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Message no. 1
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 03:51:16 EDT
In a message dated 7/20/1998 7:23:41 PM US Eastern Standard Time, WiebkeT=
@** ONLINE.DE writes:

>
> *winces* Ahhhhh....pfffft...Don't SCARE me again like this!!! ;-)
>
> Ooops...that's much. We at least got warm (not "hot" according to Eric=
's
> definition;-) ) weather. Just the right temperature (But it mustn't ge=
t
> more...): 30°C. But feeling that it's hot doesn't just depend on t=
emperature
> but on humidity, too. If humidity is very low you high temperatures ar=
en't
> as
> bad as if humidity is very high...
>
Okay, I'll give Erik some credence there, Tuscon is -HOT- in the summer.=
Hell, anywhere in the Southwest that isn't on top of a mountain is hot=
there (which is the reason for the cabin above Prescott...AHHH).

anyway, In SR terms, how would one run *Extreme Heat* problems in SR with=
regards to armor? I am not sure how I would do this. The rules that =
are in the Aztlan Sourcebook for "los Humeros Grande" (don't have the b=
ook open, sorry, I'm lazy to reach the 3 feet for it) don't really incl=
ude the heat itself, but the combined heat/pollution/thin air problems.

Anyone have some suggestions?

-K
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:00:44 +0100
K is the Symbol said on 3:51/21 Jul 98,...

> anyway, In SR terms, how would one run *Extreme Heat* problems in SR with
> regards to armor? I am not sure how I would do this. The rules that are in
> the Aztlan Sourcebook for "los Humeros Grande" (don't have the book open,
> sorry, I'm lazy to reach the 3 feet for it) don't really include the heat
> itself, but the combined heat/pollution/thin air problems.

I make characters who insist on wearing body armor in hot
weather roll against Stun damage occasionally. I have no fixed
Damage Codes, but just let them roll and assign damage
depending on whether I like the roll or not.

However, if you want some rules, how about these:

Take the highest of the Ballistic and Impact ratings of each piece
of armor worn, and add up the values for all the armors worn.
This is the Target Number. The Damage Category depends on the
number of armors worn: one is L, two is M, three is S, and four or
more is D. Damage is Stun. Then roll a Body test against this
damage to resist it; Combat Pool and cyberware don't help.

For example, if Jack wears a lined coat and a real
leather jacket, the damage is 6M Stun. (The highest
rating of the lined coat is 4, and for the leather it's
2; 4+2=6. Two armors means Moderate Stun damage.)

Characters wearing a lot of normal clothing may add +1 to the
Power Level per set of clothes worn.

As to how often to check for heat damage, this depends on the
temperature:

Temperature Check
up to 20 degrees C never
up to 25 degrees C every 60 minutes
25 to 30 degrees C every 30 minutes
31 to 35 degrees C every 15 minutes
36+ degrees C every 5 minutes

An let's add in a new flaw for flavor...

LOW HEAT RESISTANCE
Value: 1 to 4
Characters with this flaw cannot deal with heat very well; they
must add the value of the flaw to the Power Level of any damage
taken from excessive heat.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sarcasm -- it's a great way to deal.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:49:57 EDT
In a message dated 7/21/1998 7:03:36 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

<snipped the rule concept>

Gurth, I gotta give ya credit, those were relatively nice and not
overbearing...thanks a bundle for the suggestions

> An let's add in a new flaw for flavor...
>
> LOW HEAT RESISTANCE
> Value: 1 to 4
> Characters with this flaw cannot deal with heat very well; they
> must add the value of the flaw to the Power Level of any damage
> taken from excessive heat.

Nice touch...

-K
Message no. 4
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:04:05 -0400
At 03:51 AM 7/21/98 EDT, you wrote:

>Okay, I'll give Erik some credence there, Tuscon is -HOT- in the summer.
> Hell, anywhere in the Southwest that isn't on top of a mountain is hot there
> (which is the reason for the cabin above Prescott...AHHH).

Even there it can get quite warm Keith. It does tend to be cooler, much as
Flagstaff does, but during the summer it's not that much cooler than Tucson
(which oddly enough, tend to be several inconsequential degrees cooler than
Phoenix metro).

>anyway, In SR terms, how would one run *Extreme Heat* problems in SR with
> regards to armor? I am not sure how I would do this. The rules that are in
> the Aztlan Sourcebook for "los Humeros Grande" (don't have the book open,
> sorry, I'm lazy to reach the 3 feet for it) don't really include the heat
> itself, but the combined heat/pollution/thin air problems.

I seem to recall something in Predator & Prey, I think in the Amazonian
adventure. I just ran it a about a month ago, but since my players got
smart real fast and didn't even bring armor, I didn't have to worry about
it much.

But I think it was a Body test, failure to get successes meant taking Stun
damage. Can't recall anything more though; sorry.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 5
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:28:13 EDT
In a message dated 98-07-21 03:52:15 EDT, you write:

> anyway, In SR terms, how would one run *Extreme Heat* problems in SR with
> regards to armor? I am not sure how I would do this. The rules that are
in
> the Aztlan Sourcebook for "los Humeros Grande" (don't have the book open,
> sorry, I'm lazy to reach the 3 feet for it) don't really include the heat
> itself, but the combined heat/pollution/thin air problems.

Well, living in Houston (the temprature has ben hitting 100/high 30's
recently) with about 80% humidity, I can tell you that anyone wearing military
armor that isn't internally cooled will likely die of heat stroke before
walking 5 blocks...

As for the internally cooled part, I think its likely. After all, Milspec
armor is designed for combat, when things are likely to get really hot inside,
even if you're fighting near the Artic circle... and internal cooling system
would be needed t keep your soldiers from dying of heatstroke...

Nexx
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:45:53 +0100
K is the Symbol said on 12:49/21 Jul 98,...

> <snipped the rule concept>
>
> Gurth, I gotta give ya credit, those were relatively nice and not
> overbearing...thanks a bundle for the suggestions

Thanks :) I really need to do a second edition of the house rule
book...

> > LOW HEAT RESISTANCE
>
> Nice touch...

How could I not add it if I have it at about level 3, maybe even 4
:(

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sarcasm -- it's a great way to deal.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:45:53 +0100
Nexx Many-Scars said on 13:28/21 Jul 98,...

> As for the internally cooled part, I think its likely. After all, Milspec
> armor is designed for combat, when things are likely to get really hot inside,
> even if you're fighting near the Artic circle... and internal cooling system
> would be needed t keep your soldiers from dying of heatstroke...

OTOH a cooling system has large drawbacks: if you use a heat
exchange system (like a refrigerator), you give off lots of heat in
addition to the extra weight and volume you're carrying. The
alternative is to draw in air from the outside to cool the inside of
the suit, but that is a bad idea if NBC weapons have been used...

(Making an inner and an outer suit, and forcing cooling air
between the two, will solve this problem, but only as long as the
inner suit isn't pierced by enemy fire or damaged through
carelessness on the user's part.)

Hmm... We have a dilemma here...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sarcasm -- it's a great way to deal.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:52:12 -0400
> > As for the internally cooled part, I think its likely. After all,
> Milspec
> > armor is designed for combat, when things are likely to get really
> hot inside,
> > even if you're fighting near the Artic circle... and internal
> cooling system
> > would be needed t keep your soldiers from dying of heatstroke...
>
> OTOH a cooling system has large drawbacks: if you use a heat
> exchange system (like a refrigerator), you give off lots of heat in
> addition to the extra weight and volume you're carrying. The
> alternative is to draw in air from the outside to cool the inside of
> the suit, but that is a bad idea if NBC weapons have been used...
>
> (Making an inner and an outer suit, and forcing cooling air
> between the two, will solve this problem, but only as long as the
> inner suit isn't pierced by enemy fire or damaged through
> carelessness on the user's part.)
>
> Hmm... We have a dilemma here...
>
Pump outside air in until the NBC hits then just let
them breathe compressed air.

The tank would be much lighter than a refrigeration
unit. The expanding air is cooled as it expands <babbles some physics
explanations>. Also just breathing cool air lowers the body temperature
as much or more than being in a cool room (consider how much of your
chest cavity is lung).
Message no. 9
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:26:39 EDT
In a message dated 7/21/1998 12:10:23 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
erikj@****.COM writes:

> >Okay, I'll give Erik some credence there, Tuscon is -HOT- in the summer.
> > Hell, anywhere in the Southwest that isn't on top of a mountain is hot
> there
> > (which is the reason for the cabin above Prescott...AHHH).
>
> Even there it can get quite warm Keith. It does tend to be cooler, much as
> Flagstaff does, but during the summer it's not that much cooler than Tucson
> (which oddly enough, tend to be several inconsequential degrees cooler than
> Phoenix metro).
>
Ah, but I said -above- Prescott, as in above the 6,000 ft mark (exact number I
will get from my mother this weekend). Nice and snuggled away in the Tonto
National Forest...about 3 kilometers (it's measured that way up there in
places) from Lynx Lake...

And yeah, I've noticed that stupid downtown Phoenix Metro temp is bad. I
remember back in high school doing the "fry the egg" thing in science class,
determining it's weight(mass), and the time it cooked to a specific
consistency and thus trying to reverse figure out exactly *How* hot that was.

It was fun, but it was frightening in the same time...

-K
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:14:59 +0100
bryan.covington@****.COM said on 15:52/21 Jul 98,...

> Pump outside air in until the NBC hits then just let
> them breathe compressed air.

I wasn't thinking aout the air the wearer breaths, but about an air
cooling system for the mil-spec armor suit. Some kind of self-
sealing suit would be handy for this.

An alternative is liquid-cooled, but I doubt anyone would want to
add an extra <however many> kilos for the fluid in the coolant
system plus a radiator...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sarcasm -- it's a great way to deal.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:25:07 -0400
At 06:26 PM 7/21/98 EDT, you wrote:

>> Even there it can get quite warm Keith. It does tend to be cooler,
much as
>> Flagstaff does, but during the summer it's not that much cooler than
Tucson
>> (which oddly enough, tend to be several inconsequential degrees cooler
than
>> Phoenix metro).
>>
>Ah, but I said -above- Prescott, as in above the 6,000 ft mark (exact
number I
>will get from my mother this weekend). Nice and snuggled away in the Tonto
>National Forest...about 3 kilometers (it's measured that way up there in
>places) from Lynx Lake...

Ah, okay. Should still get warm, but nowhere near what Phoenix or Tucson
will get.

>And yeah, I've noticed that stupid downtown Phoenix Metro temp is bad. I
>remember back in high school doing the "fry the egg" thing in science class,
>determining it's weight(mass), and the time it cooked to a specific
>consistency and thus trying to reverse figure out exactly *How* hot that was.

Heh. My dad told stories about that. I imagine it doesn't take an egg
terribly long to cook on asphalt in 110F degree temps, does it?

We're having a cooling trend here; highs in the mid-90s, with some Arizona
monsoonal flow; actually woke up to thunder on Monday. Some poor woman not
too far from where I live was struck by lighting that morning in West
Covina while in her kitchen.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 12
From: wafflemiesters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:45:55 -0500
>
> Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...) (K is the Symbol , Tue

> > LOW HEAT RESISTANCE
> > Value: 1 to 4
> > Characters with this flaw cannot deal with heat very well; they
> > must add the value of the flaw to the Power Level of any damage
> > taken from excessive heat.

That seems rather high for a flawthat aplies to a house-rule, although
an allergy would have a similar value (and effect). "EEEWWW- heat
rash!" (not to mention jock itch...). I can say from experience that
sweat / heat also inhibits the healing of deep wounds (or at least,
encourages infection).

"Summertime, and the livin' is easy" - chuyeah, right!

Mongoose
Message no. 13
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 02:57:37 EDT
In a message dated 7/22/1998 3:32:53 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
erikj@****.COM writes:

> Ah, but I said -above- Prescott, as in above the 6,000 ft mark (exact
> number I
> >will get from my mother this weekend). Nice and snuggled away in the
Tonto
> >National Forest...about 3 kilometers (it's measured that way up there in
> >places) from Lynx Lake...
>
> Ah, okay. Should still get warm, but nowhere near what Phoenix or Tucson
> will get.
>
Let's see, 112 in Tempe that one particular afternoon we went, and it was
-barely- a damp, wet, 71 at the cabin....

Strange too, wearing shorts and a t-shirt and changing temps like that in less
than 4 hours...

Elevation played havoc with my sinuses of course... ;/

-K
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:29:24 +0100
wafflemiesters said on 15:45/22 Jul 98,...

> > > LOW HEAT RESISTANCE
> > > Value: 1 to 4
> > > Characters with this flaw cannot deal with heat very well; they
> > > must add the value of the flaw to the Power Level of any damage
> > > taken from excessive heat.
>
> That seems rather high for a flawthat aplies to a house-rule

I don't quite see what it being a house rule has to do with it...
Also, if you think the cost or the modifier (it's not clear to me
which you meant) is too high, how would you suggest to adjust it?

> although
> an allergy would have a similar value (and effect). "EEEWWW- heat
> rash!" (not to mention jock itch...).

But in a different way. An "allergy" to heat would cause modifiers
to TNs, and cause wounds if the allergy is severe enough, but it
doesn't make a difference in how well you deal with the actual
heat. And that's what this flaw represents -- that you don't have
a fully-functioning cooling system, so it's more difficult to get rid
of excess heat.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sarcasm -- it's a great way to deal.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Feeling Warm Yet? (Re: It's too bloody hot...)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:24:59 -0300
At 03:51 21/07/98 EDT, you wrote:

>
>anyway, In SR terms, how would one run *Extreme Heat* problems in SR with
>regards to armor? I am not sure how I would do this. The rules that are in
>the Aztlan Sourcebook for "los Humeros Grande" (don't have the book open,
>sorry, I'm lazy to reach the 3 feet for it) don't really include the heat
>itself, but the combined heat/pollution/thin air problems.
>
>Anyone have some suggestions?
>
>-K
>

You could treat the characters without proper clothing as suffering from
a kind of allergy...
+ something to TNs, Stun Wounds if it's really hot, etc. If they're wearing
armor adapted to the heat
(or Hardsuits with internal life support :) ) this doesn't applies.

Bira

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