you say it was in?

>However, I tried to give people options for existing guns, rather than
>introduce a bunch of 11M heavy pistols to the game.)

Which is probably why it sucked! ;-)

Erik J.

http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World

Message no. 58 On Thu, Oct 01, 1998 at 06:16:32PM -0400, Erik Jameson wrote:
> At 08:39 PM 10/1/98 +0200, you wrote:

Not to pick on you, Erik, since you're not the only person whose
mailer does this, but can people please check their attributions and make
sure they have names in them? :) 'You' isn't very helpful.

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4

Message no. 59 In a message dated 10/1/1998 9:06:59 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
adamj@*********.HTML.COM writes:

>
> FASA, AFAIK, has hired a local web design company to do their page, the
> same company that does FASA Interactives page.
>
> No clue if the slowdown is with FASA getting the documents to them, or them
> getting the documents online, or even if that's the process they're using..
>
> -Adam

Adam is correct that an outside company is now placing/constructing their
website for them. It used to be one of the ED writers (Lou???). but that has
all changed now.

As for the slow down, I have no information on that end of things.

-K

Message no. 60 > > FASA, AFAIK, has hired a local web design company to do their page, the
> > same company that does FASA Interactives page.
> >
> > No clue if the slowdown is with FASA getting the documents to them, or them
> > getting the documents online, or even if that's the process they're using..

The slowdown could be due to AOL (as I recall they use AOL as there
provider) and they are sloooooow.

Well the Interactive webpage is nice ... to bad they appear to have
spend all time designing that one instead of the main fasa site.

/Stefan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage .............................. http://hsl.home.ml.org ...
... HomePage ................... http://www.bugsoft.hik.se/sl11ls/ ...
... ICQ .................................................. 1403212 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 61 In a message dated 10/1/1998 1:40:19 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

>
> Dvixen wanted us to take a picture of Mike being incubated, but I figured
> he was too busy so I decided not to bother him with bOb (who went to
> GenCon with me. Right, Keith? :)

Uh, yeah, sure... :P Actualy, when I asked Gurth if he had gotten to Mike
yet, Gurth sounded almost skimpish to even try. I *knew* should have swiped
the official indoctrining SB from him and gotten him when I had the chance...
:P

> I did get Jon and Steve, though, as well as the majority of the
> ShadowRNners I ran into.

Ah yes, the entire group was getting spots in their eyes...from that damn
thing bouncing on our foreheads...

-K (who thought it was loads of laughs, and is already making plans concerning
next year)

Message no. 62 In a message dated 10/1/1998 2:38:56 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
caric@********.COM writes:

>
> Luckily I was able to avoid your insipid incubation. You should have seen
> it, I was surrounded but was able to escape.
>
> Caric
Oh yeah right, big thing. He was half asleep, lounging back in the chair in
Tim's room, hands behind his head until he saw that ball start bouncing
around.... ;P

-K

Message no. 63 > I had thought that FASA had hired a HTML Designer to update their page and
> they were just waiting on all the new stuff to be ready to be put on the page.
> Has anyone else heard this?
> -Bandit

FASA is planning to promote the Renraku book on their Web site. They'll be updating
www.fasa.com once all the material is ready. I just finished converting the cut sections
of the Renraku book to HTML for them, so the update will presumably happen fairly soon.

Dave
(hyatt@********.com)

Message no. 64 > From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>

> > Luckily I was able to avoid your insipid incubation. You should have
seen
> > it, I was surrounded but was able to escape.

> Oh yeah right, big thing. He was half asleep, lounging back in the chair
in
> Tim's room, hands behind his head until he saw that ball start bouncing
> around.... ;P

True, true. Luckily you we're all just as fried as I was or I would have
never made it out unsoiled. :)

Caric

Message no. 65 According to K in the Shadows, at 21:55 on 1 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> > Dvixen wanted us to take a picture of Mike being incubated, but I
figured
> > he was too busy so I decided not to bother him with bOb (who went to
> > GenCon with me. Right, Keith? :)
>
> Uh, yeah, sure... :P

I was talking about you trying to avoid bOb, but forgetting about the wall
behind you, which resulted in my once-in-a-lifetime successful throw :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Nobody's going to murder anyone here even if it means I have to
kill someone!" --Kane, detective/rigger
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

Message no. 66 According to Erik Jameson, at 18:16 on 1 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> I've not heard the term "softcopy" to have that definition. Okay,
> whatever. Something new every day, eh?

I _think_ I have, but it appears a logical extensive that if there's
hardcopy, there's also softcopy...

> Good layout is very, very hard to do.

Yeah, but even mediocre layout is better than a lot of the things you can
download off the net...

> >(And yes, I know I submitted an article about guns, and it got printed.
>
> That must mean that it sucked... ;-)

:P

> Gonna have to go over my collection and look for that article. Which issue
> did you say it was in?

I didn't :) But it's in issue #6, pages 48-52.

> >However, I tried to give people options for existing guns, rather than
> >introduce a bunch of 11M heavy pistols to the game.)
>
> Which is probably why it sucked! ;-)

Read it before you judge it, okay? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Nobody's going to murder anyone here even if it means I have to
kill someone!" --Kane, detective/rigger
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

Message no. 67 Gurth wrote:

> According to K in the Shadows, at 21:55 on 1 Oct 98, the word on the street was...
>
> > > Dvixen wanted us to take a picture of Mike being incubated, but I
> figured
> > > he was too busy so I decided not to bother him with bOb (who went to
> > > GenCon with me. Right, Keith? :)
> >
> > Uh, yeah, sure... :P
>
> I was talking about you trying to avoid bOb, but forgetting about the wall
> behind you, which resulted in my once-in-a-lifetime successful throw :)

I had forgotten about that. (Must have been the blow to the head).

:)

Caric

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